so here is a thread for the discussion of Survival,
My first impression of SV is good, CC is a lot of fun.
and besides that, a horrible PuG, i was the only CC, and they kept breaking it.
as well as that i pulled aggro on Auto shot alone, so i didnt do much damage.
all in all, i like SV, a lot better then MM.
it is a very welcome change for me, and i love CCing mobs ^^
Wyvern sting 1, trap the second and do as much damage as possible on a 3rd mob does need some getting used to.
i'll edit this post when i have had a guild run in an instance, so i can tell what happened to my damage output =P
(my spec last 2 points will go in expose weakness, as that will become a 100% chance after patch.)
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That's a pretty bad build Aethien, but since I can tell you're a good person by your post, I'm willing to help out =P
Imp. Feign Death: This talent is complete ********* I mean, in theory it seems nice. But really, this talent is just too much of a waste and there are much better out there. You can always just clear your target and you FD will have a much higher chance to avoid resistance.
Readiness: We don't have too many hunter abilities with long cooldowns. There are better spots for this talent. And you can always put more points in survival or get Scatter Shot.
Trap Mastery: Seems good, probaly is good, but there are so many better talents I would just drop this.
Master Tactician: I've only heard bad reviews for this, I have nor ever will specc survival, but many say the proc rate is too low to be worth the effect and talent points.
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Now, the talents your missing
Entrapment: Lmao, you don't have this? It's an awesome talent, and ask Theophany, I hear much from him how many times it saved his ***.
Survivalist: 10% more hp is a good thing. Not the best pre-70. But at the end-game, for raiding and PvP you need all the hp you can get.
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Now, for the builds I'd reccomend something like this. Or better, something like this without MT.
On a side note, Surefooted and Imp. Wing Clip are mainly pure PvP talents. So plan accordingly to that.
Imp. Feign Death: This talent is complete ********* I mean, in theory it seems nice. But really, this talent is just too much of a waste and there are much better out there. You can always just clear your target and you FD will have a much higher chance to avoid resistance.
Readiness: We don't have too many hunter abilities with long cooldowns. There are better spots for this talent. And you can always put more points in survival or get Scatter Shot.
Trap Mastery: Seems good, probaly is good, but there are so many better talents I would just drop this.
Master Tactician: I've only heard bad reviews for this, I have nor ever will specc survival, but many say the proc rate is too low to be worth the effect and talent points.
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Now, the talents your missing
Entrapment: Lmao, you don't have this? It's an awesome talent, and ask Theophany, I hear much from him how many times it saved his ***.
Survivalist: 10% more hp is a good thing. Not the best pre-70. But at the end-game, for raiding and PvP you need all the hp you can get.
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Now, for the builds I'd reccomend something like this. Or better, something like this without MT.
On a side note, Surefooted and Imp. Wing Clip are mainly pure PvP talents. So plan accordingly to that.
lol, i linked the wrong build XD
this is better =P
and i am aiming to be able to CC a mob, dont ever want my trap to be resisted.
i pretty much said this to someone else... stupid me for copying the link, not pressing "link this build" =P
Edited, Apr 25th 2007 10:36pm by Aethien
this is better =P
and i am aiming to be able to CC a mob, dont ever want my trap to be resisted.
Quote:
Imp. Feign Death: This talent is complete bullsh*t. I mean, in theory it seems nice. But really, this talent is just too much of a waste and there are much better out there. You can always just clear your target and you FD will have a much higher chance to avoid resistance.
Readiness: We don't have too many hunter abilities with long cooldowns. There are better spots for this talent. And you can always put more points in survival or get Scatter Shot.
Master Tactician: I've only heard bad reviews for this, I have nor ever will specc survival, but many say the proc rate is too low to be worth the effect and talent points.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, the talents your missing
Entrapment: Lmao, you don't have this? It's an awesome talent, and ask Theophany, I hear much from him how many times it saved his ***.
Survivalist: 10% more hp is a good thing. Not the best pre-70. But at the end-game, for raiding and PvP you need all the hp you can get.
Readiness: We don't have too many hunter abilities with long cooldowns. There are better spots for this talent. And you can always put more points in survival or get Scatter Shot.
Master Tactician: I've only heard bad reviews for this, I have nor ever will specc survival, but many say the proc rate is too low to be worth the effect and talent points.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, the talents your missing
Entrapment: Lmao, you don't have this? It's an awesome talent, and ask Theophany, I hear much from him how many times it saved his ***.
Survivalist: 10% more hp is a good thing. Not the best pre-70. But at the end-game, for raiding and PvP you need all the hp you can get.
i pretty much said this to someone else... stupid me for copying the link, not pressing "link this build" =P
Edited, Apr 25th 2007 10:36pm by Aethien
That's better, what's this build for thoug, raiding, PvP, solo, etc?
grouping, and mainlyy trying out SV until i reach 70 =P
A good build, for survival, that is =P
The only thing I'm concerned about is Thrill of the Hunt. In groups or solo you'll pretty much be spamming Steady Shot and mana-efficiency isn't nearly as important in a BG. Assuming you crit with Steady Shot 500 times and normally would go OOM, you'll gain an extra 200 Steady Shots [40% of 500 is 200]. Now, you're not always going to crit, so say you have a 30% crit chance, you'll actually get only another 60 Steady Shots [40% of 500 is 200, and 30% of 200 is 60]. Of course this is only math, but that would be the average numbers and I'm only using Steady Shot since it will probaly be the most widely used shot in raiding/grouping. I would take the points out of here and put them into Efficiency, and take two more points out of another talent to go 5/5 Efficency which will always give you more mana like as if you had 10% more mana in your mana pool per shot.
I still rather have more points in some other place than trap mastery, since I use traps often and none of them have EVER been resisted [no I'm not exagerating]. But, your experience may differ.
The only thing I'm concerned about is Thrill of the Hunt. In groups or solo you'll pretty much be spamming Steady Shot and mana-efficiency isn't nearly as important in a BG. Assuming you crit with Steady Shot 500 times and normally would go OOM, you'll gain an extra 200 Steady Shots [40% of 500 is 200]. Now, you're not always going to crit, so say you have a 30% crit chance, you'll actually get only another 60 Steady Shots [40% of 500 is 200, and 30% of 200 is 60]. Of course this is only math, but that would be the average numbers and I'm only using Steady Shot since it will probaly be the most widely used shot in raiding/grouping. I would take the points out of here and put them into Efficiency, and take two more points out of another talent to go 5/5 Efficency which will always give you more mana like as if you had 10% more mana in your mana pool per shot.
I still rather have more points in some other place than trap mastery, since I use traps often and none of them have EVER been resisted [no I'm not exagerating]. But, your experience may differ.
choosing between 6% less mana cost or 40% regain on a crit, i chose the latter.
simply because it looks more mana effecient to me.
and for the record.. i have lost 15 dps and gained 6.5% crit... for as far as i can tell, i am doing more damage then as MM... and with better Gear SV is supposed to be getting better and better with improved gear.
add to that that i can now eternally trap 1 mob, and cc a second for 12 seconds.
as well as scatter a mob away from a healer and having 10% more health (7.5k now)
* "Kill Command" has been removed from the global cooldown. The shout animation has been removed.
good with a high crit chance, spamming a nice extra dmg attack for your pet is great.
* "Expose Weakness": The chance for this talent to trigger has increased to 33/66/100% chance at 1/2/3 talent points.
100% chance to add a good extra amount of AP for every physical attack now.
with high crit chance, you can and will keep it up pretty much all the time.
simply because it looks more mana effecient to me.
and for the record.. i have lost 15 dps and gained 6.5% crit... for as far as i can tell, i am doing more damage then as MM... and with better Gear SV is supposed to be getting better and better with improved gear.
add to that that i can now eternally trap 1 mob, and cc a second for 12 seconds.
as well as scatter a mob away from a healer and having 10% more health (7.5k now)
* "Kill Command" has been removed from the global cooldown. The shout animation has been removed.
good with a high crit chance, spamming a nice extra dmg attack for your pet is great.
* "Expose Weakness": The chance for this talent to trigger has increased to 33/66/100% chance at 1/2/3 talent points.
100% chance to add a good extra amount of AP for every physical attack now.
with high crit chance, you can and will keep it up pretty much all the time.
I just switched to survival last night, because I think its the least used tree :P
I'm only level 43, but here's mine:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=VZZ0GhGkfMhVzh
just, you know, in case anyone cared. I didn't feel the other things were worth doing. I'll probably put some points into resourcefulness, and at higher levels I think MM, but maybe MB, not sure. I do miss scatter shot, but I like BM a lot too.
I'm only level 43, but here's mine:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=VZZ0GhGkfMhVzh
just, you know, in case anyone cared. I didn't feel the other things were worth doing. I'll probably put some points into resourcefulness, and at higher levels I think MM, but maybe MB, not sure. I do miss scatter shot, but I like BM a lot too.
from what Theophany said, you need 500 agi for SV to be better then MM.
i am (if i am correct) at 4xx agi, and some better gear waiting for me.
edit: 486 agi.
improved gear would get me around 15-30 more agi at 70...
and i have some gear that is really outdated...
Edited, Apr 25th 2007 11:39pm by Aethien
i am (if i am correct) at 4xx agi, and some better gear waiting for me.
edit: 486 agi.
improved gear would get me around 15-30 more agi at 70...
and i have some gear that is really outdated...
Edited, Apr 25th 2007 11:39pm by Aethien
Yeah, but the agility is for DPS purposes, I think to make the LR worth it. Surv gets different bonuses, like to traps, crit chance, etc, that make it worth it for other things than just DPS.
infinite CC (as long as there isnt an ******* who breaks the trap)
My current build is heavy survival and i love it, my build, i love pvp and the build in general just works decently for arena and bgs. My gear needs some work (only 28ish crit, and my enchants all help a marks build more). Before you give me flak about the mana effiency stuff, occasionally i fill in for raids and without some mana back i just oom. I'm glad EW is worth having now, sad that hunters are getting the nerf bat in pvp yet again
This is kind of an ancillary comment, since I've never speced so deep into SV to really get a feel for how it plays.
From your comments about your gear I'll assume that you haven't won any Beast Lord armor yet. You can save 3 Talent points by not buying Resourcefulness, those three points won't impact your build in any other way (i.e. they aren't needed to buy your Tier 7 Talents). I have only a single piece of Beast Lord armor at present, so I can't state this with certainty, but historically set bonuses did not stack with Talent bonuses. Two pieces of Beast Lord gives you "Reduces the cooldown on your traps by - 4 sec." While not the same as 6 seconds, I'd be hesitant about spending 3 Talents for those 2 additional seconds.
From your comments about your gear I'll assume that you haven't won any Beast Lord armor yet. You can save 3 Talent points by not buying Resourcefulness, those three points won't impact your build in any other way (i.e. they aren't needed to buy your Tier 7 Talents). I have only a single piece of Beast Lord armor at present, so I can't state this with certainty, but historically set bonuses did not stack with Talent bonuses. Two pieces of Beast Lord gives you "Reduces the cooldown on your traps by - 4 sec." While not the same as 6 seconds, I'd be hesitant about spending 3 Talents for those 2 additional seconds.
Long term MM who spec'ed BM from 60-70 and then back to MM for raiding.
So...Never been Surv (be gentle here).
Raid build (in Kara currently):
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/hunter/talents.html?0500000000000000000000550201205010000000033200502500300300501300
Scatter Shot, +15% health, extended trap duration.
Really was interested in Readiness, but hearing buzz thats its not all that great...whats the deal here?
Thoughts on the rest?
Cheers!
So...Never been Surv (be gentle here).
Raid build (in Kara currently):
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/hunter/talents.html?0500000000000000000000550201205010000000033200502500300300501300
Scatter Shot, +15% health, extended trap duration.
Really was interested in Readiness, but hearing buzz thats its not all that great...whats the deal here?
Thoughts on the rest?
Cheers!
entrapment and the other trap talents are what you get SV for, being able to endlessly CC a mob without a problem, almost equal to a mage's polymorph.
that, and a high crit rate =P
and loads and loads of agility help you too (currently i have 596 agility, unbuffed)
edit: and that gives me 23.95% crit, though i am not very well geared. crit will hopefully rise o and beyond 30% while maintaining good steady dps.
Edited, Apr 29th 2007 3:18pm by Aethien
that, and a high crit rate =P
and loads and loads of agility help you too (currently i have 596 agility, unbuffed)
edit: and that gives me 23.95% crit, though i am not very well geared. crit will hopefully rise o and beyond 30% while maintaining good steady dps.
Edited, Apr 29th 2007 3:18pm by Aethien
Kompera wrote:
This is kind of an ancillary comment, since I've never speced so deep into SV to really get a feel for how it plays.
From your comments about your gear I'll assume that you haven't won any Beast Lord armor yet. You can save 3 Talent points by not buying Resourcefulness, those three points won't impact your build in any other way (i.e. they aren't needed to buy your Tier 7 Talents). I have only a single piece of Beast Lord armor at present, so I can't state this with certainty, but historically set bonuses did not stack with Talent bonuses. Two pieces of Beast Lord gives you "Reduces the cooldown on your traps by - 4 sec." While not the same as 6 seconds, I'd be hesitant about spending 3 Talents for those 2 additional seconds.
From your comments about your gear I'll assume that you haven't won any Beast Lord armor yet. You can save 3 Talent points by not buying Resourcefulness, those three points won't impact your build in any other way (i.e. they aren't needed to buy your Tier 7 Talents). I have only a single piece of Beast Lord armor at present, so I can't state this with certainty, but historically set bonuses did not stack with Talent bonuses. Two pieces of Beast Lord gives you "Reduces the cooldown on your traps by - 4 sec." While not the same as 6 seconds, I'd be hesitant about spending 3 Talents for those 2 additional seconds.
Thing is i'm actually past beast lord. I'm a pvper
edit: Unless you're talking to the op
Either way you'll need those talents when you do go past beastlord. Yes beastlord is nice, but it's garbage when you specialize certain slots. For example thick netherscale breastplate ( and epic crafter piece) is argueably the best chest in the game till around SSC.
Edited, Apr 30th 2007 12:32am by Quinz
Quote:
On a side note, Surefooted and Imp. Wing Clip are mainly pure PvP talents. So plan accordingly to that.
I disagree with this statement from the first reply. At level 70, it takes a lot of hit rating to equate to a flat +3% chance to hit. The added stun resist is nice in pve as well...when you're running from mobs...I notice I get dazed a lot less with 3/3 surefooted.
Imp wing clip...I don't understand why you wouldn't want this if you're going past the first tier of the survival tree. Well, let me put this another way...if your play style is to avoid aggro at all costs (i.e. never risk the big crits, never pull mobs off the healer, never do anything but MT assist) then sure, you may not have much use for this, but hell, you might as well be a brainless marks spec. This talent is the essence of the survival tree, IMO.
Just my 2c.
Yeah I'm not liking imp wing clip, mainly b/c it's a proc and I don't like procs. It's kind of like spirit bond for those BM hunters, I think.
Nibbrah wrote:
Well, let me put this another way...if your play style is to avoid aggro at all costs (i.e. never risk the big crits, never pull mobs off the healer, never do anything but MT assist) then sure, you may not have much use for this[...]
the only use for imp. wing clip i can see is giving a druid time to ress the tank while kiting a mob around.
and well, that can be done just as easy without it (if the mob is even CCable...)
the problem with survival is the lack of good things in the beginning, and a good ending.
most stuff in the middle to end are good,
guess what i am farming/leveling my LW for?
yes indeed, the epic chestpiece.
and once i have those beastlord pieces, i will most probably start raiding, so i think i wont have them for that long, at least not long enough to justify 2 respecs.
and besides that, my traps last 26 seconds, having a cooldown that is equal to that guarantees good CC.
else i will have a mob beating on me for a few seconds, and that can kill me.
(even though i have 8k hp)
and well, that can be done just as easy without it (if the mob is even CCable...)
the problem with survival is the lack of good things in the beginning, and a good ending.
most stuff in the middle to end are good,
Quinz wrote:
Thing is i'm actually past beast lord. I'm a pvper
edit: Unless you're talking to the op
Either way you'll need those talents when you do go past beastlord. Yes beastlord is nice, but it's garbage when you specialize certain slots. For example thick netherscale breastplate ( and epic crafter piece) is argueably the best chest in the game till around SSC.
edit: Unless you're talking to the op
Either way you'll need those talents when you do go past beastlord. Yes beastlord is nice, but it's garbage when you specialize certain slots. For example thick netherscale breastplate ( and epic crafter piece) is argueably the best chest in the game till around SSC.
guess what i am farming/leveling my LW for?
yes indeed, the epic chestpiece.
and once i have those beastlord pieces, i will most probably start raiding, so i think i wont have them for that long, at least not long enough to justify 2 respecs.
and besides that, my traps last 26 seconds, having a cooldown that is equal to that guarantees good CC.
else i will have a mob beating on me for a few seconds, and that can kill me.
(even though i have 8k hp)
eh, you'll have them until something good drops. Sadly i wish i hadn't taken my demon stalker piece yet. It's garbage when compared to other pieces... and the set bonus isn't worth stat minus's
your not saying that beastlord is better then t4 now are you?
Aethien wrote:
your not saying that beastlord is better then t4 now are you?
Comparing straight bonus's i'd say i'd rather have the 2 piece of beastlord. I do believe it's the hands that are better then t4, i could be wrong been a long day. Until the patch hits blues are very close to epics. Even if they are better it's usually by only a few stats
Quote:
Yes beastlord is nice, but it's garbage when you specialize certain slots.
Quote:
The goal of a successful raid is to have all of the damage focused on one member, the Tank, who has a high mitigation to reduce that damage to a level which the Healer(s) can more easily heal. So, yes, the "play style" of every Hunter should be to avoid aggro at all costs.
This is raid hunter 101, and it reflects a happy, ideal situation. Everyone knows this. What I'm saying is that things like imp wing clip and surefooted help deal with situations that aren't so perfect.
Quote:
Justifying the risk of pulling aggro off of the Tank by claiming that you'll be able to pull aggro off of the Healers (which is the Tank's job, not yours) is frankly the sign of a poor raid member.
So you're going to stand there while the healer is getting eaten and the tank is distracted or busy with something else? That's a poor raid member. Hunters have aggro controlling abilities for a reason. Distracting shot, raptor/WC, kite until MT/offtank regains aggro and FD/disengage. Learn to use everything in your toolbox in case the fight takes a wrong turn.
Yes, avoid aggro. But not at the cost of the lives of the cloth wearers.
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