MoP and ICC: Repeating MistakesFollow

Yeah. Assume 4.3 drops end of November (Blizz ALWAYS drops things at the end of November, I know because my parents come out for Thanksgiving and I always have that itch to get them out so I can play new stuff, even though I know better). MoP has a bunch of ideas, but things only seem slightly more concrete than "path of the titans".

I think Blizzcon has the same detrimental effect on WoW that E3 has on... everyone else. They feel the need to have something big, regardless of the state of the product itself. The Argent Tournament was a disaster, but I think if they could figure out some similar kind of padding and make it work it would have been good to slip between Firelands and Dragon Soul. Something to eat a few more months, but somehow not throw everything else off-kilter.

I actually got to experience Cata in alpha stage, it was a neat experience. The alpha experience was much too "alpha" to make a call about where the expansion was heading. It was only once we were in closed beta and especially once the release date was announced that the beta community was like "ummm Blizzard unless you plan on dropping a major content patch for pve balance the week before release there is no way this is going to be a remotely balanced launch".

It is obvious the DIII for 12 month sub is mainly to shore up slumping subscriptions. I think anyone who is willing to argue that fact is disconnected from the reality of the situation. It is smart move and meshes well with the "return to firelands" and free play to lvl 20 model that they have been busting out as a means to hook people who have canceled their subscriptions and bring in new players as well.

I think the biggest concern is that Catacylsm was a dud. Once again, anyone that wishes to argue that is not closely connected to reality of the situation since Blizzard has tacitly admitted to it anyways at this point. Instead of releasing a product with a wide base of appeal they have released something which has already polarized an on the fence user base. Those who would stay with wow regardless of what they put out will, those thinking of coming back or thinking or leaving will probably not stick around for a sub par expac.






Edited, Oct 24th 2011 12:19am by bodhisattva

One thing that bothers me was ICC you could level an alt to max lvl and get it into ICC rather easily. LFD dungeons were short everyone in decent gear was OP to the dungeons there was a quick turn around to getting to ICC. The buff helped too. I think i had 3 or 4 toons 11/12 with Kingslayer on my main.

Cata not so much I have a lot of toons at 85, but no raiders. I would like to raid but you almost have to do the previous tier to gear enough to get into FL. Dungeons take forever even when over geared for them, So the pull to have multiple raiders is lost because of the timesink. The all dungeons give 140 VP will help this a bit but dungeons still take way to long.

From the amount of people signing up for the Annual pass, once beta hits A LOT of people are going to be in it, hopefully this will give Blizz a ton of data to balance it before it drops.

The way i see it is:
4.3 for 3/4 months > Diablo 3 for 1/3 months > Beta for 2/3 months

Guessing that 4.3 drops end of Novemeber I would guesstimate the MoP being out by August/Septemeber.

Im just guessing here so take it at face value. Hopefully Bliz doesnt make the 1 yr of 4.3.

I don't exactly understand why people are all surprised about this. They're sticking to their 2 year schedule like before, and everyone more or less following the news about WoW has known this since MoP had been trademarked this summer.

There will be several months of doing nothing, just like it was between ICC and Cataclysm, and even more so than it was this year, subsciption numbers are going to take a hit next summer.

Right there is where this huge 12 month commitment is fitting in. In March or April, when you're done killing Deathwing, you'll be playing Diablo until you get to make use of your guaranteed WoW beta access in August or so.

Next Blizzcon will then have the Diablo xpack announcement along with the huge MoP promotion, and since you'll conveniently be hooked to both by then, you'll be more excited than ever.

MoP WILL come next Winter, and the only question that remains is whether or not they'll manage to include everything the now announced right from the start. I have a feeling that things like the pet games will have to wait until 5.1, as well as half of the new battlegrounds.

They know damn well that they have to deliver, and the quality of MoP will most likely depend on how soon they get to release 4.3 so those development resources can be reassigned. Those resources are the reason why Abyssal Maw was canceled, not the BS about things not fitting in with the story.

I'm looking forward to 4.3, and I am quite excited about MoP. But just as much as Blizzard is sticking to their predictable release pattern, I will stick to my pattern of taking a break from the game the moment a patch gets stale.

It's gonna take a little longer than usual this time around, with random raids and all, but I just know that I'll get there again.

What concerns me, though, is the time after the expansion. I won't have any more alts to level other than 2 monks for Alliance and Horde each, and frankly, even if there was a race/class combination I'd be interested in, I don't think I could actually handle leveling with only getting talents and thus new stuff every 15 levels.

So... MoP is probably going to be MY last WoW expansion, regardless of whether or not Blizzard decides to keep going.

Oh, and just because I kinda know that it'll be coming soon enough: I won't be buying or subscribing to some remote service that'll allow me to play the pet games via browser or phone app from outside the main game. This whole idea has "Premium" and "Blizzard Store" written all over it already.

The whole thing feels unfinished - or at least poorly defined as of yet.

For example: What exactly does the Monk Class look like, play like, and do (dps? heals?)....?

I started a thread on this and frankly no one has provided any concrete answers. The best answer was a link to IDrownFish's original post - but his post was really just bullet points. Think about this.... This is the new class. It's 100% certain to be the flavor of the moment. Think about DK. This isn't a new race (which is essentially just a new model with some very minor racial bonuses) - this is an entirely new class. This will change everything from raiding to PVP and the most we know about it is about half a dozen bullet points and what somebody remembers from FFXI or EQ - Info that's both dated and from a completely difference source.

With respect to instances/raids... They really need to build content based on expected time to down it. Cata had far too few regular instances and heroics were brutally long. There were also far to many optional bosses. They need to stop calling bosses "Optional" and start to call them "Rarely done". These bosses are also exceptionally rarely done when their instances are exceptionally long. (Halls of O-my-God-this takes forever). They need to have about 6+ regular instances and 6-8+ heroics. This will take most average people a few weeks to farm. It will also provide a 'new' feel to heroics when you get a few new instances, but also provide more flex to your repetitive farming. There needs to be about 10-12 bosses PER TIER. I don't care if that's 1 big raid or 3 smaller raids... Anything more than that and you start to get people who won't remember the fights...

I'm not especially worried about the "art". The note from the OP had someone who was very focused on the Art of it. I'm not really worried about that.

The new "Talent Tree" worries me. I know it's still very prelim, but here's how I'm seeing it. The current system mostly offers buffs to your current abilities - Occasionally it will give you a new ability. There are a few abilities that you can only get if you choose one tree (Slow vs Blast Wave), but by in large, that generalization holds: You get buffs - Not abilities. The new system looks a lot like a list of the quasi-useful spells that don't make a spec. For example - Mage:
Tier 60 - Mana Shield - Blazing Speed - Ice Barrier (Shield)
Tier 75 - 3 different versions of Polymorph
Tier 90 - Blast Wave - Dragon's Breath - Slow

So tier 60 is kind of useless. While those things are helpful, they really aren't things I care about 90% of the time.
Tier 75 is effectively a "Glyph" for Sheep. There's really nothing more you can say about it.
Tier 90... Yeah, while Slow is a very ability and Blast Wave is great... DB isn't that helpful. So after 90 levels... I get to choose between 3 abilities I already had in TBC at 70. Awesome.

I don't know... It's just so.... Meh... This is it? This is all you've got?

I've also looked at Paly and I'm really not too thrilled there either.


Finally - 5 levels. There just isn't enough. Sure, they could dump more Stamina into things to make it appear that 90>85, but in reality - 5 levels just isn't enough. There is only so many times they can add another digit to your health... There is very little difference between a 30 and a 35. There is very little difference between an 80 and an 85. The only thing they changed is the gear. There was a HUGE difference between a 70 and an 80. Think about it... Blizz allows people to enter BGs together. When you see a level x1 you know that guy is worthless. However anyone who's x5 or greater is useful. That's because +/- about 5 levels isn't that big of a deal. You're at a disadvantage, but it's not stoopid. Think - Raid bosses in TBC were +4 right? Even if they weren't (I honestly don't recall - i'm just thinking of the old Def-Cap stuff)... Current bosses are +3. That's really not a big difference. They need 10 levels.




Edited, Oct 24th 2011 9:14am by Borsuk

Yeah - I wasn't sure about the boss numbers - but 3 or 4... Either way it's not much.


With respect to the new talent system. Let me put it a different way.

It's boring. So at 75, I get to choose between one of three helpful and interesting options for sheep. Every class now has a CC. Granted - Sheep is still arguably the best, but I've never had a need for any of the benefits. As it currently stands 99% of players will take the 'Double' sheep. There's no need to ever care about the health regen or the stun.

So... Wow... After spending all that time leveling. I get to choose one option that I really don't need anyway. (Like I said - Neither the Regen or the stun is that helpful and the Double, while nice, is entirely unneeded because CC is now on every class.)



I don't know. It's just not inspired. The choices or the options are all... Meh. From looking at my other toons' trees I'm seeing about 2-3 (MAX) choices that are interesting.

Mage -
15 = CoC or Lockjaw - Neither is especially needed.
30 = Probably take Cauterize (Inta-Invis really is only needed to save wipes and Snap appears to only help frost)
45 = Either Scorch or Flows (Based on Spec). PoM is a fun gimick, but not core. (Forget to make a Mana Gem?)
60 = None of these are core to my raiding
75 = Glyph of Sheep
90 = 3 things I had at 85 are now available at 90. This feels worse than getting Timewarp.

I want to ask - "This is what you've been working on? This is what you've got all those Devs doing?"

I need to spend some more time, but I'm not excited about the prospects of Paly either.

My assumption is that the new expansion will be released in November or October 2012. The 1 year subscription with a free mount and free game will be enough to attract a lot of players who would likely otherwise quit until the next expansion is released and Blizz is likely getting concerned about SWTOR which has well over 600k preorders and is still 2 months to launch.

1 year subscription commitment is a good way to lock in some revenue and I think it's likely that they will attract quite a few people with that option.

Which is where I fell TBH.

I was figuring I'd want to play something else in about 5-6 months time. Playing about 10hrs a week means I still have a lot I'd like to do and see in WoW at this point, and I doubt even if I play through the year commitment that'll I'll get anywhere near exhausting the content.

Both SW:TOR and D3 were on my radar somewhere for things to do afterward. The thing is that starting up any additional game costs money. I'd be out at least $40 to buy any sort of recent game out there, then you have the subscription fee for any MMO. D3 is going to cost something like $60? If so the $77/6mo that'd I'd be missing out on if I went into D3 full time and stopped playing WoW after it's release would be about the price of a mount and 6 month subscription to WoW anyway, and it's a break-even.

That has to be one of the truest things I have ever read, which says a lot about how warped our society has become. I also feel the need to include this in my signature.

I think this is what you heard about. Idrownfish had a link to it in the other thread as well.

They said that while there are only 5 zones they're pretty big ones; but over all I got the impression that the scale of the land they are adding is pretty comparable to other expansions.

Edited, Oct 24th 2011 11:52am by someproteinguy

Thanks for the link, guys. I knew I had seen or heard about that during Blizzcon.

Comparing it to TH is fine and everything. So it is about 3-5 times larger than TH which isn't bad at all.

I am curious how big it is compared to Northrend. Comparable? Or is NR a lot larger? It really doesn't bother me if it is smaller than NR since the 10 levels spent in NR could be as long (or a lot shorter) as the journey from 85 to 90. It's all about anything new for me, and not wondering if the expansion is going to be worth it or not.

What is worth anyway? It is never black and white. It's all about what the interest is per person if you are only talking about yourself. We all know how Blizzard asks everyone's opinion before they actually do anything (and then fix it later... or at least tries to). =P

this is how i look at it:

vanilla: nov 2004
tbc: dec 2006 jan 2007
wotlk: nov 2008
cata: dec 2010

mop: nov/dec 2012

book it, dano.

I don't think the NDA will really be an issue. I was in one of the first rounds of people for the beta of Cataclysm, and they lifted the NDA before the beta even started. The NDA was exclusive to the alpha. I don't see why they'd change it.

The rest of what you said, you're absolutely correct. There were people in the Cata beta, who got in based purely on luck or however it is that they pick people, and they still complained about bugs, eating up their allotted bandwidth due to the frequency of patches, zones not having quest rewards, etc. If Cata's beta had it, you can bet your *** that a lot of these people getting into the beta of MoP "for free" are going to have the same reaction.