I have found that while on my warrior in PVP battles, at lvl 39 I was able to kill a priest my level or slightly under 6-10 NON twinked.. Rogues about 7-10 twinks killed me....
Hunters seemed to be my biggest problem.. With all of their poisoned arrows and Neumerous slowing effect and Slow rage build up.. by the time I finally got to the hunter... I was dead, thanks to their pets and relentless shooting and running.
As I hit 40 the shadow priest has completely destroyed me... Not to mention those dam warlocks that I would have to suprize with a hge crit to have any chance. Now I find my self not winning at all lvl to lvl v.s a Shadow priest or a warlock. I find it very unfair considering I have to BUILD up rage to attack, only to watch it go away in 1 attack? It never lets the Warrior actually unleash a " score " on an enemy, usually it is a battle that takes a while until I can get rage and use 2 attacks... and if I dont have rage... then a priest can just heal themselfs and it is all over again. And Not to mention cooldowns of attacks that are essential. And attacks such as Heroic Strike and Cleave, are required to have a previous melee attac befre using either. I find this unfair and they should be instant attakcs to give us a chance to kill a Shadow priest or a warlock before we have 7 curses on us, and EVEN then we will end up dying because the surses for somereason stay on us after they are dead.. I also Notice that my Rend will go away from the enemny as soon as I die... Please I am asking for a little understanding....
I say DE-Nerf the Warrior give them a chance.
Thoughts are Encouraged
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Get to lvl 60 before start talking about nerfs, overpowered, etc..
Classes from lvl 1 to 60 change so much at each level that it's pretty much useless to discuss one as being nerfed and/or overpowered.
At lvl 20 range (for example, a warrior may be the ultimate class, but at lvl 40 range may get beat severely by classes you used to beat severely.
Alot of it has to do with abilities, ranks and available equipment.
I hated PvPing with my warrior in the 20s. You had Hunters with cheetah, Shamans with Ghost Wolf and Druids with Travel Form and there's little ol' warrior-me trying to catch up. And if I was trying to run away, forget it.
So please, get to lvl 60, where the classes are supposed to be balanced, and then start talking about which ones are nerfed and which are overpowered.
Of course in 2 weeks, we'll have to wait until lvl 70 to start talking about it again.
Classes from lvl 1 to 60 change so much at each level that it's pretty much useless to discuss one as being nerfed and/or overpowered.
At lvl 20 range (for example, a warrior may be the ultimate class, but at lvl 40 range may get beat severely by classes you used to beat severely.
Alot of it has to do with abilities, ranks and available equipment.
I hated PvPing with my warrior in the 20s. You had Hunters with cheetah, Shamans with Ghost Wolf and Druids with Travel Form and there's little ol' warrior-me trying to catch up. And if I was trying to run away, forget it.
So please, get to lvl 60, where the classes are supposed to be balanced, and then start talking about which ones are nerfed and which are overpowered.
Of course in 2 weeks, we'll have to wait until lvl 70 to start talking about it again.
11 posts
Well I understand what you are aying bt even now with friends that have their lvl 60s people are complaining about the warrior and the shadow priest and the Lock.. I just feel Like I am a slug when trying to generate rage... and unleashing skills.. Do you even agreee with that... Because if you have no problems with that please tell me your secret.
No, they're not nerfed, they're sort of better than they were before the patch.
High DPS.
High Armor.
Light Healing.
High stun resist.
Large healing from being stunned.
Moves to counter almost every status effect in the game.
Nope.
High Armor.
Light Healing.
High stun resist.
Large healing from being stunned.
Moves to counter almost every status effect in the game.
Nope.
I understand what you are saying, I too am a warrior. I'm still wet behind the ears, at lvl 31. I have had ups and downs when it comes to PvP, both battleground and world. I have learned something as a warrior. Warriors are probably the most dependent class in the game. The thing we do best is hit things and get hit, when it comes to other aspects of the game we really depend on other things to help us along. We expect to get hit, a lot, so we depend on equipment to keep us alive. We need to kill something fast, we depend on dps to take them down while our equipment keeps us alive. When we are low on health we depend on the healers to keep us alive and kicking.
If you don't have anyone helping you out, there is something you can depend on that is just as good. The helpful little potion. They seriously are last minute life savers. Fighting a rogue that keeps dodging?, fighting a warlock that keeps fearing you, unable to hit the enemy to build up rage for that huge execute? Well drink a rage potion and get that instant boost of rage. Holding your own against another Warrior, when you realize he has more hp than you and if it keeps up you will drop first, greater healing and now you have the upper hand. Fighting a mage and they keep freezing you inplace and then nuking you from afar, magic resistance potion will be your best friend.
These potions (though expensive from the ah), are not that hard to gather the herbs for and create yourself (granted you would have to take up both herbalism and alchemy), but they truely can be lifesavers if used in the right situations.
PS. I re-read through this, does this sound like an infomercial advertisement to anyone else?
If you don't have anyone helping you out, there is something you can depend on that is just as good. The helpful little potion. They seriously are last minute life savers. Fighting a rogue that keeps dodging?, fighting a warlock that keeps fearing you, unable to hit the enemy to build up rage for that huge execute? Well drink a rage potion and get that instant boost of rage. Holding your own against another Warrior, when you realize he has more hp than you and if it keeps up you will drop first, greater healing and now you have the upper hand. Fighting a mage and they keep freezing you inplace and then nuking you from afar, magic resistance potion will be your best friend.
These potions (though expensive from the ah), are not that hard to gather the herbs for and create yourself (granted you would have to take up both herbalism and alchemy), but they truely can be lifesavers if used in the right situations.
PS. I re-read through this, does this sound like an infomercial advertisement to anyone else?
MetalJeff wrote:
My hunter seems to own Warriors that are even upwards to 5 levels above me. Maybe those I kill just suck at playing, or I just rock at being a Hunter. A lot of warriors I've destroyed just sit there when they see me shooting them and take a death because they don't want to fight back (for some reason).
Who cares tho, more honor for me!
Who cares tho, more honor for me!
I'm not even going to lie, sometimes I just stand there and take the death, I will fire my gun because I don't want to have a shut-out you know. To be honest sometimes I just don't want to put forth the effort to chase a hunter's *** across half a zone just for a kill, it's a real pain, so I say forget that and just sit there and fire my gun as many times as possible.
Shaolinz wrote:
Light Healing.
??? Aids and Potions only. Anything else is Spec-only.
Shaolinz wrote:
High stun resist.
Really? Wish I had that. Spec-only.
Shaolinz wrote:
Large healing from being stunned.
Spec-only.
Shaolinz wrote:
Moves to counter almost every status effect in the game.
Funniest thing I've read in a long time.
Warriors are incredibly gear and spec needy to function great in PvP.
Well seoman, how many warriors do you know that walk around without putting any talent points into specs?
The point is, if they're pvp specced they're still pretty decent at pve and are complete powerhouses at pvp. If they're pve specced, they take years to kill in pvp and are thus again complete powerhouses at pvp.
And I believe you have a move that counters everything...
Zerker Rage gets rid of incapacitate and there's another that throws away Fear, two of the three debuffs that can really hurt a warrior. With Arms build, an orc warrior has close to a 50% stun resist and also regains 10% hp every time he is stunned. They have intercept to catch up to fleeing opponents and hamstring to keep opponents from fleeing once they're in range. Mortal Strike on a well geared warrior does more damage than even Ambush and it has no positioning requirement and not to mention overpower does an exuberant amount of damage with no chance to dodge it if your opponents do happen to dodge that Mortal Strike.
Saying Warriors are underpowered is like saying sex sucks.
Oh, and did I mention AoE melee attacks plus normal melee attacks critting for upwards 1k?
Edited, Jan 5th 2007 10:12pm by Shaolinz
The point is, if they're pvp specced they're still pretty decent at pve and are complete powerhouses at pvp. If they're pve specced, they take years to kill in pvp and are thus again complete powerhouses at pvp.
And I believe you have a move that counters everything...
Zerker Rage gets rid of incapacitate and there's another that throws away Fear, two of the three debuffs that can really hurt a warrior. With Arms build, an orc warrior has close to a 50% stun resist and also regains 10% hp every time he is stunned. They have intercept to catch up to fleeing opponents and hamstring to keep opponents from fleeing once they're in range. Mortal Strike on a well geared warrior does more damage than even Ambush and it has no positioning requirement and not to mention overpower does an exuberant amount of damage with no chance to dodge it if your opponents do happen to dodge that Mortal Strike.
Saying Warriors are underpowered is like saying sex sucks.
Oh, and did I mention AoE melee attacks plus normal melee attacks critting for upwards 1k?
Edited, Jan 5th 2007 10:12pm by Shaolinz
I guess since they were 'normalized' I suppose you could call that a nerf. They were more powerful before, and now they are not as powerful. Good or bad? I dunno, but it's definitely nerf of some sort.
Shaolinz.
I appreciate you trying to help warriors out and convince everyone that we are not as nerfed as everybody thinks. I too, think the same way, that rather than believe warriors were nerfed, I just believe we were changed.
That being said: There is a couple things I'd just like to address.
This is only available through a Fury spec warrior either through 'Blood Craze' which, with 3/3 heals 3% of your HP over 6 seconds. With 5000 HP at 60, this is a measly 150 HP. How many classes hit with one hit for less than 150 at level 60? That Talent is a laugh.
The other option is 'Bloodthirst', which at 60 will heal a warrior for 20 HP each successful melee hit within 6 seconds to a total of 5 heals. 100 HP - Stop the press lmao. This doesn't help at all.
So, like the others have said, we are completely relient on Bandages and Potions for heals.
If you are Arms spec, then yes 'Second Wind' is a TBC godsend as far as useful PvP talents goes. But, not all Warriors are Arms spec either.
The most we can get with talents is 15%.
Only Orc warriors get anything higher. Because their racial is already 15%.
I laughed, We cannot cure any poisons, slow effects, curses, horror effects, dots or otherwise at ALL in battle stance.
Only fear and incapacitating effects can be dispelled by 'Berserker rage' and fear by 'Deathwish' while in Berserk stance.
For the most part you are right, most Warriors should learn their class. But I don't believe we are as powerful as you make us sound.
I appreciate you trying to help warriors out and convince everyone that we are not as nerfed as everybody thinks. I too, think the same way, that rather than believe warriors were nerfed, I just believe we were changed.
That being said: There is a couple things I'd just like to address.
Quote:
Light Healing.
This is only available through a Fury spec warrior either through 'Blood Craze' which, with 3/3 heals 3% of your HP over 6 seconds. With 5000 HP at 60, this is a measly 150 HP. How many classes hit with one hit for less than 150 at level 60? That Talent is a laugh.
The other option is 'Bloodthirst', which at 60 will heal a warrior for 20 HP each successful melee hit within 6 seconds to a total of 5 heals. 100 HP - Stop the press lmao. This doesn't help at all.
So, like the others have said, we are completely relient on Bandages and Potions for heals.
If you are Arms spec, then yes 'Second Wind' is a TBC godsend as far as useful PvP talents goes. But, not all Warriors are Arms spec either.
Quote:
High stun resist.
The most we can get with talents is 15%.
Only Orc warriors get anything higher. Because their racial is already 15%.
Quote:
Moves to counter almost every status effect in the game.
I laughed, We cannot cure any poisons, slow effects, curses, horror effects, dots or otherwise at ALL in battle stance.
Only fear and incapacitating effects can be dispelled by 'Berserker rage' and fear by 'Deathwish' while in Berserk stance.
For the most part you are right, most Warriors should learn their class. But I don't believe we are as powerful as you make us sound.
Shaolinz wrote:
Well seoman, how many warriors do you know that walk around without putting any talent points into specs?
The point is, if they're pvp specced they're still pretty decent at pve and are complete powerhouses at pvp. If they're pve specced, they take years to kill in pvp and are thus again complete powerhouses at pvp.
And I believe you have a move that counters everything...
Zerker Rage gets rid of incapacitate and there's another that throws away Fear, two of the three debuffs that can really hurt a warrior. With Arms build, an orc warrior has close to a 50% stun resist and also regains 10% hp every time he is stunned. They have intercept to catch up to fleeing opponents and hamstring to keep opponents from fleeing once they're in range. Mortal Strike on a well geared warrior does more damage than even Ambush and it has no positioning requirement and not to mention overpower does an exuberant amount of damage with no chance to dodge it if your opponents do happen to dodge that Mortal Strike.
Saying Warriors are underpowered is like saying sex sucks.
Oh, and did I mention AoE melee attacks plus normal melee attacks critting for upwards 1k?
The point is, if they're pvp specced they're still pretty decent at pve and are complete powerhouses at pvp. If they're pve specced, they take years to kill in pvp and are thus again complete powerhouses at pvp.
And I believe you have a move that counters everything...
Zerker Rage gets rid of incapacitate and there's another that throws away Fear, two of the three debuffs that can really hurt a warrior. With Arms build, an orc warrior has close to a 50% stun resist and also regains 10% hp every time he is stunned. They have intercept to catch up to fleeing opponents and hamstring to keep opponents from fleeing once they're in range. Mortal Strike on a well geared warrior does more damage than even Ambush and it has no positioning requirement and not to mention overpower does an exuberant amount of damage with no chance to dodge it if your opponents do happen to dodge that Mortal Strike.
Saying Warriors are underpowered is like saying sex sucks.
Oh, and did I mention AoE melee attacks plus normal melee attacks critting for upwards 1k?
As a reference, for "there's another that throws away Fear", you may mean Death Wish. Death wish, though, is in the Fury tree, meaning that all the talents you cited as being expected of a PvP warrior wouldn't be able to be reached due to limited talent points, so no, there's no Death Wish.
"50% stun resist" is actually a max of 30% for ONE race in the game, and is 15% for everyone else.
"10% hp every time he is stunned" is actually a renew-style effect. It's 1% of hp every second for 10 seconds, it's far from instant. While that may sound powerful in and of itself, it suffers from the same problem as restacked Deep Wounds. Refreshes of it will cause you to lose a portion of the original effect. Say for instance, I get stunned. 3 seconds later I get stunned again. 3 seconds after that I get rooted. I just theoretically received enough stuns/roots to regen 30% of my hp, but at best I'll regen 16%, barely HALF of what you would expect, if I even live through to the end because it doesn't stack on itself.
Intercept, heh, right here you show you haven't played a warrior. If you're in a heated battle and are going to try to intercept someone who is getting away, I would say, AT BEST, you'll actually end up at your target maybe 25% of the time. The other 75% of the time your character will either be slowed and not make it to your target before they're able to run off, or due to latency your character will run off too far in one direction or another.
Mortal Strike on a well geared warrior will NOT outdamage Ambush on a comparably geared and spec'd rogue. Do the math if you doubt it, don't come here and spout it as fact when you've never checked.
Saying warriors suck is like saying ************ sucks. Sure you can have some fun with it, but the sad truth is that there's so much more out there that's so much better...
EDIT: man I need to get that firefox spellcheck-before-you-post thingie runnin
Edited, Jan 5th 2007 5:08pm by Ialaman
Shaolinz you posted the exact same post in the last warrior thread and everyone there ripped it apart bit by bit in the exact same way. Learn from your mistakes.
http://wow.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=21&mid=1166584037217968878
Just a reference for Shao so we don't have to make the exact same counter-points a second time.
Just a reference for Shao so we don't have to make the exact same counter-points a second time.
That topic was like, 200 posts long >_>
But thanks for quoting me on a mistake.
However, I'll never agree that warriors are underpowered. Ever.
Edited, Jan 6th 2007 1:52am by Shaolinz
But thanks for quoting me on a mistake.
However, I'll never agree that warriors are underpowered. Ever.
Edited, Jan 6th 2007 1:52am by Shaolinz
RipperzOG wrote:
Thoughts are Encouraged
My thought is that you should go back to the o-boards, where rants about nerfs are encouraged, and everyone wants their own class to be the uber-class. Ranting here is out of sight of Blizzard - they will never see your rant, and they will never make any adjustments due to it.
You have several choices:
- The game stinks since I'm not in the uber-class! I'll quit the game entirely.
- The game stinks since I'm not in the uber-class! I'll post on the O-boards and get sympathy.
- The game stinks since I'm not in the uber-class! I'll post on the o-boards and maybe Bliz will do something (but I'll quit if they don't).
- The game stinks since I'm not in the uber-class! I'll post on Alla and look for sympathy but fail miserably.
- The game stinks since I'm not in the uber-class! Maybe I should learn to adapt my playing to the new reality.
Shaolinz wrote:
Well seoman, how many warriors do you know that walk around without putting any talent points into specs?
Huh? Miss the point much?
The point is that you have to spec in specific abilities in order to get the things you are mentioning. Not all warriors have those abilities all the time.
I'm Arms/Prot, I miss all the Fury Talents, I miss Second Wind, I miss Piercing Shot.
Someone that is Fully Fury would miss Second Wind. Full Prot would miss a ton of stuff.
No one is saying warriors are underpowered, just saying that there is alot wrong with the class that needs help.
Charge has a short range, most ranged and caster attacks have a greater range then Charge. Intercept requires spacing and rage.
All warrior abilities require rage. Dont' get much rage build-up when stunned.
Check up Seo. Another guy already tore that one to shreds.
But thanks. I guess my bias towards the warrior class is the only class I've ever been completely trampled by is a warrior. I duel one all the time who can take me from 100 to 0 almost instantly. I've lost many a duel where he was at 10% and I'm at 100%, I ***** up, he gets within melee range and completely obliterates me before I can get him past 5%.
In other words, the only reason I can really say that I don't think warriors are underpowered is because I know one that can dominate anyone.
Although I still think rogues fair better at group pvp, and I have no problem owning most under geared/under skilled warriors, I have seen the wrath of a good one and I know they are definetly not underpowered.
Edit: And I meant no disrespect with any of this.
Edited, Jan 6th 2007 2:24am by Shaolinz
But thanks. I guess my bias towards the warrior class is the only class I've ever been completely trampled by is a warrior. I duel one all the time who can take me from 100 to 0 almost instantly. I've lost many a duel where he was at 10% and I'm at 100%, I ***** up, he gets within melee range and completely obliterates me before I can get him past 5%.
In other words, the only reason I can really say that I don't think warriors are underpowered is because I know one that can dominate anyone.
Although I still think rogues fair better at group pvp, and I have no problem owning most under geared/under skilled warriors, I have seen the wrath of a good one and I know they are definetly not underpowered.
Edit: And I meant no disrespect with any of this.
Edited, Jan 6th 2007 2:24am by Shaolinz
Shaolinz wrote:
Check up Seo. Another guy already tore that one to shreds.
I'm posting between queues and well rezzing at BG graveyards.
Quote:
Charge has a short range, most ranged and caster attacks have a greater range then Charge. Intercept requires spacing and rage.
All warrior abilities require rage. Dont' get much rage build-up when stunned.
Don't forget that if you have a snare on of any kind (which is totally uncommon to have on you in PvP) Intercept (or Charge) put you somewhere between ten to fifteen yards away from your opponent, after losing control of your character for 3-6 seconds.
I cannot beat anyone 1v1 except non-stun lock rogues and thats only if I actually see them before they hit me.
Mage: I'm slowed the entire fight, can't keep up to hit them once, not that it matters as they kill me in less than 5 seconds most of the time
Warlock: If I'm not in berserker stance to start they have me feared the whole fight. If for some odd reason I am I still die to the dots after I kill them.
Rogue: I'm stunlocked the whole fight, can't do anything but watch my health drop.
Hunter: They keep me slowed and somone of them can even stun me with their pets, I can't get into range to hit them and if I can I end up frozen
Priest: Either I can't overcome their healing or they blast me too 0 faster than the mage.
Shammy: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA /cry
Paladin: I don't ever really fight these guys, but in duels they just outlast me
Druid: Wipe me out so fast I didn't even see them coming
Warrior: Now thats somone I actually have a chance of beating, assuming they aren't in full purples.
Mage: I'm slowed the entire fight, can't keep up to hit them once, not that it matters as they kill me in less than 5 seconds most of the time
Warlock: If I'm not in berserker stance to start they have me feared the whole fight. If for some odd reason I am I still die to the dots after I kill them.
Rogue: I'm stunlocked the whole fight, can't do anything but watch my health drop.
Hunter: They keep me slowed and somone of them can even stun me with their pets, I can't get into range to hit them and if I can I end up frozen
Priest: Either I can't overcome their healing or they blast me too 0 faster than the mage.
Shammy: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA /cry
Paladin: I don't ever really fight these guys, but in duels they just outlast me
Druid: Wipe me out so fast I didn't even see them coming
Warrior: Now thats somone I actually have a chance of beating, assuming they aren't in full purples.
What's wrong with Shammy? That's one class I near always beat. Though being a gnome warrior helps. They really hate it when I kill frost shock. Being able to gimp heals helps too.
Reminds me of one WSG game where I wound up killing the same shaman 4 times, he only killed me once and that was only because he rezzed after I killed him. I honest to god wasn't stalking him. We just kept running into each other.
But let's look at it this way. Once upon a time warlocks were "mushrooms in rock paper scissors" as a certain video maker put it. Fast foreward to today...yeah
Even if warriors ARE nerfed (which I still cast into doubt), expect a snapback.
Ask a ninja voice: I look foreward to killing you all soon!
Edited, Jan 5th 2007 9:46pm by Shamibell
Reminds me of one WSG game where I wound up killing the same shaman 4 times, he only killed me once and that was only because he rezzed after I killed him. I honest to god wasn't stalking him. We just kept running into each other.
But let's look at it this way. Once upon a time warlocks were "mushrooms in rock paper scissors" as a certain video maker put it. Fast foreward to today...yeah
Even if warriors ARE nerfed (which I still cast into doubt), expect a snapback.
Ask a ninja voice: I look foreward to killing you all soon!
Edited, Jan 5th 2007 9:46pm by Shamibell
Quote:
I cannot beat anyone 1v1 except non-stun lock rogues and thats only if I actually see them before they hit me.
Your gear must be terrible then, as I pride myself on killing shamans before they can move and I can't pull down decent blue geared warriors.
Edited, Jan 6th 2007 5:07pm by Shaolinz
De-nerf the warrior? How many times have I been decapitated or have 2k health wiped out in a single blow?
Warriors are strong enough as it is.
Warriors are strong enough as it is.
albertbryan wrote:
De-nerf the warrior? How many times have I been decapitated or have 2k health wiped out in a single blow?
Warriors are strong enough as it is.
Warriors are strong enough as it is.
The only way you can deal that 2k damage is...
1.)with the element of suprise
2.)good gear
3.)an idiot opponent
4.)wasting cooldowns(not a guaranteed sucess)
Of course, with the PvP set being the even-more-common version of tier 0.5, I suppose you can gear for that.
But when you don't have suprise, you don't have anything.
A Rogue can outlive a Warrior...
Half the Rage, few useful ranged combat tools, and no way to escape certain effects spells doom to the Warrior class, l'est they get Cloak of Shadows or something...
Edited, Jan 6th 2007 12:39am by Pifuaa
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