The Blizzcon Thread: Let there be PandasFollow

I think the part that's throwing me is "What happens with certain things that used to be talents? Will I still have Hot Streak and Ignite? Will Living Bomb be Fire Spec only? What about mana regen talents like Master of Elements...gone for good or native to certain specs? Burning Soul going inherent to all specs or even some specs?".

Etc.

By simplifying the talents again, this makes it easier to balance all (now 33) specs in the game, making it easier to fit monks into their roles competitively.

By the way, you're not bitter at all, by the looks of it.

Found some info by spending some time on the Oboards.

I'm not. This talent change crap is just something we've gone through each and every time now, and we ultimately ended up with just about the same as it was before.

I've never taken a break from the game because of changes like this. It has always been the feeling of not really getting anywhere anymore and being bored.

You can slap brand new fancy tires on an old car, but it's still gonna be an old car in the end. Looks better maybe, but you're not changing the core, and you're unlikely to go any faster than before. Does it really matter whether you're running on Good Year or Bridgestone?

I just don't see them ever being able to put an end to cookie cutter builds. You'll always have them, depending on the content you're interested in.

And as long as they don't drastically reduce the number of baseline abilities, the task of balancing it all is not going to get any easier.

But somehow I have come to see the whole talent thing as being something to demonstrate that someone is still actively working on the game. Each and every patch we're going through changes here and there, to the point of going back and forth between buffs and nerfs. It's getting old.

They're raising the level cap and adding new spells, so the timing of tossing things around once more is probably even pretty good.

What worries me though is that it might very well be another Cataclysm fiasco, where things are a total mess for the first few months, and you just can't figure out anymore what kind of game you're supposed to be playing.

MoP will most likely be my last WoW expansion, but that has something to do with the game concept in whole, not so much with the content they're delivering (or not).

I'm not bitter. Just a little tired of having inevitable changes being wrapped in some BS all the time.

In fact, I'm looking forward to 4.3 and 5.x, knowing that changing the talent trees won't have as much impact on the game as some people want to believe. We've gone through this how many times now?

It's that they're changing things without really changing anything. So regardless of how much enjoyment I might be getting out of the game in the near future, I just know that I won't really be in for the long haul anymore. The game is just moving in circles.

-raise the level cap
-add a race and/or class
-add some spells and toss out some old ones
-rework talent trees to look new
-add some dungeons and raids and/or polish up some old ones
-throw in some sideshows like professions, mounts, or achievements
-find a story that wraps those things up (don't possibly do it the other way around)

Those are the ingredients for a WoW expansion, and after having gone through the exact same recipe 3 times now and the whole thing turned out to be just as predictable as its scheduling, I just don't see myself hungering for a 4th course in the Blizzard WoW menu.

By ditching lockouts do they mean raid lockouts?

Also, they better keep FFB available to all mages. Or at the very least, frost and fire mages. Arcane really doesn't have much use for it.

I haven't seen anything about changing lockouts. Where did you see/hear that?

Mages (and all casters, for that matter) have to have some core abilities to get them from level 1 to 10. At level 10, it will work just like it does now, where you pick a Specialization, and you get some passives and an active ability. The only difference will be that you confirm your spec without having to pick a talent in that tree.

Also, it seems like each spec within a class will have a unique ability progression. It may even be, like in Kingdom Hearts, that there are some shared abilities, but you get them at different levels. Frost mages might get Ice Block at level 16, but arcane mages don't get it until 26, and fire mages at 36. It seems unlikely, though, since that would be more confusing than it is interesting.

If they're really cutting down on abilities for each spec, though, and talents are only once every 15 levels... what are they going to have for filler perks while you're leveling?

It was speculation regarding the possibility that mages(for instance) may not get Fireball/Frostbolt/ABlast without speccing into that school. The Lockouts they were referring to were spell school lockouts, like those that occur when you Counterspell a spell of a particular school.

Poldy, that actually sounds very nice. Though I'm sure the odd PvP Fire Mage will miss having Frostbolt (or is that no longer useful in PvP?).

Basically, it'll be like this? - Using Mage as an example, and sorry for the crappy design.

 
 
                          Arcane Blast    Slow 
                       --------------------------------- Arcane 
                      / 
  Basic              /    Fireball        Combustion 
--------------------X----------------------------------- Fire 
  Core spells        \ 
                      \   Frostbolt       Deep Freeze 
                       --------------------------------- Frost 
 

I used existing spells from the various current talent trees. It'll likely change, but it's just an example. The X is meant to display the point in leveling where you choose your specialization.

Is this how it'll be?

No, the problem isnt instant gratification. The boredom comes from having to do the very same things over and over to get anywhere at all. Way too much of the game is spent grinding, be that ore or herbs, valor points, reputation, or whatever else.

Unfortunately, other than giving things different names, nothing has been done to really change that. They're now even saying that it won't matter what or how you grind, but that's what you'll be doing to advance your character. Of course their wording made it look more appealing than what I just said, but that's essentially what it comes down to.

I'm missing depth in other areas. Why is there no breeding of pets and mounts? Why can't I just invest in a mining operation rather than having to go out and swing the pick myself while I should be killing some evil things? Why gather herbs if I could just grow them on my farm?

Instead, all the expansions are the same, and the more of the same they're "adding" to the game each time, the faster it's gonna be that people get bored with it.

It was alright for Burning Crusade as the first expansion, but both expansions after that were just like TBC in what they added, and MoP is just gonna be the same once more.

Regardless of how good and well balanced MoP turns out to be when it's released, I doubt that it will keep people interested for long before subscription numbers take a major hit again. The moment the excitement wears off and people find themselves doing exactly the same things they've been doing for several years now after reaching the maximum level, boredom will set in once more.

I'm still hoping this leads to 'interesting choices' as they claim. If things are too vague and unquantifiable they risk making talents meaningless. Choosing between 3 different CDs I'll likely never use isn't interesting.

I also assume that they will fully remove all elemental resistant enemies (I don't know if they have already)

There are still some metal constructs in BRD that are immune to fire damage, or at least resist 90% of it. Apparently because they're red hot or something.

Upside, though, is that frost spells do quadruple damage.