Cannot find a weak point...Follow

I excel at finding weak points in other class' designs and exploiting them fully. This has worked against every class I've ever tried to fight, even the warrior who I so recently thought was the Rogue's hardest opponent.

I was wrong.

I have never had to fight a paladin on the bg (I am alliance after all) but with BC coming out so soon I decided to get into a duel with one and see what they got. My *** still hurts from the complete and total rape I received.

Paladin I was dueling was 0/10/41, and had the following:

12 second immunity to everything.
Like, 6 second immunity to melee attacks, and could still melee/cast magic.
One 7 second incapacitate (2 seconds longer than gouge) on no Diminishing Return!
One 6 second stun (a full 5 point KS) on no Diminishing Return!
Impressive heavy melee damage.
Extremely high HP/Armor
Stun and Incapacitate mentioned above are RANGED.
Humongous self healing ability
20% low hp ranged exectue
Various ranged offensive spells to keep any kind of melee kiting out.

So I really can't find a weakness. I know there must be one present, but I cannot find it. I'm not ******** OP, I'm just trying to figure out how in the hell I'm supposed to beat this guy. He's got enough HP/Armor to survive the entire course of even a blind extended stunlock, he's got a trinket to remove stun and his bubbles do it anyway, he's got several ranged abilities that pervent him from being kiteable by a rogue and he can stun me usually as long as I can stun him. The only thing he doesn't have is stealth, which would make me think that blizzard never wants rogues fighting paladins and we should just run away.

I know that he can die. All it would take was a simple ganking on the BG when he's low hp or low mana. But how in the hell are you supposed to kill him in a fair fight as a rogue?


Edited, Jan 8th 2007 2:35am by Shaolinz

Nah don't nerf them, I'm definetly going to make a B. Elf paladin once BC comes out and I get my rogue to 70.

The disadvantage of paladin is again they don't get to pick their fights. I expect that waiting till one is low on mana would almost always end in defeat for him, but you can't really do that in a fair fight.

Unless you were, ironically, a blood elf rogue and then you could drain his mana AND silence him at key points to keep them from rocking you.

Mortal strike ftw?

lol, why bother, it's only going to get hi-jacked by some self-proclaimed know it all anyway.


heh.

Edited, Jan 7th 2007 9:53pm by Webjunky

Ummm, he isn't saying Nerf Paladins.

He is asking for help to find a strategy to beat them. He doesn't want the class changed. He is asking for help from this community in a way that there is no guide for him to look at.

Maybe being helpful would be nice.

Unfortunately, I am in the same boat. I have no strategy for Paladins, as I have no clue what to do.

All I know is: If they shielded, you should bandage if they put away their wep or are bandaging.

As a Rogue, you have little hope. I have seen Paladins that hit their shield about half a second after the fourth SS, usually wasting the Rogue's Evis.

You are basically fighting a Warrior with more defense and the ability to heal.

I am curious to hear responses as well.

This is coming from a pallys point of view. Im a holy specced PvE so i may not be the best help.

When i have hardest time with rogues is when they stun-lock me so i have to use my bubble, than ill throw down a con and i will HoJ them hoping to kill them but, if they do survive they will hop out of my con and vanish. Ill start spaming con. Generally if the rogue is good player they will wait till i use up a decent amount of my mana make me go down to 35% (i will have 50% when they vanish) yah my pvp gear is horid. I will stop con to conserve my mana and they will jump out and stun-lock me and kick me (my bubble will still be on cooldown). I might die, i might not just depending on who good the rogues spec and gear is.

Hope this helped

Can divine shield get out of stunlock, or just protection?

To truely excel beyond limits in pvp as a rogue....use engineering. It will help tremendously with extra stuns and buy you more time for cooldowns, bandaging, etc; It is hard as hell to beat a paladin, especially now since the damage increase. Now they are essentially just warriors with the ability to heal (against rogues). Try to keep them stunlocked as much as possible and bandage when they bubble.

That is about all you can do against them now, that and pray that you get backup as soon as possible :P

My priest is alliance so the only experience I have with paladins there are duels. With a disc/holy spec it can be a challenge beating paladins but it's possible. To start, the main things I focus on is draining their mana and dispelling their buffs. Every chance I try to work their mana down. If they're cleanse bots that don't know how to effectively use their skills I'll apply a low rank Shadow Word: Pain several times into the fight so they lose a couple hundred mana compared to my negligible amount. Other than that just keep distance and whittle them down. If they bubble I use that time to give myself some space and heal up. Fights are usually long so depending on when they use Hammer of Justice I'll either trinket out of it early or save it for the next time.

On the horde side most of my pally fights are with my 57 warlock that has pretty crappy gear which makes many bouts an uphill battle. I'm affliction spec and usually PVP with my felhunter which does help a lot though. My main priority when fighting a paladin on my warlock is to make him use up his bubble early. Usually I could do this if I get the drop on one and open up with Unstable Affliction. Then I dot him up on the run with instant casts Curse of Agony, Siphon Life, and Corruption. With that many dots running the pally will usually use their 12 second bubble. That 12 seconds I use for more running while waiting for it to expire. If he tries to use Hammer of Justice to close the distance then the Felhunter could eat it.

Once the shield is gone then the real fight begins. Unstable affliction helps a lot in keeping my dots on the pally so I try to keep it up as much as possible. I then keep my distance with fear all the while dotting him up and using mana drain to lower his mana. I try to save my death coil for heal interrupts but also have the felhunter to silence. With that I usually can win against pallys on my warlock but as I said earlier my gear sucks so if anything goes wrong I end up dead rather quickly.

I have been ganked many many times on my pally by over zealous rogues. Im talkin 50% hp and mp ganks.

It rarely ends well for the rogue. It usually takes a resisted stun for me to lose, which happens from time to time, since I have to stun or bubble to heal. Cant heal against kick/KS/gouge.

One of those rock paper scissors things. I fear rogues the least out there on the battlefield.

support

Edited, Jan 8th 2007 1:20pm by sunshinetwo

As a Retribution Paladin, I'd like to give my two cents.

My weak point is my mana pool and my cooldowns. I can dish out extreme damage in a short amount of time, but only once. When my Hammer of Justice (6 sec stun) is down and Repentance likewise, I'm toast.

Once I've spent my Bubble I'm basically a free HK.

Stunlock is your friend. I can Bubble out of it, yes, but then I just wasted my only emergency timeout ability. Once the Bubble comes up, run away and start First Aid or whatever. The Paladin will have to a.) run after and break First Aid, thus spending valuable seconds of immunity on something like that, or b.) stay put and heal self.

Run away -> Stealth -> Sap, also works great.

And Rupture is your friend along with Expose Armor. The only way to remove either of them is to blow the Bubble. The main goal fighting a Paladin is to get him to blow his Bubble early on.

At least that's how I beat 'em.

Attack - Pally Bubbles - Run Around - Bubble Dissappears - Stun Vanish

Rinse and repeat until he's out of mana and dead.

Rogues suck because of that.