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Cheap Tricks (no pun intended)Follow

#1 Apr 17 2007 at 7:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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After having to show a few rogue friends of mine the following techniques, I thought it would be a good idea to post them here. These are little cheap tricks the rogue class has but aren't abilities. For best results, use with a mutilate build.

Distract

Use on: Runners or terrible kiters (requires 5 seconds of no offensive action taken/received i.e. drop combat).
Ideal Use: Flaggers hauling *** out of a room that are just out of range of blind.

Technique: Surprisingly, not a lot of rogues know about this ability. You should keep distract hot keyed, as if you and the person you're chasing drop combat you can throw distract at them. This causes them to look where you threw it for just a second, but that little pause is long enough for you to get within blind/shiv range. Edit: Although I never said it, it's what I meant. You can use this ability outside of stealth or even while you're in combat. Your target just cannot be in combat.

Defense: If you're running from a group of people that aren't quite able to catch you (i.e. another rogue or some oom mage), throw a distract behind you. This will give you the extra second or so lead you need to get away (although you honestly shouldn't be flagging anyway).

The Rogue Killer

Use on: Rogues who you got the opening move on.
Ideal Use on: Subtlety Rogues, Higher level Rogues or Rogues with extremely better gear.
Requirements: Crippling Poison.

Technique: This technique yields a 95% victory rate. Upon successfully landing the "first shot" on an enemy rogue (cheap shot usually), proceed with the stunlock as normal: CS -> Mutilate -> KS -> Mutilate. Instead of using your built up combo points for an evis, use rupture and run away. The target will more than likely be crippled, and you'll be outside of melee range. Continue to run from them. As long as you keep running, they have no hope to catch you unless they pop sprint, whereas they're going to be very low on energy when they reach you (i.e. for them to reach you they have to use Cloak AND Sprint), so they're still at a tremendous disadvantage. Once combat drops (and it will), restealth. Your enemy cannot do the same and will basically be a sitting duck. Throw a distract at him if he starts to run and either finish him off with ambush or begin stunlocking again, depending on how much hurt you layed on him. Extremely effective against enemy rogues (as said before, yields a 95% victory rate. Only pots or extreme luck can cause you to lose).

Defense: Hope the other guy leaves a hole in his stunlock just long enough for you to vanish and put him in one. If a rogue performs this technique accurately, you have no chance of defeating him. In other words, the best defense is to make sure you always get the first shot.

Blind Extended Stunlock

Use on: Any class without a pet or a class currently absent of a pet.
Ideal Use: Shamans, Druids, Rogues, Priests, Battle/Defensive Stance Warriors.
Requirements: Blind, Imp Sap (note, this will be facilitated by the implementation of the new "Dirty Tricks" ability).

Technique: Start your fight as you would always. CS -> Mutilate -> KS -> Mutilate. Instead of throwing off eviscerate, use blind. Wait for the five seconds necessary to drop combat to pass (standing right next to your target) and quickly stealth then sap. Wait for energy and stun timers to reset (around 7 seconds or so) and restart your stunlock. This ends up being close to a 35 second stunlock, without the opponent ever once moving (although they will regain some HP when combat is dropped and they're in stealth). No class, not even a prot warrior in defensive stance, can survive this. The only reason why it isn't very good on warriors is that the ability berserker rage can break sap and ***** things up for you. This ability is only usable (I believe) in Berserker Stance however, so if the warrior isn't in it he's susceptible. This ability does not work on pet classes, as the pet will still be hammering on you and preventing you from dropping combat.

Defense: Most rogues won't use this tactic on other rogues, as the Rogue Killer is much faster and just as effective. However, this technique when done correctly prevents you from moving for at least 30 seconds, meaning that you will be very lucky indeed to ever have a chance of moving.

Cripple Kiting

Use on: Warriors
Ideal on: Stupid Warriors (they'll let you restealth. A good one won't, but it's still an effective tactic).

Requirements: Crippling Poison (obviously).

Technique: In between stuns, use your crippling poison to "kite" the warrior. This keeps you out of his 2k+ white damage. You must back up far enough to where he cannot hit you, but not far enough as to where he can intercept. It's always better to err on the side of melee than intercept (take note). On stupid warriors, you can even restealth and get a cheap shot off. Good ones won't let you drop combat, but there aren't really alot of good warriors.

Defense: You'll never have to worry about another rogue using this on you. The rogue killer will be far more prevalent.

Hopefully these will help some of you struggling with certain classes. Feel free to add your own "cheap trick".

Edited, Apr 19th 2007 10:15am by Shaolinz
#2 Apr 18 2007 at 12:12 AM Rating: Decent
Seems like you're a fellow mutilate rogue, so I'll just add my two cents.
For the rogue killer, and the warrior-kiting, how would you feel about Deadly Poison on the MH, Crippling on the OH? Never have I gotten past the CS - Mutilate - KS - Mutilate and not had at least 4 doses of Deadly and the Crippling poison applied, throw up a rupture and that's some nasty DoT right there. It's a technique I like to call 'rogue-warlocking,' or 'affliction-rogueing' that I developed during those safari quests in Nagrand solely to keep myself entertained. I have 4/5 Imp Poisons, 5/5 Vile Poisons, so it makes Envenom my finisher of choice over Eviscerate.
And I've found a few people aren't expecting Deadly Throw to mess up their run speed, so maybe add that to the Distract/Blind ******* of things to do when the target's out of range?
#3 Apr 18 2007 at 2:09 AM Rating: Decent
very nice :) since i got to STV (lvl 30 and more) i always use distract :D 90% of ppl is soo stupid that i can easily do distract > CS :D

PS: my main is a priest, so i dont think so that my rogue skills are at least good...
#4 Apr 18 2007 at 5:16 AM Rating: Decent
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My only qualm with deadly poison is it's only situationally useful, where in most other cases its destructive. I.e., deadly poison = no blinding, gouging or sapping. You can control when to use rupture, which is what makes it viable. Having no control over deadly though is just annoying.

#5 Apr 18 2007 at 6:17 AM Rating: Decent
Terrorfiend
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Shaolinz wrote:


Technique: Start your fight as you would always. CS -> Mutilate -> KS -> Mutilate. Instead of throwing off eviscerate, use blind. Wait for the five seconds necessary to drop combat to pass (standing right next to your target) and quickly stealth then sap. Wait for energy and stun timers to reset (around 7 seconds or so) and restart your stunlock. This ends up being close to a 35 second stunlock, without the opponent ever once moving (although they will regain some HP when combat is dropped and they're in stealth). No class, not even a prot warrior in defensive stance, can survive this. The only reason why it isn't very good on warriors is that the ability berserker rage can break sap and ***** things up for you. This ability is only usable (I believe) in Berserker Stance however, so if the warrior isn't in it he's susceptible. This ability does not work on pet classes, as the pet will still be hammering on you and preventing you from dropping combat.


I actually have never considered that... Blind+Sap.

Rateup for that part alone. Rest of the writeup is good too.
#6 Apr 18 2007 at 6:20 AM Rating: Decent
OMG thanks man
i never thought i can distract in pvp....
even 1sec of not moving and looking in direction i say gives me so many options...
Thanks
#7 Apr 18 2007 at 7:48 AM Rating: Decent
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very nice!

i wouldn't mind a sticky
#8 Apr 18 2007 at 7:58 AM Rating: Good
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14,189 posts
Awesome post, I love the Rogue Killer :)

Also, if done right (on most players), Distract won't only gain you a one second advantage.. seeing as how the Distractee will actually run in the direction of the "poof."

I use it all the time in WSG, I pretty much always stay on D. If a Flag Grabber somehow manages to get away from me, I pop a Sprint; Distract half way between me and Flag Guy = Flag guy running straight into my open arms :D

It always works because most people just aren't used to it and aren't able to react quickly at all.
#9 Apr 18 2007 at 10:06 AM Rating: Decent
let me know if i am missing something. there is a small loophole in your rogue killer strat. usually when other rogue gets the opening, i am ready to blind him/her the very first chance i got. so, if you rupture me and run, you better be sure you give yourself enough time to get out of my blind range before KS is up. if not, i will blind you, rendering you useless for the next 10 secs or so. granted i cannot restealth but i can always use vanish + immediate cheap shot to get an opener on you.

yes, i know on paper we can go back and forth about how to counter your strat and how to counter mine. thats not what i want. my only intention is to throw this possible loophole out in the open.

as for me, if i get the opening, i usually use blind or if possible gouge to restealth and finish the job (if he is not dead).
#10 Apr 18 2007 at 7:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
let me know if i am missing something. there is a small loophole in your rogue killer strat. usually when other rogue gets the opening, i am ready to blind him/her the very first chance i got. so, if you rupture me and run, you better be sure you give yourself enough time to get out of my blind range before KS is up. if not, i will blind you, rendering you useless for the next 10 secs or so. granted i cannot restealth but i can always use vanish + immediate cheap shot to get an opener on you.

yes, i know on paper we can go back and forth about how to counter your strat and how to counter mine. thats not what i want. my only intention is to throw this possible loophole out in the open.

as for me, if i get the opening, i usually use blind or if possible gouge to restealth and finish the job (if he is not dead).


And what's to prevent me from doing the same to you? The rupture protects from being blinded very simply: the person has a dot on them. They can't regain hp, meaning all their blind does is give them a chance to start the fight back (you won't even really need to vanish if you time it right, just stand next, stealth and hit). Either way, they probably won't be able to kill you before you come out of stunlock, and then you have blind up still whereas they no longer do. Either way you look at it, you're going to win unless they way outgear you.

It's better than the alternative of using eviscerate, having them blind you, then them bandaging up to full before stunlocking you down. Think about it.
#11 Apr 18 2007 at 11:49 PM Rating: Decent
I just wanted to add my 2 cents to this 95% victory rate "Rogue killer". Its a good idea to blind the guy just after he reptured you and just sprint away if you are low on health. 1 point repture is not that big deal.
My rogue has 7,6k hp on lvl 70 and i didnt even collected all assasination set yet so 2 mutilates wont kill me so I assume they wont kill you too. So just blind and you will ruduce the victory ratio to 50%.
#12 Apr 19 2007 at 5:49 AM Rating: Decent
I just wanted to comment one the distract'ing. I dont know im im just dumb, or if i dont pay attention. But about 6 months ago i was pvping and wanted to bind distract to a key for easy use. while running after someone i accidently hit the hot button and discovered that you can use distract outside of stealth. Im not sure if anyone else didnt know that lol, but i guess i just assumed you couldnt since the only time, pve, its viable to use really is when you are stealthed.
#13 Apr 19 2007 at 6:10 AM Rating: Decent
like i said, i just want to expose a possible loophole that might reduce your 95% victory rate. if i am not mistaken, in general, if a rogue doesnt get the opening in any fight, the success rate goes down. i am not implying your rogue killer strat sucks, but when my rogue opponent blinded me, i am giving him a chance to turn the tide around... especially a good sub stunlocking rogue or higher lvl rogues you suggested in your post.

i dont use evis unless i know it will kill them. more often than not i use blind after mutilate (right before KS wears off). that gives them a smaller room to have the chance to fight back.

in fact, your blind + sap strat is more fool proof. yes, it takes longer but at least you have a lot more control. besides, you have more time to do all kinds of insulting emotes while your opponent can only stare at his/her comp screen. :)




#14 Apr 19 2007 at 7:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Well, Rogue Killer is mainly designed for "get it over with". Rogues are very easy to defeat once you've gotten the first shot, but eviscerating them gives them a chance to not only live but blind/bandage. Rupturing them almost guarantees they'll live (and it won't be one point, with any decent mutilate build it will be 3-4 points), but also guarantees they won't be able to bandage even after a blinding. They won't be able to vanish for very long either, but they'll still be able to time the ticks, stealth and stunlock. The point is however that if you survive you still have blind up to do the same thing to them, and since your stunlock went first, you win.

Plus, sprinting and running from the fight means the rogue that made you sprint and run won, proving my 95% success rate.

And throwing distract outside of stealth is what I meant bro. Read it ^^

#15 Apr 19 2007 at 8:12 AM Rating: Decent
Oh, dont get me wrong, i knew you were talking about out of stealth, but i just wanted to let people that were silly enough like me to not know it was possible. Before i found out how to do that, i would stealth, distract and unstealth, which really did nothing lol. :-p
#16 Apr 19 2007 at 9:02 AM Rating: Decent
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As far as I remember, Distract isn't a non-combat only move. I remember more than once catching runners/FC's in pvp with it as they try to run away from me. I might be crazy, though.. : \

Edited, Apr 19th 2007 11:05am by Banatu
#17 Apr 19 2007 at 11:12 AM Rating: Decent
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3,011 posts
For distract to work your opponent has to be out of combat, not necessarily you. (Rogues in a 5 man can distract pats while dps'n down adds if the pats are coming too close. Gives your team that little extra time to react).
#18 Apr 26 2007 at 5:09 PM Rating: Decent
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>_>
#19 Apr 27 2007 at 8:26 AM Rating: Decent
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nice shameless bump :p
#20 Apr 27 2007 at 8:46 AM Rating: Default
I've been using these tricks since I was in my mid 30's after I got access to all my rogue skills rofl :D

but yeah nothing really beats restealthing on warriors, since them demo shouting won't actually keep you in combat
#21 May 06 2007 at 8:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Demo Shout will keep you in combat.
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