Rogues are invincibleFollow

I always told myself that CLoS wasn't that bad.

I said to myself, "You can find something to do those 5 seconds and then start pwning again"

I dueled many Rogues to prepare myself for certain arena matches. I had a few good matches. Mostly losses, but no total humiliations. As someone who likes to perform well in my arena matches, I get in alot of practice. I usually do this through BGs. Well...

After doing some BGs and playing against some skilled Rogues, those 5 seconds seem like an ETERNITY!

It's not just that though. Between the age old stun lock tactics, poisons, emergency cooldowns (blind, vanish, prep), deadly throw, and the other tools they have... a well played Rogue is a force I cannot reckon with.

I imagine, that once I step up my resilience and stamina even more, things will start to look up again. I'm only sitting at 9.5k hp and 100+ resilience (not sure of the exact number). Once I reach my desired 11-12k hp and 250-ish resilience, I'm hoping things will change a bit.

However, I feel that we finally have our bane. The Rogue. Warriors, Frost Mages, Shamans, and Hunter can be a pain too, but still doable.

Are you dealing with Rogue better than I? I would love some tips. I'm lucky to have not had to deal with many Rogues in my past arena matches. But, now I'm worried that a future match may come down to my ability to deal with a skilled Rogue.

Is my only hope going to lay in how good my gear becomes? Or are there tactics you guys have that you can tell me about?

BTW, here's my spec. I enjoy it for the Arena, but if you see something wrong with it lemme know. It's a little odd, but I'm getting a feel for some of the talents still. Also testing to see how valuable talents like Mana Feed and Suppression (for fear) might be for an Arena build.

I'm thinking of changing to a hybrid build between Affliction and Demo, to include CoEx and Siphon Life. Not sure yet about that, and how losing some Demo and Destruction talents would effect me. Let me know your input.

Uhm, first, I would express my personal opinion which is that full demo is the least effective of the 3 trees for arena battling.
You cannot put out the quick dps of destruction, nor can you AoE insta-fear, slow down or stop your DoT's from being dispelled (and if your pet gets banished it sucks a lot, AND warlocks and rogues are getting anti-stun trinket next patch, bye-bye life-saving Felguard intercept, we shall miss you).


And about rogues, yes, being prep spec they can be almost invincible to any warlock.
Of course this is why you must have colleagues watching your back in arenas, we are really quite fragile and need people to watch over us so we can do our thing.

Alas, soon rogues, will be weak against destruction due to losing the charm removing effect on the insignia (as will warlocks for the same reason), and since it seems fear will be getting yet another nerf well... maybe you should think about going destruction, before the masses go destro too and the general /cry'ing manages to make blizzard nerf seduction or destruction in any case...

Just a note on why I chose to put most of my points into Demo for this build.

Upon hitting 70, I was Affliction. So, I went into BGs and practice arenas, testing out the talents there and how much I really liked each one. I then tried Destruction, because I'd been wanting to have some serious nuking fun anyway. I tested every talent I could. Now, I'm testing Demo in the arena. Personally, it is the best talent for arena.

No, I can't upload the burst damage that Destruction can. But I also don't rely on large cast times, seduce, or crits to serve my purpose. That is destruction's true weakness. And in any serious arena battle (talk to your local mage), cast times and crit heavy specs don't last long (with exception to Elemental/Resto shammies).

Now, I am testing Demo, and like I said, am thinking of going a hybrid spec Aff/Demo. Some really great PvP talents in there. As far as the instant AoE fear and not getting my DoTs dispelled. Well, contagion really isn't that great without UA. And unless I go 41 Affliction, there's not a huge problem there for me. And about iHoT.. I don't miss it. It was nice every now and then, but any smart arena team won't let fear last more than 2 seconds.

The main reason I like a mostly Demo build for Arena is the survivability. You cannot tank the arena as destruction or affliction. When you get focus fired as Destruction, you die. When you get focus fired as Affliction, you die. When I get focus fired as Demo, in my Stamina and Resilience stacked gear, I survive. One of the main reasons I'm thinking of going partial affliction, is for Siphon Life and CoEx. More survivability means more tanking for me. Most arena teams gun down on Locks first, because they know we have the worst survivability in the arena other than holy/disc priests. The more time they spend beating on me means more time my team spends beating on them. It helps win alot of games.

However, I'm still testing and am not sure exactly what my final build will be.



I really don't like destruction. It's got a nice kick for battlegrounds and world PvP, but for arenas it's not too great. Like I mentioned earlier, I find the cast times and reliance on crits and burst is terrible against a good arena team. They would always shut me down and burn my life away.

I prefer to play a tank/support/CC in the arena. Curses, pet utility (I usually run with felhunter, sometimes felguard), CC spells, healthstones.. all that. I support and survive. And of course, when noone is focusing on me, I can sit there and spit out massive damage as well. I feel it brings more versatility and utility to the table.

TBH, my team would quicky reconsider me for another arcane/frost mage if I specced destruction. They do it much better, and have more survivability (in the arena at least).

That doesn't have anything to do with an arena match coming down to whether or not I have the ability to deal with a Rogue.

My team is great and can deal with any class combo effectively. But there's always those matches where it can come down to having your team CC'd or killed and things get tight.

Yup. He is a great example of what I'm aiming for. Massive stamina, resilience, and the playstyle of a true warlock: CC, debuff, tank ("tank" obviously not really a tank.. not sure how else to explain it). IMO, it's a shame the class has evolved into another DPS class.

However, I'm not sure if I'll be going 41 Demo like him for my final Arena build. The Felguard is AWESOME. Great damage, along with the intercept, but some of the utility lost from going partial Affliction may hurt me too much.

Having CoEx is unexplainable. A spammable snare can really help. On top of that Siphon like ticking on 3-5 people at once adds a huge amount of survivability. Not to mention I usually roll with a Felhunter anyway.

Can't use potions in the Arena, otherwise I would have no problems, lol.

I do usually keep swiftness potions and free-action potions around, among other various potions (limited vulnerability, great escape potions of all kind). I hardly use them, unless it's going to turn the tide of the battle. Like.. when each team has 2 caps in WSG and using some pots could get us the last flag.

Shadowburn. Instant
DeathCoil . Instant
3 seconds of impunity to cast anything...
Immolate, 1.5 seconds, with 70% chance to avoid interruption.
Conflagrate. Instant
Shadowfury. .5 seconds, 70% chance to avoid interruption.
2 seconds of casting Impunity...
Immolate again...
Shadowburn again.
Run away & wait for conflgrate to reset.

What long casts are you speaking of...?

By the way none of that even mentions your pet... If you really feel harassed during casting, Pop your voidwalker for 3k+ Shield, which prevents interruption of your casting.

Personally I'm Demonology right now. & I like it. But I think your confused about PvP'ing as a DestroLock.

You just blew how many shards on one target? Not to mention mana?

rofl

Dose it matter the cost if they are dead?

Unless you're paying his subscription you have no business telling him how to play.

Edited, May 4th 2007 11:34am by pompa

Giving advice is fine, telling someone how they should play is something else.

I didn't say you can't play the Warlock like a pure DPS class, or like a Hunter type style, or pass out healthstones and go AFK if you'd like..

Just telling it how it is. In the Arena, top teams have Warlocks (even though we're the least represented class) for the unique things they can do.. not because we can DPS.