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#27 Dec 13 2010 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
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(imo) too much trash between the bosses for the most part.


I'm looking at you Grim Batol! Geebus even with weakening and killing some of them off with the red drake fly by that place is densely trashulatedâ„¢.
#28 Dec 13 2010 at 8:27 PM Rating: Good
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Shojindo, Hero of Orgrimmar wrote:
I still have a couple of weak pieces. ( Where the fook my relics at?!!)
\

Slabhide in Stonecore has a sexy tank relic. I use it and recommend it to 3 out of 4 tanks.
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#29 Dec 13 2010 at 8:30 PM Rating: Good
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Shojindo, Hero of Orgrimmar wrote:
Quote:
(imo) too much trash between the bosses for the most part.


I'm looking at you Grim Batol! Geebus even with weakening and killing some of them off with the red drake fly by that place is densely trashulatedâ„¢.


The GB trash is easy once you know which pulls are tricky and makes sure to hit them extra hard with the dragons. The dragon part really makes or breaks that place's trash. The mixed pull after the guy that is on dragon for the middle part comes to mind as one that really need to be softened up or will make you want to /wrists.
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#30 Dec 14 2010 at 12:22 AM Rating: Good
Non of the packs were that bad. Just a lot of them. Also that is a nice tank relic. Will have to pick it up. I haven't looked very hard to be honest for relics yet. I'm sure a good Ret one will drop at some point.

In other news I did heroic Tides tonight. Ohh yeah big step up. I liked it though. :)
#31 Dec 14 2010 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
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They need to have a "Rated" LFD. I'm not sure how it would work, but last night I hoped into a guild run (I was the odd-man-out) and they were clearly idiots.

The Rogue was drunk and kept casting holiday charms and stupid crap. The healer went OOM or very close to OOM on nearly every pull. This isn't a problem - I know he was learning... But he didn't drink after the fight. Then the jackass DPS start with the "gogogogo". I told them he needed mana. The Druid tells me it's fine, I'll just envenerate him....

I don't know how they could do it - but the LFD system is in jeopardy as it currently sits.
#32 Dec 14 2010 at 9:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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What happens is that rather then forming an entire group from scratch LFD will be filling in spots into existing groups more. So rather then just queuing up people will make the effort to ask a few of their friends first.
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#33 Dec 14 2010 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
Borsuk wrote:
They need to have a "Rated" LFD. I'm not sure how it would work, but last night I hoped into a guild run (I was the odd-man-out) and they were clearly idiots.

The Rogue was drunk and kept casting holiday charms and stupid crap. The healer went OOM or very close to OOM on nearly every pull. This isn't a problem - I know he was learning... But he didn't drink after the fight. Then the jackass DPS start with the "gogogogo". I told them he needed mana. The Druid tells me it's fine, I'll just envenerate him....

I don't know how they could do it - but the LFD system is in jeopardy as it currently sits.


I'm pretty sure when the vast majority of people say that they are drunk/high/etc it is just them saying 'I'm a jackass and I'm going to *&$# around the entire time'
#34 Dec 14 2010 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
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Nice to hear this. With my hunter, running the WOLK instances I tried to do what CC I could, but I don't think anybody really cared (and with the strength of gear it wasn't that necessary). I played an enchanter in EQ so it was foreign to me that it would not be needed (??)
#35 Dec 14 2010 at 10:13 AM Rating: Decent
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I really like the idea of the CC aspect of heroics. What I don't like is how long it takes. If you're going to have to spend time planning pulls and CCing and marking, then there should be less pulls overall. One hour per heroic seems a little out of hand for my linking. I get fatigued of having to try really hard after about 30 minutes of constant vigilance. This is why I don't generally raid.
#36 Dec 14 2010 at 11:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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Horsemouth wrote:
Shojindo, Hero of Orgrimmar wrote:
I still have a couple of weak pieces. ( Where the fook my relics at?!!)
\

Slabhide in Stonecore has a sexy tank relic. I use it and recommend it to 3 out of 4 tanks.

There's a quest in Twilight Highlands that drops this, which works out to be better for druids. Where 51 Dodge rating is worth .29% dodge, 73 Agi (after MotW) is worth .31% dodge, .23% crit, and the Flashgrowth Mote has 49 hit rating.

Edit: Even if you consider the heroic version, you can reforge the Flashgrowth Mote for 19 Dodge rating and you're comparing .38% dodge to .41% dodge + crit + 30 hit rating.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 12:06pm by AstarintheDruid
#37 Dec 14 2010 at 11:09 AM Rating: Good
AstarintheDruid wrote:
Horsemouth wrote:
Shojindo, Hero of Orgrimmar wrote:
I still have a couple of weak pieces. ( Where the fook my relics at?!!)
\

Slabhide in Stonecore has a sexy tank relic. I use it and recommend it to 3 out of 4 tanks.

There's a quest in Twilight Highlands that drops this, which works out to be better for druids. Where 51 Dodge rating is worth .29% dodge, 73 Agi (after MotW) is worth .31% dodge, .23% crit, and the Flashgrowth Mote has 49 hit rating.


I replaced that mote with the heroic dragon partially because there's more stamina and dodge and partially because that let me gem one for bear and one for cat.

I think Blizzard's going to be doing some tweaking as a result of the lack of leather tanking gear. Tanks may be supposed to gear for non-dps stats but we can't really avoid it, and my mangles crit for 20K+. When the tank bonus AP stacked high enough I even saw a 35K crit once.
#38 Dec 14 2010 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
I am seriously digging the heroics too. Granted I've only finished Tol'vir, Throne of the Tides, and Deadmines up to Ripsnarl, but I really look forward to seeing them rest of them in time.

I love the fact that I've found a use for a glyphed [Hungering Cold] outside of PvP as well. It doesn't last but 10 seconds, but sometimes that's all that is needed between a wipe and saving the group. Not to mention having a reliable (albeit weak) CC makes me a little more valuable in groups I hope.

From a dungeon perspective, I haven't had this much fun in a long time.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 12:18pm by Meatballsub
#39 Dec 14 2010 at 12:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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So long as healers going OOM is a bigger threat than being inst-gibbed from back-to-back hits for more than my total health, I think avoidance wins out over stacking stam. That, and more Agi = More crit and AP = bigger and more frequent Savage Defense procs. That will most likely change in raids when Vengeance will actually reach full value more quickly and having a higher health pool becomes more important.
#40 Dec 14 2010 at 5:15 PM Rating: Good
many people wrote:
Stuff about relics


I picked up the Bloodthirsty Gladiator's Relic of Conquest that just came out today. Sure it has a bit of Res but it also had a crap ton more STR and Stam and some nice crit I am sorely needing atm.

*Sorry I could not find it on wowhead for the mouseover.





#41 Dec 14 2010 at 7:21 PM Rating: Good
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Shojindo, Hero of Orgrimmar wrote:
many people wrote:
Stuff about relics


I picked up the Bloodthirsty Gladiator's Relic of Conquest that just came out today. Sure it has a bit of Res but it also had a crap ton more STR and Stam and some nice crit I am sorely needing atm.

*Sorry I could not find it on wowhead for the mouseover.


If you type in that item name at Wowhead.com, it gives you one item.
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#42 Dec 14 2010 at 7:56 PM Rating: Excellent
Well I'll be. Would ya look at that? Strange days, anomalies, or updates. Or maybe I am a secret spy promoting my non affiliated website link! I would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for Debbie Downer. Smiley: laugh
#43 Dec 16 2010 at 12:51 PM Rating: Default
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Finally did a heroic in a random yesterday and we all seen it coming, yea im a QQer and hate it. The one I got was GB . I don't see where they need to be this difficult. Yes towards the end WOTLK heroics were stupidly easy, but that don't mean we should have to spend hours to do something we are meant to do every day. Maybe I was just in a bad group (the fact that I was tank doing 2nd dps could be a problem). Group consisted of me with 124khp buffed (yea I know nothign amazing, but its a start), another feral druid doing **** poor dps (prob a tank trying to gear up without tanking), rogue, holy paladin, and warrior. Spent 25 min getting to first boss with 1 wipe over rogue getting too close and pulling instead of sapping.

I can understand not wanting players to be able to face roll every single encounter in a heroic, but I don't see what is "Fun" having to CC, mark, etc EVERY SINGLE FIGHT. This is just boring and downright annoying to spend this much time killing trash. Sad when trash in a random heroic is more difficult than going through ICC.

So finally get to the boss and after 5 wipes I was done. Every time he did blitz he 1 shotted whomever he hit unless it was me (which he only did it to me once). I guess this is a gearcheck sign but still we obviously met the minimum requirement to do the dungeon. I think everyone but the rogue had over 100khp. DPS wasn't too impressive though. Like I said I was doing 5500 on boss and ranking 2nd, the feral cat was doing 3000 and usualyl first to die. Our highest was the hunter doing 9k.

Anyways I just think heroics should be more casual. Heroics are something you generally do with 4 people that you may or may not ever see again (very likely not do with the new queue system). Yea you could get into a guild and run with guildies but for people who work that isn't always an option. You can't really progress with a group of people by running randoms with the PUG finder. A raid being this difficult is another thing. You get with the same group of people and you do it once a week, not once a day.

I think that VP normal has the perfect balance of difficulty to make it fun but not stupidly easy. You have to CC some of the encounters, but others you do not. It makes you think, but doesn't take away all of the fun and turn it into a tedious job.

I do hope every heroic isn't designed like H GB is though. If they want to make heroics this difficult they could at least at minimum have lvl 85 normal dungeon bosses drop a handful of JP to help gear players up. As of now without heroics we can get 70 jp a day and thats it. Heck even the ICC normal dungeon bosses dropped badges/points. This way people could run normals more than once a day and have a better chance at gearing up. Sure the 333 gear is good out of normal dungeons but it can be quite a hassle actually getting the 1 upgrade you need to drop, and even more actually winning it.
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#44 Dec 16 2010 at 1:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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fronglo wrote:
So finally get to the boss and after 5 wipes I was done. Every time he did blitz he 1 shotted whomever he hit unless it was me (which he only did it to me once). I guess this is a gearcheck sign but still we obviously met the minimum requirement to do the dungeon.
This isn't a gear check, it's a can you run away check. Most of the bosses in heroic seem to have mechanics that you can't just ignore. If people would have run away when he targeted them, then he won't hit them, and they won't take any damage.
Quote:

I think that VP normal has the perfect balance of difficulty to make it fun but not stupidly easy. You have to CC some of the encounters, but others you do not. It makes you think, but doesn't take away all of the fun and turn it into a tedious job.
Great! Run normals then! They are perfectly tuned for you to have fun.

Quote:
I do hope every heroic isn't designed like H GB is though. If they want to make heroics this difficult they could at least at minimum have lvl 85 normal dungeon bosses drop a handful of JP to help gear players up. As of now without heroics we can get 70 jp a day and thats it. Heck even the ICC normal dungeon bosses dropped badges/points. This way people could run normals more than once a day and have a better chance at gearing up. Sure the 333 gear is good out of normal dungeons but it can be quite a hassle actually getting the 1 upgrade you need to drop, and even more actually winning it.
You get 333 gear out of normal dungeons, but more importantly you get rep which allows you to get a bunch of 246 gear.

As your example showed, a lot of the dungeons have mechanics that can't be ignored. they are also very hard when you first get the gear score to do them, and because the check includes gear in your bags people are keeping stuff in their bags that they can't actually use. If you get a group doing 3K dps, you're probably not going to get very far. This will get better as you gear up, but for heroics, why not build a group on your own server. Spend the time to get to know a few people who are on at the same time as you and build a regular group of people. We did it in BC after all/
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#45 Dec 16 2010 at 1:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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fronglo wrote:

So finally get to the boss and after 5 wipes I was done. Every time he did blitz he 1 shotted whomever he hit unless it was me (which he only did it to me once). I guess this is a gearcheck sign but still we obviously met the minimum requirement to do the dungeon. I think everyone but the rogue had over 100khp. DPS wasn't too impressive though. Like I said I was doing 5500 on boss and ranking 2nd, the feral cat was doing 3000 and usualyl first to die. Our highest was the hunter doing 9k.


I haven't done GB yet (only 84), but from what I've read, Blitz is avoidable and should be avoided every time. I've heard he only targets ranged, so the only reason it may have hit you is if your ranged were all dead or you were in the line of Blitz.
#46 Dec 16 2010 at 3:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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fronglo wrote:
Finally did a heroic in a random yesterday and we all seen it coming, yea im a QQer and hate it. The one I got was GB . I don't see where they need to be this difficult. Yes towards the end WOTLK heroics were stupidly easy, but that don't mean we should have to spend hours to do something we are meant to do every day.


I disagree. I think there should be content that is a challenge for 5-player groups. Those of you who want easy 5-player content, please enjoy the normal dungeons.

If your complaint is that you can’t steamroll heroics with a random group of strangers, some of whom don’t know how to focus fire, conserve mana or CC, less than a month after the expansion has been released, then I can’t sympathize with you.
#47 Dec 16 2010 at 6:27 PM Rating: Decent
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note to self: see how much fun they're having? shut your ******* browser and level up jackass!
#48 Dec 16 2010 at 7:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Like mentioned, Blitz is avoidable. He picks a player, and after about 3 seconds charges the position of the player, hitting everyone in the way and everyone near the impact area. It's easy to avoid if you're using DBM, which you should be if you're doing an heroic.
#49 Dec 17 2010 at 2:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hey Fronglo!
Shoo! Begone.

Heroics right now are more fun than they've been since halfway through BC, lets keep it that way.
If you can't stand a challenge or if CC is too complicated for you please just stay away from heroics but don't go whining.
I don't want Blizz to nerf heroics because people like you can't deal with having to improve your skills.
#50 Dec 17 2010 at 3:10 AM Rating: Good
Blizzard will adjust things in Dungeon's, but only to fine tune things. As gear get's upgraded, people will have less issues with heroics. People are for the most part, starting to learn the need of CC and of the like, it's just been an ajustment going from LK crap to a playstyle from before LK.

The O-boards are a buzz with more "Blizz please don't make HC's easier" than the ones complaining of them being too hard. Blizzard will keep them like they are. All of this is their fault to begin with anyways. They made group dungeon mechanics change in Wraith, and for 2 years we played that way. To revert back was a welcome change, but difficult to adjust to, especially to the players that only joined during Wraith.

I've actually gone back to the old main I started with, the mage. Wraith all but killed my desire to play it. Now its like it was. Crowd Controling, and group control monitoring, instead of monitoring a DPS meter.

Edited, Dec 17th 2010 4:16am by Magilicotti
#51 Dec 17 2010 at 3:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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One thing Blizzard did learn from WotLK, I hope, is that the initial batch of heroics will, eventually, be out-geared. Hopefully with each new content patch, they will release a couple new 5-mans like FoS/PoS/HoR to keep things interesting.
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