Making 2H agility swords or axes would make them exclusive to hunters since the only other class that could make use of the stats would be druids - and they can't equip them. Same thing the other way around with a 2H agility mace like Earthwarden once was.
Hunters are already getting more than any other class by being able to freely mog their ranged weapon, so I don't feel sorry for them. Also, in just a few months they won't be equipping anything but their ranged weapon anyway. Now that will leave agi staves and polearms exclusive to druids, and might end up being a good enough reason for them to reconsider their weapon restrictions overall.
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Mazra wrote:
aktlingit wrote:
So what about moggin has annoyed you?
That you can't transmogrify 1h weapons with hand requirements.
It's kind of cool being a caster - since they decided that dual-wielding SP weapons was imba, pretty much everything a healadin would roll on for stats is main-hand, which is the universal recipient, so I can use anything for mogging.
While dual-wield-friendly gear is often one-hand, which is the universal donor.
Maybe their itemization team will take this into account and make things one-handed instead of main-hand if and only if it is aimed only at DW. Yeah, right.
Mazra wrote:
I've always found the weapon restrictions odd, to be honest.
Why in the hell would a Shaman not be able to wield a sword? Technically, you wield it the same way you wield an axe or mace in this game. I mean, Shaman can wield daggers, some of which are bigger than swords.
Why in the hell would a Shaman not be able to wield a sword? Technically, you wield it the same way you wield an axe or mace in this game. I mean, Shaman can wield daggers, some of which are bigger than swords.
I blame Gary Gygax, he started the whole restriction thing.
Kanngarnix wrote:
Making 2H agility swords or axes would make them exclusive to hunters since the only other class that could make use of the stats would be druids - and they can't equip them. Same thing the other way around with a 2H agility mace like Earthwarden once was.
Hunters are already getting more than any other class by being able to freely mog their ranged weapon, so I don't feel sorry for them. Also, in just a few months they won't be equipping anything but their ranged weapon anyway. Now that will leave agi staves and polearms exclusive to druids, and might end up being a good enough reason for them to reconsider their weapon restrictions overall.
Hunters are already getting more than any other class by being able to freely mog their ranged weapon, so I don't feel sorry for them. Also, in just a few months they won't be equipping anything but their ranged weapon anyway. Now that will leave agi staves and polearms exclusive to druids, and might end up being a good enough reason for them to reconsider their weapon restrictions overall.
I am rather bummed about this future change. Sure us hunters use them pretty much just for a stat stick, and I am rather tired of only using staffs and polearms for my 2 handed weapon choice, as I really like a big *** axe. And I wanted to morg said axe into my Arcanite Ripper, which begs the question; Will I be able to still use my 'ripper once said weapon change takes affect?
Kanngarnix wrote:
Lyrailis wrote:
There are some things I really hate about their development decisions and the pure lack of weapon type choice is one of them. They stick 1-2 weapons of each class (1h strength, 2h strength 1h agility etc) in each tier and shove em down your throat and they tell you "USE THESE AND NOTHING BUT!" and then they give us Transmog which SHOULD have alleviated the "OMG, not another Sword!?!?" and they fail to let it do that. God Forbid a Paladin walk into an instance using a 2H Mace....
Fail to see your point.
Baine in End time drops a 2H axe
Mannoroth in Well of Eternity drops a 2H Mace
Yor'sahj drops a 2H axe
Blackthorn drops a 2H mace
Gurthalak from Madness of Deathwing is the only 2H sword this tier, even counting in the dungeons. Looking at the raid alone, there is exactly one of each. Mace, Axe, Sword, Polearm. I'm calling that fair.
Maybe not everyone wants to do Raids? Maybe not everyone wants to do the new 5man Heroics?
Maybe not everyone has time to do it?
Maybe it refuses to drop for you, OR you get it Ninja'd from you?
I don't see why they can't give 3 different craftable weapons, or like I said, plain remove the restrictions on Transmog.
Edited, Dec 14th 2011 11:08pm by Lyrailis
Lyrailis wrote:
Maybe not everyone wants to do Raids? Maybe not everyone wants to do the new 5man Heroics?
Maybe not everyone has time to do it?
Maybe it refuses to drop for you, OR you get it Ninja'd from you?
I don't see why they can't give 3 different craftable weapons, or like I said, plain remove the restrictions on Transmog.
Maybe not everyone has time to do it?
Maybe it refuses to drop for you, OR you get it Ninja'd from you?
I don't see why they can't give 3 different craftable weapons, or like I said, plain remove the restrictions on Transmog.
If you don't raid, don't do the 5-mans, then you hardly need anything but those weapons that are actually available as craftables or BoEs, or even quest rewards. That you get to have an epic sword if it really needs to be something purple is already more than you could possibly ask for. If nothing else, it sure as hell is good enough to let you participate in the content that holds the alternatives. If looks are so much more important than the stats on it, you can also do PvP and gather the honor points for whatever weapon type you want for your mogging experience.
Weapon drops are supposed to be meaningful, and removing all mogging restriction would be very much like handing out tokens like it's already done for tier armor pieces. Not only boring, but also spoiling the fun for those who actually enjoy to work within the restrictions while still getting their kicks out of collecting the best possible upgrade for their toon.
Kanngarnix wrote:
Weapon drops are supposed to be meaningful, and removing all mogging restriction would be very much like handing out tokens like it's already done for tier armor pieces. Not only boring, but also spoiling the fun for those who actually enjoy to work within the restrictions while still getting their kicks out of collecting the best possible upgrade for their toon.
There is a huge difference between wanting to get gear with higher stats and wanting to get a different look for ones gear...
The first is unnecessary if the person in question doesn't participate in endgame content. The second one has nothing to do with gear-progression and is the sole reason Blizzard implemented Transmog in the first place. So putting needless restrictions on this feature is quite stupid.
The only restriction that seems needless is the MH/OH/1H deal, but it actually has some good reasons behind it. Most notable the fact that someone at Blizz would have to go through hundreds or even thousands of weapon models to ensure that the piece attaches at the right spot, is properly animated, and whatnot. Some weapons, like fist weapons, most certainly lack the graphics to work in the opposite hand of that which they were classified for.
So you need to give them some freaking time to sort all that out. They're receiving lots of feedback about the whole thing, and some people might actually be working on it already. Right now it's kinda the time to be thankful for the feature working as good as it already does rather than pissing and moaning about the few flaws that keep it from being perfect.
So you need to give them some freaking time to sort all that out. They're receiving lots of feedback about the whole thing, and some people might actually be working on it already. Right now it's kinda the time to be thankful for the feature working as good as it already does rather than pissing and moaning about the few flaws that keep it from being perfect.
Kanngarnix wrote:
The only restriction that seems needless is the MH/OH/1H deal, but it actually has some good reasons behind it. Most notable the fact that someone at Blizz would have to go through hundreds or even thousands of weapon models to ensure that the piece attaches at the right spot, is properly animated, and whatnot. Some weapons, like fist weapons, most certainly lack the graphics to work in the opposite hand of that which they were classified for.
So you need to give them some freaking time to sort all that out. They're receiving lots of feedback about the whole thing, and some people might actually be working on it already. Right now it's kinda the time to be thankful for the feature working as good as it already does rather than pissing and moaning about the few flaws that keep it from being perfect.
So you need to give them some freaking time to sort all that out. They're receiving lots of feedback about the whole thing, and some people might actually be working on it already. Right now it's kinda the time to be thankful for the feature working as good as it already does rather than pissing and moaning about the few flaws that keep it from being perfect.
Basically, what they'd have to do is model every weapon as if it were 1H, which is arguably what they should be doing - and I wouldn't be surprised if they started doing so sometime this past patch cycle, even if no one ever sees it.
Although. With as much work as they seem to be planning to revise the character models for 5.0, it would be natural to do an update pass through all the low-res models (which would then stand out even more than today). They'd have free rein to do whatever is necessary to make them work in the 5.0 mogging system.
Given their fanaticism towards avoiding imba gear combinations, hand restrictions aren't going away until there is something of a redesign of the shaman class, and possibly DK/warrior. Which, of course, are also happening with 5.0.
ElMuneco wrote:
Basically, what they'd have to do is model every weapon as if it were 1H, which is arguably what they should be doing - and I wouldn't be surprised if they started doing so sometime this past patch cycle, even if no one ever sees it.
Although. With as much work as they seem to be planning to revise the character models for 5.0, it would be natural to do an update pass through all the low-res models (which would then stand out even more than today). They'd have free rein to do whatever is necessary to make them work in the 5.0 mogging system.
Given their fanaticism towards avoiding imba gear combinations, hand restrictions aren't going away until there is something of a redesign of the shaman class, and possibly DK/warrior. Which, of course, are also happening with 5.0.
Although. With as much work as they seem to be planning to revise the character models for 5.0, it would be natural to do an update pass through all the low-res models (which would then stand out even more than today). They'd have free rein to do whatever is necessary to make them work in the 5.0 mogging system.
Given their fanaticism towards avoiding imba gear combinations, hand restrictions aren't going away until there is something of a redesign of the shaman class, and possibly DK/warrior. Which, of course, are also happening with 5.0.
It'd just be nice to be able to mog MH/OH weapons with 1H weapons. Obviously, you can equip the 1h stuff in either hand, usually, so it's kind of silly for it to not work specifically for MH or OF. That's just my opinion though. I just really would like my warrior's mace to look similar to the gear I'm trying to collect lol
Just to be sure everyone is on the same page, from the very first blue post on Transmorgrification Rules:
• Main hand weapons can only be used to transmogrify Main hand weapons.
• Off-hand weapons can only be used to transmogrify Off-hand weapons.
• One handed weapons can be used to transmogrify a Main hand or Off-hand weapon.
I can confirm that this is how it works - my Lightforged Elementium Hammer (MH) is currently mogged with Hand of Edward the Odd (1H). Although I'm going to remove it next time I log on because the hammer matches Purple Judgement better.
• Main hand weapons can only be used to transmogrify Main hand weapons.
• Off-hand weapons can only be used to transmogrify Off-hand weapons.
• One handed weapons can be used to transmogrify a Main hand or Off-hand weapon.
I can confirm that this is how it works - my Lightforged Elementium Hammer (MH) is currently mogged with Hand of Edward the Odd (1H). Although I'm going to remove it next time I log on because the hammer matches Purple Judgement better.
That may have been my issue and my mistake for misreading. My weapon is 1H (the tanking mace from Well), and I was trying to transmog it into a MH weapon. Still kind of silly it can't be the other way around if you're equipping it in that specific hand for a reason. Meh, oh well lol
Kanngarnix wrote:
Lyrailis wrote:
Maybe not everyone wants to do Raids? Maybe not everyone wants to do the new 5man Heroics?
Maybe not everyone has time to do it?
Maybe it refuses to drop for you, OR you get it Ninja'd from you?
I don't see why they can't give 3 different craftable weapons, or like I said, plain remove the restrictions on Transmog.
Maybe not everyone has time to do it?
Maybe it refuses to drop for you, OR you get it Ninja'd from you?
I don't see why they can't give 3 different craftable weapons, or like I said, plain remove the restrictions on Transmog.
If you don't raid, don't do the 5-mans, then you hardly need anything but those weapons that are actually available as craftables or BoEs, or even quest rewards. That you get to have an epic sword if it really needs to be something purple is already more than you could possibly ask for. If nothing else, it sure as hell is good enough to let you participate in the content that holds the alternatives. If looks are so much more important than the stats on it, you can also do PvP and gather the honor points for whatever weapon type you want for your mogging experience.
Weapon drops are supposed to be meaningful, and removing all mogging restriction would be very much like handing out tokens like it's already done for tier armor pieces. Not only boring, but also spoiling the fun for those who actually enjoy to work within the restrictions while still getting their kicks out of collecting the best possible upgrade for their toon.
So....
If I read you right, you're saying that for someone to create a cool look for a crafting alt, they should have to raid or use inferior weapons?
I have a DK that only does Skinning and Leatherworking.
I obviously have a Tol Barad Sword on her, as it is *miles* better than the Deepholm Axe. But, if I wanted an Axe on her, I'd have to either Raid or go get the Deepholm Axe back (which I can't because I vendored it).
So you're saying that if they removed the restriction, it would somehow spoil the fun for you, if I used the Tol Barad Sword and transmogged it to, say, one of those cool looking Outland axes?
I'm having trouble understanding your mentality with this.
Not everyone is going to raid with all of their characters. That's just simply ludicrous to expect that.
Is it so much to ask that when I log on, that I see my character wearing stuff I'd like to see them wearing?
Transmogrification was put into the game for this express purpose: To make your gear look like other gear. Let's say with my Death Knight, I bought the full suit of Death Knight armor from Archerus, and let's say I got the axe to that set and wanted to use the axe.
Oh wait I can't, because the ONLY 2H Axes around that aren't random green trash are Raid-Only. I'm not going to gear a Craft Alt up to i-level 280+, and do Dragon Soul just to make my character look pleasing to the eye.
I'm sorry, but that's just ridiculous.
If you're doing skinning and leatherworking, and you're gonna mog it anyway, why can't you use a green axe?
selebrin wrote:
If you're doing skinning and leatherworking, and you're gonna mog it anyway, why can't you use a green axe?
If I'm skinning, I have to kill crap.
If I'm going to kill crap, I'm NOT going to use a weapon that is 150DPS or more weaker than the weapon I'm currently using.
Have you tried? I can remove my weapon entirely and skinnable mobs still fall over.
selebrin wrote:
Have you tried? I can remove my weapon entirely and skinnable mobs still fall over.
Maybe if they're <Lv80 mobs, yeah.
But what if I'm farming, say, Heavy Savage Leathers?
I'm not going to go over to Tol Barad using an I-318 weapon when I have an I-346 weapon that is perfectly fine except for the stupid Transmog restriction.
That and I'm tired of all of my 2H Strength characters all being forced to use swords the entire expansion anyways. Would it *really* have hurt Blizz to make one of those non-raid weapons something other than a Sword?
Or, they could do what we've all suggested: allow us to transmog other weapon types. It would hurt no one.
I can see the "axe has to look like an axe" thing. It kind of makes a bit of sense (well in my mind at least, I suppose everything here is subjective) I can't say that part of it was really frustrating. I took the time to find an axe, dagger and mace for my shaman and a sword and dagger for my mage though so perhaps I'm just invested in it.
Of course I'm not in a position where I'm forced into using a non-mogged item because of a raid upgrade or anything I suppose. But as a whole I haven't been wearing sets until I have all the various options covered.
The "you can't hold that dagger in the other hand" thing is a bit odd. Also some of the distinctions are a little weird with the history of items. There are daggers and swords that could be mistaken for each other. There are already staves that look like maces, or pole arms that could be mistaken for an axe, so meh.
Either way it's not like blizzard doesn't have a history of releasing something in WoW that's not quite finished and letting us work out the bugs.
Of course I'm not in a position where I'm forced into using a non-mogged item because of a raid upgrade or anything I suppose. But as a whole I haven't been wearing sets until I have all the various options covered.
The "you can't hold that dagger in the other hand" thing is a bit odd. Also some of the distinctions are a little weird with the history of items. There are daggers and swords that could be mistaken for each other. There are already staves that look like maces, or pole arms that could be mistaken for an axe, so meh.
Either way it's not like blizzard doesn't have a history of releasing something in WoW that's not quite finished and letting us work out the bugs.
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
someproteinguy wrote:
I can see the "axe has to look like an axe" thing. It kind of makes a bit of sense (well in my mind at least, I suppose everything here is subjective) I can't say that part of it was really frustrating. I took the time to find an axe, dagger and mace for my shaman and a sword and dagger for my mage though so perhaps I'm just invested in it.
Well, I've already provided a good example as to why it is frustrating: 2H Strength.
To start with, you have the CoC weapon, which is.... a sword.
Then they gave you the Tol Barad weapon which is.... a sword.
There's an archaeology weapon which is.... a sword.
Then they gave you the craftable 365 weapon which is.... yes, another sword.
And with a couple paladins, a couple death knights... I'm tired of 2H swords on everybody because that's all they'll give us. Some variety would have been nice. Even Wrath wasn't this bad, there was a Sword out of the Argent Tournament, the Crafted weapon was a Mace, and there was an Axe out of H-ToC. With the exception of the Axe, the Sword and the Mace were very close to each other in power.
I wonder how we went from that to "Must Raid to get anything other than a 2H Sword". Well, okay, there are 2 hammers in Heroic Dungeons that I know of. IF the RNG is kind to you, IF nobody ninjas it from you, IF you can get a non-fail group.
Quote:
Of course I'm not in a position where I'm forced into using a non-mogged item because of a raid upgrade or anything I suppose. But as a whole I haven't been wearing sets until I have all the various options covered.
I imagine for raiders, this must be even worse! You are given 1, maybe two "Best in Slot" weapons for your raid type (LFR, Normal, or Heroic). If you want something other than that weapon? Tough luck. You're stuck with it. I heard something about the BiS for Enhancement Shaman being a MH Fist. Good luck finding something decent to mog THAT with. Again, what if I don't want a Fist at all? What if I like my axes and maces? I have to use an inferior weapon if I want my character looking like they are using an axe or a mace.
Quote:
The "you can't hold that dagger in the other hand" thing is a bit odd. Also some of the distinctions are a little weird with the history of items. There are daggers and swords that could be mistaken for each other. There are already staves that look like maces, or pole arms that could be mistaken for an axe, so meh.
The MH and OH restrictions are sensible ones: The art was designed with only one of the hands in mind. If you force it to equip in the other hand, graphical errors happen. I think this has been tested with viewer programs and the like. The game doesn't automatically know to mirror the weapons' animations and such; One-Handed weapons have two versions of the weapon, one for Left hand and one for Right hand. I assume 2H Weapons usable with Titan's Grip are the same way.
Quote:
Either way it's not like blizzard doesn't have a history of releasing something in WoW that's not quite finished and letting us work out the bugs.
We kinda have to let them know that we don't like the rules and state why, to convince them to change it. That's why discussion is good.
Edited, Dec 15th 2011 5:15pm by Lyrailis
Just to muddy the waters a little bit, I certainly see at least one STR 2H Axe and at least one STR 2H Mace in every recent level of 5-man dungeon (multiples at 346, one at 353 and one at 378).
ElMuneco wrote:
Just to muddy the waters a little bit, I certainly see at least one STR 2H Axe and at least one STR 2H Mace in every recent level of 5-man dungeon (multiples at 346, one at 353 and one at 378).
Exactly. There is also Forged Elementium Bonecrusher, a craftable 346 2H mace. You can do an hour of PvP a day for a week at most and buy something level 378. Shouldn't be a problem for someone who can grind Tol Barad.
someproteinguy wrote:
I can see the "axe has to look like an axe" thing. It kind of makes a bit of sense (well in my mind at least, I suppose everything here is subjective) I can't say that part of it was really frustrating.
But a bow can look like a gun, it's no problem.
I'm all for keeping it within the weapon type family, but at least show some consistency. Being able to transmogrify a gun into a bow makes as little sense as someone transmogrifying a sword into an axe.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Look at it another way. A few days ago there was no transmogrification, now there is. Why complain so much?
Mazra wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
I can see the "axe has to look like an axe" thing. It kind of makes a bit of sense (well in my mind at least, I suppose everything here is subjective) I can't say that part of it was really frustrating.
But a bow can look like a gun, it's no problem.
I'm all for keeping it within the weapon type family, but at least show some consistency. Being able to transmogrify a gun into a bow makes as little sense as someone transmogrifying a sword into an axe.
There aren't weapon type issues with ranged weapons; anyone that can use a bow can also use a gun or crossbow, and vice versa.
Mazra wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
I can see the "axe has to look like an axe" thing. It kind of makes a bit of sense (well in my mind at least, I suppose everything here is subjective) I can't say that part of it was really frustrating.
But a bow can look like a gun, it's no problem.
I'm all for keeping it within the weapon type family, but at least show some consistency. Being able to transmogrify a gun into a bow makes as little sense as someone transmogrifying a sword into an axe.
Yeah they're nothing if they aren't inconsistent eh? Certainly doesn't help matters.
Edited, Dec 15th 2011 8:34pm by someproteinguy
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
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