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SV Spec.Follow

#27 May 02 2007 at 2:24 AM Rating: Decent
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1,292 posts
Nibbrah wrote:
What I'm saying is that things like imp wing clip and surefooted help deal with situations that aren't so perfect.
Except that's not at all what you said. What you said was:
Nibbrah wrote:
if your play style is to avoid aggro at all costs (i.e. never risk the big crits, never pull mobs off the healer, never do anything but MT assist)
Followed by an insult at Hunters who are MM spec. I'll continue to disagree. If you're choosing to "risk the big crits" and if you don't "avoid aggro at all costs", you are a liability to the raid. If you're spending a lot of time during a raid trying to crit a mob off of a healer, you've got other issues than your spec to deal with.
Nibbrah wrote:
So you're going to stand there while the healer is getting eaten and the tank is distracted or busy with something else?
Of course not. If I'm not assigned a CC role in a pull I'll drop a Freezing Trap in front of a healer at the start of the pull, and if a mob goes to beat on a healer I will run over to lay another Freezing Trap. I might send the Pet and Intimidate the mob. And I might throw a Misdirection on the Tank and then shoot the mob exactly three times. Crits or no, this should move the tank back up to the top of the aggro list.

But no, I wouldn't try to get the mob off of a healer by shooting it to pull the aggro to myself, and then hope that Improved Wing clip and Surefooted will let me survive until the Tank can pull it off of me. Hunters have far better options than that, and a DPS job to do that can't be accomplished while running from a mob.

#28 May 03 2007 at 9:07 PM Rating: Decent
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128 posts
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But no, I wouldn't try to get the mob off of a healer by shooting it to pull the aggro to myself, and then hope that Improved Wing clip and Surefooted will let me survive until the Tank can pull it off of me. Hunters have far better options than that, and a DPS job to do that can't be accomplished while running from a mob.


Kompera, have you ever kited a mob? Never spec SV. It would be a total waste...for you, anyway.

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If I'm not assigned a CC role in a pull I'll drop a Freezing Trap in front of a healer at the start of the pull, and if a mob goes to beat on a healer I will run over to lay another Freezing Trap.


Great, but what if you are CC'ing?

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I might send the Pet and Intimidate the mob.


Hmm, well, maybe you know how to use a pet at least. But waitaminute...didn't you say....
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Off-tanking with the Pet all but disappears once you get to the level 70 Instances


So...which is it? Don't worry, you don't have to answer, even though I know you will.

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And I might throw a Misdirection on the Tank and then shoot the mob exactly three times.


Wow, I guess I've been ******** up this whole time by using Misdirection at the BEGINNING of a fight to avoid the problem altogether.

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Followed by an insult at Hunters who are MM spec.

If you are offended by my earlier post then I apologize. I don't feel too bad, though, because I have 3 lvl 70 hunters...1 for each tree. And a bunch of lower level hunters. I just think the MM tree is brainless, not the people that play it. Except for the ones that act like they know the potential of the survival tree when they obviously don't.
#29 May 04 2007 at 9:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Nibbrah, I was beginning to believe that you merely mis-spoke when you spoke of pulling the mobs onto you. You did after all mention Misdirection. But after you last post I'll just conclude that you just have no idea how to conduct a coherent argument. You're more Scatter Shot than the MM Hunters you insult.

Nibbrah wrote:
Kompera, have you ever kited a mob?
Sure. Not often in BC, but a few mobs I could not solo with a "burn down" method. Never in an Instance in BC. But what's your point? If I needed to kite a mob I'd be getting aggro on it at the start of a fight, and it would be trivial. I wouldn't be assigned to kite a mob that just so happened to be beating on a Healer, for example. So your question is irrelevant.
Nibbrah wrote:
Great, but what if you are CC'ing?
This may seem startling to you.... But if I'm CCing, then I'm CCing. I won't have a spare trap for that mob beating on the Healer, which is why I cited several other remedies. Surely you saw those?
Nibbrah wrote:
Hmm, well, maybe you know how to use a pet at least. But waitaminute...didn't you say....
Kompera wrote:

Off-tanking with the Pet all but disappears once you get to the level 70 Instances

So...which is it?
Surely the difference between being assigned a mob to have the pet off-tank and using Intimidate to give a player Tank a few more seconds to regain aggro is not a hard concept for you to understand.

So far all of your points are very much hair-splitting, with no real substance to them.
Nibbrah wrote:
Wow, I guess I've been ******** up this whole time by using Misdirection at the BEGINNING of a fight to avoid the problem altogether.
Ok Nibs. You're right. There's never been a case where a mob got away from a Tank where the Hunter used Misdirection at the start of the fight. Ever. Sarcasm does not convey over text well. Just note that this is yet another statement of yours with no value whatsoever. Not only does it have no value, but it has nothing to do with the central point of discussion, which is that you feel that pulling aggro is fine, and I feel that a Hunter such as yourself who deliberately risks pulling aggro is a liability in a raid.
Nibbrah wrote:
If you are offended by my earlier post then I apologize.
No need to apologize, I'm BM spec. I was just pointing out that insults are logical fallacies. An ad hominem attack doesn't make you right, and it doesn't make those you insult wrong.
#30 May 07 2007 at 4:32 PM Rating: Decent
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128 posts
Quote:
Nibbrah wrote:
Kompera, have you ever kited a mob?
Sure. Not often in BC, but a few mobs I could not solo with a "burn down" method. Never in an Instance in BC. But what's your point? If I needed to kite a mob I'd be getting aggro on it at the start of a fight, and it would be trivial. I wouldn't be assigned to kite a mob that just so happened to be beating on a Healer, for example. So your question is irrelevant.


The point is, not every fight works out as planned. You're hardly ever going to be "assigned" to kite a mob. And here's the thing...if the healer dies because someone broke the CC's and your traps are on cooldown, no one's really gonna blame you (unless YOU broke the CC's) for the group wiping. No one's gonna say, Kompera, why didn't you pull that mob off the healer? But the thing you obviously haven't figured out yet is that you CAN save the group if that happens. I don't know how many times I've prevent the group from wiping by using distracting shot, wing clip, entrapment frost, etc. Yes. I've done it. Many times. In lvl 70 instances. I don't mean to be self-congratulatory here...I'm just saying there are a LOT of tools at a hunter's disposal, and many are found in the upper part of the survival tree.

Don't sit and tell people not to use those tools just because you haven't figured them out yet.

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I feel that a Hunter such as yourself who deliberately risks pulling aggro is a liability in a raid.


I will repeat myself for your benefit. Yes, avoid aggro. But not at the cost of the lives of the cloth wearers.

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I was just pointing out that insults are logical fallacies.
Whatever, insults are insults. Keep practicing.
#31 May 07 2007 at 6:19 PM Rating: Decent
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1,292 posts
Nibbrah wrote:
I will repeat myself for your benefit. Yes, avoid aggro. But not at the cost of the lives of the cloth wearers.
You contradict yourself.
I'll repeat you for your benefit.
Nibbrah wrote:
if your play style is to avoid aggro at all costs (i.e. never risk the big crits, never pull mobs off the healer, never do anything but MT assist)[blah blah]
You might think you're "saving" a Healer by pulling a mob off of it with your risky big crits. What's far more likely is that you pull aggro from the Tank by risking a few early crits since you seem to feel that it's boring to simply assist fire, the mob comes at you, you FD wiping your aggro, and the mob heads for the highest aggro on his list. The Tank isn't that person, since you've pulled it off of him by being willing to "risk the big crits", and that leaves the Healer.

I'd never be interested in grouping with a player who feels that risking pulling aggro from the tanks is an acceptable practice, and all your rhetoric about using those same "risky" (your words, remember) crits to save the healer don't make up for your poor group attitude.

One of the largest strengths of a Hunter in a group is our ability to apply a high amount of safe DPS. Emphasis on safe. No serious group wants a member who is willing to risk pulling aggro from the Tanks. That's just an invitation to wipe after wipe. A Hunter who feels it's ok to "risk the big crits" is just contributing to the "Huntard" mindset. Enjoy.

I've corrected your self-contradiction. And the rest of your points pretty much make no sense at all, making continuing this conversation counterproductive. You may have the last word if you like.
Nibbrah wrote:
you don't have to answer, even though I know you will.
#32 May 08 2007 at 6:32 PM Rating: Decent
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128 posts
No, I'll let you have the last word.
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"Huntard"
#33 May 08 2007 at 7:57 PM Rating: Decent
A while back, (before the BC expansion) I went from a BM spec to a SV spec and liked it but I felt a few of the talent points could have been better spent..I took a break just before the launch and recently came back.. I've re-spec'ed to a MM (3.41.17) build but have been thinking about changing that to something like this

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=mZVVbRqzhhZchhGxc0hV0h

(I've tried wyvern sting before and didn't find it hat useful myself.. the only works out of combat component greatly limited it's usefulness imo)

Morrage, the peasant hunter.
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/?#character-sheet.xml?r=Eldre%27Thalas&n=Morrage

#34 May 09 2007 at 5:20 AM Rating: Decent
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27,272 posts
Wyvern sting can be used in combat, and definately is good to keep a mob off of the healer/other squishy.
and i have had pulls in wich i had to CC 3 mobs, 2 traps and 1 sting.
(pet offtanking the non elite, so 4 CC'd if you count that)
being able to do that is very very nice ^^
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