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How do you counter Cloak of Shadows?Follow
I have to admit. Those pesky Rogues suck for us Locks out there. However I am full Destruction spec and I usually kill them when it's one on one. How? Very very hard. But I do get them. Most of the time. It's because the Rogue is a nub Rogue and doesn't use his **** like he should. Whatever the case may be. Most of the time I get them down. First thing. When they stealth and I know roughly where they are. I use Perception since I am a Human Lock I have that extra up on Rogues. Once I hit that I can usually see them pretty good before they get within 5 yrds of me. If that is the case then I use this tatic. The Dot and Run tatic. I usually hit me Felhunter on them. With CoA, Immolate, Corruption. I usually get all three of on them. Since I am destruction spec and I do huge amounts of Burst DMG, I usually can burst them down before they stunlock me. CD, then Conflag, Shadowburn, Usually leaves them with about 20% health. Good ol' Searing pain usually eats the rest of them up. Since my Bonus DMG is up to 100% crit. And I have all fire and DMG rating up. If this doesn't end them. I still got a PoT and a HS for after the stun locks are up. I have a pretty high amount of Health since my gear is all Int, and Stam gear. I'm not saying I can kill rogues easily. I'm just saying that I usually do get them down before they kill me. Mabye it's my spec, mabye they just suck. Who knows. But believe me there are plenty of times when I never see the rogue until he's pissing on my dead corpse. As I lay there 2 seconds from the backstab to my spine. BTW, I have a 19 twink rogue. It's very fun to kill clothies before they even know you're there :)
The only time I have trouble with rog is when they are stunlock spec, even then I killed them 1/4 of the time. Not a great # but still give them a run for their money.
Vehem wrote:
When they stealth and I know roughly where they are. I use Perception since I am a Human Lock I have that extra up on Rogues. Once I hit that I can usually see them pretty good before they get within 5 yrds of me.
Thats a pretty good idea. To be honest i havent ever used that racial ability, and i think that if i can see them before they hit me, i can get a death coil off then follow it with a fear (whole time my succy is beating on him) then dot dot dot, burn, refear, or seduce, ect.
While im sure the rogue will use cos to get out of this i feel that if us locks can at least get in the first few hits we have a chance, our dots add up fast.
Ive also heard of people saying to use reign of fire to break the stealth, then fear them. Though if they see you do it and it doesnt hurt them they can Cos through it then stunlock u to death.
Have rank 1 rain of fire loaded on toolbar for this purpose - save mana.
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Thats a pretty good idea. To be honest i havent ever used that racial ability, and i think that if i can see them before they hit me, i can get a death coil off then follow it with a fear (whole time my succy is beating on him) then dot dot dot, burn, refear, or seduce, ect.
While im sure the rogue will use cos to get out of this i feel that if us locks can at least get in the first few hits we have a chance, our dots add up fast.
Ive also heard of people saying to use reign of fire to break the stealth, then fear them. Though if they see you do it and it doesnt hurt them they can Cos through it then stunlock u to death.
While im sure the rogue will use cos to get out of this i feel that if us locks can at least get in the first few hits we have a chance, our dots add up fast.
Ive also heard of people saying to use reign of fire to break the stealth, then fear them. Though if they see you do it and it doesnt hurt them they can Cos through it then stunlock u to death.
The idea is save your fear for after they burn CoS. Dont load up everything before it (all dots + fear), because your next fear/seduce will be 50% as effective, and you'll need that seduce when you're stunlocked.
Honestly I dont have a problem with rogues beating us. So what. They're the rock, we're the scissors. Rogues and arms/fury warriors are about the only classes who can smoke us pretty regularly, we smoke most of the other classes. We're still very strong in PVP, just choose your matchups. Rogues are best at killing casters 1 on 1, so dont get into that situation in the first place.
In a battleground for instance, find a warrior to run around with. Get a pally and the 3 of you should be almost unstoppable.
I've been using this new build for a few days now, and it works wonders for killing Rogues. They do still whoop my *** sometimes, but my ability to survive and use my spells wisely makes things so much easier. YES I killed alot of Rogues the past few nights. ALOT!!! And I didn't even have any Netherweave Nets.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IA0MVRbkoZbxhzIiz0xs
My playstyle:
1. Siphon life, siphon life, siphon life. 5x siphon life is 650 health every 3 seconds. I tank. I grab attention, throw siphon life everywhere, then pick a target and put corruption/curse on him and drain tank. I DO take the risk of getting pummeled/kicked, because it's worth it(I may re-think this, hehe). I find most warriors/rogues don't use their pummel/kick abilities while draining. Sometimes you will get it but I hardly ever do. Not to mention, draining life keeps you facing the target, which hurts a Rogue's playstyle quite a bit.
2. Curse, curse, curse. Fear, fear, fear. Debuffing and CCing are my second priority. I support my team with curses and CCs. Banish, fear, curse of exhaustion, whatever it takes.
Now, some people won't enjoy this build because they will miss the larger damage output of a full affliction/demo build, rather than a hybrid build. Guess what? My damage output went UP! In PvE, my damage would probably go down. But in PvP, I stay alive SO long that I end up doing massive damage.
The first 3 BGs I was in, I didn't look at the score board till the end because I wanted to just play the spec out without thinking about anything else.
I topped the killing blows, damage done, and healing done charts (healing done, obviously, I usually came after main healers.. but sometimes I came pretty close). On top of that, I have some of the lowest death counts. But due to my PvP tanking style, I do end up with 5-10 deaths sadly.
I always run in with felhunter. I get tons of resist, on top of Devour Magic (IMO, my favorite tool). And of course spell lock. But of course it's always useful to run with Succy if you want some extra help taking Rogues. Ever in trouble? Ok, pop Fel Dom and summon Void for a 4k shield (hence the points in imp void.. :( unfortunatly we can't use this in the Arena)
Unfortunatly, there's never anything to stop those utterly overpowered 3-4k ambush crits followed by a stunlock, but this build was able to take care of most of the Rogues I came across. And if I couldnt kill them, I was alive long enough for backup to arrive and rape that Rogue.
Edited, May 7th 2007 5:57pm by BuckeyesFTW
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IA0MVRbkoZbxhzIiz0xs
My playstyle:
1. Siphon life, siphon life, siphon life. 5x siphon life is 650 health every 3 seconds. I tank. I grab attention, throw siphon life everywhere, then pick a target and put corruption/curse on him and drain tank. I DO take the risk of getting pummeled/kicked, because it's worth it(I may re-think this, hehe). I find most warriors/rogues don't use their pummel/kick abilities while draining. Sometimes you will get it but I hardly ever do. Not to mention, draining life keeps you facing the target, which hurts a Rogue's playstyle quite a bit.
2. Curse, curse, curse. Fear, fear, fear. Debuffing and CCing are my second priority. I support my team with curses and CCs. Banish, fear, curse of exhaustion, whatever it takes.
Now, some people won't enjoy this build because they will miss the larger damage output of a full affliction/demo build, rather than a hybrid build. Guess what? My damage output went UP! In PvE, my damage would probably go down. But in PvP, I stay alive SO long that I end up doing massive damage.
The first 3 BGs I was in, I didn't look at the score board till the end because I wanted to just play the spec out without thinking about anything else.
I topped the killing blows, damage done, and healing done charts (healing done, obviously, I usually came after main healers.. but sometimes I came pretty close). On top of that, I have some of the lowest death counts. But due to my PvP tanking style, I do end up with 5-10 deaths sadly.
I always run in with felhunter. I get tons of resist, on top of Devour Magic (IMO, my favorite tool). And of course spell lock. But of course it's always useful to run with Succy if you want some extra help taking Rogues. Ever in trouble? Ok, pop Fel Dom and summon Void for a 4k shield (hence the points in imp void.. :( unfortunatly we can't use this in the Arena)
Unfortunatly, there's never anything to stop those utterly overpowered 3-4k ambush crits followed by a stunlock, but this build was able to take care of most of the Rogues I came across. And if I couldnt kill them, I was alive long enough for backup to arrive and rape that Rogue.
Edited, May 7th 2007 5:57pm by BuckeyesFTW
mikelolol wrote:
Rogues and arms/fury warriors are about the only classes who can smoke us pretty regularly, we smoke most of the other classes.
An Enhancement Shaman can make life miserable pretty fast too. Either he's wielding a big mace which almost causes Windfury to scream *DING DING WINNAR!* when it procs, or he's dual-wielding which is pretty much like fighting a Combat Rogue who has a 20% chance on hit to end the fight. To our loss.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Mazra wrote:
mikelolol wrote:
Rogues and arms/fury warriors are about the only classes who can smoke us pretty regularly, we smoke most of the other classes.
An Enhancement Shaman can make life miserable pretty fast too. Either he's wielding a big mace which almost causes Windfury to scream *DING DING WINNAR!* when it procs, or he's dual-wielding which is pretty much like fighting a Combat Rogue who has a 20% chance on hit to end the fight. To our loss.
Yup, Enhancement Shamans are basically Warriors without Intercept/Charge.
They are LOL with bad gear, but give them some epics and a some decent weapons and they can tear through anything in seconds. Elemental Shamans are almost as bad but I usually roll with the Felhunter anyway, so it's not as big of a deal. Just have to be careful with those damn totems.
Just thought I'd add a little to my post I left before. The basic breakdown of my strategy when fighting a rogue is two very key things. "First thing" is to try and get the jump on them first. Wheather it's throwing a CoA on them real fast before they stealth or if it's hitting perception on to see them before they stunlock. "Second thing" is to do as much DMG to them before they can do any to you. So to be completely honest Destruction usually is the best for Rogue fights. The only reason why I say this is because Destruction as high fast Burst DMG. Now don't get me wrong all other specs are good for Locks I'm just stating in my opinion and experience High and fast burst DMG helps a lot. Also try using Health stones and Heal potions, I usually use these back to back so I can stay in a match and take people down. Remember the more DoTs you throw on people and Rogues the more less likely they are unable to stealth or get the jump on you. Every little bit of DMG counts. I usually don't waste my mana or time on C of exhaustion, it's either CoElements for casters or CoA for anything else. Also for those Locks out there that are 48+. Don't ever ever feel like Soul Fire won't be needed in BG's. Yea it's a long cast time. But the DMG is outrageous. In fact it's a Fire spell right? Good! Since I am Destruction my DMG to Fire spells are higher and mort efficient. I'm lvl 48 atm, I can crit Soul fire for 1.8k most likely higher. Destruction is by far not the best spec. But it is a very effective build against rogues and even Fury spec warriors.
I dueled a Fury spec Warrior that was 6 lvls higher then me. We dueled 7 times, and I beat him 5 out of those 7 times. Yes he did use Berserker stance and used bloodfury. But I still was able to beat him. Usually because once I am able to hit Immolate on with CoA and Corruption. I usually don't have to hit any more casting time spells. Conflagerate which is an instant cast does high burst fire DMG, then Shadowburn, is an instant cast that does high shadow DMG. If he was still alive after those two huge hits then I can Searing pain him with the rest. Think about this. 3 DoTs on a person while a pet is attacking them, and then the huge burst DMG comes one right after the other...... It's just plain crazy. If anyone wants to hit me up for advice or anymore comments let me know. email is reefergod18@yahoo.com if you want to check out my build go to wow armory my alliance lock is Voridor Aerie Peak. Happy hunting!
Edited, May 7th 2007 7:44pm by Vehem
I dueled a Fury spec Warrior that was 6 lvls higher then me. We dueled 7 times, and I beat him 5 out of those 7 times. Yes he did use Berserker stance and used bloodfury. But I still was able to beat him. Usually because once I am able to hit Immolate on with CoA and Corruption. I usually don't have to hit any more casting time spells. Conflagerate which is an instant cast does high burst fire DMG, then Shadowburn, is an instant cast that does high shadow DMG. If he was still alive after those two huge hits then I can Searing pain him with the rest. Think about this. 3 DoTs on a person while a pet is attacking them, and then the huge burst DMG comes one right after the other...... It's just plain crazy. If anyone wants to hit me up for advice or anymore comments let me know. email is reefergod18@yahoo.com if you want to check out my build go to wow armory my alliance lock is Voridor Aerie Peak. Happy hunting!
Edited, May 7th 2007 7:44pm by Vehem
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So to be completely honest Destruction usually is the best for Rogue fights
1. Cast times, and long ones
2. **** poor survivability
What about destruction makes them better for putting out as much dmg as possible? If anything, Demo would be better because you'll have Felguard beating on them while your CC'd. Not to mention you actually have survivability.
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I usually don't waste my mana or time on C of exhaustion, it's either CoElements for casters or CoA for anything else
CoE!?
Waste your mana on CoEx??????
Never use CoT?????????
Come on man
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Also for those Locks out there that are 48+. Don't ever ever feel like Soul Fire won't be needed in BG's. Yea it's a long cast time. But the DMG is outrageous
My Shadowbolt does almost as much, yet in 2.5 seconds (or 3 if I'm in my PvP spec). Not to mention it costs a soul shard, which can run out quick in PvP when you don't have the time to drain soul much.
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In fact it's a Fire spell right? Good! Since I am Destruction my DMG to Fire spells are higher and mort efficient.
Shadow > Fire, especailly for PvP
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I'm lvl 48 atm, I can crit Soul fire for 1.8k most likely higher. Destruction is by far not the best spec. But it is a very effective build against rogues and even Fury spec warriors.
Most of our concerns are at 70, when Rogues have slick *** gear, CLoS, and 61 talent points.
BuckeyesFTW wrote:
Shadow > Fire, especailly for PvP
Once in a blue moon I run into a Mage with Improved Fire Ward. 20% chance to reflect fire spells.
Nothing more depressing than watching your Soul Fire come hurling back at you and before you think twice your Conflagrate also hits you. My Soul Fire crits for nearly 4,000.
Edit: Yeah, Rogues are 50/50 up until level 66 where they get Cloak of Shadows. After that it's more like 10/90, where the 10% is the random situation where a Warrior comes to the rescue.
Edited, May 8th 2007 3:32pm by Mazra
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
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