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"How was school today?" "I played WoW."Follow

#1 Jan 24 2011 at 6:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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http://wow.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=24941

That's pretty awesome if you ask me. While is may not help you become a doctor or engineer it could still help develop some useful skills. At least I like the way they put the class together with teaching them different writing styles and what not. I definitely would have loved to have been in a class like that, something I like doing and something I know I would feel comfortable sharing with to other classmates.

Thoughts?
#2 Jan 24 2011 at 6:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Idea is good, though I'm curious about A) where it's headed and B) why it was newsed now. Maybe I missed something, but when I browsed their site and forum I noticed how the average topic had 0 replies and how the last edits and significant updates were six months old.
#3 Jan 24 2011 at 9:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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In general it's better for retention to teach language, writing, and critical reading skills with something that the audience will enjoy and relate to than it is to batter them with Steinbeck year after year despite the fact that The Grapes of Wrath sucks. For the writing aspect, I would not be using WoW as a model for storytelling, but it's not an advanced writing class and it sounds like the goal is more along the lines of looking at the classic heroic cycle, which works fine, along with essay writing, which you can teach with anything. So thumbs up.

And if it gets more people actually spelling out the word "you" in trade chat, bonus.
#4 Jan 24 2011 at 10:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Every other post I read from you adds a bit to the vision of "spectacled Teacake, teacher of English literature" I have in my head.

Is there anything English older than ten years you haven't read?
#5 Jan 24 2011 at 10:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Communication, teamwork and resiliency (the real trait, not that thing for PvP) are very important skills to master to become a successful engineer, doctor or scientist.

A good teacher will motivate students with whatever is interesting to them, but I don't think centering a class around playing WoW is a good idea. "History of Video Games" or "Role Playing Games and The Hero's Journey" would be better ideas for classes, and would still allow students to write poetry in their avatar's voice, or write an essay on why a shaman should use a slow speed weapon if they wanted to. I did a final project for a college architecture class on the architectural quirks of Asheron's Call (like why would you want beds in an MMO where no one sleeps). At some point, that kind of thing will be normal.

But yeah, Grapes of Wrath. Bleh!
#6 Jan 25 2011 at 7:30 AM Rating: Good
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A friend of mine did his senior thesis on the Lord of the Rings.

It's not Ivy League, but this was at Villanova.
#7 Jan 25 2011 at 7:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mozared wrote:

Is there anything English older than ten years you haven't read?


As you specify "English," there's no reason to bring up my great rancor toward Tolstoy and my refusal to ever finish Anna Karenina.
#8 Jan 25 2011 at 7:59 AM Rating: Good
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I have no idea what the hell you guys are talking about.

And it makes me kinda happy.
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#9 Jan 25 2011 at 8:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think I'm one of the weird kids who enjoyed reading classics o_O

Of course, I also read a ton of fantasy/medieval novels as a kid. I laughed the other day because my girlfriend had never heard of the word "Bastion." Then I realized that outside of games or fantasy novels, I wouldn't have either. I attribute my love of economics to being addicted to Sim City and Sim City 2000. Love of politics probably due to Final Fantasy Tactics.

While I think WoW could be a good outlet, it carries a lot of potential problems. As a teacher you can only control what your kids read in guild chat, not at all what they read in general chat. And grammar and typing is terrible in general. I could see it being dangerous unless it was used on a private server, which is obviously illegal.
#10 Jan 25 2011 at 8:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
I think I'm one of the weird kids who enjoyed reading classics o_O


Shut UP, that is NOT weird. My Charles ******* action figure told me so. (Yep, that's right.)

LockeColeMA wrote:
As a teacher you can only control what your kids read in guild chat, not at all what they read in general chat.


Can't you use parental controls to specify which channels they can join? I would think you'd need a lot of parental control type things in place for liability reasons, as the photo shows them playing in a computer lab type environment we can assume is school property with the school's network and computers. And how would the accounts work? Does the school purchase a license and pay the subscription fees for all the accounts? I can't imagine finding budget for that during the present crunch, but I can't imagine them requiring students to lay out that kind of cash for a course available in a public school either. I wonder how they're working it.

This sort of thing would be good enough PR for Blizz that if it got any traction, I wouldn't be surprised if they were willing to donate/comp things like subcriptions and maybe even set up servers solely for this use. Think of the gold to be mined in having a video game, something many parents have vaguely evil associations with and are hesitant to buy their kids, legitimized as something taught in schools right beside Shakespeare.

Edit: If anyone is curious, they explain all that here. The school appears to be paying for the accounts and just associating one with each computer in their lab. When the school year ends, they clear out that account's characters so it can start fresh for the next student. Against TOS, no?


Edited, Jan 25th 2011 9:34am by teacake
#11 Jan 25 2011 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
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I was never big into reading and while we had to read the norm, Romeo and Juliet and such we didn't seem to have to read as much as other people. I really can't remember what all I had to read. I know I didn't have to read Grapes of Wrath or Catcher in the Rye. I remember having to read some book with "King" in the title, shows how much of the book I actually read.

I actually started reading some of them when I get out of school, like, Fahrenheit 451, The Invisible Man, The Island of Dr. Moreau. Nice short ones I know.
#12 Jan 25 2011 at 10:16 AM Rating: Good
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teacake wrote:
In general it's better for retention to teach language, writing, and critical reading skills with something that the audience will enjoy and relate to than it is to batter them with Steinbeck year after year despite the fact that The Grapes of Wrath sucks.


I’m a fan of Steinbeck, though I’d champion East of Eden or Of Mice and Men over Grapes of Wrath for pleasure reading. Grapes gets taught so much because it is a vivid portrait of an important part of US history and because the varied interchapters show a lot of different literary techniques. But it’s fairly preachy.

Speaking of books related to Warcraft and to social justice, y’all need to read Cory Doctorow’s novel “For the Win”. It’s an action-adventure that looks at the shadow economy associated with online gaming--gold farming, to oversimplify--from a perspective that most of us lack.
#13 Jan 25 2011 at 10:51 AM Rating: Decent
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teacake wrote:


Edit: If anyone is curious, they explain all that here. The school appears to be paying for the accounts and just associating one with each computer in their lab. When the school year ends, they clear out that account's characters so it can start fresh for the next student. Against TOS, no?



The TOS was created to protect the game from malicious use, not to be applied literally and directly in every possible situation. I don't see why this is relevant.
#14 Jan 25 2011 at 10:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mozared wrote:
Every other post I read from you adds a bit to the vision of "spectacled Teacake, teacher of English literature" I have in my head.
Why did you do this? Now I'm here at the office with a picture in my mind of this woman with her jet black hair tied up in a bun, holding the frame of her oversized glasses with one hand and pulling them down slightly, and looking over them at me with a smile that has just a hint of "come hither."

I'm going to stop the description here in order to keep the "G" rating, but I'll give you a hint. White blouse with lots of ruffles on the front with the top two or three buttons not done.




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#15 Jan 25 2011 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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Jordster wrote:
The TOS was created to protect the game from malicious use, not to be applied literally and directly in every possible situation. I don't see why this is relevant.


Rules are rules.

And the point with having written regulations is that you can apply them literally and directly in every possible situation. Whether Blizzard would want to make an exception here is one thing, but as long as they haven't then this system falls under the regulations specified in the TOS.

Rules are rules.
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#16 Jan 25 2011 at 11:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
Love of politics probably due to Final Fantasy Tactics.


Realpolitik has nothing on that story. Still one of my favorite FFs.

Quote:
Governments falsify history only so it favours them. But you can't blame them. Because people always hope for a 'miracle'. Endlessly complaining, lazy, nuisances... that's what the masses really are. Governments give the people what they want... and history repeats itself. Governments might well have taken advantage of their insecurity... but then again, people are satisfied being used... 'God' is nothing but an image created out of their insecurity. It's their fault for knowing they're comfortably numb, and not doing anything about it.


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You don't understand how hard it is to fulfill your ideals. Even if your ideals are great, they're just dreams if you can't fulfill them! So how can you fulfill them? You need power! That's the politics of the world! I can see it clearly now! You can't fulfill your dreams without power! You say I'm a dog of the church! Go ahead!! I don't care. You can all despise me, but I'll be laughing at the end! You'll all submit to me!




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#17 Jan 25 2011 at 11:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm sure that if it's a TOS violation Blizz is willing to overlook it in the interest of education. I was just curious how they were doing it was all. I think this is really neat and I'm all for it, but I'm surprised this guy got his school to pay 3 grand for this during a time of such strenuous cuts. I'd have thought any proposal with the words "video game" in it would've been rejected out of hand.
#18 Jan 25 2011 at 11:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Mazra wrote:
Jordster wrote:
The TOS was created to protect the game from malicious use, not to be applied literally and directly in every possible situation. I don't see why this is relevant.


Rules are rules.

And the point with having written regulations is that you can apply them literally and directly in every possible situation. Whether Blizzard would want to make an exception here is one thing, but as long as they haven't then this system falls under the regulations specified in the TOS.

Rules are rules.


Higher order moral thinking (post-conventional, as per Kohlberg) dictates that laws and rules were created for specific purposes. Those who have ascended to the highest level of moral reasoning choose to follow (or not follow) rules based on their own abstract principles.

We all choose which rules we are going to follow and which we are going to bend. Those of us with a strong social conscience will break rules as long as we believe we are not harming anyone. I break WoW rules from time to time when I log onto my friends' account to craft something for myself, with their permission, of course. (I don't actually do that any more because logging on from a distant geographical location will trigger an anti-hacking defense and the person will have to reset their password via email confirmation). I also smoke pot, even though it's still illegal where I live. Oh and I speed when I drive, often cruising 20 km/h over the limit when conditions permit.

You follow rules because they are rules, but rules are enforced for a specific reason or set of reasons. Blizzard could ban all of those accounts, but they won't. I think they'd much rather do a community spotlight feature on it to try to boost their image.

If you really believe that rules are rules, make sure you don't exceed the speed limit by 1 km/h on your way home from work. Rules are rules...

Edited, Jan 25th 2011 12:33pm by Jordster
#19 Jan 25 2011 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
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Jordster wrote:
If you really believe that rules are rules, make sure you don't exceed the speed limit by 1 km/h on your way home from work. Rules are rules...


Uh, yeah, I will. Speed limits are there for a reason.

Two years ago I saw one of the students at my school get wrapped around a pizza delivery truck. I'm fairly certain the driver was sure the conditions permitted his speeding. Girl was an exchange student from China. Flew her parents over so they could shut off her ventilator.

Fun times.

Edited, Jan 25th 2011 6:44pm by Mazra
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#20 Jan 25 2011 at 12:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jordster wrote:

Higher order moral thinking (post-conventional, as per Kohlberg) dictates that laws and rules were created for specific purposes. Those who have ascended to the highest level of moral reasoning choose to follow (or not follow) rules based on their own abstract principles.


I always found it odd that on some level as long as you felt it was in societies best interest you could break the rules and argue you were on a higher moral footing with Kohlberg reasoning. Not a literal translation as such, but it always stuck out at me as a kind of moral loophole. But perhaps I'm still just viewing it through eyes that see it being used merely as a justification for civil disobedience more often than not.
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#21 Jan 25 2011 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Mazra wrote:
Jordster wrote:
If you really believe that rules are rules, make sure you don't exceed the speed limit by 1 km/h on your way home from work. Rules are rules...


Uh, yeah, I will. Speed limits are there for a reason.

Two years ago I saw one of the students at my school get wrapped around a pizza delivery truck. I'm fairly certain the driver was sure the conditions permitted his speeding. Girl was an exchange student from China. Flew her parents over so they could shut off her ventilator.

Fun times.



Right. Just guessing - you don't drive?

I've been driving for ... umm ... about 13 years now. I have yet to cause an accident. When I say "appropriate for the conditions" I necessarily mean "not in a school zone" (I'm a teacher, after all). If I'm driving along a major highway on a clear summer morning with few other cars in sight, I'm not going to do 99 km/h ... I drive a pseudo-sports car. It is capable of maintaining a safe driving line at 200 km/h+. I use my judgment, settle on 120 km/h, and go about my day.

If a cop wants to pull me over, so be it. I would never do anything to endanger another human being, at least nothing reasonably within my control. I can't speak for other people, who may or may not be as smart as me ...Haha!

Sorry about the exchange student. I hate stories of stupidity that end up with someone getting killed. Drunk drivers **** me off more than anything. So do over-aggressive and/or young drivers who think that their 3 months of driving experience makes them some kind of pro.
#22 Jan 25 2011 at 12:13 PM Rating: Decent
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someproteinguy wrote:
Jordster wrote:

Higher order moral thinking (post-conventional, as per Kohlberg) dictates that laws and rules were created for specific purposes. Those who have ascended to the highest level of moral reasoning choose to follow (or not follow) rules based on their own abstract principles.


I always found it odd that on some level as long as you felt it was in societies best interest you could break the rules and argue you were on a higher moral footing with Kohlberg reasoning. Not a literal translation as such, but it always stuck out at me as a kind of moral loophole. But perhaps I'm still just viewing it through eyes that see it being used merely as a justification for civil disobedience more often than not.


The principles do not exempt people from laws... If someone is going to hold you in violation of something, your moral reasoning does not come into play. But if you make smart decisions, it will probably never be challenged.

...

I'm supposed to be grading exams right now. This argument is not even fun, but more fun than looking at ANOTHER 10th grade comp sci exam :(
#23 Jan 25 2011 at 12:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm sorry Maz, that's tragic. It hardly makes a good case-study for speed limits, though. A "safe" driving speed is affected by too many factors to ever fit on a single road-side sign. Besides road conditions, you have the driver's experience and reaction time, the vehicle being driven, it's gross weight and braking distance, cornering, etc, all affecting what a "safe" speed is. That's no small part of the reason speed limits feel so arbitrary, and why they're so often ignored. And if you want to limit the definition of "safe" speed to a speed where you are guaranteed to walk away after a wreck, you should keep in mind that a collision as slow as ~10 mph is enough to rupture an aortic anuerism (basically a weak spot in the wall of a major blood vessel).

That's also neglecting the hundreds or thousands of small communities that will drop the posted speed limit on an otherwise uneventful stretch of road with the sole purpose of catching people that don't change speeds quickly enough and generating revenue from the citations. That won't be part of the official reason for having a reduced speed limit, but it's still there.
#24 Jan 25 2011 at 12:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jordster wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:

Jordster wrote:


Higher order moral thinking (post-conventional, as per Kohlberg) dictates that laws and rules were created for specific purposes. Those who have ascended to the highest level of moral reasoning choose to follow (or not follow) rules based on their own abstract principles.


I always found it odd that on some level as long as you felt it was in societies best interest you could break the rules and argue you were on a higher moral footing with Kohlberg reasoning. Not a literal translation as such, but it always stuck out at me as a kind of moral loophole. But perhaps I'm still just viewing it through eyes that see it being used merely as a justification for civil disobedience more often than not.


The principles do not exempt people from laws... If someone is going to hold you in violation of something, your moral reasoning does not come into play. But if you make smart decisions, it will probably never be challenged.

...

I'm supposed to be grading exams right now. This argument is not even fun, but more fun than looking at ANOTHER 10th grade comp sci exam :(


Well sure, but hey it's the reasoning over actions anyway ya? It's less important how you act as long as you're convinced you have the proper moral justification for what you're doing based on your perceptions of what others hold as important. Smiley: rolleyes

Awww, well okay. I was having fun though. Smiley: frown I don't even get to go into how culture specific or gender specific some of his though process was? (If you can tell I was never a huge fan of his... Smiley: wink)

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#25 Jan 25 2011 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good
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Higher order moral thinking (post-conventional, as per Kohlberg) dictates that laws and rules were created for specific purposes. Those who have ascended to the highest level of moral reasoning choose to follow (or not follow) rules based on their own abstract principles.


That's a pretty obvious flaw to have in your theory, don't you think? It doesn't hold in cases where there are multiple legislators/rule-makers, as you will find an array of often contradictory purposes muddied by whip and compromise. Even when there's only one, one must be capable of divining this 'purpose' as applied to the specifics of the situation.

Come to think of it, I don't remember this forming any part of Kohlberg's theory as it was articulated to me. Are you sure you're not misrepresenting it?
#26 Jan 25 2011 at 3:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jordster wrote:
I've been driving for ... umm ... about 13 years now. I have yet to cause an accident. When I say "appropriate for the conditions" I necessarily mean "not in a school zone" (I'm a teacher, after all). If I'm driving along a major highway on a clear summer morning with few other cars in sight, I'm not going to do 99 km/h ... I drive a pseudo-sports car. It is capable of maintaining a safe driving line at 200 km/h+. I use my judgment, settle on 120 km/h, and go about my day.


I have no doubt you're an excellent driver, Jord. I'm sure most people believe themselves to be excellent drivers. Hell, I believe myself to be an excellent driver. Yet, accidents do happen. A lot of them.

AstarintheDruid wrote:
A "safe" driving speed is affected by too many factors to ever fit on a single road-side sign. Besides road conditions, you have the driver's experience and reaction time, the vehicle being driven, it's gross weight and braking distance, cornering, etc, all affecting what a "safe" speed is. That's no small part of the reason speed limits feel so arbitrary, and why they're so often ignored. And if you want to limit the definition of "safe" speed to a speed where you are guaranteed to walk away after a wreck, you should keep in mind that a collision as slow as ~10 mph is enough to rupture an aortic anuerism (basically a weak spot in the wall of a major blood vessel).


It's true that the limits don't dictate the speed at which driving becomes perfectly safe, but they help. 20 km/h can mean the difference between stopping in time and crashing right through. It's not so much whether someone will die at 50 km/h or 70 km/h, it's whether or not the driver will be able to stop or avoid in time. Once the accident happens, it's going to hurt regardless. Hell, you could fall on your face and die from a concussion.

Also, why the hell are we talking speed limits in a discussion about whether or not the TOS applies to everything regardless of intentions?

Edit: And it would appear I might have misunderstood the meaning of the phrase 'rules are rules'. I did not intend to say that rules should always be followed, I meant to say that rules apply to everyone regardless of intentions. Which goes for speed limits as well. And judging by your posts, you seem to be of the same impression, so we're arguing over nothing really.

Edited, Jan 25th 2011 10:42pm by Mazra
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