Inspired by a thread in the priest forum asking why a priest didn't heal a pet who was tanking. I was thinking back on my experiences, and I have been berated multiple times for not healing DPS pets who were dying to cleaves, had hunters yell at me that their pets were dying, when their pets were dying to AOEs or other nonsense, and actually had people demand that I rez their pet.
So, how many hunters really care if their pet gets healed? Is my general attitude of "If the pet isn't tanking, it can deal with an occasional renew" a good one? Why would I want to blow lots of mana on a pet? How easy is it to get the pets out of cleaves/sweeping strikes?
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well , it is hard(or impossible?)to position a pet out of the cleaves,and as a beastmaster you're primary dps will come from the pet,i think they're gonna nerf the cleaves(thought i read it in rogue forums)so that would give the pets some more survivability i guess :/
I remember healers that help me keep my pet alive.
I make a point of forgetting ones that don't.
I make a point of forgetting ones that don't.
1 post
I love healers that keep pet up. And unless you are going oom or someone is pulling additional mobs i dont see why you shouldn't. If the pet is dead it doesnt do any dmg and if we're healing our pet we're not doing any DPS either, besides u tossing a few heals or hots even(the hunter can pull the pet out of combat when its low on hp) costs less mana than the hunter ressing the pet afterwards. This might change in patch though, so we'll just have to wait to see if the changes to mend pet is enough.
Well, a few points...
1. I had my pet off-tanking in a run, it was basically CC for as long as the healer could keep it and the MT alive. The healer, an incredible noob, sported no heals onto my pet. Low and behold, pet died, made it a ton harder. So if the pet is part of the plan, pulling aggro off you, or being very useful, yeah I'd heal it. I'd heal the MT first, but the pet's important too.
2. Find out what spec the hunter is. If he's SV or MM, his pet isn't going to matter as much. If he's BM, his pet will matter a lot. A marksman will lose 25% of his DPS if his pet dies, a BM will lose 40%. So if it's a BM hunter, his pet may be a little more important (of course keep up other melee DPS first).
3. In the new patch, DPS pets shouldn't need too much more than the occasional hot. Avoidance, cleave nerf, proper pet placement, and Mend Pet being changed to a hot will allow pets to live longer while the hunter sacrifices little DPS.
So for pets with tactical purpose, or BM DPS, it may be important to heal the pet, although a little less so on the BM DPS in the next patch.
EDIT: Whenever I'm in a group, I tell the healer "unless I pull aggro off you, dont heal me. If I pull aggro off the tank its my fault, and I should pay the consequences. If you have the spare mana and time go ahead, but in life-or-death dont choose my health bar unless I'm keeping the hate off of you." Or something like that. I dont expect my pet to get healed unless it's part of the strategy.
Edited, May 4th 2007 6:11am by skribs
1. I had my pet off-tanking in a run, it was basically CC for as long as the healer could keep it and the MT alive. The healer, an incredible noob, sported no heals onto my pet. Low and behold, pet died, made it a ton harder. So if the pet is part of the plan, pulling aggro off you, or being very useful, yeah I'd heal it. I'd heal the MT first, but the pet's important too.
2. Find out what spec the hunter is. If he's SV or MM, his pet isn't going to matter as much. If he's BM, his pet will matter a lot. A marksman will lose 25% of his DPS if his pet dies, a BM will lose 40%. So if it's a BM hunter, his pet may be a little more important (of course keep up other melee DPS first).
3. In the new patch, DPS pets shouldn't need too much more than the occasional hot. Avoidance, cleave nerf, proper pet placement, and Mend Pet being changed to a hot will allow pets to live longer while the hunter sacrifices little DPS.
So for pets with tactical purpose, or BM DPS, it may be important to heal the pet, although a little less so on the BM DPS in the next patch.
EDIT: Whenever I'm in a group, I tell the healer "unless I pull aggro off you, dont heal me. If I pull aggro off the tank its my fault, and I should pay the consequences. If you have the spare mana and time go ahead, but in life-or-death dont choose my health bar unless I'm keeping the hate off of you." Or something like that. I dont expect my pet to get healed unless it's part of the strategy.
Edited, May 4th 2007 6:11am by skribs
I play both a hunter and a healer (resto specced druid). While the hunter is my main and has a ton more playtime, I mainly do instances with my druid and often have pets in my group.
Healing pets depends on the situation.
I normally expect that my pet gets healed when things are not rough.
So when fighting normal trash my pet will get damage now and then and I expect the healers tosses a hot on my pet now and then. However my pet should be lowest priority on heals. So when things get rough or when multiple targets receive damage, my pet dies. No problems with that.
In some fights my pet plays an essential role. In that kind of situation my pet should get a higher priority for heals, perhaps higher than other group members.
E.g. when fighting the end boss in mechanar or in sethek halls a hunter's pet can be very important (at least it is for our strategy).
The boss in sethek halls sheeps a player which is nearest to the boss and is not on top of the aggro list. So when my pet attacks the boss it gets sheep at least 70% of the time. This makes things much more easy as you have a full operating group most of the time. It can get a bit more difficult if your tank or healer gets sheeped, so the pet has to stay alive here; thus the healer should hot the pet after those arcane missles.
In Mechanar the end boss mind controls the player which is nearest to the boss and currently is not on top of the aggro list.
When the pet attacks the boss, it is 2nd nearest to the boss (we mostly do those instances with 3 ranged DDs, 1 tank, 1 healer). The result is, that the boss switches target to my pet every 15-20 seconds (seemingly to mind control it). As the pet can not be mindcontrolled, the boss does nothing and continues attacking the MT. So basically as long as my pet lives, nobody gets mind controlled which makes this fight a lot less complicated. It basically changes the fight from a 4 versus 2 to a 5 versus 1 fight. So in this fight my pet needs to stay alive and I expect my healer to heal my pet now and then (it receives some little damage when adds spawn).
So basically, heal the pets if you have time and mana for it (thus make them low priority targets of heals, but heal them). It takes the healer a lot less time and mana than the hunter to heal it. And it increases the group's DPS (since the pet lives and the hunter has not to stop DPS to heal the pet).
In fights where the pet is needed, treat them as such, meaning put them high an the heal priority, basically just after the main tank if it is essential that the pet lives through the fight.
Healing pets depends on the situation.
I normally expect that my pet gets healed when things are not rough.
So when fighting normal trash my pet will get damage now and then and I expect the healers tosses a hot on my pet now and then. However my pet should be lowest priority on heals. So when things get rough or when multiple targets receive damage, my pet dies. No problems with that.
In some fights my pet plays an essential role. In that kind of situation my pet should get a higher priority for heals, perhaps higher than other group members.
E.g. when fighting the end boss in mechanar or in sethek halls a hunter's pet can be very important (at least it is for our strategy).
The boss in sethek halls sheeps a player which is nearest to the boss and is not on top of the aggro list. So when my pet attacks the boss it gets sheep at least 70% of the time. This makes things much more easy as you have a full operating group most of the time. It can get a bit more difficult if your tank or healer gets sheeped, so the pet has to stay alive here; thus the healer should hot the pet after those arcane missles.
In Mechanar the end boss mind controls the player which is nearest to the boss and currently is not on top of the aggro list.
When the pet attacks the boss, it is 2nd nearest to the boss (we mostly do those instances with 3 ranged DDs, 1 tank, 1 healer). The result is, that the boss switches target to my pet every 15-20 seconds (seemingly to mind control it). As the pet can not be mindcontrolled, the boss does nothing and continues attacking the MT. So basically as long as my pet lives, nobody gets mind controlled which makes this fight a lot less complicated. It basically changes the fight from a 4 versus 2 to a 5 versus 1 fight. So in this fight my pet needs to stay alive and I expect my healer to heal my pet now and then (it receives some little damage when adds spawn).
So basically, heal the pets if you have time and mana for it (thus make them low priority targets of heals, but heal them). It takes the healer a lot less time and mana than the hunter to heal it. And it increases the group's DPS (since the pet lives and the hunter has not to stop DPS to heal the pet).
In fights where the pet is needed, treat them as such, meaning put them high an the heal priority, basically just after the main tank if it is essential that the pet lives through the fight.
even with hunter being my main, when I play my priest I normally don't heal pets other then renew.
I remember doing SM cath on my paladin, I was proud that not even the warlocks pet died. Granted, I was watching TV and checking every few seconds to make sure I was spamming FoL on the right target...
Anyway with a warlock, a fury warrior, a prot pally (I healed though), a shadow priest, and a rogue, you would expect on the final 2 bosses to have the locks pet on one and the warrior on the other...no it wound up being the priest in shadowform and the rogue tanking, I still kept em above 1/2 health! Yeah that one was funny (I tell the story not for my keeping them alive, but that its just funny who wound up tanking). But if you CAN keep everyone, including pets, up, that's great!
As far as rez's go, if you got the mana and I dont, res my pet. It'll make things go faster. If I've got the mana though, I'm fine doing it myself. I dont need mana to DPS, it just helps.
Anyway with a warlock, a fury warrior, a prot pally (I healed though), a shadow priest, and a rogue, you would expect on the final 2 bosses to have the locks pet on one and the warrior on the other...no it wound up being the priest in shadowform and the rogue tanking, I still kept em above 1/2 health! Yeah that one was funny (I tell the story not for my keeping them alive, but that its just funny who wound up tanking). But if you CAN keep everyone, including pets, up, that's great!
As far as rez's go, if you got the mana and I dont, res my pet. It'll make things go faster. If I've got the mana though, I'm fine doing it myself. I dont need mana to DPS, it just helps.
If I mess up and have my pet aggro something it shouldn't, or forget to turn growl off, then I can't really blame the healer for letting him die.
Other than that, I absolutely want heals when he needs them. He's doing his job in the group. Be it offtanking, DPS, or squishy protection. As a healer you should do yours.
I can't really get into the mentality some healers have that pets are a waste of mana. They're on the front lines working as part of the group. It's your job to keep the group alive. Sure, if both my pet and the MT are low on health, I won't argue that the MT needs healing first, but once he's back in the green, unless you're OOM my pet could use a heal, and frankly deserves one as much as anyone else. Would you let a Rogue die from AoEs if you still had mana?
If it makes you feel better, think of it as healing the Hunter themselves. I'm usually at a far enough distance I don't take much damage. For the most part, dropping a renew on me is enough, give the pet "my" heals.
Admittedly demanding a Priest res a pet is somewhat silly. We can do that, but we'd really rather not have to if it came down to you dropping a half decent heal on it before it actually bit the dust.
With the changes to cleaves and stuff, it should help pet survivability, and the changes to Mend Pet should help a lot also. But in cases where this is not enough, and the pet is going to die without some intervention. As a healer, unless you're OOM or already healing a more important group member, you're not doing your job if you let the pet die.
Other than that, I absolutely want heals when he needs them. He's doing his job in the group. Be it offtanking, DPS, or squishy protection. As a healer you should do yours.
I can't really get into the mentality some healers have that pets are a waste of mana. They're on the front lines working as part of the group. It's your job to keep the group alive. Sure, if both my pet and the MT are low on health, I won't argue that the MT needs healing first, but once he's back in the green, unless you're OOM my pet could use a heal, and frankly deserves one as much as anyone else. Would you let a Rogue die from AoEs if you still had mana?
If it makes you feel better, think of it as healing the Hunter themselves. I'm usually at a far enough distance I don't take much damage. For the most part, dropping a renew on me is enough, give the pet "my" heals.
Admittedly demanding a Priest res a pet is somewhat silly. We can do that, but we'd really rather not have to if it came down to you dropping a half decent heal on it before it actually bit the dust.
With the changes to cleaves and stuff, it should help pet survivability, and the changes to Mend Pet should help a lot also. But in cases where this is not enough, and the pet is going to die without some intervention. As a healer, unless you're OOM or already healing a more important group member, you're not doing your job if you let the pet die.
What inspired that post was my experiances with priests while they expected me to tank. Warriors/palis and shaman's were unavailable. and we had a group of clothies for an instance with the top end of it being my lvl. they wanted me to tank. My pet Was main tanking and yes... Beastial wraith should have been a big hint that I am BM speced. and not one heal for my poor cat. And so of course she died. and what happened after that? the group of mobs rushed me next. i died in like seconds to the 8 or so mobs left. (i hate that rogue with a passion) then they stomped the clothies. Rogue... that SoB I hope someone guts him. He did it 2 or 3 times before i left group. see post in priest class forums to get full details. the main thing was I didnt get a heal for my pet what so ever even though the priest saw my efforts to try to keep Redeemer alive. I got 2 heals thrown on me before i was stomped flat. this person was not a good healer.
I really dislike healing pets unless it pivital that it doesn't die. If it is tanking I make sure to keep its health up but once we are out of combat I never heal the pets. I spend my mana on healing the tanks and other player, and HoT the pets if I have to.
I feel like it depends on how useful the pet is being. Personally, as a hunter, I don't expect healers to heal my pet on a normal basis. Even in small groups, it just doesn't happen. Even when my pet is main-tanking, I've sometimes had to ask for a pet heal because I ran out of mana to do it myself.
Now, the reality of it, and what little I expect to see, aside... I do believe that pets should be healed based on how much they're doing. As a Beast Master, my pet is often 3rd to 4th on a damage meter, and 2nd on a damage-taken meter, in a 5-man group. That's a pretty sizable chunk with only six names (seven if there's a lock or mage with ele) on the meter, and the pet is playing a respectable role in the group. Especially since it's #2 on the damage-taken meter, it deserves some heals.
An MM hunter's pet, however, is usually on the bottom of the damage list and low on the damage-taken list, because they are weaker on top of being commanded less effectively. If a pet can't pull its weight, then it really doesn't need a heal.
Regarding pet rezzing, though.. don't. It costs the hunter less to resurrect their own pet, even without Improved Revive.
Now, the reality of it, and what little I expect to see, aside... I do believe that pets should be healed based on how much they're doing. As a Beast Master, my pet is often 3rd to 4th on a damage meter, and 2nd on a damage-taken meter, in a 5-man group. That's a pretty sizable chunk with only six names (seven if there's a lock or mage with ele) on the meter, and the pet is playing a respectable role in the group. Especially since it's #2 on the damage-taken meter, it deserves some heals.
An MM hunter's pet, however, is usually on the bottom of the damage list and low on the damage-taken list, because they are weaker on top of being commanded less effectively. If a pet can't pull its weight, then it really doesn't need a heal.
Regarding pet rezzing, though.. don't. It costs the hunter less to resurrect their own pet, even without Improved Revive.
Cleaves should be less of an issue in the next patch, because they'll be directional. If the tank can turn the mob away from the group, then it should be fairly easy to get your pet behind the mob.
Personally I feel that pets, particularly Beastmaster pets, make a good contribution to damage, so if the healer can throw in a HoT then that is great. That's all I'd ask for.
Personally I feel that pets, particularly Beastmaster pets, make a good contribution to damage, so if the healer can throw in a HoT then that is great. That's all I'd ask for.
Hot's are nice, other heals only when pet is offtanking.
beyond that, the hunter has to keep its own pet alive through either mending or pulling back at the right time.
beyond that, the hunter has to keep its own pet alive through either mending or pulling back at the right time.
I agree with skribs and Mulgrin. There are times when the healer had darn well better be healing my pet or the party is likely to crash and burn. And there are times when I don’t expect the healer to even look at my pet unless he/she has manna to spare. It’s very situational.
Here's the way I look at it, and I'll try to explain this in a PUG so the Healers know what is expected of them:
If my Pet is on a Boss, it's my job to watch its Health. I know they Cleave and Sweeping Strike, and I can pull it back and bandage it or cast a Mend Pet on it. Pet mitigation is so poor that it's a waste of Healer mana to heal them, and I wouldn't want them spending mana and attention on my Pet when the Tanks and the rest of the group needs their attention much more.
If my Pet is assigned to off-tanking duties, or I have to send it to try to peel a mob off of a Healer (or more likely slow it down for a few seconds until I can Trap it or a Tank can pull it off the Healer), then I expect heals to the Pet since my own ability to heal the Pet just won't be enough.
If my Pet is on a Boss, it's my job to watch its Health. I know they Cleave and Sweeping Strike, and I can pull it back and bandage it or cast a Mend Pet on it. Pet mitigation is so poor that it's a waste of Healer mana to heal them, and I wouldn't want them spending mana and attention on my Pet when the Tanks and the rest of the group needs their attention much more.
If my Pet is assigned to off-tanking duties, or I have to send it to try to peel a mob off of a Healer (or more likely slow it down for a few seconds until I can Trap it or a Tank can pull it off the Healer), then I expect heals to the Pet since my own ability to heal the Pet just won't be enough.
I agree. There are times when a healer needs to heal the pet. I've seen many such healers. They have a good feel for when to do it, and they just do it - they see if the pets contributing a LOT or a little. If pet is offtanking or pulling agro off a player, that's usually a LOT. Pure DPS is a little.
Even then I've seen healers keep the pet and Tank alive and not come even close to running out of mana. Some healers are really good at healing; some are really good at complaining.
Even then I've seen healers keep the pet and Tank alive and not come even close to running out of mana. Some healers are really good at healing; some are really good at complaining.
In normal 5 man instances while we're just dealing with trash mobs, I appreciate it but don't expect it. The healer needs to pay more attention to the players that have something to lose if they die. If my pet dies, sure it's a little inconvenient, but I don't have to wait for it to run back to the instance, nor do I have to pay money to rez repair its armor. Not to mention, I have 2/2 improved revive pet because I needed something useful to get to the next tier of my BM skills (I'm mainly MM, though), so it's quick and doesn't take very much mana to bring it back.
For those who consider the pet a crucial part of the DPS, lets just assume the group's DPS is rogue, mage, and hunter, and lets say the hunter is BM. now lets assume they each total to 100 DPS (low for end-game, but easy number to work with). The mage shouldn't need too many heals, since it's way in the back. So the heals are spread between the warrior, the rogue, and my pet. Uh...lets see here...1st priority is tank. then onto DPS, would you rather lose 100 DPS from the rogue, or 40 DPS from the pet? If I were the healer, I'd let the pet die before the rogue. Not just for the waiting period of the group, but also because the DPS the group sacrifices is less if the players survive.
Of course, if the pet is off-tanking, it should take priority over the other DPS. I think the order of importance in keeping people alive is:
Main Healer (If there's no off-healers)
Main Tank
Off-Healer
Off-Tank/Tank Pets
DPS
DPS Pets
I could be wrong but that's the order I would keep people healed if I were on a healing class.
Of course, if the pet is off-tanking, it should take priority over the other DPS. I think the order of importance in keeping people alive is:
Main Healer (If there's no off-healers)
Main Tank
Off-Healer
Off-Tank/Tank Pets
DPS
DPS Pets
I could be wrong but that's the order I would keep people healed if I were on a healing class.
if a pet is dieing of AoE, there is not much you can do, except if you are very generous and give it a HoT :).
but if a pet is tanking a mob, and he is the only one holding it, it is a very important piece of the party, because if it dies the mob goes to the next one on the aggro list... the healer who is healing the rest of the party.
but if a pet is tanking a mob, and he is the only one holding it, it is a very important piece of the party, because if it dies the mob goes to the next one on the aggro list... the healer who is healing the rest of the party.
Scholar
37 posts
I'm so used to not having heals on my pet (mainly in pug's) that it suprises me when it "does" get heals.
IMO i'm used to deciding when to let my pet live or die, tank or OT or CC. The only time I get upset that kitty doesnt get a heal is (as others say) he is MT'ing or keeping agro off the healer.... Just last night we where in a 5 man, 7 mob pull went very badly from the start. I froze 1 mob, agro'd and kited another while hitting growl and pulling agro off the healer with my pet. Normal stuff until the warlock blew my trap and the healer ignored the pets health and let him die. Then it was "hunter dances with 3 mobs"
IMO i'm used to deciding when to let my pet live or die, tank or OT or CC. The only time I get upset that kitty doesnt get a heal is (as others say) he is MT'ing or keeping agro off the healer.... Just last night we where in a 5 man, 7 mob pull went very badly from the start. I froze 1 mob, agro'd and kited another while hitting growl and pulling agro off the healer with my pet. Normal stuff until the warlock blew my trap and the healer ignored the pets health and let him die. Then it was "hunter dances with 3 mobs"
Don't lose focus.
In instances, I'm surprised and annoyed if the healer does heal my pet during boss fights. Just keep the tank alive and rest of the party of course.
If it's trash clearing (to the boss), then a pet heal is very much appreciated.
To be honest, better to let the pet die than me or anyone else on the party.
In instances, I'm surprised and annoyed if the healer does heal my pet during boss fights. Just keep the tank alive and rest of the party of course.
If it's trash clearing (to the boss), then a pet heal is very much appreciated.
To be honest, better to let the pet die than me or anyone else on the party.
Kompera wrote:
If my Pet is assigned to off-tanking duties, or I have to send it to try to peel a mob off of a Healer (or more likely slow it down for a few seconds until I can Trap it or a Tank can pull it off the Healer), then I expect heals to the Pet since my own ability to heal the Pet just won't be enough.
There's something many of the non-healers are missing about healing a pet in a pinch when its used for emergency growls and such. The way the game is designed, your healers aren't observing the battle. Their eyes are glued to the party or raid frames.
Having been there since I started levelling a pallie, I wouldn't even notice that an add is heading for me until I see my own health dropping, and in the same fashion, I probably won't be noticing who it was who pulled stuff off me, unless something happens to the health bar.
Add to that the fact that many of the more popular raid frames don't display pets (or don't by default) and that 6th or 26th party member doesn't get noticed at all - its health is not visible to the healer.
Being deprived of HoTs, in 5-men my priority is with the tank (pallies are notoriously inefficient at anything but single-target healing, BTW) then any player with high squishiness. If I'm satisfied with the player's health bar I tend to quickly scan the pet bars on the party frame and toss a spare heal or a cleanse where appropriate.
The point I'm making is that automatically assuming a healer who doesn't pay attention to pets is a bad one is a tad harsh given the way they function and what they are watching during a fight. However, those who consistenly manage to spread their attention to pets on top of their other duties you should treasure as better-than-average players.
This obviously doesn't apply to situations where a specific pet has been given an official permanent role as MT or OT. That's where /focus helps.
I don't have any experience in raids, but in 5-mans on my healer I've been able to keep the pets alive. I just use the basic wow interface (I dont feel like D/Ling UI mods right now since I'm building a new computer in a week) and I see pet health just fine in the 5-man. The pet also serves a more important role in there. So at least in 5 or less person raids, it is easily possible to heal the pet.
When I'm using my priest i treat the pet very much like another party member. I try to keep it alive when I can but it also has the lowest priorty since it's xp is easy to regain and it has no need for loot.
Got to put my 2 cents in :P
Anyways, I am MM Spec, my pet is there to die as I always say, I praise the healers that keep my pets up, but I do not demand it. If he dies, he dies, oh well, I just remind everybody that it takes that much longer to get ready for the next pull.
There, my 2 cents
Anyways, I am MM Spec, my pet is there to die as I always say, I praise the healers that keep my pets up, but I do not demand it. If he dies, he dies, oh well, I just remind everybody that it takes that much longer to get ready for the next pull.
There, my 2 cents
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