On my pally, I can't remember spell names for the life of me.
All my other characters I'm good about though.
Sometimes, it just happens.
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Tanking and Healing Questions for CataFollow
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Nah, I press 2 3 5 1 1 2 1 1 1 2 1 2 4 2 1 1 1 2 to make stuff die.
My Shaman is: F, 5, 3, 1, 4, repeat. Press 2 when aura lights up. Press Shift-F to win while AFK.
My Druid is something like:
T, ½, 3, Shift-E, 4, 2, Shift-F, 2, 2, 2, Ctrl-F, 4, repeat.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
I heal by uttering an uncontrolled slur of swear words and pounding my fists in the general vicinity of my keybinds.
Sometimes I CC stuff or chat in /g.
Actually I'm happy those 8 different spells all have a use now...
Sometimes I CC stuff or chat in /g.
Actually I'm happy those 8 different spells all have a use now...
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
JOHN ******* MADDEN!
jaysgsl wrote:
On my pally, I can't remember spell names for the life of me.
Hey, we all have problems trying to remember the difference between "Holy Hammer of Righteous Justice", "Righteous Hammer of Divine Light", and "Avenging Radiance of Holy Righteousness"...
I ended up with 7 lvl 80 toons by the end of WoLK. Surpisingly, I'm reasonably effective on all of them, including every healing class and every tanking class. My favs for WoLK were shammy healer and warrior tank, but I played them all from time to time.
Given that, I don't remember the exact name of every spell. The "big heal" spell for druid is the long green leaf and it's #6. As far as I'm concerned, that's good enough.
Given that, I don't remember the exact name of every spell. The "big heal" spell for druid is the long green leaf and it's #6. As far as I'm concerned, that's good enough.
@OP
Although I'm sure you have - it is insanely important that you reevaluate your old spells in light of huge, sweeping changes in mana efficiency and HPS. All classes got their quick heals nerfed to all hell, and are expected to switch between extremely low HPS/high HPM spells to mid HPS/mid HPM spells depending on the situation.
The real thing that everyone needs to pay attention to - but that the healer will pick up on the fastest - is damage sources. There are dozens and dozens of odd damage sources that will straight rip your group up. Queue music -- Damage reflections, buffs that explode, debuffs that explode, debuffs that reduce healing, debuffs that reduce casting speed, ground buffs that reverse damage, ground buffs that heal, ground buffs that deal damage, stacking damage modifiers, swapping damage modifiers, damage modifiers that seem to randomly switch who they're effecting, reverse damage reflections, wind up spells that do hundreds of thousands of damage, instant spells that do hundreds of thousands of damage, buffs that explode when the monster dies, debuffs that explode when the player dies, buffs that do pulse AoEs, buffs that do buffs, buffs that do debuffs, debuffs that do buffs, debuffs that do debuffs, and about a hundred others to add to the comically long list.
These spells happen in trash just as much as they happen in bosses. Learning the damage sources to your group can help SO much! It helps to know which monsters to CC, which to kill first, which to interrupt, which to dispell, and which debuffs on your own group are worth the time and mana to dispell. This can really only happen by going back over the combat logs when you wipe, and paying attention. It just takes time.
Although I'm sure you have - it is insanely important that you reevaluate your old spells in light of huge, sweeping changes in mana efficiency and HPS. All classes got their quick heals nerfed to all hell, and are expected to switch between extremely low HPS/high HPM spells to mid HPS/mid HPM spells depending on the situation.
The real thing that everyone needs to pay attention to - but that the healer will pick up on the fastest - is damage sources. There are dozens and dozens of odd damage sources that will straight rip your group up. Queue music -- Damage reflections, buffs that explode, debuffs that explode, debuffs that reduce healing, debuffs that reduce casting speed, ground buffs that reverse damage, ground buffs that heal, ground buffs that deal damage, stacking damage modifiers, swapping damage modifiers, damage modifiers that seem to randomly switch who they're effecting, reverse damage reflections, wind up spells that do hundreds of thousands of damage, instant spells that do hundreds of thousands of damage, buffs that explode when the monster dies, debuffs that explode when the player dies, buffs that do pulse AoEs, buffs that do buffs, buffs that do debuffs, debuffs that do buffs, debuffs that do debuffs, and about a hundred others to add to the comically long list.
These spells happen in trash just as much as they happen in bosses. Learning the damage sources to your group can help SO much! It helps to know which monsters to CC, which to kill first, which to interrupt, which to dispell, and which debuffs on your own group are worth the time and mana to dispell. This can really only happen by going back over the combat logs when you wipe, and paying attention. It just takes time.
I always find threads like this difficult to comment in. The OP states he has been playing since Vanilla and I have only been playing since WotLK, and I am far from exceptional, so I can assume he knows at least as much as me about watching debuffs and damage sources etc. So I wont comment any further on that.
Your main question is "Are Druids weaker in healing than other classes?" The simple answer is Yes. This has been proven at high levels of raiding where Druids have been consistently weaker than other classes. With the homogenization of the Healing classes it is especially concerning to see one class so much weaker.
Some people will tell you that a Druids shortfalls will only become apparent at high levels of raiding, but if a class is weaker in purples, it will be weaker in blues and greens too. You should be capable of doing Heroics on a Druid, but it will be harder than healing with other classes.
You said you struggled with the two heroics you were in, but we don't know which Heroics these were. It may be your bad luck that you were thrown into dungeons with real problem trash. The Healers in ToT can drag the first trash packs into long slugfests if your group fails at interrupting and the Sea Witches chain lightning hits like a truck on half your party. And the ogres in Deadmines can wreck a tank in seconds if the healer isnt bomb healing.
The one tip I can give to a healer is; dont react to damage. If you wait for your tank to take damage before you heal him, your cast times are so long that large amounts of damage can be taken before your heal hits. You have to predict where your heals are going to be needed most.
As to your question about Tanks, I can only give my views on their performances.
Warriors and Deathknights are the kings of AoE threat and damage and will outDPS most full time DPS classes. Paladins are respectable at AoE but need focus from the DPS, Bears need really focussed DPS and an efficient tank.
Single target threat from Paladins, Deathknights and Bears is unbreakable, but when running with a Warrior I occasionally need to lower my own threat at some point in the fight if my crits and procs are being particularly lucky.
All tanks appear to take similar amounts of damage, due to the larger health pools it is harder to tell when a tank is taking higher damage than normal. The incoming buff to bear armour may swing this in favour of Bears though.
Your main question is "Are Druids weaker in healing than other classes?" The simple answer is Yes. This has been proven at high levels of raiding where Druids have been consistently weaker than other classes. With the homogenization of the Healing classes it is especially concerning to see one class so much weaker.
Some people will tell you that a Druids shortfalls will only become apparent at high levels of raiding, but if a class is weaker in purples, it will be weaker in blues and greens too. You should be capable of doing Heroics on a Druid, but it will be harder than healing with other classes.
You said you struggled with the two heroics you were in, but we don't know which Heroics these were. It may be your bad luck that you were thrown into dungeons with real problem trash. The Healers in ToT can drag the first trash packs into long slugfests if your group fails at interrupting and the Sea Witches chain lightning hits like a truck on half your party. And the ogres in Deadmines can wreck a tank in seconds if the healer isnt bomb healing.
The one tip I can give to a healer is; dont react to damage. If you wait for your tank to take damage before you heal him, your cast times are so long that large amounts of damage can be taken before your heal hits. You have to predict where your heals are going to be needed most.
As to your question about Tanks, I can only give my views on their performances.
Warriors and Deathknights are the kings of AoE threat and damage and will outDPS most full time DPS classes. Paladins are respectable at AoE but need focus from the DPS, Bears need really focussed DPS and an efficient tank.
Single target threat from Paladins, Deathknights and Bears is unbreakable, but when running with a Warrior I occasionally need to lower my own threat at some point in the fight if my crits and procs are being particularly lucky.
All tanks appear to take similar amounts of damage, due to the larger health pools it is harder to tell when a tank is taking higher damage than normal. The incoming buff to bear armour may swing this in favour of Bears though.
Just 2 cp for you Ebany~
Pally tanks either spec/glyph into Single Target threat or AoE - they are devastatingly nasty AoE tanks if they want to be - at least on par with DKs, not sure about Warriors though. Also - Paladins can generate small bits of AoE threat consistently which makes it nice if, say, an easy group of mobs pats through and the Tank wants threat before the healer gets it.
As far as I know Bear fails at this pretty badly.
Pally tanks either spec/glyph into Single Target threat or AoE - they are devastatingly nasty AoE tanks if they want to be - at least on par with DKs, not sure about Warriors though. Also - Paladins can generate small bits of AoE threat consistently which makes it nice if, say, an easy group of mobs pats through and the Tank wants threat before the healer gets it.
As far as I know Bear fails at this pretty badly.
tzsjynx wrote:
As far as I know Bear fails at this pretty badly.
Oh, man, don't get me started.
Thrash is hopelessly useless compared to the other AOE tools in the game. Swipe has been reduced to something that barely holds aggro off the healer.
Bears are useless tanks for 80 levels and then become sub-par.
And that's ignoring the ridiculous self-healing of Paladins and Death Knights.
All patch changes considered (ignoring those that fixed balance issues), it seems like Ghostcrawler and his developers are getting tired of having to balance out Druids constantly, so they're moving towards just getting rid of it.
And before someone comes in with tales of how they easily hold aggro in their guild runs because they've got a Rogue or Hunter in the group, think about this: They nerfed Bear AOE because they didn't want them to use Swipe in their single target rotation. Death Knights and Paladins both use AOE in their single target rotation. Death Knights because Blood Boil talented gives the damage reduction, Paladins because Hammer of the Righteous hits harder than Crusader Strike with Inquisition or Avenging Wrath up. Even Warriors use Thunder Clap for single target fights, because it applies mitigation as well.
So why nerf Bear AOE if ever other tanking class still uses theirs in single target fights?
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Hehe Maz nobody is disagreein' with you man!
Gettin all defensive about bad bear tank =(
Gettin all defensive about bad bear tank =(
My post was more of an agreement than anything.
I'm pretty upset about the state of my class at the moment. I know that other long-time Druid players feel that they're still okay, but why do we have to settle for okay when others are awesome? Just because we can squeeze by with every trick in the book doesn't make our class fine.
And it's not a lot I'm asking for. Even with better AOE, we still have the least utility of the tanking classes. I don't think it's too much to ask for at least useful AOE.
I'm pretty upset about the state of my class at the moment. I know that other long-time Druid players feel that they're still okay, but why do we have to settle for okay when others are awesome? Just because we can squeeze by with every trick in the book doesn't make our class fine.
And it's not a lot I'm asking for. Even with better AOE, we still have the least utility of the tanking classes. I don't think it's too much to ask for at least useful AOE.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
TBH, about healing druids (like me), you will have some problems in heroics till you get to around 335~340 average Ilevel gear. After that, things start to be really easy and back to boring. Heroics just take too much time now to be even worth it.
I have 345 average Ilevel (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/aerie-peak/lothildin/simple), am not your best healer druid around (main spec is moonkin) and, right now, I just cant go OOM in any heroic. Even at the initial bosses at Blackwing Descent, I`m giving my Innervate to a pally healer (mostly in Omnitron Defense, Magmaw he can wack the boss and get mana back).
All I do now is stack LB in the tank, keep it rolling with Nourish or HT, Rejuv+Swiftmend+Efflourish and WG for group heals and some Nourish here and there. Tree form every CD, try to keep LB on more than one person (second tank, usually) for the longer you can.
We got Ominitron Defense to 300k health yesterday and I barelly got to 1/3 of my mana. Oh, yeah, this is in 10 man. Magmaw I never got below 50% mana and after we got ahold of the fight in the first day, we just one shot him last week and this week too.
25 man its a hole another history. There, we are pretty much a subpar tank healer. I just couldnt find a effective way of being a 25 man raid healer as druid in Cataclysm so far.
I have 345 average Ilevel (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/aerie-peak/lothildin/simple), am not your best healer druid around (main spec is moonkin) and, right now, I just cant go OOM in any heroic. Even at the initial bosses at Blackwing Descent, I`m giving my Innervate to a pally healer (mostly in Omnitron Defense, Magmaw he can wack the boss and get mana back).
All I do now is stack LB in the tank, keep it rolling with Nourish or HT, Rejuv+Swiftmend+Efflourish and WG for group heals and some Nourish here and there. Tree form every CD, try to keep LB on more than one person (second tank, usually) for the longer you can.
We got Ominitron Defense to 300k health yesterday and I barelly got to 1/3 of my mana. Oh, yeah, this is in 10 man. Magmaw I never got below 50% mana and after we got ahold of the fight in the first day, we just one shot him last week and this week too.
25 man its a hole another history. There, we are pretty much a subpar tank healer. I just couldnt find a effective way of being a 25 man raid healer as druid in Cataclysm so far.
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