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Patch 4.0.6 deployed on PTRs Follow

#27 Jan 06 2011 at 6:32 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I was talking about Combat Readiness and Smoke Bomb nerfs, which are pretty huge for PvP.


IBF.... Sup rogues. Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Quote:
Death Strike now heals for 15% of the damage sustained, down from 25%.


This was a tooltip fix.

But the biggest change of all!

Wizcleave gets nerfed by no longer being able to lust/hero or psuedo lust/hero! SUCK IT GOOD SIRS!

Dk fixes, dk nerfs. All in all I expected most of this, but IBF change was pretty sweet, now just lower the cooldown.

And dr00ds, I'm sorry but bare was nerfed because of pvp. So many people just went pounce blah blah rake bleeds, bare form mangle spam and became near impossible to kill.
#29 Jan 06 2011 at 6:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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ArexLovesPie wrote:
And dr00ds, I'm sorry but bare was nerfed because of pvp. So many people just went pounce blah blah rake bleeds, bare form mangle spam and became near impossible to kill.

So as a result, the best bear tanks can now match the threat of an adequate paladin and have far inferior cooldowns. Sorry, but get your PvP out of our PvE...
#30 Jan 06 2011 at 7:04 PM Rating: Good
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ArexLovesPie wrote:
Quote:
I was talking about Combat Readiness and Smoke Bomb nerfs, which are pretty huge for PvP.


IBF.... Sup rogues. Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Yeah, like I said, I don't care too terribly much since I've already made my hunter my main.
#31 Jan 06 2011 at 8:18 PM Rating: Good
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ugh, i've been feeling a real pull to drop this druid and go back to my warrior.
#32 Jan 07 2011 at 6:33 AM Rating: Good
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ElMuneco wrote:
So as a result, the best bear tanks can now match the threat of an adequate paladin and have far inferior cooldowns. Sorry, but get your PvP out of our PvE...


This.

Most nerfs in this game are results of PvP. I'm all for balancing the game to not be lopsided, but removing flavor spells and making one class a shadow of its former self in PvE because of PvP is where I start to rage.
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#33 Jan 07 2011 at 11:41 AM Rating: Excellent
IDrownFish wrote:
I noticed a complete lack of change for the Chaotic meta gem.

Gee, thanks Blizz.
.


latest patch notes:

Quote:
Jewelcrafting
Meta gems with the Chaotic and Relentless prefixes now have a requirement of 3 red gems.
New meta gems have been added: Agile Shadowspirit Diamond (Agility/3% critical damage), Reverberating Shadowspirit Diamond (Strength/3% critical damage), and Burning Shadowspirit Diamond (Intellect/3% critical damage). These new recipes are unbound and can drop from any Cataclysm creature. The new meta gems have a requirement of 3 red gems equipped.


3 reds, far better.
#34 Jan 07 2011 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
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I have to believe we are missing something in regards to the Bear nerf.

The last thing Blizzard wants to do is REDUCE the number of tanks playing the game. Given the length of time that most DPS has to wait in random Q for a tank, it would be game-breaking to REDUCE the number of tanks. If they make Bear less viable, some people will switch to cat DPS instead, or maybe resto, and then you end up with more DPS/healers Q'ing up and less tanks.

I'm just going to guess wildly that they are going to change the threat modifiers to keep Bears right where they are for tanking. It would make perfect sense. The purpose of Bear Form was never to dish out massive damage, but to absorb it. Nerfing the damage makes perfect sense, as long as you don't nerf the ability to generate threat.
#35 Jan 07 2011 at 3:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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To be honest, it wouldn't be all that surprising if Blizz completely ruins bear tanking before figuring that out.
#36REDACTED, Posted: Jan 07 2011 at 3:06 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Marking is the key, if you mark and can't keep agro, the class is broken. I have yet seen a bear loosing threat to mark target, unless undergear. The trash packs should be easy enough with CC to handle. The most important fight is the Boss, can Bears handle it? If yes, we don't have a problem.
#37 Jan 07 2011 at 3:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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RAWDEAL wrote:
Jordster wrote:

Nerfing the damage makes perfect sense, as long as you don't nerf the ability to generate threat.
Marking is the key, if you mark and can't keep agro, the class is broken. I have yet seen a bear loosing threat to mark target, unless undergear. The trash packs should be easy enough with CC to handle. The most important fight is the Boss, can Bears handle it? If yes, we don't have a problem.


Wrong...

If the Bear can't handle the trash then we have a problem. It doesn't matter if they can do the boss if the party can't even get that far. If the Bear isn't noticeably better on the Boss compared to every other tank, then it shouldn't be noticeably worse on the trash.
#38 Jan 07 2011 at 3:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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RAWDEAL wrote:
Jordster wrote:

Nerfing the damage makes perfect sense, as long as you don't nerf the ability to generate threat.
Marking is the key, if you mark and can't keep agro, the class is broken. I have yet seen a bear loosing threat to mark target, unless undergear. The trash packs should be easy enough with CC to handle. The most important fight is the Boss, can Bears handle it? If yes, we don't have a problem.

You're neglecting any boss mechanic where the tank needs to be able to pick up newly spawned adds and hold them off a healer that's potentially chain-healing the tank and DPS, or just hold them off DPS that have to burn the adds and get back to the main target. Single-target threat has never been the issue.
#39REDACTED, Posted: Jan 07 2011 at 3:17 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You have never played a Warrior in BC before...
#40 Jan 07 2011 at 3:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just because it has happened before, doesn't mean it is right, nor should it be repeated.
#41REDACTED, Posted: Jan 07 2011 at 3:35 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) QQ about a change without trying it is lame, Druid can do it all, don't' expect to be SPECIAL in all. The game needs off Tank also and Druid has the perfect spot for it in end game. If Druids can do it all best, why would have to level a Warrior, Priest or Mage?
#42 Jan 07 2011 at 3:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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RAWDEAL wrote:
EbanySalamonderiel wrote:
RAWDEAL wrote:
Jordster wrote:

Nerfing the damage makes perfect sense, as long as you don't nerf the ability to generate threat.
Marking is the key, if you mark and can't keep agro, the class is broken. I have yet seen a bear loosing threat to mark target, unless undergear. The trash packs should be easy enough with CC to handle. The most important fight is the Boss, can Bears handle it? If yes, we don't have a problem.


Wrong...

If the Bear can't handle the trash then we have a problem. It doesn't matter if they can do the boss if the party can't even get that far. If the Bear isn't noticeably better on the Boss compared to every other tank, then it shouldn't be noticeably worse on the trash.
You have never played a Warrior in BC before...

Bear tanking was the same in BC, with the added "benefit" that Swipe was only a frontal 180 and not a 360 like TC. You're not going to get very far around here trying to throw out "Back in BC..." because most of us played BC.
#43REDACTED, Posted: Jan 07 2011 at 3:50 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So Tanking is required more work, welcome to the Tank class. Don't expect to be as much efficient as a dedicated Tank one. Melee, long range, healer and Tank, Druids are Jack of all trade and master of none...Period!
#44 Jan 07 2011 at 3:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hey Rawdeal, you're an idiot. Please shut up.
#45 Jan 07 2011 at 4:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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If Druids were meant to be an OT we'd probably be better at picking up and holding lots of little adds, given how that's not an uncommon OT job and such.

One thing we do suck at though is CC, our utility spells are rather limited too. I run out of convenient places to keybind spells on my Warlock long before I run out of spells I want to hit. I can't say that for any of the Druid forms.
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#46 Jan 07 2011 at 4:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Hey Rawdeal, you're an idiot. Please shut up.


This. Blizzard made all classes to be relatively equal in their respective roles when properly geared and specced. If a Druid falls short, it's not because they are "a Master of None." Either the druid is bad, undergeared, or the class has issues.

Druids haven't had the moniker RAW gave them since vanilla and early TBC.
#47 Jan 07 2011 at 4:36 PM Rating: Good
The original datamined list included a lot of tooltip changes that already went through. Here's the real current list for druids:
Quote:
* Barkskin is no longer dispellable.
* Healing Touch is now trained at level 78, up from level 3.
* Lacerate damage has been reduced by approximately 20%.
* Mangle (Bear Form) weapon damage (at level 80+) has been reduced to 235%, down from 300%.
* Mangle (Cat Form) weapon damage percent (at level 80+) has been increased to 460%, up from 360%.
* Maul damage has been reduced by approximately 20%.
* Mount Up: This guild perk now applies to Flight Form and Swift Flight Form as well.
* Nourish is now trained at level 8, down from level 78.
* Omen of Clarity can no longer trigger from helpful spells (aka heals), unless the Restoration talent Malfurion's Gift is chosen.
* Rake damage has been reduced by 10%.
* Rejuvenation is now trained at level 3, down from level 8. In addition, its mana cost has been reduced from 26% to 16%.
* Rip damage has been reduced by 10%.
* Shred weapon damage percent (at level 80+) has been increased to 450%, up from 350%.


Talent Specializations
Balance

* The Shooting Stars buff duration has been increased to 12 seconds, up from 8 seconds.
* Wild Mushroom is now instant cast, down from 0.5 seconds. In addition, the radius of detonation has been increased to 6 yards, up from 3, and damage done increased by 15%.


Feral

* Berserk (instant Mangle proc) now has a new Spell Alert identifier. In addition, Berserk no longer breaks Fear or makes the druid immune to Fear.
* Pulverize weapon damage percent has been reduced to 80%, down from 100%.


Restoration

* Empowered Touch now also affects Regrowth.
* Nature's Bounty no longer affects Swiftmend, but now has a new effect. When the druid has Rejuvenation on 3 or more targets, the cast time of Nourish is reduced by 10/20/30%.


Glyphs

* Glyph of Regrowth now causes the heal-over-time effect to refresh itself on targets at or below 50% health, up from 25%.
* Glyph of Wrath now increases damage done by Wrath by 10% and no longer requires Insect Swarm on the target.


So for bears:
-Lacerate goes down. It's already pretty much only used to proc Mangle.
-Mangle goes down. Note that it's the % of weapon damage, the additional damage remains unchanged so it's probably more of a 20% drop than 25%, in line with the other bear changes.
-Maul goes down. They seem to want to keep it at its current damage compared to Mangle, so I'm not surprised.
-Berserk doesn't stop fears. Not used much in current content, but with Warriors and DKs being able to avoid fear and Pallies having their Skillbubble I imagined fear to become for tanks what magic dispelling is for healers. Guess I was wrong.
--Pulverize goes down. This comes to about a 20% reduction on all our single target abilities.

What doesn't change.
--Swipe damage stays the same. This was a tooltip fix from November.
--Thrash damage stays the same.
--Armor stays the same... I think. I need to dig up the various Cata changes but I *think* this went through in November, I'm just not as positive as I am about Swipe/Thrash.

So to summarize bears get about a 20% reduction in their single target damage. Given the damage I can pull with Vigilance stacks up I'm not surprised this happened. 30-35K mangle crits may be fun but it's probably overkill.

The full 4.06 patch notes as reported by Blizzard instead of datamined.
#48 Jan 07 2011 at 7:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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I just checked my druid on live with my Cat and Bear specs; Thick Hide's tooltip matches the armor on my character sheet. This means, if this change holds, we'll be getting 10-11k more armor.
 
10,701 (cat gear, no armor trinket or enchants) base 
x  2.2 (Bear Form) 
------ 
23,542 
x 1.33 (current Thick Hide) 
------ 
31,311 (current tool-tip armor) 

With this change:
 
10,701 
x  2.2 
------ 
23,542 
x 1.78 (new Thick Hide) 
------ 
41,905  


Basically, Bears will be taking about 12% less physical damage (my tooltip armor reduction is going from ~55% to ~62%, effective reduction is going from 51% to 58% vs heroic bosses or 49% to 56% vs raid bosses). I'll be happy going back to being the highest-armored tank, now if they can fix our threat tools so we're not just a soak tank for physical damage...
#49REDACTED, Posted: Jan 07 2011 at 8:47 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) See, wait before QQ..bears are fine.
#50 Jan 07 2011 at 8:59 PM Rating: Default
Quote:
I really don't think anyone at Ghostcrawler's office plays Druid.


The fact that there's no tanking gear with AGI on it was the subtle hint for that one - this feels like vanilla all over again - everything but my staff and trinkets is effectively rogue gear.
#51 Jan 07 2011 at 9:46 PM Rating: Good
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RAWDEAL wrote:
See, wait before QQ..bears are fine.


Bears are not fine just because someone at Blizz HQ notices their lack of armor and decides to buff to be on par with other tanking classes.

We still have crappy self-healing and next to no utility, not to mention AOE that makes Baby Jesus cry.
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