are heroic.
They are brutal and unforgiving. They involve people following mechanics and not ******** them up. Marking adds for CC, getting a random group with no CC and you might as well quit. Tanks need to pick things up fast and people need to be where this can happen easily. Everyone needs to watch for damage they can avoid and do so or likely cause bad things to happen. Everyone needs to be performing at a higher level than most are used to in a five man.
I haven't had this much fun in a long time.
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Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
No CC? That would be a group composed of what, only warriors DKs and Shaman?
I've been CCing a LOT on my Shaman. Hex and Bind elemental for the win, sir.
Vladrael wrote:
I've been CCing a LOT on my Shaman. Hex and Bind elemental for the win, sir.
Same here...even, or especially, as a healer...makes my job easier when there's less hitting the tank. And lots of dps still don't know how to CC.
Horsemouth wrote:
They are brutal and unforgiving back to normal. They involve people following mechanics and not ******** them up. Marking adds for CC, getting a random group with no CC and you might as well quit. Tanks need to pick things up fast and people need to be where this can happen easily. Everyone needs to watch for damage they can avoid and do so or likely cause bad things to happen. Everyone needs to be performing at a higher level than most are used to in a five man.
I haven't had this much fun in a long time.
I haven't had this much fun in a long time.
Hell, normals are too taxing for a lot of people (especially tanks so far from my experience) and even the idea of using CC seems to elude the average player's mind.
I've waited a long time to be able to CC again and I'm going to enjoy it.
Going to start dipping my toe into the dungeon scene sometime either today or tomorrow and if yesterday's vortex pinnacle was any indication how it will be later I am not looking forward to it. Mind you I am a 85 tank and it was normal but I swear, I try to help the healer who is trying to get used to healing again (hasn't healed since pre-tree overhauls) by having the shaman, mage, and paladin CC mobs. Simple enough considering that on even the weak pulls we still had two available CC, three if you count my root. Shaman was learning how to CC again but did pretty good overall. Mage would wait until the mob got close or even sadder, blow a bunch of AoE all over said poly and made the CC pointless. Paladin didn't even have Repentence... "Fair enough" I thought, " I will just tank big groups and mainly worry about the shaman's CC since he seems to be the only one that is thinking at the moment." No suprise here but each dps was on a different target. Which caused me to run around like if my bear just got done eating a fish full of crack.
Guild runs are out of the question due to most of the guild members being below 83 (besides me there is only one other 85 and he hit that mark last night). Oh well, I will get into heroics eventually and probably be put off of tanking for like how I was put off of healing during BC. (I was not the best player out there and people's recklessness turn into dirt naps which turned into them trying to do the same thing to my self esteem)
Guild runs are out of the question due to most of the guild members being below 83 (besides me there is only one other 85 and he hit that mark last night). Oh well, I will get into heroics eventually and probably be put off of tanking for like how I was put off of healing during BC. (I was not the best player out there and people's recklessness turn into dirt naps which turned into them trying to do the same thing to my self esteem)
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Horsemouth wrote:
They are brutal and unforgiving back to normal. They involve people following mechanics and not ******** them up. Marking adds for CC, getting a random group with no CC and you might as well quit. Tanks need to pick things up fast and people need to be where this can happen easily. Everyone needs to watch for damage they can avoid and do so or likely cause bad things to happen. Everyone needs to be performing at a higher level than most are used to in a five man.
I haven't had this much fun in a long time.
I haven't had this much fun in a long time.
Hell, normals are too taxing for a lot of people (especially tanks so far from my experience) and even the idea of using CC seems to elude the average player's mind.
I've waited a long time to be able to CC again and I'm going to enjoy it.
Most hunters have forgotten how to trap and are worthless when it comes to CC. Makes me sad.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Criminy wrote:
Going to start dipping my toe into the dungeon scene sometime either today or tomorrow and if yesterday's vortex pinnacle was any indication how it will be later I am not looking forward to it. Mind you I am a 85 tank and it was normal but I swear, I try to help the healer who is trying to get used to healing again (hasn't healed since pre-tree overhauls) by having the shaman, mage, and paladin CC mobs. Simple enough considering that on even the weak pulls we still had two available CC, three if you count my root. Shaman was learning how to CC again but did pretty good overall. Mage would wait until the mob got close or even sadder, blow a bunch of AoE all over said poly and made the CC pointless. Paladin didn't even have Repentence... "Fair enough" I thought, " I will just tank big groups and mainly worry about the shaman's CC since he seems to be the only one that is thinking at the moment." No suprise here but each dps was on a different target. Which caused me to run around like if my bear just got done eating a fish full of crack.
Guild runs are out of the question due to most of the guild members being below 83 (besides me there is only one other 85 and he hit that mark last night). Oh well, I will get into heroics eventually and probably be put off of tanking for like how I was put off of healing during BC. (I was not the best player out there and people's recklessness turn into dirt naps which turned into them trying to do the same thing to my self esteem)
Guild runs are out of the question due to most of the guild members being below 83 (besides me there is only one other 85 and he hit that mark last night). Oh well, I will get into heroics eventually and probably be put off of tanking for like how I was put off of healing during BC. (I was not the best player out there and people's recklessness turn into dirt naps which turned into them trying to do the same thing to my self esteem)
When I tank if I notice someone consistently doing bad things; aggroing mobs that aren't the kill target, breaking CC or pulling, I call them out and tell them to stop and if they do it again will let the tank, which causes death usually. If they continue to misbehave it becomes a him or me situation. It takes more time to find a new tank than a new DPS.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Horsemouth wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Horsemouth wrote:
They are brutal and unforgiving back to normal. They involve people following mechanics and not ******** them up. Marking adds for CC, getting a random group with no CC and you might as well quit. Tanks need to pick things up fast and people need to be where this can happen easily. Everyone needs to watch for damage they can avoid and do so or likely cause bad things to happen. Everyone needs to be performing at a higher level than most are used to in a five man.
I haven't had this much fun in a long time.
I haven't had this much fun in a long time.
Hell, normals are too taxing for a lot of people (especially tanks so far from my experience) and even the idea of using CC seems to elude the average player's mind.
I've waited a long time to be able to CC again and I'm going to enjoy it.
Most hunters have forgotten how to trap and are worthless when it comes to CC. Makes me sad.
One problem I've found is that there's a delay between the arrow firing, the trap forming and the trap going off. With a hasty tank this can make aiming the trap difficult if you take a moment between pulls to loot or breathe. When I ran a heroic VP with my bear a mage a hunter and a moonkin I got into the habit of emphasizing "following your arrow in" since I knew the timing from experience and could still initiate the pull. The other CCs followed suit and it was a good way of coordinating things.
Anyone know if Mind Control pulling works on those suckers? It would be a good way to handle the groups with that one *nasty* guy, sac him to the rest of em and put the tank between the mobs and the priest to pick up.
I haven't put a toe in heroics yet, but I'm really looking forward to it! Just hit 85 last night and after a couple regular dungeon runs I'm at avg ilvl 330. That Alchemist trinket sure does help boost your ilvl. >.> I've been doing mostly guild runs, with everyone on vent and coordinating, it's been a lot of fun. Earlier though, we had one pug who was a rogue and he did not listen to directions very well. I told him time and again to not AoE when there were marked targets, but he kept doing it anyways. Ended up waking up almost any of the dragons (we were in GB) I tried to hibernate and a good amount of the sheeps got broken too. Thankfully the rest of us were awesome, so the group didn't go too badly. Didn't have more than one wipe on each boss. Some of them we didn't wipe at all.
I've done GB three times now and I still have yet to finish the blasted quest for killing stuff on the dragon. I still have four or five twilight guys left to kill and it's really getting on my nerves.
I've done GB three times now and I still have yet to finish the blasted quest for killing stuff on the dragon. I still have four or five twilight guys left to kill and it's really getting on my nerves.
It's not that bad tbh. As long as you've got decent players, that is. I've cleared Stonecore 3/4, Halls of Origination and Lost City of Tol'Vir. The Stonecore was with a group of random players and a total of ~14 wipes. Halls of Origination involved no wipes and Lost City involved about 4, spread out over the last two bosses.
The real 'difficulty' really seems to be for DPS to avoid damage. If your DPS don't suck and don't stand in the fire, you're generally fine - I can outheal some pretty heavy tank damage, and I only really require CC on groups with 4 or 5 mobs (where the tank damage simply becomes too high to outheal through viable means).
I'll agree that these heroics are hardly as simple as the WOTLK ones though, even before we overgeared them.
The real 'difficulty' really seems to be for DPS to avoid damage. If your DPS don't suck and don't stand in the fire, you're generally fine - I can outheal some pretty heavy tank damage, and I only really require CC on groups with 4 or 5 mobs (where the tank damage simply becomes too high to outheal through viable means).
I'll agree that these heroics are hardly as simple as the WOTLK ones though, even before we overgeared them.
14 wipes isn't bad?
Most groups I've been in disband after the first wipe...
Most groups I've been in disband after the first wipe...
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Yea dieing over and over again because your random group wasn't formed just right isn't much fun. I am not even into heroics yet and not real thrilled with it. Even worse for DPS who have horrible long queues.
Hi
It is pretty fun again not being able to fly through and AoE down every single pack and zerg down a boss. In my guild runs we've definitely wiped a decent amount on various fights and even trash if we weren't careful enough. It really makes your gear feel earned, which I laugh when I see the QQ of people complaining that they don't get handed gear like they did at the end of BC and WotLK, especially the wrathbabies that don't know any better.
I hit 85 yesterday. I am happy my two best WoW friends are tanks.
From what I've seen, the heroics are going to be insane, judging from the normal dungeons.
From what I've seen, the heroics are going to be insane, judging from the normal dungeons.
"Do you know what "nemesis" means? A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent. Personified in this case by an 'orrible c*** : me."
I've cleared most of GB, came into a run after the weapons boss. I was a PuG in a guild run, went pretty smooth. Had to do some CC while tanking with Hibernate, was a trip as I haven't done that in years. The last boss took a few tries but the run wasn't that bad overall. Trash was mostly half dead on the run as the group had done well with the dragons.
Stonecore is nasty. The first boss was ok but the second took a bit for the DPS to get it together with beam control, once they did it was caek. The third boss killed the group. The adds were dying to randomly and the damage got to crazy. People left after that, kind of lame as it was getting smoother each time.
Did HoO as well and the DPS couldn't handle the snakes so it went no where fast. Best try was with me, the tank, jumping with most of the DPS so I could control the snakes with a warrior up top to interrupt.
Need to get more guildies geared and in heroics to help make things go smoother. Having a random group makes things harder especially when you aren't familiar with how everyone operates.
Stonecore is nasty. The first boss was ok but the second took a bit for the DPS to get it together with beam control, once they did it was caek. The third boss killed the group. The adds were dying to randomly and the damage got to crazy. People left after that, kind of lame as it was getting smoother each time.
Did HoO as well and the DPS couldn't handle the snakes so it went no where fast. Best try was with me, the tank, jumping with most of the DPS so I could control the snakes with a warrior up top to interrupt.
Need to get more guildies geared and in heroics to help make things go smoother. Having a random group makes things harder especially when you aren't familiar with how everyone operates.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Scholar
31 posts
I am absolutely loving the new instances, especially on heroic! They're somewhat challenging, and that makes it a lot more fun for me than lolfaceroll ever was. I will admit that there's some bosses that make me want to tear my hair out when the random composition is less than ideal, but for the most part, even going in with one friend (a DPS) and a pug tank and two DPS has almost always been doable. Maybe a wipe or two once in a while when people hadn't seen a fight, but that's forgivable as long as one mistake doesn't turn into the same mistake repeated ad nauseum. The revised healing paradigm isn't bad once you get used to it a bit, though I do look back somewhat wistfully to the days of infinite mana when I'm screaming for just a little more heal juice and half the group is low on health.
Altogether though, this expansion is fun thus far. Definitely a different mindset for a lot of things, but fun.
Altogether though, this expansion is fun thus far. Definitely a different mindset for a lot of things, but fun.
Quote:
14 wipes isn't bad?
Most groups I've been in disband after the first wipe...
Most groups I've been in disband after the first wipe...
That's spread out over 3 bosses - which is 4 or 5 wipes per boss. For an instance nobody's done on heroic before, that's not bad. Also, that's with a random group - with decent players (guildies), like I said, it's even less worse.
Scholar
18 posts
I love the new heroics!
Being a surv hunter I missed the old bc chain trapping.
and its alway fun seeing people thank you are doing your job instead of just mauling stuff down.
we went with a semi guildgroup to stonecore and damn!
first boss(the worm)was crazy XD but we managed to get it down second boss(drake) was pretty easy.
at the third boss we decided to call it quits after a couple of wipes.
then we went shadowfang keep that was pretty doable only the third boss (salvan?)gave us some problems with the adds. but healer kept running out of mana to fast to be able to down it.
cant wait to see the other heroics :)
Being a surv hunter I missed the old bc chain trapping.
and its alway fun seeing people thank you are doing your job instead of just mauling stuff down.
we went with a semi guildgroup to stonecore and damn!
first boss(the worm)was crazy XD but we managed to get it down second boss(drake) was pretty easy.
at the third boss we decided to call it quits after a couple of wipes.
then we went shadowfang keep that was pretty doable only the third boss (salvan?)gave us some problems with the adds. but healer kept running out of mana to fast to be able to down it.
cant wait to see the other heroics :)
BillyRayValentine wrote:
From what I've seen, the heroics are going to be insane fun, judging from the normal dungeons.
It's finally a bit of challenge again in heroics. Once we all get epics they'll be easy again and soon enough we're going to AoE and zerg them all so enjoy this while it lasts.
I haven't had this much fun in wow for a quite awhile, I really love them. Sure they are challenging, but that's just the way I like them.
I did heroic Stonecore yesterday, and apparently it's one of the most complained about instances. Not the *hardest* (allegedly heroic BRC, haven't tried it) but most complaints, and I can see why. Every boss is a skillcheck.
If you get in the worm's jump or let the shardlings reach you and blow up, you die. If you get hit by the drake's rocks, stand in fire, or don't LoS his Shard Storm with those rocks you die. The rock guy paralyzes before he shatters (breaks on damage, kills you if not broken) so the ranged need to reflect a dot off him and the melee need to hit him for a dot and then run away from the shatter, and in addition the tank needs to dodge the ground smash cone attack or --you guessed it-- they die. The last boss *can* be done with standard tactics but apparently the gravity wells can also be used to kill adds and block rocks.
It is SO much fun!
If you get in the worm's jump or let the shardlings reach you and blow up, you die. If you get hit by the drake's rocks, stand in fire, or don't LoS his Shard Storm with those rocks you die. The rock guy paralyzes before he shatters (breaks on damage, kills you if not broken) so the ranged need to reflect a dot off him and the melee need to hit him for a dot and then run away from the shatter, and in addition the tank needs to dodge the ground smash cone attack or --you guessed it-- they die. The last boss *can* be done with standard tactics but apparently the gravity wells can also be used to kill adds and block rocks.
It is SO much fun!
For priests, Glyph of Psychic Scream is absolute win for cc. It saved my shapely blood elf butt in a dungeon just yesterday.
I haven't tried any heroics, because I'm not 85 yet. There, I said it. You will not shame me, I will not be shamed. But I've liked the regular dungeons I've done so far. Marking mobs! Haven't seen that pretty little skull in a long time.
I haven't tried any heroics, because I'm not 85 yet. There, I said it. You will not shame me, I will not be shamed. But I've liked the regular dungeons I've done so far. Marking mobs! Haven't seen that pretty little skull in a long time.
I've ran all the normals now with a static group of 5 patient people. We have been learning the most dangerous mobs and practicing clean CC pulls in every instance even in some of them after we leveled and could faceroll them again to a certain extent. I have been using Repentance very frequently to take a humanoid out of the fight.
Looking forward to jumping into heroics this week with the same group and applying what we have learned from the normal instances. I qualify already for heroics as of sunday. That happened a bit faster than I would have expected but I must admit I was on a WoW bender this weekend and played like crazy. (Loving every minute of it)
I still have a couple of weak pieces. ( Where the fook my relics at?!!) So I might run the 85 normals a couple of more times just to really tighten things up. No hurry for me. Also gratefully no pugs thanks to my excellent 5 man crew that I like to roll with. :)
Edited, Dec 13th 2010 11:10am by Shojindo
Looking forward to jumping into heroics this week with the same group and applying what we have learned from the normal instances. I qualify already for heroics as of sunday. That happened a bit faster than I would have expected but I must admit I was on a WoW bender this weekend and played like crazy. (Loving every minute of it)
I still have a couple of weak pieces. ( Where the fook my relics at?!!) So I might run the 85 normals a couple of more times just to really tighten things up. No hurry for me. Also gratefully no pugs thanks to my excellent 5 man crew that I like to roll with. :)
Edited, Dec 13th 2010 11:10am by Shojindo
Although fun, I'm not thrilled bout doing random heroics with. PuGs. Ill stick to grouping with guild and friends, and I'm not going unless at least 3 of us make up the group.
The only issue I can see with heroics is getting stuck with a a group of people (through Random) that don't understand the mechanics and expect to waltz through the place like they could in Wrath.
That and the instances take quite a while (hour+ on some of them, especially with a few wipes [granted either on trash or bosses in most of the instances that I have done on heroic -- even with my above-average-skilled guildies]. It really hurts the 'have a half-an-hour, do an instance' mentality that we built up in wrath - in some cases the trash pulls are more difficult than the bosses and there is (imo) too much trash between the bosses for the most part.
That and the instances take quite a while (hour+ on some of them, especially with a few wipes [granted either on trash or bosses in most of the instances that I have done on heroic -- even with my above-average-skilled guildies]. It really hurts the 'have a half-an-hour, do an instance' mentality that we built up in wrath - in some cases the trash pulls are more difficult than the bosses and there is (imo) too much trash between the bosses for the most part.
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