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#1 Nov 29 2011 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
...you're going to hate the LFR tool. My first experience was of people derping harder than I've ever seen them derp in the regular LFG tool.

However, the bosses are so much of a joke that the group can be carried relatively easily. About the challenge level of a typical Cata heroic.
#2 Nov 29 2011 at 3:03 PM Rating: Good
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LOL WoW.
#3 Nov 29 2011 at 3:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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So just lots of fail? How's the group dynamics? I can only imagine as getting 25 people together normally for a raid felt like herding cats...

Swearing? Trolling? Details details!!
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#4 Nov 29 2011 at 3:26 PM Rating: Good
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I imagine you can take the idiocy of a normal 5-man PUG and multiply it by two or five and it would be a pretty close representation. Like a Baradin Hold run, except no real raid leader and no kicking of bads.

It's going to be fun and then it's going to go down in WoW history as the most fail thing ever.
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#5 Nov 29 2011 at 4:39 PM Rating: Good
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/shudder
#6 Nov 29 2011 at 4:46 PM Rating: Excellent
So, it goes by pretty quickly. We oneshot all but the last boss, and they all had basic mechanics. (We did Assault on Wyrmrest, by the way. Fall of Deathwing is greyed out for some reason)

Doesn't mean people didn't die, just that we beat the boss.

First boss was extremely simple. Players targeted by the exploding crystal had to stack on it. When he pulls you in, get behind the stalagmites, very similar to that boss in Stonecore.

Second/Third boss (They can be done out of order) was the blood ball boss. Make a priority system, then kill the most dangerous color. Easy.

Next boss was even easier. Just keep the ball bouncing. Tell the ranged to spread out, then hit it like a beach ball at a concert. Stack up when it hits him.

The fourth and final boss is what we wiped on, twice. Remember the orbs with the beams in Ruby Sanctum? Yeah, it has that mechanic again. Of course, people have to get out of the giant swirling bubble of doom in the middle first, then move with the ice waves. Why is this so hard.

On the bright side, whenever the terribads drop out it doesn't even say anything in the chat log. It just quickly puts you back in the queue and finds a replacement pretty freaking quickly.

Edited, Nov 29th 2011 6:34pm by IDrownFish
#7 Nov 30 2011 at 12:36 AM Rating: Excellent
Oh, also, the first boss of part 2 has, literally, a "Press This Not to Die" button.

People will die.
#8 Nov 30 2011 at 1:37 AM Rating: Good
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Personally I'm more annoyed at LFG right now.

"I've haven't done this before. What does this boss do?"
Crickets...
Boss pull.
Inevitable fail because I didn't know about 'thing that kills you'.
"OMG WHY YOU FAIL SO HARD?!?!?! Don't you watch fights on youtube?!"
Tank leaves.


Seriously?

Edited, Nov 30th 2011 1:38am by Karlina
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#9 Nov 30 2011 at 3:15 AM Rating: Good
I had a pretty good experience with the LFR tool this evening, but we also had about 10 of my guildies in the group, so that probably helped a lot. The derpiest person we had was a DK who didn't respond to any of the ready checks and did 8k dps. He got kicked after the 3rd boss because we got sick of it.

I was rather surprised with how easy the fights were. To the point where the last boss got fail pulled, and we didn't even lose anyone. It was pretty astounding.

Also, apparently the second half of DS is not being released for LFR until next week. That's what I heard anyways.
#10 Nov 30 2011 at 3:15 AM Rating: Excellent
Despite the fact that the dungeon journal spells it out for you, people still don't know fights.

It amazes me.
#11 Nov 30 2011 at 3:17 AM Rating: Good
Wonder Gem PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
I had a pretty good experience with the LFR tool this evening, but we also had about 10 of my guildies in the group, so that probably helped a lot. The derpiest person we had was a DK who didn't respond to any of the ready checks and did 8k dps. He got kicked after the 3rd boss because we got sick of it.

I was rather surprised with how easy the fights were. To the point where the last boss got fail pulled, and we didn't even lose anyone. It was pretty astounding.

Also, apparently the second half of DS is not being released for LFR until next week. That's what I heard anyways.


Source.

Quote:
The Fall of Deathwing is not open just yet for the Raid Finder or Heroic. We plan to open this encounter up in approximately one week. We felt it was important to let more people get through the fights in normal difficulty, make videos, strat guides, update their mods, etc. before we let everyone take a crack at Deathwing. We’ll keep you informed when this part of the raid opens up for Raid Finder. Keep in mind that it’s required to complete the first half to be able to queue for the second, so don’t hold back!
#12 Nov 30 2011 at 3:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Good call from Blizz to only open half of the bosses on those difficulties that are actually going to matter in the long run. Allows them to focus on the raid finder and any potential issues with it rather than having to track it along with a bazillion boss encounters. A little bit more tweaking on the heroic part probably won't hurt either.
#13 Nov 30 2011 at 5:10 AM Rating: Good
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I have yet to try out the LFR (I'm now 2 ilvl points from trying it out), but I really, really wish Blizzard had done 10 mans (or even 15 mans?). This 25 man thing doesn't take a genius to realize how horribly terrific this is going to be at least half the time. I've tried leading some pug 25 mans and its hell on azeroth and I have full kick and loot powers. 25 random people is just totally unmanageable without any solid penalties for being an idiot.
#14 Nov 30 2011 at 6:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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ekaterinodar wrote:
I have yet to try out the LFR (I'm now 2 ilvl points from trying it out), but I really, really wish Blizzard had done 10 mans (or even 15 mans?). This 25 man thing doesn't take a genius to realize how horribly terrific this is going to be at least half the time. I've tried leading some pug 25 mans and its hell on azeroth and I have full kick and loot powers. 25 random people is just totally unmanageable without any solid penalties for being an idiot.

For 10-man, the comp would either be 2 tanks, 6 DPS, and 2 healers, or maybe 2/5/3. In the first case, if one healer fails, the other healer has to solo heal the whole raid. In the second, DPS are actually going through the queue SLOWER than the dungeon finder, since there's only 2.5 DPS / tank instead of 3. It's just a lot easier to absorb fail in 25-man than it is in 10-man, even if you have more of it.
#15 Nov 30 2011 at 8:01 AM Rating: Good
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IDrownFish wrote:
Despite the fact that the dungeon journal spells it out for you, people still don't know fights.

It amazes me.


Not having done any Cata dungeons I didn't know about the journal so your post made me look at it.

It does seem a massive step forward but I still don't think it is a substitute for a guide or tactics briefing.

I looked at the first boss in BRC, Whatsit Bonecrusher, and the journal told me about him and his moves. Which is a whole lot better than asking what this boss does and getting no answer Smiley: smile

What it didn't say is what the tactic is for countering those moves. I had to look on Wowhead for that. Which is fair enough in my book.

Also from my past experience there is no real substitute for seeing something. You can read about it till you're blue in the face but sometimes (mostly in my case Smiley: smile) it doesn't connect until you've seen it happen. And frequently the blurry videos you can call up are not that helpful. Maybe you have to just go along and stand in the fire a time or two to figure out how the strat you've read works on the ground.
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#16 Nov 30 2011 at 12:56 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
"I've haven't done this before. What does this boss do?"
Crickets...
Boss pull.
Inevitable fail because I didn't know about 'thing that kills you'.
"OMG WHY YOU FAIL SO HARD?!?!?! Don't you watch fights on youtube?!"
Tank leaves.

This. Three f'ing times in a row. Too bad I have social commitments for most of this week and will have to miss out on more annoying, disappointing, and rude LFG pugs!

Good luck everyone! =)
#17 Nov 30 2011 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
Cobra101 wrote:
Also from my past experience there is no real substitute for seeing something. You can read about it till you're blue in the face but sometimes (mostly in my case Smiley: smile) it doesn't connect until you've seen it happen. And frequently the blurry videos you can call up are not that helpful. Maybe you have to just go along and stand in the fire a time or two to figure out how the strat you've read works on the ground.


Oh, I certainly agree. That's why if you read the journal then wipe the first time or so, I have absolutely no problem with that. It's often just better for learning if you see it in action. However, the issue I'm seeing is that many people aren't even bothering to make an effort, and thus are the idiots that can't tell where to stand or what to kill.
#18 Nov 30 2011 at 1:56 PM Rating: Good
AstarintheDruid wrote:
ekaterinodar wrote:
I have yet to try out the LFR (I'm now 2 ilvl points from trying it out), but I really, really wish Blizzard had done 10 mans (or even 15 mans?). This 25 man thing doesn't take a genius to realize how horribly terrific this is going to be at least half the time. I've tried leading some pug 25 mans and its hell on azeroth and I have full kick and loot powers. 25 random people is just totally unmanageable without any solid penalties for being an idiot.

For 10-man, the comp would either be 2 tanks, 6 DPS, and 2 healers, or maybe 2/5/3. In the first case, if one healer fails, the other healer has to solo heal the whole raid. In the second, DPS are actually going through the queue SLOWER than the dungeon finder, since there's only 2.5 DPS / tank instead of 3. It's just a lot easier to absorb fail in 25-man than it is in 10-man, even if you have more of it.


Pretty much. I don't have a whole lot of experience with 25 mans, as until this past January, I didn't have a computer that could handle them. And even now, the only time I do 25 mans is in BH because my guild does 10 mans. So they still FEEL like a *********** to me because it just seems like there's so much more going on even though there isn't. The benefits of doing the LFR as a 25 man is that the queue is shorter for dps and healers, and that it's easier to succeed if you have a few derpies. Unless one of the derpies is a tank.
#19 Nov 30 2011 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
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What is the required ilevel for the new raids? I'll guess 375?
#20 Nov 30 2011 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good
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372 I think.
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#21 Nov 30 2011 at 3:01 PM Rating: Good
Yup, it's 372.
#22 Nov 30 2011 at 4:09 PM Rating: Good
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Cobra101 wrote:
IDrownFish wrote:
Despite the fact that the dungeon journal spells it out for you, people still don't know fights.

It amazes me.


Not having done any Cata dungeons I didn't know about the journal so your post made me look at it.

It does seem a massive step forward but I still don't think it is a substitute for a guide or tactics briefing.

I looked at the first boss in BRC, Whatsit Bonecrusher, and the journal told me about him and his moves. Which is a whole lot better than asking what this boss does and getting no answer Smiley: smile

What it didn't say is what the tactic is for countering those moves. I had to look on Wowhead for that. Which is fair enough in my book.

Also from my past experience there is no real substitute for seeing something. You can read about it till you're blue in the face but sometimes (mostly in my case Smiley: smile) it doesn't connect until you've seen it happen. And frequently the blurry videos you can call up are not that helpful. Maybe you have to just go along and stand in the fire a time or two to figure out how the strat you've read works on the ground.


I actually prefer the dungeon journal now. Watching tankspot or reading detailed strategy guides leaves me feeling like I'm painting by numbers. With the journal I may fail a few times but when it clicks I feel like I've actually overcome a challenge. I purposely qued last night so I could get in before everyone had it figured out so I could actually develop a strategy and figure it out on the fly. It took a lot longer and some frustration but felt way more exciting than anything I have done in game for a long time.
#23 Nov 30 2011 at 4:35 PM Rating: Good
ekaterinodar wrote:
Cobra101 wrote:
IDrownFish wrote:
Despite the fact that the dungeon journal spells it out for you, people still don't know fights.

It amazes me.


Not having done any Cata dungeons I didn't know about the journal so your post made me look at it.

It does seem a massive step forward but I still don't think it is a substitute for a guide or tactics briefing.

I looked at the first boss in BRC, Whatsit Bonecrusher, and the journal told me about him and his moves. Which is a whole lot better than asking what this boss does and getting no answer Smiley: smile

What it didn't say is what the tactic is for countering those moves. I had to look on Wowhead for that. Which is fair enough in my book.

Also from my past experience there is no real substitute for seeing something. You can read about it till you're blue in the face but sometimes (mostly in my case Smiley: smile) it doesn't connect until you've seen it happen. And frequently the blurry videos you can call up are not that helpful. Maybe you have to just go along and stand in the fire a time or two to figure out how the strat you've read works on the ground.


I actually prefer the dungeon journal now. Watching tankspot or reading detailed strategy guides leaves me feeling like I'm painting by numbers. With the journal I may fail a few times but when it clicks I feel like I've actually overcome a challenge. I purposely qued last night so I could get in before everyone had it figured out so I could actually develop a strategy and figure it out on the fly. It took a lot longer and some frustration but felt way more exciting than anything I have done in game for a long time.


I agree wholeheartedly. The first thing I did when 4.3 launched was to queue for a LFR group without having looked up any of the fights. I just opened the dungeon journal and read what I saw, and figured the rest out as I went along. They have the most important stuff flagged as "important", and if you read only that, you actually have as pretty good idea of how the encounter is supposed to work.
#24 Dec 01 2011 at 4:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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The LFR groups are better than most of the pug raids on my server and I'm hoping this can only improve as more people become familiar with the fights. The fights are ridiculously easy, but it will certainly be a lot easier to run alts through than spending upwards of an hour trying to get a group together (assuming I can even find one that will let me in with my ilvl/lack of achievement) only to have it fall apart after the first boss (or if I'm really unlucky, on trash).

I'm ashamed to say that I was one of the failers in my raids last night. I queued as dps (on my only alt with high enough ilvl) and was expecting to have time to read the dungeon finder while I waited. Instead I got an almost instant group for a 2/8 raid and they were right in front of the boss, no tactics given just pulled. It was the ooze boss and I died as soon as they reached the boss (as I'd failed to notice everyone else had stacked up), got a BR towards the end of the fight and managed not to mess up after that. Next boss I had time to read the journal but wasn't expecting the ice waves to move around the room, so I died again (with at least 10 other raid members), that try was a wipe as they didn't have enough people to chain the lightning. Next attempt I moved correctly (I think we only lost 3 people to waves that time) and it was a pretty easy fight.

I re-queued for the first 2 bosses and had time to read up on tactics before the fight. We struggled a bit on orb bouncing, but killed it on the last try I had time for :) I feel sorry for the guy who ended up with raid leader for that though, he really was trying hard to get people moving/positioned correctly.

I'm looking forward to getting more alts geared up as I think this really will give me the opportunity to raid on them each week. Hopefully it will also improve the quality of pugs on my server as people will have the opportunity to practice the fights in easy mode, but I'm not going to get my hopes up too much for that :P
#25 Dec 07 2011 at 1:37 AM Rating: Excellent
Hm. Maybe it's actually not that bad. I just raid led a group of people who mostly hadn't seen any of the second half of the fights. We got all the way through and ended up downing Deathwing on the second attempt.

It was... actually not nearly as bad as I expected, and on top of it, it was pretty satisfying when people listened to what you told them to do. Someone even whispered me after the raid and thanked me for being an awesome raid leader.

I was just taken aback by how well the people responded when you just told them what to do. Granted, all throughout the fights I was spamming /rw and marking every little thing, but it was awesome.
#26 Dec 07 2011 at 3:46 AM Rating: Good
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IDrownFish wrote:
I was just taken aback by how well the people responded when you just told them what to do.



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