And I don't ever have any trouble in instances, or solo. I've been told by numerous people that I'm a "horrible *** hunter" and a "pathetic n00b who doesn't know how to play". To them I say, at least I'm having fun. The game isn't about maximizing DPS or obsessing over 1 more point of agility to me. It's about fun.
Figured I'd put it out there.
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- I don't use a shot rotation.
I don't use a shot rotation.Follow
So...the question is...what DO you do? Auto-shot spam? Pick random shots and use them?
Auto-shot spam I can understand, but for the most part a shot rotation will make you more efficient, be it time-wise or mana-wise.
As long as you aren't pulling hate off the tank, and as long as you do enough DPS to shorten fights so the healer isn't taking the hits to their mana, its fine if you dont do DPS.
But if you're going to post something saying you "dont do X", post up what you do, so maybe we could try it out and see how we like it.
If I posted saying "I dont use boars, because its more fun" yeah, thats cool, but what else do I use instead of a boar? Why is it more fun?
So my 2 questions are - what do you use, and why dont you find shot rotations fun?
Auto-shot spam I can understand, but for the most part a shot rotation will make you more efficient, be it time-wise or mana-wise.
As long as you aren't pulling hate off the tank, and as long as you do enough DPS to shorten fights so the healer isn't taking the hits to their mana, its fine if you dont do DPS.
But if you're going to post something saying you "dont do X", post up what you do, so maybe we could try it out and see how we like it.
If I posted saying "I dont use boars, because its more fun" yeah, thats cool, but what else do I use instead of a boar? Why is it more fun?
So my 2 questions are - what do you use, and why dont you find shot rotations fun?
I'm not playing a game for effeciency. Normally I'll just send the pet in and hit Arcane if I'm thinking of it or I'll toss in an Aimed Shot. I normally just auto-shot and mend pet when necessary. Fun to me isn't worrying about the damage I'm doing.
So you are playing for efficiency. You're doing damage by using virtually no mana. To you, fun is simply using as few clicks and mana as possible to kill the mob. The thing is, later on you will most likely need to deal a lot of damage, otherwise healer goes OOM due to a drawn-out fight, and good-bye group.
I think I can help answer your questions Skribs. For number crunchers and those looking to size up their e-peens with everyone else in the game using a DPS meter, a Shot-Rotation is what everyone expects of a hunter. You become more efficient and deal more damage then if you just sat there and left it on Auto-Shot.
A lot of hunters I've talked to tend to not use this system mainly due to lazyness but also because they don't want to have to time everything down to the split second. Sure you can tell them, "If you just hit Steady Shot right after you shoot, you'd up your DPS by a lot!" they might be inclined to try it, but when you're in an instance or raid, as long as you're dealing damage, no one's really going to care about your shot-rotation but yourself.
Boss fights are a different story, you want to get in as much damage as possible. For hunter's this is easy to do. We can pretty much go all out, Feign Death, and start firing again. A shot-rotation helps us even more so we can maximize our DPS for these fights to take the bosses down that much quicker.
For some, this is fun, because you get to compete with your friends over DPS charts. But for others it's a tedious action that requires "work" and not play. I'm the guy in the middle. I love to maximize my DPS for the boss fights, so the boss gets down quicker, but I tend not to waste my time with a shot rotation on normal mobs, I'll just spam a few shots here and there and always make sure Scorpid Sting is on and I'm good. I could care less that a rogue, mage, warrior, whatever is out-DPSing me. The charts mean nothing to me, especially if the group dies before the mob dies.
I find the shot rotation to be more troublesome and bothersome for normal fights. I can go through my arrows really fast, or I can conserve. I won't do as much damage, but the group also isn't in danger.
I agree completely with this statement. When the game becomes more work and obsession over actually having fun, that's when I quit. There's no point in it for me. Everyone is different how they interpret fun though. Some people just love their shot-rotations and keeping track of their DPS. It's all about competition.
A lot of hunters I've talked to tend to not use this system mainly due to lazyness but also because they don't want to have to time everything down to the split second. Sure you can tell them, "If you just hit Steady Shot right after you shoot, you'd up your DPS by a lot!" they might be inclined to try it, but when you're in an instance or raid, as long as you're dealing damage, no one's really going to care about your shot-rotation but yourself.
Boss fights are a different story, you want to get in as much damage as possible. For hunter's this is easy to do. We can pretty much go all out, Feign Death, and start firing again. A shot-rotation helps us even more so we can maximize our DPS for these fights to take the bosses down that much quicker.
For some, this is fun, because you get to compete with your friends over DPS charts. But for others it's a tedious action that requires "work" and not play. I'm the guy in the middle. I love to maximize my DPS for the boss fights, so the boss gets down quicker, but I tend not to waste my time with a shot rotation on normal mobs, I'll just spam a few shots here and there and always make sure Scorpid Sting is on and I'm good. I could care less that a rogue, mage, warrior, whatever is out-DPSing me. The charts mean nothing to me, especially if the group dies before the mob dies.
I find the shot rotation to be more troublesome and bothersome for normal fights. I can go through my arrows really fast, or I can conserve. I won't do as much damage, but the group also isn't in danger.
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The game isn't about maximizing DPS or obsessing over 1 more point of agility to me. It's about fun.
I agree completely with this statement. When the game becomes more work and obsession over actually having fun, that's when I quit. There's no point in it for me. Everyone is different how they interpret fun though. Some people just love their shot-rotations and keeping track of their DPS. It's all about competition.
Indeed. I'm already endgame and working on Karazhan. My guild has never once said anything about me upping my damage or speccing out of Beast Mastery. The right combination of people and attitudes can go a long way. Like my friend said to me once, "If I need a calculator for a game, it's no longer fun."
Theres a difference between maxing out for 1 more point of agility, and not using what is readily and easily available to you. Are you saying you don't use steady shots between regular shots?
I would think that chances are, you guild doesn't say anything because they aren't rude enough.. its really not hard to press a steady shot button every 2 seconds, even if you don't want to do a full blown shot rotation.. really what you are saying is that you are ok with other people picking up your slack.
What ARE you worrying about if not the damage you are doing? Thats like a healer not worrying about healing, or a tank not worrying about keeping the mob on him... this is a team sport where everyone has a role to play.
I would think that chances are, you guild doesn't say anything because they aren't rude enough.. its really not hard to press a steady shot button every 2 seconds, even if you don't want to do a full blown shot rotation.. really what you are saying is that you are ok with other people picking up your slack.
What ARE you worrying about if not the damage you are doing? Thats like a healer not worrying about healing, or a tank not worrying about keeping the mob on him... this is a team sport where everyone has a role to play.
I mean, otherwise it would be acceptable to be a melee hunter. Hey, hitting "raptor strike" every 6 seconds isn't hard, and if you load up on "of the tiger" gear you'll get DPS out of it, you could DPS like that, right?
Only time in instances I'll auto-shot only: OOM or when I'm pulling too much aggro. Otherwise I use up some of my mana (it may only be arcane shot every 10 seconds or so) to actually add some damage, and thus leave some mana in the healer's pool. Think about it, if it takes 30 seconds to kill a mob, and you can lower that to 25 per by throwing in some extra, and that reduces the healers downtime by 5 seconds (a few less heals), you essentially save 10 seconds per mob, which could add up to several minutes over the course of the instance. It will also be cheaper on the healer.
Only time in instances I'll auto-shot only: OOM or when I'm pulling too much aggro. Otherwise I use up some of my mana (it may only be arcane shot every 10 seconds or so) to actually add some damage, and thus leave some mana in the healer's pool. Think about it, if it takes 30 seconds to kill a mob, and you can lower that to 25 per by throwing in some extra, and that reduces the healers downtime by 5 seconds (a few less heals), you essentially save 10 seconds per mob, which could add up to several minutes over the course of the instance. It will also be cheaper on the healer.
No, my guild doesn't say anything because they don't care either. Yet, we're working our way into endgame stuff. No, I don't use steady shot between auto-shots. Why? Don't really care to. I'm sure I COULD, but I don't want to.
Also, don't try to put words in my mouth. No one has to "pick up slack" from me, nor do I expect anyone to. We all do our parts, and we do them with no problems. Because my playstyle doesn't mesh with yours, it doesn't mean I'm not doing it "right". I never once said it was hard to use a rotation, I simply don't do it.
What am I worrying about? Nothing. That's why it's fun to me, and nothing more. This is not a "team sport". This is a game, where the only responsibility I have is to keep it fun for me. But thanks for proving my point.
Also, don't try to put words in my mouth. No one has to "pick up slack" from me, nor do I expect anyone to. We all do our parts, and we do them with no problems. Because my playstyle doesn't mesh with yours, it doesn't mean I'm not doing it "right". I never once said it was hard to use a rotation, I simply don't do it.
What am I worrying about? Nothing. That's why it's fun to me, and nothing more. This is not a "team sport". This is a game, where the only responsibility I have is to keep it fun for me. But thanks for proving my point.
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No, my guild doesn't say anything because they don't care either. Yet, we're working our way into endgame stuff. No, I don't use steady shot between auto-shots. Why? Don't really care to. I'm sure I COULD, but I don't want to.
Also, don't try to put words in my mouth. No one has to "pick up slack" from me, nor do I expect anyone to.
Also, don't try to put words in my mouth. No one has to "pick up slack" from me, nor do I expect anyone to.
Sure they do. On any encounter where there's any kind of limiting factor (such as mana, or time - fights with an enrage timer), if you're doing less than you have to, by definition someone else is doing more to help cover for the loss. This isn't that big of a deal in normal five-mans, but on the hard raid fights it's a huge deal when you're fighting against a bosses timer. If you're doing bad DPS, someone else has to be doing exceptional DPS or your group cannot beat the boss.
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We all do our parts, and we do them with no problems. Because my playstyle doesn't mesh with yours, it doesn't mean I'm not doing it "right". I never once said it was hard to use a rotation, I simply don't do it.
*shrug* Each to their own.
There's nothing wrong at all with playing Warcraft as a game, for fun. Your problem is you have something of a superiority complex about people who do try to play their class to the best of their abilities. The fact that you don't play your hunter very well doesn't make you cool - it makes you lazy.
You don't have to be a powergamer to have a basic understanding of what makes your class work. Not having that understanding doesn't give you the ability to sneer at those who do, and doesn't mean that people who play well aren't having fun.
If you don't care, why'd you tell us this? Maybe in single-player games your job is to keep it fun, but if you're playing a multiplayer game it IS a team game. Notice that most people complain about hunters b/c "all they do is deal damage". Granted, we trap too, but from your 2-click fight I'll assume you dont. So if you dont even live up to our stereotypical only thing we do, that ruins hunter rep.
Basically, if you threw in a few shots, maybe not an uber shot rotation that's timed to the 0.01 second, but just simply after each auto-shot you throw in a steady shot or an arcane shot (if its not on CD and you're paying attention), you can still have a fairly easy time (you click more, but doesn't require a whole lot of thought) and do a lot more damage.
He wasn't putting words into your mouth either...he was simply saying that your actions (which we all know 'actions speak louder than words') tell the group to do more, i.e. healer heal more, tank keep aggro longer, other DD spam more and (unless rogue) waste more mana, because it's fun for me to do as few clicks as possible.
Basically, if you threw in a few shots, maybe not an uber shot rotation that's timed to the 0.01 second, but just simply after each auto-shot you throw in a steady shot or an arcane shot (if its not on CD and you're paying attention), you can still have a fairly easy time (you click more, but doesn't require a whole lot of thought) and do a lot more damage.
He wasn't putting words into your mouth either...he was simply saying that your actions (which we all know 'actions speak louder than words') tell the group to do more, i.e. healer heal more, tank keep aggro longer, other DD spam more and (unless rogue) waste more mana, because it's fun for me to do as few clicks as possible.
I'm not putting words in your mouth, you said them yourself.
By your own definition, you dont do even close to the amount of damage that you can. Mobs dont have less health simply because you cant be bothered doing more damage, someone else has to fill in the damage a better hunter would do. Whether it is another DPS doing the extra damage, or the tank paying a higher repair bill because the fights last longer, someone is paying for your laziness. If you have a guild that accepts that, more power to you.
But, in posting it here it is like you are in some way trying to validate your style of play, and in turn indicates that you feel it in some way should be validated. If you have fun through mediocrity that's your business, I guess.
By your own definition, you dont do even close to the amount of damage that you can. Mobs dont have less health simply because you cant be bothered doing more damage, someone else has to fill in the damage a better hunter would do. Whether it is another DPS doing the extra damage, or the tank paying a higher repair bill because the fights last longer, someone is paying for your laziness. If you have a guild that accepts that, more power to you.
But, in posting it here it is like you are in some way trying to validate your style of play, and in turn indicates that you feel it in some way should be validated. If you have fun through mediocrity that's your business, I guess.
Mediocrity?
Wow. Guess I'll go back to not posting here anymore.
Wow. Guess I'll go back to not posting here anymore.
Well, what would you define it as?
I think mediocrity is a nice way of putting it, isn't it?
Really, you are advocating laziness as a fun way to play, right?
I think mediocrity is a nice way of putting it, isn't it?
Really, you are advocating laziness as a fun way to play, right?
What you don't understand is that a raid IS like a team sport. If you and your friends decide to play a football game for fun and you decide not to run because the effort would make it less fun, YOU ARE HURTING YOUR TEAM. Yes your having fun, yes you have the right to play the way you want to, but is it fair to your teamates when they are all trying their best?
Scholar
24 posts
/feed troll
This has to be a troll effort but on the chance that it isn't:
Shot rotation doesn't really come into solo unless you are farming elites because most mobs are dead after a few shots anyway.
People have said you are a "horrible *** hunter" and a "pathetic n00b who doesn't know how to play" because from what you have said this is patently obvious. Each class has a role or a few roles to perform in an instance and a hunter's primary role is ranged DPS with an aggro dump (meaning you can go all out damage wise). If a mage simply wanded throughout an instance or a healer only cast lesser heals or a tank didn't s&b they would be called noobs too.
I agree that damage meters mean squat, especially for a hunter in a 5 man where you will be CCing (you know, traps), watching squishies, OTing with pet (not really needed with good CC) or kiting. However, you can increase your damage by simply hitting the Steady Shot key every time you see an auto-shot fly.
What you're talking about isn't mediocrity, it's incompetence. You "put it out there" and then seem shocked that people tell you what they think of your dumb attitude.
/stop feeding
Tono
Edited, May 4th 2007 2:44am by Tono
Tayron wrote:
And I don't ever have any trouble in instances, or solo. I've been told by numerous people that I'm a "horrible *** hunter" and a "pathetic n00b who doesn't know how to play". To them I say, at least I'm having fun. The game isn't about maximizing DPS or obsessing over 1 more point of agility to me. It's about fun.
Figured I'd put it out there.
Figured I'd put it out there.
This has to be a troll effort but on the chance that it isn't:
Shot rotation doesn't really come into solo unless you are farming elites because most mobs are dead after a few shots anyway.
People have said you are a "horrible *** hunter" and a "pathetic n00b who doesn't know how to play" because from what you have said this is patently obvious. Each class has a role or a few roles to perform in an instance and a hunter's primary role is ranged DPS with an aggro dump (meaning you can go all out damage wise). If a mage simply wanded throughout an instance or a healer only cast lesser heals or a tank didn't s&b they would be called noobs too.
I agree that damage meters mean squat, especially for a hunter in a 5 man where you will be CCing (you know, traps), watching squishies, OTing with pet (not really needed with good CC) or kiting. However, you can increase your damage by simply hitting the Steady Shot key every time you see an auto-shot fly.
Tayron wrote:
Mediocrity?
Wow. Guess I'll go back to not posting here anymore.
Wow. Guess I'll go back to not posting here anymore.
What you're talking about isn't mediocrity, it's incompetence. You "put it out there" and then seem shocked that people tell you what they think of your dumb attitude.
/stop feeding
Tono
Edited, May 4th 2007 2:44am by Tono
Yes this is a game, and you should want to enjoy it and have fun. Solo the hell out of it then. If you want to run instances, you have a job to do, and others are relying on you. Maybe you dont' want to farm instances for your whole D3 set, or run Shadow Labs 50 billion times just so you can get your sonic spear, so be it. But if you want to have your groups keep inviting your back, you are going to have to start doign that job, which is DPS.
To sit there and autoshot and hit arcane shot "when you feel like it" is just weak. Maybe your guild hasn't complained becasue with 10 people running around Karazan, who pays attention to what the hunter is doing, as long as he isn't pulling aggro, which by the soudn of it you most definatly are not.
At the very least hit SS between auto shot and nearly double your DPS. It will help the raid out, and your guild members may appreciate it. If you are that lazy, I guess nobody relies on you for CC'ing mobs.
From the sound of things, you sir, are the type of player that has the general comuninty refering to us as "Huntards." You want o play the way you feel like, go solo. You want to play as a team, lear to be a team player, and learn your role in a 5 man and raids. Your current play style makes the game harder and less enjoyable for the people that you group with.
To sit there and autoshot and hit arcane shot "when you feel like it" is just weak. Maybe your guild hasn't complained becasue with 10 people running around Karazan, who pays attention to what the hunter is doing, as long as he isn't pulling aggro, which by the soudn of it you most definatly are not.
At the very least hit SS between auto shot and nearly double your DPS. It will help the raid out, and your guild members may appreciate it. If you are that lazy, I guess nobody relies on you for CC'ing mobs.
From the sound of things, you sir, are the type of player that has the general comuninty refering to us as "Huntards." You want o play the way you feel like, go solo. You want to play as a team, lear to be a team player, and learn your role in a 5 man and raids. Your current play style makes the game harder and less enjoyable for the people that you group with.
I'm not going to go into the benefits of a shot rotation, but here's my take on the situation.
This is a game, and you play a game to have fun. When you're by yourself, play however you want to because it's your character, and your fun.
When you're in a group, however, you have to consider the other people you're grouping with. This is a multiplayer game, and other people's fun matters, too.
Just be aware of the difference between you having fun... and you taking away from your friends' fun.
This is a game, and you play a game to have fun. When you're by yourself, play however you want to because it's your character, and your fun.
When you're in a group, however, you have to consider the other people you're grouping with. This is a multiplayer game, and other people's fun matters, too.
Just be aware of the difference between you having fun... and you taking away from your friends' fun.
Well... I would have to say you prolly should have picked a different class... but im not gonna nit pick. I personally love seeing my mana bar at nothing after destroying some elite mob as fast as I can. I found a place where I can grind gold at about a rate of 6 gold an hour. not counting drops. in Tanaris. That being said. My friend is supprized that I survive so well with out dated gear. and I said. The only thing I really need to worry about is the stat bonuses. I recently got a few decent drops from ZF and was able to put some of my nice scarlet pieces in my bank for my RP roll and am now sporting an extra 40 agil :) fun stuff.
Quote:
Mediocrity?
Wow. Guess I'll go back to not posting here anymore.
Wow. Guess I'll go back to not posting here anymore.
Nah, don't do that. You had to know that your post would be flamed; c'mon, admit it. Too many people take the game, and themselves too seriously. It's fun to get under their skin when they let you do it so easily.
I think it's great that you've found way to play that you enjoy, that is consistent with the people you play with, AND manages to annoy the number-crunchers. Have a rate-up :)
Make sure and get back to us when your guild tries to take on Shade of Aran and fails miserably because you can't DPS him down before he goes OOM.
We'll all want to laugh.
We'll all want to laugh.
Personally,
I don't like the use of DPS meters to measure people's contributions. If you're having to crowd control a lot, for instance, then it won't be measured on those.
Of course, you have a responsibility (in a way) to have fun. That's the point of playing a game, and I don't want to do things that aren't fun in my game. (Which, for me, is why I don't raid.)
But if my group is up against a boss I want the group to kill him and dance on his corpse, and I want to do all I can to make that happen. If I just stood around and autoshotted then maybe we would fail because of a lack of damage. And that wouldn't be fun for the rest of my group.
That's my $0.02 to the original poster.
I don't like the use of DPS meters to measure people's contributions. If you're having to crowd control a lot, for instance, then it won't be measured on those.
Of course, you have a responsibility (in a way) to have fun. That's the point of playing a game, and I don't want to do things that aren't fun in my game. (Which, for me, is why I don't raid.)
But if my group is up against a boss I want the group to kill him and dance on his corpse, and I want to do all I can to make that happen. If I just stood around and autoshotted then maybe we would fail because of a lack of damage. And that wouldn't be fun for the rest of my group.
That's my $0.02 to the original poster.
joobishwun wrote:
I'm the guy in the middle.
I love to maximize my DPS for the boss fights, so the boss gets down quicker,
but I tend not to waste my time/mana with a shot rotation on normal mobs.
I'll just spam a few shots here and there and always make sure the right Sting is on and I'm good.
I could care less that a rogue, mage, warrior, whatever is out-DPSing me.
I love to maximize my DPS for the boss fights, so the boss gets down quicker,
but I tend not to waste my time/mana with a shot rotation on normal mobs.
I'll just spam a few shots here and there and always make sure the right Sting is on and I'm good.
I could care less that a rogue, mage, warrior, whatever is out-DPSing me.
me.
skribs wrote:
Only time in instances I'll auto-shot only: OOM or when I'm pulling too much aggro.
use mana pot on boss, aspect of the viper on trash.
to much aggro is FD.
tayron wrote:
I've been told by numerous people that I'm a "horrible *** hunter" and a "pathetic n00b who doesn't know how to play".
i'm having the urge to join those people.
and i am not a number chruncher or anything like that, i dont mean to be top of the charts. and i set fun above all.
but besides that, i dont want my team to fail becuase i cant push a few more buttons.
tayron wrote:
Wow. Guess I'll go back to not posting here anymore.
please do.
It seems to me that a shot rotation is just practical and easy really . I myself , have set up my action bar in order of shot rotation . From left to right ; Aimed shot , sting , arcane , concussion ect. ( auto shots in between ) It's really not that hard to move your mouse over one little tab at a time and click ... It may take some tweaking to get your shot rotation how you like it but , it just makes sense . This shouldn't be a hassle .
If your in a group , typically your role will be to help keep mobs off the squishies with pet and pull mobs from time to time but most importantly , deal ranged damage . Maybe I'm wrong but , I'm pretty sure that's pretty much what most people expect anyways .
Well, it looks like the eltism has moved to WoW. Great -.-
p.s. when solo fighting elites, I usually don't use much besides autoshot because mana efficiency is important. Keeping mana for mend pet will save you. If you just spam, you may get them down to half life in half the time, but if your pet dies and they come after you while you have no mana, you're DPS is going to be going waaaay down while you're dead on the ground. I know, I calculated it to be .0054 damage per microsecond better. Its scientific.
oh yeah, and sometimes, I kill something and WAIT A FEW SECONDS TO TAKE A SIP OF WATER. I know I'm hurting my XP per second and all, but I think I'll live.
pps. It is not just a dichotomy besides cookie-cutter-scientific-formula-best-method and noob. There's a huge range, and people don't have to be best of the best to be SUFFICIENT. You can still do good things just being pretty good.
Edited, May 4th 2007 1:05pm by digitalcraft
Edited, May 4th 2007 1:07pm by digitalcraft
p.s. when solo fighting elites, I usually don't use much besides autoshot because mana efficiency is important. Keeping mana for mend pet will save you. If you just spam, you may get them down to half life in half the time, but if your pet dies and they come after you while you have no mana, you're DPS is going to be going waaaay down while you're dead on the ground. I know, I calculated it to be .0054 damage per microsecond better. Its scientific.
oh yeah, and sometimes, I kill something and WAIT A FEW SECONDS TO TAKE A SIP OF WATER. I know I'm hurting my XP per second and all, but I think I'll live.
pps. It is not just a dichotomy besides cookie-cutter-scientific-formula-best-method and noob. There's a huge range, and people don't have to be best of the best to be SUFFICIENT. You can still do good things just being pretty good.
Edited, May 4th 2007 1:05pm by digitalcraft
Edited, May 4th 2007 1:07pm by digitalcraft
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