I was discussing earlier with the warrior class leader (fellow tank) of my guild about tanking trinkets and we began to talk about... this
Now I thought it would be a fairly decent trinket (there are better ones out there) but he dismissed it as terrible saying the +400 wouldn't matter to much because of raid buffs(which it stacks with) also increases block by 1.8% which is helpful. The only con I see with it is that it would take a while to grind to exalted in Tol Barad.
I'd imagine that +400 would make a hard hitting magic attack pretty weedy. Struggled to find any information to answer these questions. Does anyone have any opinions on this trinket?
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Yes it will very much affect certain targets. It's rather situational, though. For the most part, there are much better options for this sole reason:
The tank is getting hit with heals regularly - spells directed at him are generally in place of melee damage and they are generally quite often (much more frequent than the Trinket can keep up with.) The spells that are directed at everyone are often more powerful, and have a wind-up, but the tank will most likely be healed through them as if they never occurred.
I believe this trinket to be more of a PVP piece - as most of the stuff from TB is. If you have the extra commendations then its worth having in case of a strange situation, but it wont really outdo most of the other trinkets in general tanking.
The tank is getting hit with heals regularly - spells directed at him are generally in place of melee damage and they are generally quite often (much more frequent than the Trinket can keep up with.) The spells that are directed at everyone are often more powerful, and have a wind-up, but the tank will most likely be healed through them as if they never occurred.
I believe this trinket to be more of a PVP piece - as most of the stuff from TB is. If you have the extra commendations then its worth having in case of a strange situation, but it wont really outdo most of the other trinkets in general tanking.
tzsjynx wrote:
Yes it will very much affect certain targets. It's rather situational, though. For the most part, there are much better options for this sole reason:
The tank is getting hit with heals regularly - spells directed at him are generally in place of melee damage and they are generally quite often (much more frequent than the Trinket can keep up with.)
The tank is getting hit with heals regularly - spells directed at him are generally in place of melee damage and they are generally quite often (much more frequent than the Trinket can keep up with.)
The real questions I have are thus:
-If you do find a fight like that, will the attack hit often enough that you can't use other cooldowns instead?
-Is this the best trinket for the job?
-From a healer mana perspective, will the benefit of this outweigh the benefit of more common procs that absorb less damage more often?
Edit: I'm not saying it's necessarily any good. I truthfully have not looked at any math at all, nor have I bothered to read any current raid fights(I'll check em out mid January when I approach beginning raid time). I'm just saying it might not be worth dismissing out of hand, though I do definitely think that, at best, it'll be highly situational.
Edited, Dec 28th 2010 2:16pm by Poldaran
I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand either. 400 Resist is nearly 50% damage reduction from spells.
It's just that 10 seconds is likely only going to resist one worthwhile spell, maybe 2, then will be down for 50 seconds. The theory on tanking as-is, is that you want to smooth out damage over a long period of time. CDs and spike reduxes can be helpful (if not 100% necessary at certain parts of certain fights), but not nearly as important as lowering the collective damage taken by a smooth percent.
Reducing some damage all of the time is safer than reducing all damage some of the time. Barring some exceptions, of course, this is the prevailing theory right now for tanking when it comes to Physical attacks. Allowing the healers to sync up a heal rotation that matches your consistent mitigation, thereby reserving emergency heals and the mana they require for actual emergencies. With a defense towards spell attacks this just adds even more to think about.
I'm imagining we're pretty close in agreement Poldaran in saying that this could most certainly prove useful for some encounters. Whether or not that usefulness will match that of a different trinket will be seen as the encounters come.
It's just that 10 seconds is likely only going to resist one worthwhile spell, maybe 2, then will be down for 50 seconds. The theory on tanking as-is, is that you want to smooth out damage over a long period of time. CDs and spike reduxes can be helpful (if not 100% necessary at certain parts of certain fights), but not nearly as important as lowering the collective damage taken by a smooth percent.
Reducing some damage all of the time is safer than reducing all damage some of the time. Barring some exceptions, of course, this is the prevailing theory right now for tanking when it comes to Physical attacks. Allowing the healers to sync up a heal rotation that matches your consistent mitigation, thereby reserving emergency heals and the mana they require for actual emergencies. With a defense towards spell attacks this just adds even more to think about.
I'm imagining we're pretty close in agreement Poldaran in saying that this could most certainly prove useful for some encounters. Whether or not that usefulness will match that of a different trinket will be seen as the encounters come.
Quote:
I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand either. 400 Resist is nearly 50% damage reduction from spells.
I think you're using level 80 ratings. 400 Resistance gave an average of ~45% resist at level 80 against a level 83 mob. 400 Resist will not give you near 50% DR at level 85 against a level 88 mob, unless it scales completely differently from other stats.
That statement doesn't, of course, say that you shouldn't use this trinket. I haven't compared it to other options, and I'm not sure. But if nothing else it could be situationally useful.
Seeing as it's on a 1 minute cooldown, I'd prolly keep that in my bags as a tank. Assuming I'd be ***** enough to get it, anyway. There were plenty of bosses in WOTLK that had a fire breath-like ability with a roughly 1 minute cooldown, and having so much resilience resistance up for every hit of that can make it quite a neat trinket in specific fights.
Edited, Dec 29th 2010 12:29am by Mozared
Edited, Dec 29th 2010 12:29am by Mozared
The trinket is decent enough. I have yet to start raid tanking (3rd of January is when we start) but it's 1min CD, like stated, makes it a likely decent addition in some boss fights. It's a rep item anyhow, so ... Why not?
Resistance works for magic damage in a lot of situations.
If you get to certain plateaus it functions kind of like armor.
It is a situational thing though and tends to be mathy. So it is either a good trinket or worthless, depends on the fight and what you are trying dying to in said fight.
Resists helped many tanks win on Sarth 3D when it was a current fight. Resists also helped tanks on H Sindy breath attacks.
But is a very situational thing.
If you get to certain plateaus it functions kind of like armor.
It is a situational thing though and tends to be mathy. So it is either a good trinket or worthless, depends on the fight and what you are trying dying to in said fight.
Resists helped many tanks win on Sarth 3D when it was a current fight. Resists also helped tanks on H Sindy breath attacks.
But is a very situational thing.
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Do the TB daily where you have to kill the ghosts near the Ally area and then pull two or three of the "shrimp" style ones - they'll rip you to shreds with those spells of theirs - if the raids have anything remotely like that then I'm thinking that might be a good trinket.
tabstopper wrote:
Quote:
I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand either. 400 Resist is nearly 50% damage reduction from spells.
I think you're using level 80 ratings. 400 Resistance gave an average of ~45% resist at level 80 against a level 83 mob. 400 Resist will not give you near 50% DR at level 85 against a level 88 mob, unless it scales completely differently from other stats.
That statement doesn't, of course, say that you shouldn't use this trinket. I haven't compared it to other options, and I'm not sure. But if nothing else it could be situationally useful.
MotW at 85 is 97 elemental resistance, or 14.17%. Resistance tot on my shaman is 195 resistance, or 24% and change. There's a diminishing value from additional resistance, apparently, so I don't know what the actual % would be at 595 resistance (trinket + totem/pally aura/etc), but it should be close to if not over 60%.
tzsjynx wrote:
It's just that 10 seconds is likely only going to resist one worthwhile spell, maybe 2, then will be down for 50 seconds. The theory on tanking as-is, is that you want to smooth out damage over a long period of time. CDs and spike reduxes can be helpful (if not 100% necessary at certain parts of certain fights), but not nearly as important as lowering the collective damage taken by a smooth percent.
Reducing some damage all of the time is safer than reducing all damage some of the time. Barring some exceptions, of course, this is the prevailing theory right now for tanking when it comes to Physical attacks. Allowing the healers to sync up a heal rotation that matches your consistent mitigation, thereby reserving emergency heals and the mana they require for actual emergencies. With a defense towards spell attacks this just adds even more to think about.
Reducing some damage all of the time is safer than reducing all damage some of the time. Barring some exceptions, of course, this is the prevailing theory right now for tanking when it comes to Physical attacks. Allowing the healers to sync up a heal rotation that matches your consistent mitigation, thereby reserving emergency heals and the mana they require for actual emergencies. With a defense towards spell attacks this just adds even more to think about.
CDs (like Shield Wall or Survival Instincts) can reduce damage spikes, making for more consistent and regular damage amounts over time. Mitigation effects (like armor) will reduce the total incoming damage at all points without actually measurably affecting the spikes. You're contradicting yourself; either you think a smoother damage curve is better (which CDs support), or lowering the curve slightly at all points is better.
Obviously, this trinket isn't going to be helpful if the boss does small amounts of magic damage consistently over the whole fight. Reducing that kind of damage can cause the kinds of issues you alluded to, which is why you don't use defensive CDs on CD.
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