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Blizz and Holy Paladin in 4.2Follow

#27 Jun 23 2011 at 8:25 AM Rating: Good
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bodhisattva wrote:
Mazra wrote:
I know that Bodhi's rant with the model is more geared towards the simplicity and resulting boredom


I could write a thesis on Cata healing, but I will shy away from unleashing a gbaji~esque wall of text.

It was clunky, slow, tedious. All due to a paradigm change.

Something as simple as changing the cast time on the mana efficient heal from 1.5 seconds to 2.5 seconds has changed the whole dynamic. I don't think people realize how that shift reduced the amount of clutch moments in healing and made your choices very binary, despite the increase in spells and tools at your disposal as a healer.


I captured the essence, though, right?
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#28 Jun 23 2011 at 8:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bliz consistently denies that the team has lost designers or that the "A-Team" has been xfered to the new game (Titan), but from the 4 classes that I played with any level of real understanding, Mage, Paly, Druid, Priest... There's just too many plot holes in the designing.

It seems like 4.0 was planned to be a triage heal/tank game. Then somewhere in the planning, they realized that they'd completely missed the ball. They just didn't have it tuned and they reverted to what we have now.

Put another way - Imagine you're planning a dinner party for 4 people. You're going to be serving steaks. Then suddenly, just before the party is set to start, you are told that the guests are really 10 people. There is no way you can serve 10 people on 4 steaks, so you quickly break out the meat grinder, grind up the steaks and make meatballs. Everyone's got some pasta in the house and you can stretch the meat if you mix it with sauce and pasta...

The problem you face is that you'd been marinating that steak all day and now you're meatballs taste like they have steak sauce and liquid smoke in them. So you compensate by putting too much garlic, onion, basil and oregano in the pasta sauce....

In the end the meal isn't terrible, but all of the guests notice that it's just not right....
#29 Jun 23 2011 at 8:44 AM Rating: Decent
Borsuk wrote:
Put another way - Imagine you're planning a dinner party for 4 people. You're going to be serving steaks. Then suddenly, just before the party is set to start, you are told that the guests are really 10 people. There is no way you can serve 10 people on 4 steaks, so you quickly break out the meat grinder, grind up the steaks and make meatballs. Everyone's got some pasta in the house and you can stretch the meat if you mix it with sauce and pasta...

The problem you face is that you'd been marinating that steak all day and now you're meatballs taste like they have steak sauce and liquid smoke in them. So you compensate by putting too much garlic, onion, basil and oregano in the pasta sauce....

In the end the meal isn't terrible, but all of the guests notice that it's just not right....
The problem is the host should have sliced the steaks and make "steak fajita", meat balls was a bad idea.
#30 Jun 23 2011 at 9:01 AM Rating: Good
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Bliz consistently denies that the team has lost designers or that the "A-Team" has been xfered to the new game (Titan)


Didn't they acknowledge several months ago that most of the original designers were working on Titan?
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#31 Jun 23 2011 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
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Bliz consistently denies that the team has lost designers or that the "A-Team" has been xfered to the new game (Titan)


Didn't they acknowledge several months ago that most of the original designers were working on Titan?



They may have - I don't honestly keep too up to date. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected...

The point I was trying to make was that they seem to constantly reinforce the idea that the WoW team is top-line, best-in-class, etc... I am sure that they are good. I'm just saying it seems like recently there are a lot of wonky issues...

*The Fajita idea would have worked... The "Fajita" idea would be akin to the placement of the Argent Tourney. The original goal was to have the Tourney. (Like it or not - they planned that as the raid). The change (The Fajita change ~ meaning successful revision) was to place the Tourney in Ice Crown. Was it a little sloppy - yeah. But it was way better than the original plan to place it just outside of Dala - thus further dragging zone performance down. It wasn't perfect, but it was an example of a change that, while not perfect, was done well.
#32 Jun 23 2011 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
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I'm positive I read that a Blizz official said that the development team hadn't changed. People left and were replaced over the years, but they denied having moved anyone but the "number crunchers" over to Titan.

Believe it was mentioned after several people made some threads on the subject.
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#33 Jun 23 2011 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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I feel like we have set our company up to succeed on that. We have some of our most talented and most experienced developers on that team. Many of the people that built World of Warcraft are full time on that other team."

That expertise in working with the most successful MMORPG in the world for the past several years will prove vital for the success of the new MMO. Sams assured that World of Warcraft is still under the watch of experienced staff, even though key members are moving onto Titan.

"We've spent a lot of time over the last number of years transitioning those people off [of World of Warcraft], and having great people below them that were trained up by them to run World of Warcraft," Sams said. "Those people have been doing it for the last couple of years without the assistance of those people that created it."


Frankly, I'm more inclined to believe their original statement.
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#34 Jun 23 2011 at 12:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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In a PR interview about "Titan", Blizard COO says they have some of their best people on Titan. Did you expect them to say anything else? "We've hired a brand new team of inexperienced MMO Devs/Devs that worked on games that weren't in the same league as WoW" doesn't really get me excited about Titan. To me, it sounds like about as politically neutral of a statement as he could make.

More than likely, they started filling in the new team for Titan first by offering transfers/promotions to existing staff. In some cases, they may have specifically looked for devs from other MMOs that did something in another game that Blizzard would like to incorporate in Titan.
#35 Jun 23 2011 at 3:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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I figure it isn't one of those either/or things. I'll work on multiple projects for different clients at the same time. There's many ways you could claim a talented person is on both teams.

Randomly made up hypothetical examples:

Developer from WoW alpha has been with Blizzard for several years. He got a promotion a few years back and now oversees some people working on both projects.

Person who does artwork is designing a couple of weapons for both games.

Experienced person who has worked on WoW for many years attends weekly meeting with Titan people and acts as a consultant.


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#36 Jun 23 2011 at 3:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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There's no room for your rationale and logic here, Protein!
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#37 Jun 23 2011 at 3:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
There's no room for your rationale and logic here, Protein!


I know, I really need to work on my nerd rage more...

hmmm...

GC ON TITAN GG BLIZZ U MADE WOW DED 2 ME NAO U NERF AL GUD CLASS MAEK MAGE AB SPAM, LOL WUT!? Smiley: mad

well...

um... no...

Yeah I suck at it... Smiley: frown
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#38 Jun 23 2011 at 3:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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GC ON TITAN GG BLIZZ U MADE WOW DED 2 ME NAO U NERF AL GUD CLASS MAEK MAGE AB SPAM, LOL WUT!?

Frak, you just crit my face.


+1
#39 Jun 23 2011 at 3:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
I know, I really need to work on my nerd rage more...
Okay, here's what you do.
  • Find Avengers Comics. The original series from the 1960s.
  • Read them thoroughly.
  • Read them all thoroughly. All 50ish years worth.
  • By the time you're done, Avengers The Movie should be out. See it Release Day.
  • Enjoy the Nerd Rage.
While I am not allowed to mention it directly, there are torrents of ways to obtain the necessary materials required for your training. So cost isn't really an issue.

Edited, Jun 23rd 2011 5:41pm by lolgaxe
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#40 Jun 23 2011 at 3:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Also, developer C who's been with WoW for a long time took a promotion that moved him from mid-level WoW dev to Titan team lead. Or high-level WoW dev is now project leader for Titan. I think it's highly unlikely that the team for Titan is entirely new, but I also doubt Blizzard is trying to shoot their own foot by taking all their top talent to Titan and leaving a skeleton crew of window-lickers running WoW.

The problem with any forum is that it constitutes an extreme minority of the player base. Bohdi could be (and usually is) right about how healing works for the top 5% of players, but that leaves the remaining 95% of players who may be having a completely different experience. I'm not happy about every decision they make, but I can live with that.
#41 Jun 23 2011 at 3:45 PM Rating: Good
someproteinguy wrote:

GC ON TITAN GG BLIZZ U MADE WOW DED 2 ME NAO U NERF AL GUD CLASS MAEK MAGE AB SPAM, LOL WUT!? Smiley: mad

well...

um... no...

Yeah I suck at it... Smiley: frown


No, that was pretty accurate actually. =x You wouldn't believe the amount of people QQing about the shadow priest changes on the o-boards. People concerned about the lack of hit and spirit on cloth gear for Firelands I totally get. People saying that we're already doing sub-par damage and whining about more "nerfs" are hilarious. If you are doing sub-par damage as a shadow priest, urdoinitwrong.
#42 Jun 23 2011 at 5:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Mazra wrote:
I'm positive I read that a Blizz official said that the development team hadn't changed. People left and were replaced over the years, but they denied having moved anyone but the "number crunchers" over to Titan.

Believe it was mentioned after several people made some threads on the subject.


Kind of but not really, that's the best answer I can give.


For me it was the pacing that killed it.


Binary healing on HM's, poorly balanced stats (mastery/crit), poorly thought out and balanced tool set for healers, and releasing a game that was basically barely PTR ready in terms of overall balance at end game were just the build up.
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#43 Jun 23 2011 at 6:20 PM Rating: Good
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I was kind of, but not really, able to capture Bodhi's essence.

Selling handshakes, $10 a pop! Get them over in the Druid forum while the magic lasts!
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#44 Jun 24 2011 at 4:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
I was kind of, but not really, able to capture Bodhi's essence.

Selling handshakes, $10 a pop! Get them over in the Druid forum while the magic lasts!


This is kind of like the time you tried to sell magic through body friction, only cheaper and less likely to end in a conviction for statutory.
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#45 Jun 24 2011 at 6:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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bodhisattva wrote:
Mazra wrote:
I was kind of, but not really, able to capture Bodhi's essence.

Selling handshakes, $10 a pop! Get them over in the Druid forum while the magic lasts!


This is kind of like the time you tried to sell magic through body friction, only cheaper and less likely to end in a conviction for statutory.


I had the "victims" on my side. They said it truly was magic.

Smiley: waycool
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#46 Jun 24 2011 at 9:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
They said it truly was magic.



We all know where you hid that rabbit Mazra.
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#47 Jun 25 2011 at 6:44 AM Rating: Good
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Wascally wabbit!
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#48 Jun 25 2011 at 10:49 PM Rating: Good
#49 Jun 25 2011 at 11:04 PM Rating: Good
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Lol, I've only really done a trial. Maz ACTUALLY plays.

But yeah, people are PISSED. My sister's fiancee plays, and there's literally no one happy with this new expansion. Everyone who would have been happy with some of the design changes are just too angry about this. :P

Which, frankly, I would be too.
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#50 Jun 27 2011 at 1:52 PM Rating: Good
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Meh, the EVE community is the whiniest bunch of ******** I've ever come across.

I'll cry about micro-transactions and injustice once it's actually here and not just a leaked document. Right now it's just vanity items which I don't give a **** about.
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#51 Jun 27 2011 at 2:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
Meh, the EVE community is the whiniest bunch of @#%^wits I've ever come across.

I'll cry about micro-transactions and injustice once it's actually here and not just a leaked document. Right now it's just vanity items which I don't give a sh*t about.


You could say the same thing about any MMO community. Smiley: tongue

You do have to admit, selling in-game clothing for more than they're selling RL company logo t-shirts for is either pure genius, or ******** insane.

I'm inclined to go with ************** insane."
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