I just came upon this theory, so I thought I would run it past all of you to see what you think.
For the entire time I have been playing this game, 15+ months now, everyone has always screamed that the last class to get a buff needs to be nerfed for one reason or another. This happened with every one of the respecs that I can think of. Except for one thing, when they respecced Shamans and Mages together, only one of them really got the full brunt of the *********
Meanwhile, with the most recent patch, Warlocks and Hunters seem to have gotten the largest portion of the buff stick. Everyone that is not playing a warlock is screaming for a nerf as soon as possible while the hunters have been able to sit back and enjoy their new buffs without anyone really saying anything about it. Is this Blizzards new strategy, the "Distraction Buff"? I honestly see both classes have been buffed pretty equally (Silencing Shot is sick), but since people are dying to warlocks after the lock is already dead, they have taken the brunt of the beating.
So, is this the rambling of a lock player who is just sick of everyone ragging on his class? Or have I stumbled across something with my "Distraction Buff" theory?
~Rock
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People complain about locks more because they've been complaining about em since before the buff.
I've heard many a complaint about hunters, it's just that the lock people are more vocal.
I've heard many a complaint about hunters, it's just that the lock people are more vocal.
Makes sense... its all about who makes the most impact on you when you die, also depends on what class you are, ones you've played and the skill of the enemy.
For example... ive only played a warrior and i haven't had a problem in killing hunters so they dont make an impact on my pvp life, with locks its a different thing i have to go around tactfully and time skills... Because of the fact i have only played a warrior i do not know if the hunters i generally run into are noobs, or that is the general way it is. Same with locks, dont know if they are skilled or not, or if i suck at my class. Locks generally make more of an impact on me.
For example... ive only played a warrior and i haven't had a problem in killing hunters so they dont make an impact on my pvp life, with locks its a different thing i have to go around tactfully and time skills... Because of the fact i have only played a warrior i do not know if the hunters i generally run into are noobs, or that is the general way it is. Same with locks, dont know if they are skilled or not, or if i suck at my class. Locks generally make more of an impact on me.
It's interesting, I've actually found Warlocks easier since the patch - I now have a 50/50 chance of killing them. Admittedly this is for two reasons...
1) Treants are shockingly hilarious...if I can use them there seems to be an 80% chance of me winning - if not, it's reversed.
2) Warlocks simply don't expect a Druid to be problem, so often don't make an all out effort to kill me. Because balance (and feral) Druids have been buffed substantially this gives me a really good chance to take them by surprise.
Hunters, on the other hand, are a complete nightmare. I could beat them before (with difficulty), but now...bleah...Silencing Shot really is just a PiTA.
So...
I'll go along with that. People's expectations are "ZOMG NERF WARLOCK RUUUUUUUN", so they're more likely to scream and rant about them. Hunters weren't in the spotlight so much before the patch, so their new "imba-ness" isn't as noticed and therefore less complained about.
1) Treants are shockingly hilarious...if I can use them there seems to be an 80% chance of me winning - if not, it's reversed.
2) Warlocks simply don't expect a Druid to be problem, so often don't make an all out effort to kill me. Because balance (and feral) Druids have been buffed substantially this gives me a really good chance to take them by surprise.
Hunters, on the other hand, are a complete nightmare. I could beat them before (with difficulty), but now...bleah...Silencing Shot really is just a PiTA.
So...
Quote:
Makes sense... its all about who makes the most impact on you when you die, also depends on what class you are, ones you've played and the skill of the enemy.
I'll go along with that. People's expectations are "ZOMG NERF WARLOCK RUUUUUUUN", so they're more likely to scream and rant about them. Hunters weren't in the spotlight so much before the patch, so their new "imba-ness" isn't as noticed and therefore less complained about.
I don't think it's <last buffed class>. I think it's more of a "NERF <class that squishes me like a grape>". The fact is that everyone wants their particular class to be "the uber-class", so they waill complain about any class that they are unable to beat at PvP or Duels. People who complain this way aren't asking "wuts the best calss?", they are saying "maik my calss the best!!!LOLZ!!".
Hunters didn't really get buffed so much as changed considerably. For some it was a buff, for others it was a nerf. However, there have been many people complaining about hunters simply because they are different, and thus the unexpected things they are doing are causing them to beat me! Wahhh~
Yes, it truly is, "Nerf the class that beats me more than 40% of the time." Very rarely do this threads pop up as a result of PvE concerns, especially with raiding at an all-time low right now.
Yes, it truly is, "Nerf the class that beats me more than 40% of the time." Very rarely do this threads pop up as a result of PvE concerns, especially with raiding at an all-time low right now.
Only the exceptions can be exceptional.
[quote=]I don't think it's <last buffed class>. I think it's more of a "NERF <class that squishes me like a grape>". The fact is that everyone wants their particular class to be "the uber-class", so they waill complain about any class that they are unable to beat at PvP or Duels. People who complain this way aren't asking "wuts the best calss?", they are saying "maik my calss the best!!!LOLZ!!".[/quote]
all i want to ask is, can any other class effectivley KITE you while draining your life. and then even if you kill the lock, you still die from DOT spells ticking away at your life? yes they did up the locks and hunters and rogues and nerf a few other classes. they gave us mutilate o.o they also gave us cloak of shadows. but they did not give us the attack power that goes with those abilites. but they did give the locks spells adjusted str that they will have gotten in TBC. now is that fair? in TBC a rogue base stats will have over 7khp. pre BC (now) we only muster 4k does that seem fair atm? no. when should blizzard implment these changes? IN TBC not beforehand. so a lock having full BC dot spell str now is a highly unfair advantage. i dont care if rogue is the OMFG i AM TEH #1 class. i like the rogues playstyle.
This so called nerf of the locks has happened on a test server it has not been implemented in the actuall servers yet.
Edited, Jan 9th 2007 10:14am by XPuggX
I think that locks get more ******** because of the way they fight. As mentioned with fear kiting and DoT ticking away plust the fact they can heal and dmg you at the same time with a spammable spell makes them a 1v1 nightmare.
Hunters too are a 1v1 headache, but not nearly like the lock. Which is why more people complain about the locks. Honestly hunters get scary when in group vs. group and they go partially un-noticed by alot of the enemy team. They can pick people off so quick with no one on them its sick really.
If your like me Ive played both hunter and lock,(though neither higher than lvl 30) I target them first in alot of fights, just so I dont have to worry about them as much.
Hunters too are a 1v1 headache, but not nearly like the lock. Which is why more people complain about the locks. Honestly hunters get scary when in group vs. group and they go partially un-noticed by alot of the enemy team. They can pick people off so quick with no one on them its sick really.
If your like me Ive played both hunter and lock,(though neither higher than lvl 30) I target them first in alot of fights, just so I dont have to worry about them as much.
XPuggX wrote:
ohmikeghod wrote:
I don't think it's <last buffed class>. I think it's more of a "NERF <class that squishes me like a grape>". The fact is that everyone wants their particular class to be "the uber-class", so they waill complain about any class that they are unable to beat at PvP or Duels. People who complain this way aren't asking "wuts the best calss?", they are saying "maik my calss the best!!!LOLZ!!".
all i want to ask is, can any other class effectivley KITE you while draining your life. and then even if you kill the lock, you still die from DOT spells ticking away at your life? yes they did up the locks and hunters and rogues and nerf a few other classes. they gave us mutilate o.o they also gave us cloak of shadows. but they did not give us the attack power that goes with those abilites. but they did give the locks spells adjusted str that they will have gotten in TBC. now is that fair? in TBC a rogue base stats will have over 7khp. pre BC (now) we only muster 4k does that seem fair atm? no. when should blizzard implment these changes? IN TBC not beforehand. so a lock having full BC dot spell str now is a highly unfair advantage. i dont care if rogue is the OMFG i AM TEH #1 class. i like the rogues playstyle.
This so called nerf of the locks has happened on a test server it has not been implemented in the actuall servers yet.
Did I mention warlocks in my post? No. I've seen a lot of "Nerf Rogues", "Nerf Hunters", "Nerf Druids", etc. posts - all by people from the classes most easily beaten by the class mentioned, or by people who can't play their class very well, even if their class is the other's nemesis. Just because you are a Rogue that can't seem to stunlock a warlock, you say that they are overpowered. It's what I said - "NERF <class that squishes me like a grape>". Yes, 'locks are overpowered against mages. Yes, our felpuppy shows where you're hiding. I don't see a whole lot of "Nerf 'locks!" from Hunters, though. A well-played hunter can dispatch a warlock with ease (and it doesn't matter that e-peener warlocks say that they aren't a problem).
Edited, Jan 9th 2007 9:46am by ohmikeghod
Everyone is piling on Locks because of the cowardly way they go about killing you.
I can think of little as frustrating as finally getting to that pesky warlock and smashing his skull in, only to know that you're going to die 30 seconds later anyway.
I can think of little as frustrating as finally getting to that pesky warlock and smashing his skull in, only to know that you're going to die 30 seconds later anyway.
I personally have a great distaste for all the CC classes. The ones that pick a target and that target gets to do nothing but watch as he dies. This isnt PvP.
Even the ones that break on dmg I hate so much. I run with my brother and he is a mage. So that means when we run into 2/3/4 people we get to pick one and keep him out of the fight until he is the last one alive with sheep. Just keep putting him in sheep till the others die, its so easy.
Fear/sheep/stun locks its just not fun for the guy who gets to do nothing before dieing.
So I guess Im a bit bitter about the CC spells in the game, so give good CC to a class like a lock with other good tools and DoTs that might kill you even if you win and you have an easy class to hate.
Even the ones that break on dmg I hate so much. I run with my brother and he is a mage. So that means when we run into 2/3/4 people we get to pick one and keep him out of the fight until he is the last one alive with sheep. Just keep putting him in sheep till the others die, its so easy.
Fear/sheep/stun locks its just not fun for the guy who gets to do nothing before dieing.
So I guess Im a bit bitter about the CC spells in the game, so give good CC to a class like a lock with other good tools and DoTs that might kill you even if you win and you have an easy class to hate.
Quote:
Everyone is piling on Locks because of the cowardly way they go about killing you.
What do you mean, "cowardly"?
If it's because we keep a healthy distance between ourselves and who we're fighting against, well... you do know that we wear tissue paper, right? And we don't have the holy shield that priests do, nor do we have ice block/shield like many Mages do, and we generally don't have a Voidwalker out to sacrifice for a piddly <1000 temporary damage absorption shield.
Quote:
I can think of little as frustrating as finally getting to that pesky warlock and smashing his skull in, only to know that you're going to die 30 seconds later anyway.
I find it funny that in 99% of people's arguments against Warlocks, they ALWAYS say "after the Warlock dies," as if it's a given fact that the Warlock will always die before the DOTs wear. Apparently, this is a huge argument for a Warlock nerf.
EDIT: Sorry, didn't mean to turn the thread into yet another Warlock thread, I just can't stand seeing people saying these things about 'locks anymore. D:
Edited, Jan 9th 2007 1:11pm by Khrystalmyth
Quote:
I find it funny that in 99% of people's arguments against Warlocks, they ALWAYS say "after the Warlock dies," as if it's a given fact that the Warlock will always die before the DOTs wear. Apparently, this is a huge argument for a Warlock nerf.
Most classes are going to at least give the other class a tough fight. When 1v1, you pound away at class X while he pounds away at you, all the while watching the two health bars to see who's going to make it. You may be a gnome's ankle bite away from death, but this time your last crit or dodge was the difference maker, and that's rewarding in a small way.
The problem with facing warlocks is even when you are the one who survives, there's a fair chance you're still going to die in a few ticks. I know it's extremely frustrating for me, and I imagine the same is true for a lot of others.
It's not just that Locks kill me a lot... every clas has a nemesis. It's that even when I beat you, there's a good chance I'll still die.
Why oh why do these threads always turn into a complain about locks? Can't we ever keep a non-class specific thread non-class specific?
where did i say i struggle with locks?
and that my friend is where your bulldog mouth over runs your puppydog @$$.
i dont struggle with lock's i have no problems with locks sometimes they can be a pain but if cool downs are used properly ie. blind pet bum rush lock the lock dies. please dont put words into my mouth that i simply did not speak.
yes they are overpowered. but thats my thoughts. the same you are entitled to yours.
Quote:
Just because you are a Rogue that can't seem to stunlock a warlock, you say that they are overpowered.
and that my friend is where your bulldog mouth over runs your puppydog @$$.
i dont struggle with lock's i have no problems with locks sometimes they can be a pain but if cool downs are used properly ie. blind pet bum rush lock the lock dies. please dont put words into my mouth that i simply did not speak.
yes they are overpowered. but thats my thoughts. the same you are entitled to yours.
to touch on the original topic, I highly doubt it is a distraction buff, or a ploy to secretly power other classes.
I personally have never found a specific class more difficult than the rest. Maybe I have just pvpd to the point that its no longer a matter of class, but skill. Every fight I have, 1v1, 1v10, 10v10 I always assess the situation differently. If I'm fighting against a lock, they are squishy but can pwn me via dot's. My basis is Silencing shot out the bat, then Aimed shot, arcane shot, run in scatter shot multishot, sting (all while my pet is chewing) then white damage and arcane shots with the hope they fall.
Paladins are tough, I kite them a lot. I usually silence shot out the bat, freezing trap, aimed shot kite kite when he goes to heal silence shot again.
I could go on and on, I don't feel that any class should be nerfed. Play your class. Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Find the weak points, exploit them to the fullest, and die minutes later to a 2v1. Have fun and keep rethinking strategies, that is the best thing you can do.
I personally have never found a specific class more difficult than the rest. Maybe I have just pvpd to the point that its no longer a matter of class, but skill. Every fight I have, 1v1, 1v10, 10v10 I always assess the situation differently. If I'm fighting against a lock, they are squishy but can pwn me via dot's. My basis is Silencing shot out the bat, then Aimed shot, arcane shot, run in scatter shot multishot, sting (all while my pet is chewing) then white damage and arcane shots with the hope they fall.
Paladins are tough, I kite them a lot. I usually silence shot out the bat, freezing trap, aimed shot kite kite when he goes to heal silence shot again.
I could go on and on, I don't feel that any class should be nerfed. Play your class. Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Find the weak points, exploit them to the fullest, and die minutes later to a 2v1. Have fun and keep rethinking strategies, that is the best thing you can do.
Vallock wrote:
I personally have a great distaste for all the CC classes. The ones that pick a target and that target gets to do nothing but watch as he dies. This isnt PvP.
Even the ones that break on dmg I hate so much. I run with my brother and he is a mage. So that means when we run into 2/3/4 people we get to pick one and keep him out of the fight until he is the last one alive with sheep. Just keep putting him in sheep till the others die, its so easy.
Fear/sheep/stun locks its just not fun for the guy who gets to do nothing before dieing.
So I guess Im a bit bitter about the CC spells in the game, so give good CC to a class like a lock with other good tools and DoTs that might kill you even if you win and you have an easy class to hate.
Even the ones that break on dmg I hate so much. I run with my brother and he is a mage. So that means when we run into 2/3/4 people we get to pick one and keep him out of the fight until he is the last one alive with sheep. Just keep putting him in sheep till the others die, its so easy.
Fear/sheep/stun locks its just not fun for the guy who gets to do nothing before dieing.
So I guess Im a bit bitter about the CC spells in the game, so give good CC to a class like a lock with other good tools and DoTs that might kill you even if you win and you have an easy class to hate.
CC is a very important part of PVP. If a mage had no CC, then exactly how would they defend against a warrior that charges them with plate and beats the tar out of them while dual-wielding fast weapons, interrupting their cast times?
So if you nerf CC, you need to also give all the classes the same armor. And oh, eliminate casting interrupts. Oh, yeah, and you should make sure that all classes can use the same weapons. And the same abilities. And.... wait... everyone's the same class now.
Let's just go play checkers and be done with it then.
Quote:
So if you nerf CC, you need to also give all the classes the same armor. And oh, eliminate casting interrupts. Oh, yeah, and you should make sure that all classes can use the same weapons. And the same abilities. And.... wait... everyone's the same class now.
Yea cause that is the only way to make up for not having CC is to make everyone the same.
I was explaining my earlier comments about locks simply admitting I dislike them more for CC mechanics than them wtfpwning me.
As for CC MMOs should stop using them as a PvE crutch as they ruin PvP. You mention the game not being worth playing if we are all the same and I agree, but how fun is it to play when you run into battle and literally do nothing for a long time then finally die? Yea about as fun as everyone being the same.
CC isnt going to go away I know that so all your flaming just sounds retarded.
However genius you think that maybe they could tone down the CC powers like sheep? Oh wait thats what they did for Arenas I wonder why they did that?
Oh and I agree that certain classes without their CC would be gimp but I didnt post that because it wasnt the point. So try not to read into things too much before getting your panties in a bunch....
Oh and last but not least....get off my nuts.
Seriously, I don't think blizzard listens to much of the nerf posts, sure maybe some of the bring to light an oversight or abuse that they didn't think of. I would imagine they do their own internal testing. Yes it sucks for me to die to a warlock dot after he died, but really as an affliction warlock you aren't there to do crazy instant damage but consistent damage over time to multiple enemies. If the warlock gets killed and all dots are gone well it doesn't seem like it properly reflects the type of caster they are.
I love killing a lock still having dots on me, they don't release yet and I sit down to eat. Nothing like outliving the dots with food.
Hunters with silencing shot. Please it isn't that long it is a 41 point talent, find a way to survive.
I think people can't live with loosing to someone else and just owning up that someone was more prepared and better than they are. Add to the fact that there are some people you just are not going to beat if they are ready for you.
Example for me mages with dragons breath and fire spec'd totally own me. I am a BM spec'd hunter so I rely on my pet to stun them for the couple of seconds so I can get some damage in at range. For some reason mages can still use blink when stunned with intimidation. Now they are in my dead zone, drop a trap hope they are stupid enough to run over it (and now with me using a snake pet with a dot I can't use the ice trap, downside to the pet). I have to find a way to get back to range, I don't have scatter. So I am hit with nova, mage is off away again and then the crit blast from the fire ball or whatever spell they got open.
Do I go whining that mages need to be nerfed. No they beat me I can't beat everyone. The rogue that sneaks up on me and stun locks me for the entire fight and I die do I whine they need to be nerfed, no.
If the people whining about nerfs spend half of their time looking into their own class and making some constructive posts maybe things would be better. Personally I think the whole problem is American's attitudes the whole "It isn't my fault it is your fault". There is much less Nerf X class on the EU boards, maybe their moderators deleted these post or maybe these people have different attitudes.
That isn't to say that there isn't times that some of these people are right and an ability that was add is a bit to powerful.
I love killing a lock still having dots on me, they don't release yet and I sit down to eat. Nothing like outliving the dots with food.
Hunters with silencing shot. Please it isn't that long it is a 41 point talent, find a way to survive.
I think people can't live with loosing to someone else and just owning up that someone was more prepared and better than they are. Add to the fact that there are some people you just are not going to beat if they are ready for you.
Example for me mages with dragons breath and fire spec'd totally own me. I am a BM spec'd hunter so I rely on my pet to stun them for the couple of seconds so I can get some damage in at range. For some reason mages can still use blink when stunned with intimidation. Now they are in my dead zone, drop a trap hope they are stupid enough to run over it (and now with me using a snake pet with a dot I can't use the ice trap, downside to the pet). I have to find a way to get back to range, I don't have scatter. So I am hit with nova, mage is off away again and then the crit blast from the fire ball or whatever spell they got open.
Do I go whining that mages need to be nerfed. No they beat me I can't beat everyone. The rogue that sneaks up on me and stun locks me for the entire fight and I die do I whine they need to be nerfed, no.
If the people whining about nerfs spend half of their time looking into their own class and making some constructive posts maybe things would be better. Personally I think the whole problem is American's attitudes the whole "It isn't my fault it is your fault". There is much less Nerf X class on the EU boards, maybe their moderators deleted these post or maybe these people have different attitudes.
That isn't to say that there isn't times that some of these people are right and an ability that was add is a bit to powerful.
I think the main reasons 'locks get ******* about more than hunters are because people are so accustomed to complaining about warlocks they just keep at it by pure inertia and that hunters mostly do "Good ol'" burst damage like most other classes so if you incapacitate/run away/kill them off, that's the end of it, as opposed to warlocks DoT damage.
XPuggX wrote:
all i want to ask is, can any other class effectivley KITE you while draining your life. and then even if you kill the lock, you still die from DOT spells ticking away at your life? yes they did up the locks and hunters and rogues and nerf a few other classes. they gave us mutilate o.o they also gave us cloak of shadows. but they did not give us the attack power that goes with those abilites. but they did give the locks spells adjusted str that they will have gotten in TBC. now is that fair? in TBC a rogue base stats will have over 7khp. pre BC (now) we only muster 4k does that seem fair atm? no. when should blizzard implment these changes? IN TBC not beforehand. so a lock having full BC dot spell str now is a highly unfair advantage. i dont care if rogue is the OMFG i AM TEH #1 class. i like the rogues playstyle.
And here is the drunk of the week!
Rogues stun locks and crits warlocks for over 2k damage, killing them in less then 10 seconds with absolutely no chance of reaction.. And with all 3 DoTs (CoA, Corruption and Immolate), they can do no more then 2.5k damage AFTER 25 sec, time enought to kill them twice or three times.
Warlocks get NERFED in the last patch, their Felguard pet got a great damage reduction. And reducing mana cost of Soul Fire is crap, because that spell has a 1 minute CD and eat a soulshard. Warlocks don`t stay alive for that much and, of course, players DO resist the spell quite often.
Honestly, play a warlock first before whinning about them. Warlocks got several nerfs from lately patches, it`s an insult hear people complaining about them. I can understand if a warrior has trouble beating a warlock, but, PLEASE, no dumb rogues/hunters whinning about them. They DO eat warlocks for breakfast very easily.
And I agree people always complain about the last class who got a buff. Here, in this case, clearly the hunters. And as someone said, it`s not "nerf the XXX", it`s always "make my class less likely to be powned by XXX".
Edited, Jan 10th 2007 7:08am by phabyo
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