Awesome lock fight post by Xiemage, I never considered polying the dude for the sake of that 1st chill
Edited, May 1st 2007 2:18pm by Aqueminai
·Theme
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Mage pvp what classes are hard for a mage and how to counter
Mage pvp what classes are hard for a mage and how to counterFollow
as with every complex system, there's an answer which is easy, neat and wrong.
find out where the punctuation keys are. and then stop posting *********
it's hard for me to blieve you've ever fought a decently geared hunter of ANY skill level before. mages of any sort get destroyed by hunters of any variety.
you completely ignore all limitations in order to make a meaningless list of mage abilities... ice lance requires a target to be frozen before it can deal useful amounts of damage. fireblast has a cooldown. freeze effects are on diminishing returns. so your "three back-to-back" frost novas are a major waste unless you have a serious opportunity where you're certain you can shatter those last two. that coldsnap is better used on ice block and ice barrier -- it's only coincidence that frost nova is refreshed as well. in regard to mana cost... do you happen to KNOW how much fireblast costs? it's certainly not our cheapest, and is not a frostie's best friend >66. that said, any mage is hard pressed to run oom in a pvp fight -- there's simply very little time in which to spend that much mana! there's one very important little trick in the hunters' bag that isn't in a frost mage's: bandage. if you sheep that hunter to bandage yourself, you've just fullhealed him. trap and scatter shot = bandage for hunter, not for you.
in absolutely every case, the hunter controls the flow of his fight with a mage. sure mages can kite, but it doesn't do them any good when they're the ones being kited.
Quote:
must be garbage if u cant beat every class as a mage im a lvl 60 dranei frost spec'd mage and i can kill any class hands down the hardest being bm hunters if but u just got to use ur elemental and ice block its *key* get in dead zone try to lock the pet down as well as the hunter himself and fire the frost bolt from the deadzone look me up if ur 60 or around the level and whisper me im in altar of storms server whisper MikeHoncho if u think u can beat my 60 frosty :)
find out where the punctuation keys are. and then stop posting *********
Quote:
I'm inclined to disagree with some of the hunter class glory-hounding here. They can be tough if they're good, but so can all classes. Druids can heal and shift, warlocks can spam fear & those dots and soul fire crits can get nasty, rogues have cloak of shadows (sonovabitch i hate it when they know how to use it), but the beauty of the frost tree is its survivability, see Eatingualive's post earlier. Remember, a frosty mage with a full clip has 4 novas at his disposal, 3 of which are usable back-to-back-to-back. With ice lance alone, an insta-cast, critting 3 times for 1700-2000 dmg per, do the math. Coupled with the elem blasting away, fire blast (another insta cast), and AE (a third insta), I dare a hunter to hold a candle to the kind of barrage he's in for, traps or no (assuming i'm dumb enough to walk over one). With regard to a frost mage being without mana, keep in mind the low mana cost of the spells we're discussing here. A frost mage will have mana to spare when he's done with you. Again I think, all things being equal, the frost mage just has the deeper bag of tricks. Maybe there's something I'm not thinking of 60+ for a hunter, I'm willing to learn. 60 frost mage vs 60 hunter, tho, if I had to pick a horse, I'd back the frosty in every race.
it's hard for me to blieve you've ever fought a decently geared hunter of ANY skill level before. mages of any sort get destroyed by hunters of any variety.
you completely ignore all limitations in order to make a meaningless list of mage abilities... ice lance requires a target to be frozen before it can deal useful amounts of damage. fireblast has a cooldown. freeze effects are on diminishing returns. so your "three back-to-back" frost novas are a major waste unless you have a serious opportunity where you're certain you can shatter those last two. that coldsnap is better used on ice block and ice barrier -- it's only coincidence that frost nova is refreshed as well. in regard to mana cost... do you happen to KNOW how much fireblast costs? it's certainly not our cheapest, and is not a frostie's best friend >66. that said, any mage is hard pressed to run oom in a pvp fight -- there's simply very little time in which to spend that much mana! there's one very important little trick in the hunters' bag that isn't in a frost mage's: bandage. if you sheep that hunter to bandage yourself, you've just fullhealed him. trap and scatter shot = bandage for hunter, not for you.
in absolutely every case, the hunter controls the flow of his fight with a mage. sure mages can kite, but it doesn't do them any good when they're the ones being kited.
It seems to me fractal, that you are one of the mages that whine about hunters and locks rather than fight hunters and lock. When you see a hunter do you /dance? I could be wrong, and in fact I hope I am, but rather than whine on the forums about how OP hunters are over mages...read the name of the thread. Mage pvp-what classes are HARD for a mage and how to COUNTER. Not what classes are hard for a mage and watch me whine about it.
So scatter takes me for what? 4 seconds? I'm not taking anything in that time due to my IB. Frost nova does have DR but as I stated you only worry about one hit with that nova. People lose sight of the fact that a hunter is two characters. Take away one half of any character in the game and guess what? You win.
Nobody is unbeatable. PvP can be hard and I know that is hard to accept for some people due to how easy this game is through most PvE. That doesn't mean
roll over and die.
*edit As for being oom, if I have to kill a hunter twice because he bandaged and I'm taking a mana drain shot I would most def. watch my mana.
Edited, May 3rd 2007 7:03pm by Xiemage
Quote:
if you sheep that hunter to bandage yourself, you've just fullhealed him. trap and scatter shot = bandage for hunter, not for you.
So scatter takes me for what? 4 seconds? I'm not taking anything in that time due to my IB. Frost nova does have DR but as I stated you only worry about one hit with that nova. People lose sight of the fact that a hunter is two characters. Take away one half of any character in the game and guess what? You win.
Nobody is unbeatable. PvP can be hard and I know that is hard to accept for some people due to how easy this game is through most PvE. That doesn't mean
roll over and die.
*edit As for being oom, if I have to kill a hunter twice because he bandaged and I'm taking a mana drain shot I would most def. watch my mana.
Edited, May 3rd 2007 7:03pm by Xiemage
everybody is talking about the hunter's dead zone as if they don't know what scatter shot is.
also you all seem to fight survival-specced hunters because the ones i fight use silencing shot and the beast within thus making your precious soon-to-be-even-more-nerfed Frost Nova moot.
also you all seem to fight survival-specced hunters because the ones i fight use silencing shot and the beast within thus making your precious soon-to-be-even-more-nerfed Frost Nova moot.
Xiemage, with all due respect, duels represent an almost entirely different classification of PvP. Rules and boundaries are in place, and both classes know what's happening and have time to prepare. What you're saying may work there, but in BG's and world PvP, duel knowledge is almost, if not completely, useless.
Hunters have no greater shortage of tools than Mages do regardless of spec. You can chill them, freeze them, Poly them? Well, that's just super. They can sleep you, drain your mana, stun you, silence you, confuse you, their pet will continuously set back your cast bar unless/until you deal with it... Oh yes, and if they're 41 points into the BM tree they are completely immune to everything you can do.
At the end of the day, the bottom line is this: They will have you dead several times over before you can do the same to them, and the reason Hunters beat Mages in this regard is because you have absolutely no way to escape their tremendous single-target, ranged, physical DPS output. Basically, you lose a damage race. Hunters may lack your defensive tools (other than Freeze Trap, which, if you hit that, congratulations, the Hunter's just bandaged to full health), but this battle is so lopsided that all your barriers are really just delaying the inevitable.
All the he-does, you-do theorycrafting in the world isn't going to change that.
Edited, May 4th 2007 1:09pm by Gaudion
Hunters have no greater shortage of tools than Mages do regardless of spec. You can chill them, freeze them, Poly them? Well, that's just super. They can sleep you, drain your mana, stun you, silence you, confuse you, their pet will continuously set back your cast bar unless/until you deal with it... Oh yes, and if they're 41 points into the BM tree they are completely immune to everything you can do.
At the end of the day, the bottom line is this: They will have you dead several times over before you can do the same to them, and the reason Hunters beat Mages in this regard is because you have absolutely no way to escape their tremendous single-target, ranged, physical DPS output. Basically, you lose a damage race. Hunters may lack your defensive tools (other than Freeze Trap, which, if you hit that, congratulations, the Hunter's just bandaged to full health), but this battle is so lopsided that all your barriers are really just delaying the inevitable.
All the he-does, you-do theorycrafting in the world isn't going to change that.
Edited, May 4th 2007 1:09pm by Gaudion
Quote:
At the end of the day, the bottom line is this: They will have you dead several times over before you can do the same to them, and the reason Hunters beat Mages in this regard is because you have absolutely no way to escape their tremendous single-target, ranged
Right, I did post a guide for duels. And I do understand that hunters will beat mages in world pvp many times over. The point I was trying to make to frac (same one I am going to reword now) is regardless of whether a hunter can beat you over and over, the name of the post is how to counter. Not how to roll over and die. I posted what works the best for me. I did not post how hunters will rolfpwn mages everytime. Instead I focused on the OPers question and tried to answer it to the best of my ability. BW hunters will pwn me just about everytime and I understand this, I was just trying to give as much help to the OP as possible.
Xiemage wrote:
Right, I did post a guide for duels. And I do understand that hunters will beat mages in world pvp many times over. The point I was trying to make to frac (same one I am going to reword now) is regardless of whether a hunter can beat you over and over, the name of the post is how to counter. Not how to roll over and die. I posted what works the best for me. I did not post how hunters will rolfpwn mages everytime. Instead I focused on the OPers question and tried to answer it to the best of my ability. BW hunters will pwn me just about everytime and I understand this, I was just trying to give as much help to the OP as possible.
That's fine, then. I just misunderstood your post as it sounded a lot like many of the others in this thread that are claiming Hunters are easy victories for Mages. My mistake.
31 posts
And about hunters... I think this works (especially in BGs) try polymorphing the pet.
Oh it does wonders till round 60-70 BW hunters. Then not so much. Earlier though, (I.G. 20-say...50ish) I don't lose to hunters often. Fighting half a toon=mage winning. Fighting a toon that can walk through almost everything you toss at him = mage winning not so much.
sheeping the pet might make em pop their IWIN button earlier. This is a little bit of a strange one but if u can stay alive while he tries to bash ur head in while powered up he will become quite ordinary after it wears off. one more thing, its not like they are almost undamagable (CLoS is worse and i lived through some rogues going all CLoS on me). They also take more damage in this time.... after a while, i think with enough stamina and resilience you can overcome BM hunters (esp 1 on 1).
Surv/Marksman hunters are an entirely different kettle of fish, entrapment is bad news for a lot of classes at this moment. Used well, they are good fights against mages and will always provide a challenge with or without cooldowns up.
Surv/Marksman hunters are an entirely different kettle of fish, entrapment is bad news for a lot of classes at this moment. Used well, they are good fights against mages and will always provide a challenge with or without cooldowns up.
Quote:
sheeping the pet might make em pop their IWIN button earlier
Which is good. Forced plays means that you took them off there strat and if someone makes a mistake because of it you can capitalize.
Hi all, MM hunter here, thought I'd butt in and give my 2 pence.
Hunter vs mage fights are pretty situational. The main thing I find with mages is that skill plays a huge part in how good they are. I have a 62 mage, who I used to BG with at 50-59 for a very long time, and I consider myself a good mage and very good hunter.
I notice that a lot of people in the thread have left out arena. While hunters are very good in 1v1 pvp (I dont have much difficulty with any class, world pvp or duel), we really are one of, if not the weakest class in arena. For a hunter, range and staying at range are what makes a truly good pvper, and because of arenas limited size and pillars to avoid line of sight, we become gimped unless we lure the other team to play by our rules - something which rarely happens. Mages on the other hand are one of the best classes for arena. They get their cooldowns every fight, they have powerful crowd control (frost nova, sheep, counterspell), insane burst damage, and ice block on top of that if they start to die. The number of times I've lost an arena game due to my class is incredibly frustrating.
The reason why Ice block is having hypothermia added is because it was overpowered in arena, simple as that. Blizzard care very little about 1v1 pvp as no rewards are gained from it. On the other hand, many people play solely for arena so they're trying to balance that. Unfortunately, there is little that can be done to rectify the hunter class in arena so it will probably always stay gimped unless they introduce a wide, open arena.
I'm levelling my mage right now simply because its better in arena. In 1v1 pvp, a mage has every tool they need to beat any class, its just a question of how well they use it.
Hunter vs mage fights are pretty situational. The main thing I find with mages is that skill plays a huge part in how good they are. I have a 62 mage, who I used to BG with at 50-59 for a very long time, and I consider myself a good mage and very good hunter.
I notice that a lot of people in the thread have left out arena. While hunters are very good in 1v1 pvp (I dont have much difficulty with any class, world pvp or duel), we really are one of, if not the weakest class in arena. For a hunter, range and staying at range are what makes a truly good pvper, and because of arenas limited size and pillars to avoid line of sight, we become gimped unless we lure the other team to play by our rules - something which rarely happens. Mages on the other hand are one of the best classes for arena. They get their cooldowns every fight, they have powerful crowd control (frost nova, sheep, counterspell), insane burst damage, and ice block on top of that if they start to die. The number of times I've lost an arena game due to my class is incredibly frustrating.
The reason why Ice block is having hypothermia added is because it was overpowered in arena, simple as that. Blizzard care very little about 1v1 pvp as no rewards are gained from it. On the other hand, many people play solely for arena so they're trying to balance that. Unfortunately, there is little that can be done to rectify the hunter class in arena so it will probably always stay gimped unless they introduce a wide, open arena.
I'm levelling my mage right now simply because its better in arena. In 1v1 pvp, a mage has every tool they need to beat any class, its just a question of how well they use it.
Woot, straight from a hunter.
Thank you very much for your post : D
Thank you very much for your post : D
Scholar
46 posts
angelblack wrote:
hmm.. hard fights for mages.
All except warriors. Also a very skilled gnome warrior on engeneering will kill you before you get a chance to move.
All except warriors. Also a very skilled gnome warrior on engeneering will kill you before you get a chance to move.
Wow I couldn't disagree with you more. I'm fire specced and I don't consider any class a particularly hard fight for me except for hunters. There are skilled players in other classes that can occasionally kill me, but hunters seem to give me the most trouble. Otherwise, I regularly destroy most classes.
Edited, May 8th 2007 1:11pm by blueraider
I started over when BC came out (mostly because I wanted to try the new races but I start over every expansion pack on every game I play) and leveled my hunter a bit then went to my true passion- The mage. I hit 50 a bit ago (stopped at 19, 29, 39, 49 for about 12 days at a time) and I was dueling two hunters one being 58 BM and one being 56 MM and the only time I lost at all (remember I'm level 50) was when I accidently sheeped the hunter not his pet. Just a little validation that my strat does work (in duels at very least)
19 posts
Well my philosophy is that you think a class is "Hard", study them. Figure out what their main attacks are. Get better gear. Or just, avoid them in battles. No shame in running away. Most times.
Scholar
46 posts
LightFlash wrote:
Well my philosophy is that you think a class is "Hard", study them. Figure out what their main attacks are. Get better gear. Or just, avoid them in battles. No shame in running away. Most times.
I agree with you. I've gotten much better at dealing with hunters by studying them, and i may run if they get the jump on me. Using lots of mana shields is very important against them.
Locks are hard for a Mage. I have a 48 Lock that I only PvP with. No matter what a Mage does. Im just burst them down way to fast. Sure Mages have tons of instant cast. But as a Destro Lock I got about 3 of them also. Two of which do high amounts of DMG. Since Mages have the least amount of HP in the game (usually) then it's not to hard to throw two dots on a mage then instant cast them twice FTW. Felhunter eats up there buffs and that is just an added bonus for me.
19 posts
Ah, the usefullness of mana shield and blink.
Quote:
Locks are hard for a Mage. I have a 48 Lock that I only PvP with. No matter what a Mage does. Im just burst them down way to fast. Sure Mages have tons of instant cast. But as a Destro Lock I got about 3 of them also. Two of which do high amounts of DMG. Since Mages have the least amount of HP in the game (usually) then it's not to hard to throw two dots on a mage then instant cast them twice FTW. Felhunter eats up there buffs and that is just an added bonus for me.
Yeah...anytime you want to duel me lock vs mage with that strat. just let me know sir : D Read up a little. A frost mage can wipe your dots, wipe fear, and absorb just about all your instants. Destro lock isn't the one to worry about folks (imo of course).
14 posts
My 49 fire mage can destroy most classes, the only real problem for me is shammys -> stormspike one hits me (around 2.6k health)and if i'm not dead one more hit usually does it. Hunters sometimes, but once I get close they have no chance, theres no point dying with 2k mana left so just arcane explosion, blastwave and frost nova to keep their pet away..just keep jumping around XD...locks can be a pain if you miss counter-spelling their fear or they have a fel hound, otherwise easy as hell, i can usually 2-3 shot them if i can get close enough for a couple insta casts. Rogues can be a pain, 95% of the horde rogues i've faced in PvP though open with cheap shot, just blink away, sheep and destroy them with ease. If they open with an ambush, hope to god they don't crit, blink, then just use frost nova, then AoE them and don't let them vanish or you're dead. These strategies work 90% of the time for me in PvP and i'm always in the top 3, for DMG, HK, Killing Blows and have under five deaths.
Recent Visitors: 200
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (200)
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Mage pvp what classes are hard for a mage and how to counter
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC