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Dragon Age: Origins QuestionFollow

#1 Sep 13 2011 at 8:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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No spoilers please, I'm just getting into the meat of the game

Anyway, the bisexual bard -- armor her or not? One of the game tips is that lightly armored characters draw less attention from mobs so I assumed that was why she's in a robe and decided not to armor her. However, she's also an idiot and gets herself into trouble and folds like a beach chair. Is it better to dump some armor on her for protection? If I do, should I strike a balance with light armor or go all in and drape her in scale/chain/whatever?

I realize I could experiment on my own but I'm at work anyway so why not solicit opinion.
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#2 Sep 13 2011 at 9:03 AM Rating: Good
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iirc i went with medium for leliana. Funny thing with her, later in the game i spent all this time beefing up my tank to handle a boss. The tank died right away and she ended up tanking the entire fight successfully.
#3 Sep 13 2011 at 9:07 AM Rating: Good
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Generally, Liliana works best as an archer. I know that the game starts her off with a dagger and the melee AI programming, but she's much more adept with a longbow standing at a distance.

Also, she's probably going to draw aggro regardless unless you program her to attack the same target as your tank character. The bigger issue in deciding what armor to equip her with is managing her stamina. I generally found that light armor is fine, although you may run out of stamina on longer fights.

Protip: the robe is standard uniform for Sisters of the Chantry, hence why she's wearing it when you meet her.
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#4 Sep 13 2011 at 9:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, I knew it was a Chantry robe (hence its name: "Chantry Robe" Smiley: grin ) but I was sketchy on how relevant it was to her especially given the game tip. That's the problem with fantasy RPGs, you take all sorts of collected half-information from game to game and seed yourself with misinformation.

I saw she had some archer abilities so maybe I'll give that a shot. Even the drawing aggro thing wasn't so bad in of itself but she always seems to be the first to run into a group or something else stupid no matter how I tinker with her tactics. It was all I could do to keep her from standing in a bonfire earlier (take control, run her out, watch her decide to run back in, rinse & repeat).

"By the Maker, the best tactic I can think of right now is to run across the battlefield to that one undead and flank him by standing in a raging inferno while wearing a robe! It can't fail!"

Edited, Sep 13th 2011 10:23am by Jophiel
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#5 Sep 13 2011 at 9:35 AM Rating: Excellent
You have only begun to be frustrated by people standing in the fire.
#6 Sep 13 2011 at 9:54 AM Rating: Good
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If you do have her meleeing ive found it best to control the melee DPS as much as possible. They are terribly inefficient if left to do their own thing, and you can cause some major damage if you use them.
#7 Sep 13 2011 at 10:05 AM Rating: Good
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Kavekk wrote:
You have only begun to be frustrated by the AI.

FTFY.

Standing in fire is only one of the many ways in which the NPCs are daft.

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That's the problem with fantasy RPGs, you take all sorts of collected half-information from game to game and seed yourself with misinformation.

The "heavier armor draws more aggro" thing is misleading. In practice, it really only affects which character the enemies will target as you step into the room. Once the fighting starts, damage aggro far exceeds armor aggro.

Edited, Sep 13th 2011 11:08am by Demea
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#8 Sep 13 2011 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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When using npcs as archers, make sure to set the tactics to "ranged" otherwise that person will take a couple shots then switch to a sword and start chopping away (though I guess you could also just not equip melee weapons even in the secondary weapon slot...).

As far as armor, as mentioned, armor agro is the least of your worries. Don't toss/sell garnets. Don't underestimate constitution, especially on tanks (more important in extra-Hard mode).

Edited, Sep 13th 2011 1:36pm by xypin
#9 Sep 13 2011 at 11:52 AM Rating: Decent
If I recall correctly, mind you I only played through once quite awhile ago, it was best to have the Rogues arch until enemies come close(Which you can program them to do.) As far as heavy armor concerned if I recall correctly the heavier the armor the higher the fatigue. I know it effects either your max stamina/mana or the recovery rate I forget which in 1. So that why it's typically better to have your back liners or characters not taking as much damage to use lighter gear so they can use more abilities.
#10 Sep 13 2011 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
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Armor has a fatigue rating which is actually a %. Light armor has little to no fatigue and heavy armor has ridiculous amounts. Your fatigue % is reflected as an increase to the cost of spell/abilities. So with 50% fatigue, an ability that needs 10 stamina will actually require 15 stamina.

On rogues- I found that unless you plan to actually control the rogue, it's much better to go ranger + bard. Rarely will NPCs position themselves for backstabs or use their abilities correctly.


I liked rogue in DA:O, though I always feel compelled to start on that class due to the game's mechanics...

Edited, Sep 13th 2011 1:36pm by xypin
#11 Sep 13 2011 at 1:29 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah i loved rogue too, wish i had started as one. My first char was a mage, with a tank and 2 other ranged attackers because the melee dps was so bad. Then i made a melee rogue and **** died fast.
#12 Sep 13 2011 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
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KTurner wrote:
Yeah i loved rogue too, wish i had started as one. My first char was a mage, with a tank and 2 other ranged attackers because the melee dps was so bad. Then i made a melee rogue and sh*t died fast.

I loved my backstabbing rogue character (especially since I'm a completionist that absolutely must unlock all chests and doors), but I recall playing a mage as being EZ-Mode.
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#13 Sep 13 2011 at 3:41 PM Rating: Good
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It was pretty easy.
#14 Sep 13 2011 at 5:04 PM Rating: Good
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I agree with all the advice here. Lel makes a great Bard/Archer in light or medium armor at most. Have her sustain the stam regen song. What I would do to keep my characters out of trouble my first play through was have them attack my target but also position them first then tell them to hold with the hand command. The focus fire helps drill down mobs and keeps your DPS from pulling them off the tank.

That way you can set up a backline of mages + Archers while you tank the front. They will stand back there and kick *** while staying out of trouble especially if you use terrain and choke points. If mobs break off you can taunt them back.

When she gets deeper in archer and gets that one super wallop shot (forget the name) she gets in trouble again sometimes but by then you should be uber enough to save her np.

Of course I have a tendency to tank. Even my rogue was duelist/tanky and arcane armor mage, fuggetaboutit. One man army lol.
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#15 Sep 13 2011 at 5:09 PM Rating: Decent
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It's been awhile since I played, but I seem to recall that unless you micromanage your NPC characters, they are fairly useless. I found it much easier to just let them die and take care of things myself.
#16 Sep 13 2011 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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Even though I normally play heavily-armored characters in most RPGs like this, I started a warrior, tried both tank and damage dealer styles and I was kinda 'meh' on both.

Then I tried Rogue, and holy crap, it was awesome!

I made a melee rogue, gave her the nicest leathers I could find, two weapon style, and I kept active control of her almost 99% fulltime, only pausing the game to tell the healer to cast Group Heal (something the AI refuses to do) and/or revive people when necessary. Oh, and sometimes I'd have to tell the tank when to go after a different mob than the one he's fighting, because sometimes his choice in targets isn't exactly agreeing with my thoughts. Oh, and Poultices are your friends; use them! Multiple people getting low? Pause and tell everyone to med up.

Otherwise, I let most of the characters do whatever they want to do.

RE:Turin: Not sure what your playstyle was, or who exactly you used in the group, but if you use Alistair, the healer magess, yourself (I used a melee rogue) and either the golem or the huge warrior guy, you can pretty much let them do whatever they want and you will kill crap. Well, that is, at normal diff. If you jacked it up to Hard or what-not, then maybe not. But then I bet Hard-mode, they expect you to micromanage everything.

Edited, Sep 13th 2011 7:38pm by Lyrailis
#17 Sep 13 2011 at 6:59 PM Rating: Good
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I was surprised to find that the difficulty levels really aren't all that different. I think the only difference I really found between super easy and super hard is that mages start killing your party too. Constitution was a little more important as things got tougher.

It's possible to never really need to micromanage your npcs for respectable damage if you choose your team right, but then I found myself almost forced into using the same set up every time I play the game. This is something that DA2 really got right- with the exception of one or two fights, you never really needed a tank and healing mages just didn't work allowing you to use whoever you thought was cool rather than useful. Also, DA2 hard mode is actually hard.
#18 Sep 13 2011 at 7:09 PM Rating: Good
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xypin wrote:
and healing mages just didn't work allowing you to use whoever you thought was cool rather than useful.


Eh, I consider that a bad thing, but I will admit that I've not played the game yet.

But still.

Healing Mages "just didn't work"?

Are you supposed to just beat everything down before it can kill you, or are potions/poultices that much stronger that you can stay alive using those entirely?

I got quite used to having Wynne in the group and having her heals to fall back on when I'm in a boss fight, or large groups of enemies, etc.
#19 Sep 13 2011 at 8:02 PM Rating: Good
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Lyrailis wrote:
xypin wrote:
and healing mages just didn't work allowing you to use whoever you thought was cool rather than useful.
Eh, I consider that a bad thing, but I will admit that I've not played the game yet.

But still.

Healing Mages "just didn't work"?

Are you supposed to just beat everything down before it can kill you, or are potions/poultices that much stronger that you can stay alive using those entirely?

I got quite used to having Wynne in the group and having her heals to fall back on when I'm in a boss fight, or large groups of enemies, etc.
In DA:O, I abused my mages as healers to no end, but it was also possible to fall back to potion spam if needed and in easier modes, I've made use of that allowing my mage(s) to focus their mp on destruction. Your heal spell in DA:O has a 5 second cooldown time allowing you to use it often.

In DA2, the reason healing mages don't work boils down to one reason: your heal spell has a 40 second cooldown. Potions have a similar cooldown, so healing in general, takes a big hit in DA2. There's more to it than that, but that's the primary reason. Also, please realize that even though the game has "Dragon Age" in its title, the two are so different, it's literally like night and day.

Edited, Sep 13th 2011 9:51pm by xypin
#20 Sep 14 2011 at 10:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Does difficulty scale to character level? For instance, I have an array of places I can go, do I generally find them equally difficult regardless of what order I tackle them in? Or are some places just early-game deathtraps and others potentially trivial if you don't do them early enough?
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#21 Sep 14 2011 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
Does difficulty scale to character level? For instance, I have an array of places I can go, do I generally find them equally difficult regardless of what order I tackle them in? Or are some places just early-game deathtraps and others potentially trivial if you don't do them early enough?


It scales to level, but some places are really tough early on and not so bad later. Or vice versa.

The mage's tower can be quite tricky at first if you aren't fully prepared, for example...
#22 Sep 14 2011 at 10:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, I imagine equipment and skills play a significant role. I just meant sheer opponent level.
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#23 Sep 14 2011 at 10:57 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah they are +/= your level depending on the mob type.

Its definitely a backwards game as far as difficulty goes. The hardest part of the game for me was the first ogre you fight in the 'intro'. The end just got really easy.
#24 Sep 14 2011 at 11:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Does difficulty scale to character level? For instance, I have an array of places I can go, do I generally find them equally difficult regardless of what order I tackle them in? Or are some places just early-game deathtraps and others potentially trivial if you don't do them early enough?

I found a lot of places were difficult (or at least sucked up health poultices) until you go to the mage tower. Then you can get a healer on your side; makes the rest of the game pretty easy even though the tower itself can be long and brutal at first. Some places are also better to visit before others; for example, the Daelish area has the strongest heavy armor in the game (assuming you can beat the things guarding it). Of course if you go too early you won't have the STR on your tank to equip it... it's all a trade-off.
#25 Sep 14 2011 at 11:23 AM Rating: Good
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Each area has a level range that will be scale according to your level. Orzammar is the last of the main territories, so going there first is going to be tough. Redcliffe is the lowest, iirc, followed by the Mage Tower and then the Dalish lands.

But you should consider going to the MT first. You'll get some skill bonuses and be able to recruit the (perhaps arguably) best companion in the game.

Also, I made extensive use of healing mages in both DA games. Most fights became infinitely easier if you had a good, dedicated healer.

COULD you get by in both? Yes, of course. But it becomes much harder to do so at higher difficulties. And you are forced to build teams that invest a lot in avoiding/mitigating damage.

I'd imagine an Isabela, Merrill, Aveline team might be pretty strong. And any Hawke type would work with it. It also has the added bonus of coming with hilarious dialogue. Unfortunately, Varric doesn't really have the survivability for that kind of setup, imo.

[EDIT]

Oh, and you'll get some permanent stat boosts from the Mage Tower. Very useful early on, since you can stop raising the stats you only need for requirements, and focus on the more powerful ones. For instance, DW Rogues in the first game do want some Str, but not too much--just enough for armor reqs. But the earlier you have it, the eariler you will be able to wear that gear.

Edited, Sep 14th 2011 1:26pm by idiggory
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#26 Sep 14 2011 at 12:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Groovy. I'm in Redcliffe Castle now but just started. I might back out to an earlier save and go to Mage Tower instead just to see how it goes.

This is one of the best games I've played in a long time. I keep finding myself loathe to deal with new characters because I'm genuinely attached to the ones I've grown to know. Which, from a mechanics perspective, I need to overcome but from an immersion perspective is a nice achievement.

My Steam Summer Sale dollars well spent!
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Belkira wrote:
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