hi all,
Just wanted to hear what some of you thought about a few things. I'm currently a Lv24 Warrior and apart of a static group (24shaman, 24druid). We work well together & because we've been leveling off of instances from Lv19 I decided to main spec my toon to Prot.
This is where I'm at now (not much to see, lol) 8/0/7.
I do alot of group tanking even at this level. Rarely do I pull one at a time, 2-3 seems more effective and exciting. SO, the Imp. Thunderclap I noticed is just awesome! I have that along with mouseover macros for Taunt & Sunder in my mix. Plus the HS, Shouts, Revenge (which is always lit up), ect...
What I'm looking at now is... the lowest level I'll get Shield Slam is 48 & Devastate is 59. I'll still be running groups & instances constantly where multiple mob pulls will be common. What are your opinions about re-specing at Lv40 to get shield slam, then continue to get devastate asap? Or will I be too hooked on Thunderclap to pull my self away from the Arms tree >.> I know it's forever away and I have plenty of time to read up and/or think about it lol, but I'm to impatient to wait for knowledge =)
Plus... Imroved Revenge? haven't seen much about that, any good?
Also... Anger Management? worth the 3 more points in Arms to get down the road?
Thx everyone in advance!
Kz
Edited, May 4th 2007 12:05pm by Killzon
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The honest reply is no one needs to spec prot before maybe lvl 45 at the earliest. Prior to that, the mobs and bosses just don't deal the kind of damage that requires a bunch of points in the protection tree.
Go ahead and spec arms or fury. Use a shield and thunderclap and sunder when tanking, maybe keep some +stamina or +defense gear to switch into when in dungeons.
No real sense in needlessly hampering your leveling with a spec that isn't neccessary until later in the game.
Go ahead and spec arms or fury. Use a shield and thunderclap and sunder when tanking, maybe keep some +stamina or +defense gear to switch into when in dungeons.
No real sense in needlessly hampering your leveling with a spec that isn't neccessary until later in the game.
Quote:
Plus... Imroved Revenge? haven't seen much about that, any good?
Most bosses in higher lvl instances are immune to the stun part of revenge. I don't use it nor do I feel the need to. Its up to you, just try it out, like it or hate and respec.
like the others said it's up to you. warriors tanking can tank effectively with no spec. ie no talents added if you heve you have adequate skill and knowledge of your class. with your party setup you have the shaman for dps/healing, druid for dps/healing/offtank and you for tanking and maybe dps. figure out if you would like to make a dps group for blazing though your level quests quickly or a healer, tank, dps group for taking on quests which are perpetually red or orange. if it's no 1 take a few points in a dps tree
if it's no 2. take in the protection tree.
good luck and good hunting.
if it's no 2. take in the protection tree.
good luck and good hunting.
Most ppl have pointed it out. Here goes my version:
Tanking is 60% skill. For tanking in it's purpose you do not need prot. You may, however, need it for the sake of taking as low dmg as possible (thus letting your team mates focus more on dps:ing and less on healing you).
As for the spec, it's really good. And you're right in thinking Imp. TC is good. It's simply ace! On AM I say what I usually say: 1 point in Anger Management generates more rage than 5 points in Unbridled Wrath for players 1h:ing or 2h:ing. Imo it's VERY worth while.
Shield Slam and Devestate are more for end-game tanking. Meaning you won't need them earlier than you get them. And even when you get them it's arguable if you'll need them, but you'll still use them since they make tanking EZ-mode.
Imp. Revenge: Most low lvl mobs and bosses aren't immune to stun. The higher you get the more common it is for bosses to be immune, but trash? Rarely. So basicly what you're asking is "Is it worth 3 talent points to be able to stunlock opponents, making them stunned for 3 sec every 5 sec?" I'd say: Yes :)
If you've got Defiance all you need to do is pretty much TC and Revenge every CD to keep aggro. I'd advise you to go up to Defiance and LS (maybe Imp. Revenge if you like the idea) and then the rest in Arms. It's still up to you, but as I said: You don't NEED full prot. If you want to make it easy on yourself go hybrid.
Tanking is 60% skill. For tanking in it's purpose you do not need prot. You may, however, need it for the sake of taking as low dmg as possible (thus letting your team mates focus more on dps:ing and less on healing you).
As for the spec, it's really good. And you're right in thinking Imp. TC is good. It's simply ace! On AM I say what I usually say: 1 point in Anger Management generates more rage than 5 points in Unbridled Wrath for players 1h:ing or 2h:ing. Imo it's VERY worth while.
Shield Slam and Devestate are more for end-game tanking. Meaning you won't need them earlier than you get them. And even when you get them it's arguable if you'll need them, but you'll still use them since they make tanking EZ-mode.
Imp. Revenge: Most low lvl mobs and bosses aren't immune to stun. The higher you get the more common it is for bosses to be immune, but trash? Rarely. So basicly what you're asking is "Is it worth 3 talent points to be able to stunlock opponents, making them stunned for 3 sec every 5 sec?" I'd say: Yes :)
If you've got Defiance all you need to do is pretty much TC and Revenge every CD to keep aggro. I'd advise you to go up to Defiance and LS (maybe Imp. Revenge if you like the idea) and then the rest in Arms. It's still up to you, but as I said: You don't NEED full prot. If you want to make it easy on yourself go hybrid.
Thx for the input everyone!
I've toy'd with the idea of dropping prot all together, but looking at our play style I think it's best to keep it. It has probably saved our butt a few times, like when we took Bazil Thedd(sp) with his two buddies at Lv24 in the Stockades when I looked up to see my health bar I can honestly say it went from 90%->10%->90% over and over O.o
Now granted, The only real difference the prot tree made at that time was the extra rage from Improved Bloodrage, plus holding onto an extra 15 rage when changing stances for Overpower (Bazil dodged & Resisted almost everything I thru at him... or I'd miss, so Overpower & Taunt were my hate controls for him. TC & DS held the others). But now at Lv27 (8/0/10) it looks like the extra block% will help a lot.
As far as hurting my leveling, I kind of look at it the same as my Paladin. If you roll a Paladin, and play in a static party (a group that you never level exp without), and all you do are dungeons or orange/red/group quests. And in those times you are the main healer, specing Holy over Ret will help you heal. When the Ret tree is actually the fastest way to level for Paladin solo, no matter what level you are Holy is the best tree for healing. The same seems to go for Warrior...
...all I do is tank; every time I head out for exp I'm with the other two. The Druid is Feral, Shaman is Resto, and we really don't care what any fillers are if we fill the group, but my only real job is to reduce damage enough for the healer(sometimes druid) to keep-up & hold hate =). So I think I'm an exception as far as the Prot tree goes, but I'll be a Hybrid because the lower level talents of the Arms tree really do complement tanking!
summery; After reading more on the Warrior Forums and reading the responses here, I think it’s best to get Defiance, then Imp Shield Block & head back over to the Arms tree for AM. I guess it's a toss-up as to which I'll dump a few points into to get there... Imp HS, or Imp Charge since I really don't rely on either any more than the other (I don’t charge pull much & I dump rage on everything else before I might get "one" HS off). Then I'll fill in the Prot tree in this direction: 11/3/47.
Feed back if ya want =)
Thx!
I've toy'd with the idea of dropping prot all together, but looking at our play style I think it's best to keep it. It has probably saved our butt a few times, like when we took Bazil Thedd(sp) with his two buddies at Lv24 in the Stockades when I looked up to see my health bar I can honestly say it went from 90%->10%->90% over and over O.o
Now granted, The only real difference the prot tree made at that time was the extra rage from Improved Bloodrage, plus holding onto an extra 15 rage when changing stances for Overpower (Bazil dodged & Resisted almost everything I thru at him... or I'd miss, so Overpower & Taunt were my hate controls for him. TC & DS held the others). But now at Lv27 (8/0/10) it looks like the extra block% will help a lot.
As far as hurting my leveling, I kind of look at it the same as my Paladin. If you roll a Paladin, and play in a static party (a group that you never level exp without), and all you do are dungeons or orange/red/group quests. And in those times you are the main healer, specing Holy over Ret will help you heal. When the Ret tree is actually the fastest way to level for Paladin solo, no matter what level you are Holy is the best tree for healing. The same seems to go for Warrior...
...all I do is tank; every time I head out for exp I'm with the other two. The Druid is Feral, Shaman is Resto, and we really don't care what any fillers are if we fill the group, but my only real job is to reduce damage enough for the healer(sometimes druid) to keep-up & hold hate =). So I think I'm an exception as far as the Prot tree goes, but I'll be a Hybrid because the lower level talents of the Arms tree really do complement tanking!
summery; After reading more on the Warrior Forums and reading the responses here, I think it’s best to get Defiance, then Imp Shield Block & head back over to the Arms tree for AM. I guess it's a toss-up as to which I'll dump a few points into to get there... Imp HS, or Imp Charge since I really don't rely on either any more than the other (I don’t charge pull much & I dump rage on everything else before I might get "one" HS off). Then I'll fill in the Prot tree in this direction: 11/3/47.
Feed back if ya want =)
Thx!
Just a couple quick notes to add for you since you've decided to stay Prot
Shield Slam and Devestate are more for end-game tanking. Meaning you won't need them earlier than you get them. And even when you get them it's arguable if you'll need them
The key word here is NEED. Can you get by without them? Yes! IMHO Should you be a prot warrior in a level 70 instance without them? NO!
Shield slam is hands down the highest threat generating ability we have and Devastate is either the 2nd or 3rd depending on the number of sunders you have on the target.
In defensive stance, with full defiance, using a terrok's nightmace, these are the threat numbers my 70 warrior pulls down per hit. (These numbers factor in all damage done by my weapon/Shield except where noted for heroic strike)
Shield Slam 1200
Revenge 745
*Devastate 495
Sunder 450
Shield Bash 440
**Heroic Strike 435
Thunderclap 405
Melee 330
*Devastate varies based on the number of sunders you have up and its more my exp that I receive 8-900 threat when I have 5 sunders
**HS pulls down about 770 threat total, but it must piggy-back a normal hit. If this ability was not used, a normal strike would still occur. Therefore, the damage from a normal strike is subtracted from this attack to give an accurate value of the ability itself. IMHO HS is not a rage efficient threat generator and I seldom use it.
Most bosses in higher lvl instances are immune to the stun part of revenge.
This is true, but there are few boss mobs in an instance and many trash mobs. Revenge is the 2nd highest threat generating ability we have (see above) so I use it whenever it is available. The chance to stun the opponent and save myself hundreds or even thousands of damage is too good for me to pass up. I use it to mitigate damage not as a stunlock ability.
Quote:
Shield Slam and Devestate are more for end-game tanking. Meaning you won't need them earlier than you get them. And even when you get them it's arguable if you'll need them
The key word here is NEED. Can you get by without them? Yes! IMHO Should you be a prot warrior in a level 70 instance without them? NO!
Shield slam is hands down the highest threat generating ability we have and Devastate is either the 2nd or 3rd depending on the number of sunders you have on the target.
In defensive stance, with full defiance, using a terrok's nightmace, these are the threat numbers my 70 warrior pulls down per hit. (These numbers factor in all damage done by my weapon/Shield except where noted for heroic strike)
Shield Slam 1200
Revenge 745
*Devastate 495
Sunder 450
Shield Bash 440
**Heroic Strike 435
Thunderclap 405
Melee 330
*Devastate varies based on the number of sunders you have up and its more my exp that I receive 8-900 threat when I have 5 sunders
**HS pulls down about 770 threat total, but it must piggy-back a normal hit. If this ability was not used, a normal strike would still occur. Therefore, the damage from a normal strike is subtracted from this attack to give an accurate value of the ability itself. IMHO HS is not a rage efficient threat generator and I seldom use it.
Quote:
Most bosses in higher lvl instances are immune to the stun part of revenge.
This is true, but there are few boss mobs in an instance and many trash mobs. Revenge is the 2nd highest threat generating ability we have (see above) so I use it whenever it is available. The chance to stun the opponent and save myself hundreds or even thousands of damage is too good for me to pass up. I use it to mitigate damage not as a stunlock ability.
My advice would be to drop prot altogether and go Arms until at least getting Mortal Strike. To be honest, you don't need more than 15-17 points in prot at level 70, even if you are tanking heroic dungeons. I have tanked heroic Steamvaults, Slave Pens, Mana-Tombs, and OT'd in Karazhan with a 8/32-35/15-18 build just fine. The main thing tanking in these instances is hitting 490 defense and having close to 12k health unbuffed. As long as the group you are in knows how to manage their aggro, you will be fine. For anything in Azeroth, until the level 50 zones, you just need to know how to generate aggro with sunders, TC's, revenge, etc. At the level 50+ zones, it is very helpful to have Defiance to get that extra threat.
If you stay prot at your level, it will just gimp your DPS and if you ever solo at all (I would be surprised if you spend ALL your time in the group you have) you'll be ready to poke your eyes out because of how slowly the mobs go down.
Once you get to Outland, you could switch to prot, and it would make tanking easier, but everything else you do will be more difficult, and you can pretty much forget PvP if you want a break from instancing.
My advice would be to go Arms until MS and pick up Cruelty as well, and then start putting points into prot to get defiance. If you do go for a prot heavy build around level 50-60, make sure you max out improved thunderclap, and cruelty is still good to have. Imp Heroic Strike can be good also if you aren't taking a lot of damage and not generating a lot of rage. I know of a few people who leveled to 70 with a prot build, but to do so means you will have to instance a lot of your way there, and doing the kill-quests will be very slow since it will take you twice as long to kill a mob.
Once you get geared up at 70, try out a fury/prot build if you get some +hit items. That way you can either tank OR dps in an instance, which is a nice change of pace.
Edit: At your level also, just work on getting a tank set of gear, and a dps set of gear. Look for +def and stam/str or stam/agi on your tank stuff and +crit and stam/str str/agi gear for dps. I'm not going to list specific drops because you outlevel gear so fast it isn't worth doing so, but follow those basic guidelines, and you'll be fine.
Edited, May 10th 2007 5:12pm by Rimailkall
If you stay prot at your level, it will just gimp your DPS and if you ever solo at all (I would be surprised if you spend ALL your time in the group you have) you'll be ready to poke your eyes out because of how slowly the mobs go down.
Once you get to Outland, you could switch to prot, and it would make tanking easier, but everything else you do will be more difficult, and you can pretty much forget PvP if you want a break from instancing.
My advice would be to go Arms until MS and pick up Cruelty as well, and then start putting points into prot to get defiance. If you do go for a prot heavy build around level 50-60, make sure you max out improved thunderclap, and cruelty is still good to have. Imp Heroic Strike can be good also if you aren't taking a lot of damage and not generating a lot of rage. I know of a few people who leveled to 70 with a prot build, but to do so means you will have to instance a lot of your way there, and doing the kill-quests will be very slow since it will take you twice as long to kill a mob.
Once you get geared up at 70, try out a fury/prot build if you get some +hit items. That way you can either tank OR dps in an instance, which is a nice change of pace.
Edit: At your level also, just work on getting a tank set of gear, and a dps set of gear. Look for +def and stam/str or stam/agi on your tank stuff and +crit and stam/str str/agi gear for dps. I'm not going to list specific drops because you outlevel gear so fast it isn't worth doing so, but follow those basic guidelines, and you'll be fine.
Edited, May 10th 2007 5:12pm by Rimailkall
12 posts
Basically its up to you till you get to lvl 70, i mean tanking in any tree is done with no problems in most cases. Considering you dont pvp much if at all full prot is not a bad idea. Its a pretty good tree for leveling, far underrated. Whats good about it is you take very little dmg and if you have a good 1h for dps and a good shield block rating you dish out decent dmg just make sure you get the stat bonus and imp 1h for dmg. Also 5 for crit rating (cruelty) is a good bet. Besides that all the dmg mitagation, stuns etc are going to make lvling and hunting alot easier with way less risk of dieing solo, and your going to be very popular for instances, good way to start making a name for yourself as a good prot tank for raids later on 2. Only really musts in the other trees are like parry for def. and cruelty for crit which give you better threat and rage gen. Toy with 10 in fury for the imp demo shout, a very useful dmg mitigation tool, also makes solo hunting easy that with stuns (imp revenge) (C.B) and shield block you stand a good chance of not losing any health on single pulls. Ive done some great DPS with just Shield slam and devestate(5sunder) on pve. Imp TC is not really a must because its very situational and in alot of group setting using it alot is a good way to break CC.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=TVZVZ0EtsIMzsest
Imp revenge for stun. It goes off more than you would think, and the dmg mitigation is a most for prot warriors considering how much you use it anyways. Dont need to stance dance alot and you wont have a problem with rage with a good 1h and plenty of rage from blocks and just getting pounded on by everything. But with decent gear your getting huge amounts of def. and that +20def from ant. is enough make your parry dodge crit, block ratings really high. (500+ def.)With the BC trinks your looking at being able to dodge everything for like 10secs or gain around 5k health+ with last stand,cs and trinks.
Edited, May 10th 2007 8:34pm by scourgeed
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=TVZVZ0EtsIMzsest
Imp revenge for stun. It goes off more than you would think, and the dmg mitigation is a most for prot warriors considering how much you use it anyways. Dont need to stance dance alot and you wont have a problem with rage with a good 1h and plenty of rage from blocks and just getting pounded on by everything. But with decent gear your getting huge amounts of def. and that +20def from ant. is enough make your parry dodge crit, block ratings really high. (500+ def.)With the BC trinks your looking at being able to dodge everything for like 10secs or gain around 5k health+ with last stand,cs and trinks.
Edited, May 10th 2007 8:34pm by scourgeed
scourgeed wrote:
Imp TC is not really a must because its very situational and in alot of group setting using it alot is a good way to break CC.
Edited, May 10th 2007 8:34pm by scourgeed
Edited, May 10th 2007 8:34pm by scourgeed
I personally disagree with this, but to each his own. My reasoning is that Imp TC slows the mobs down an additional 10%, which is essentially 10% damage mitigation. This isn't so noticeable on trash, but on bosses or raid trash (Kara), it makes a big difference over the long term for your healers. It also causes more threat, and costs less rage. Yes, there are some cases when you can't use it because it will break CC, but other than that, it is practically a requirement for tanking (higher level anyway). Doing Shattered Halls pulls (5-6 mobs) without it would be extremely difficult since Imp TC is the main multi-mob aggro builder warriors have, with Demo Shout being the other. A lot of the times also, you can pull the group of active mobs away from the CC'd ones, so you can TC to your heart's content, without worrying about breaking CC. Depends on the instance and that particular pull though.
I think the bottomline is ... even if your group is a static group you are still hurting your group by going prot before necessary. You may think all those flashy tanking talents will make a real difference, but they honestly wont for a long time. You can choose to believe those of us who have done this before, or choose not to ... but it is pretty much a known fact that prot talents are mostly useless while levelling ... even in 5 man groups. Same goes for holy priests ... a shadowpriest can heal a 5 man, an arms warrior can tank a 5 man. End of story.
I think the bottomline is ... even if your group is a static group you are still hurting your group by going prot before necessary. You may think all those flashy tanking talents will make a real difference, but they honestly wont for a long time. You can choose to believe those of us who have done this before, or choose not to ... but it is pretty much a known fact that prot talents are mostly useless while levelling ... even in 5 man groups. Same goes for holy priests ... a shadowpriest can heal a 5 man, an arms warrior can tank a 5 man. The difficulty just isnt high enough in those instances to command the talents and thus going with more DPS oriented builds you will simply clear those instances faster. End of story.
You may enjoy the prot talents and feel cool about it and thats fine ... but dont try and sell us that they actually help you more than the other talents. They don't, not until you hit 70.
You may enjoy the prot talents and feel cool about it and thats fine ... but dont try and sell us that they actually help you more than the other talents. They don't, not until you hit 70.
12 posts
Tru dat, i didnt even go prot untill 70. I used it once as my first build then respeced at like 20ish fury & arms and never went back till 70. So i really couldnt say cause i really never compared till now. But at lvl 70 prot is kinda cool, nice change for sure. PVP is not really an option. Crits went down by 50% that kinda ruined it so all in all i guess fury arms is still better cause its versatile. You can still tank most instances and its a must for PVP. But for prot you pretty much need to invest 50 points into it to be a viable tank for raids and that pretty much puts you out of the market for pvp.... gay
23 posts
i suggest arms to start with a nice 2h. Prot is only good for end game instances 60+. Ive tanked many instances on my warrior with just fury spec and had done fine up to 60. Just keep throwing sunders,thunderclap, and anything that generates threat.
but feel free to do whatever you want. :)
but feel free to do whatever you want. :)
under appricaited job(just pointing that out give me one other class that a group can live without without having a few 70s run you somewhere). now on a more serious note take some of your quest money and respec total arms. you wont need anything in protection till your 60s unless you raid mc ubrs or naxx. get a nice 2h a shield and any appealing 1h you desire. then practice, practice,practice. stay in org run a group of noobs thru rfc and check how agro efficiant moves are if you can pull agro off a dps hungry anything(rogue lock hunter mage. if you can do that in arms in fury you are fine. get your improved thunderclap and revenge both are great for agro. since you run with your friends just make sure they know to give you a second to gather enough agro on all the mobs you are fighting so they can dps to thier hearts content.
an idiot dps is a dead dps =)make sure they know that
an idiot dps is a dead dps =)make sure they know that
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