Ok, I'll admit, I'm somewhat of a PvP noob. I just recently started doing Arathi Basin quite a bit and I do fairly well, but there are times that I get completely obliterated. I'm currently using my 28 Rogue for PvP (I liked using my Hunter better, but it's currently level 42 and will be a while before I'm 49.) With my hunter I felt pretty comfortable with the style I was playing. I felt as though my loses were due to mistakes I would make and/or just being bested by a better player (or better equipment). However with my Rogue I'm not sure. I have decent equipment, but I'm by no means a twink. If I Ambush someone, I can usually take them down since I start at such an advantage. However, I've been beat by a warrior that was only level 25 and usually have trouble defeating jobs like shaman, warlock, priets, and other rogues that are 28 or 29. I think my problem might be that I don't move enough during fights. What concerns me is that I will quite often have a lot of trouble against other rogues. Maybe they're twinks but I can't really tell other than looking for goggles and enchants. I started using crippling poison and that has seemed to help me quite a bit, but I've noticed others doing the following things and I'm wondering if they really make a difference:
1. Jumping around while fighting
2. Moving in to attack and then back out for a split second between swings
3. Jumping back and forth.
If there are any guides I would love to see them.
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Scholar
34 posts
I'm interested in hearing from some people too as I've often found myself at a disadvantage when it comes to pvp. One thing I know is that hotkeys are absolutely essential for pvp since battles move so quickly. I didn't use hotkeys much prior to the patch and recently set them up. I've found I'm more effective now at pvp (and pve) than I used to be. However, I'm still curious if most people have a set strategy for pvp battles or if it's all about improvising. It just never seems like I have enough time to improvise and I'm just worried about keeping myself alive, but I have yet to find a strategy that works effectively.
44 posts
i'm one of those who run around like an idiot killing everyone.
i think that running back and fourth and jumping around is very effective. once i was questing with this other rogue (i am a rogue, too) and he requested a duel. i accepted and killed him with only a few good shots. he was like "omg i couldnt even hit you, you moved around way too much" and right there and then i realized...
ever since doing that in PvP i am already at an advantage. i have a LOT of experience in the lvl 19 BG's, and a little in the 29's, but all i know is that the 19 BG are FULLLLL of rogue twinks, and they give decent players like me a bad name. i didn't roll a rogue cause it's fun to twink them, i rolled them because i like being in the front doing damage and using tactics to win.
most rogues go in BG and spam SS.
usually there is not a lot you can do other than that. however, i play on PvP server, and a lot of times when i'm in contested areas (like questing in hillsbrad) i use more abilities, like cheap shot and vanish. whereas in BG you just spam SS because you don't have time to do anything else, you end up getting killed.
rogues are a LOT more useful 1v1 (hence the rogue section saying highest single-target damage), but when you get more than like 2 people on you, it's a die situation cause all you are wearing is leather.
i like instances cause they for the most part are group paced, and you can control the pace usually. i've seen warriors that charge into a group with their little charge/stun thing, and that just drives me nuts. me being a rogue can pull better than a LOT of people i've seen in instances. i sometimes wish i could be in groups with smart people, cause then things would be so much smoother. it's all how smart the person is, really.
but yeah, for PvP, run around if you can (sorry priests and stuff who use wands for majority of damage and need to stand still for heals)
btw: never let a rogue get in range. if you have instant spells, cast them on a rogue the second you can, with them in combat you can't stealth like normal without blowing a cooldown, and DoT KILLLLLLLL rogues cause they will bring you out of stealth.
i think that running back and fourth and jumping around is very effective. once i was questing with this other rogue (i am a rogue, too) and he requested a duel. i accepted and killed him with only a few good shots. he was like "omg i couldnt even hit you, you moved around way too much" and right there and then i realized...
ever since doing that in PvP i am already at an advantage. i have a LOT of experience in the lvl 19 BG's, and a little in the 29's, but all i know is that the 19 BG are FULLLLL of rogue twinks, and they give decent players like me a bad name. i didn't roll a rogue cause it's fun to twink them, i rolled them because i like being in the front doing damage and using tactics to win.
most rogues go in BG and spam SS.
usually there is not a lot you can do other than that. however, i play on PvP server, and a lot of times when i'm in contested areas (like questing in hillsbrad) i use more abilities, like cheap shot and vanish. whereas in BG you just spam SS because you don't have time to do anything else, you end up getting killed.
rogues are a LOT more useful 1v1 (hence the rogue section saying highest single-target damage), but when you get more than like 2 people on you, it's a die situation cause all you are wearing is leather.
i like instances cause they for the most part are group paced, and you can control the pace usually. i've seen warriors that charge into a group with their little charge/stun thing, and that just drives me nuts. me being a rogue can pull better than a LOT of people i've seen in instances. i sometimes wish i could be in groups with smart people, cause then things would be so much smoother. it's all how smart the person is, really.
but yeah, for PvP, run around if you can (sorry priests and stuff who use wands for majority of damage and need to stand still for heals)
btw: never let a rogue get in range. if you have instant spells, cast them on a rogue the second you can, with them in combat you can't stealth like normal without blowing a cooldown, and DoT KILLLLLLLL rogues cause they will bring you out of stealth.
Step one: always use the mouse to move in PvP.
Step two: bind all necessary abilities to keys that are accessible to your left hand. My primary abilities are set to 1-5 and Shift+1-6.
Step three: After your initial opener and SS/BS (after you run out of energy, and before you use a finisher), run around the enemy. Always try to be at their back, so it's easier to backstab them and it's harder for them to hit you (also attacks cannot be parried or blocked from the back).
As for strategies, Fetching, I have some rules but I live by but the rest is improv.
Step two: bind all necessary abilities to keys that are accessible to your left hand. My primary abilities are set to 1-5 and Shift+1-6.
Step three: After your initial opener and SS/BS (after you run out of energy, and before you use a finisher), run around the enemy. Always try to be at their back, so it's easier to backstab them and it's harder for them to hit you (also attacks cannot be parried or blocked from the back).
As for strategies, Fetching, I have some rules but I live by but the rest is improv.
I would have to agree that movement is key to great pvp. I learned it the hard way from first having people who would do that to me, while I tried to sling arrows around. Getting owned quite frequently.
I was outside of IF the other day and a paladin asked me for a duel. I freezing trapped him, aimed shot, almost had him dead. Then he full healed and started running after me. I charged directly at him, wing clipped, then kited him to his death.
"WTF was that??? You moved around too much!"
I was laughing quite loud for a while until I said "so?"
him"You kited me"
me:"uhh.... ya? thats what hunters do. Any good hunter can do that. idiot."
Movement is an incredible strat. I see so many PVPers standing still swinging. I run at them and immediatly Im behind and either off their field of vision, or they don't know what happened. Most skills require the target to be in front of you, so I use that to my full advantage as much as possible.
I was outside of IF the other day and a paladin asked me for a duel. I freezing trapped him, aimed shot, almost had him dead. Then he full healed and started running after me. I charged directly at him, wing clipped, then kited him to his death.
"WTF was that??? You moved around too much!"
I was laughing quite loud for a while until I said "so?"
him"You kited me"
me:"uhh.... ya? thats what hunters do. Any good hunter can do that. idiot."
Movement is an incredible strat. I see so many PVPers standing still swinging. I run at them and immediatly Im behind and either off their field of vision, or they don't know what happened. Most skills require the target to be in front of you, so I use that to my full advantage as much as possible.
I bunny-hop like a crazy man in PvP, and it works wonders. It's one of the advantages that you have as a truly mobile class - use it.
Jumping around behind people while they're trying to cast a spell (or use melee attacks on you) works very nicely. Some general tips;
1) Get a hotkey setup that works for you. I've rebound my movement keys to ESDF and bound almost all of my buttons to 2-3-4-T-G-B-V-C-X-Z-A-Q (around the movement keys, basicially), with the ones I like to have very handy (Overpower and Mortal Strike/Bloodthirst) to W and R respectively.
2) Hold down the right-click button and use your mouse to turn. Use the WASD (ESDF) to move forward/backward and strafe. Strafe _a lot_, since strafe-turning can be hard for people to track quickly and lets you keep your orientation towards the enemy while they stand there like a moron trying to use their arrow keys to turn.
3) Jump. This is one that not everyone agrees with but I bunnyhop constantly in PvP. It doesn't have a huge effective purpose but it does serve to confuse people (a minor note - if you're snared while in mid-jump it won't begin to slow you until you land, but this is a fairly minor advantage). However, the ability to jump THROUGH someone and spin in mid-air is very handy - because once you jump until you land your orientation/speed are set (unless stunned or rooted), you can make turns in mid-air and land facing a completely different direction while still having travelled in your original path.
Jumping around behind people while they're trying to cast a spell (or use melee attacks on you) works very nicely. Some general tips;
1) Get a hotkey setup that works for you. I've rebound my movement keys to ESDF and bound almost all of my buttons to 2-3-4-T-G-B-V-C-X-Z-A-Q (around the movement keys, basicially), with the ones I like to have very handy (Overpower and Mortal Strike/Bloodthirst) to W and R respectively.
2) Hold down the right-click button and use your mouse to turn. Use the WASD (ESDF) to move forward/backward and strafe. Strafe _a lot_, since strafe-turning can be hard for people to track quickly and lets you keep your orientation towards the enemy while they stand there like a moron trying to use their arrow keys to turn.
3) Jump. This is one that not everyone agrees with but I bunnyhop constantly in PvP. It doesn't have a huge effective purpose but it does serve to confuse people (a minor note - if you're snared while in mid-jump it won't begin to slow you until you land, but this is a fairly minor advantage). However, the ability to jump THROUGH someone and spin in mid-air is very handy - because once you jump until you land your orientation/speed are set (unless stunned or rooted), you can make turns in mid-air and land facing a completely different direction while still having travelled in your original path.
1. As many people have stated -- move to stay behind your target.
2. One of your most valuable tricks as a rogue is the ability to gouge an opponent and re-enter stealth. If you don't attack for five seconds, you leave combat and get a free restealth. You can even do this against non-casters when they're not gouged by exploiting the dead zone between charge/intercept/shoot and melee. This is way easier to do if you've got crippling poison on them. Master this and killing warriors becomes *much* easier -- almost a guarantee.
3. As far as openers go, I'd do cheapshot against most classes. I ambush players at low health and mages. This decision will be affected by your talent build.
4. I prefer to use a sword in one hand and a dagger in the other. The sword is normally in my main hand, but I have a hotkey macro to switch to the dagger for the ambush/backstab:
/script PickupInventoryItem(16); PickupInventoryItem(17);
If you hit it again, it switches them back.
5. Against other rogues -- typically between two rogues, who ever gets the jump on the other will win. If they other guy starts his lockdown on you first, your only hope is to spam vanish and hope for a tiny gap in his stunlock. If you get a vanish off, cheapshot his a** right back. Now the tables are turned.
Other various tips:
Don't forget that you can disarm hunter traps.
When enemies are about to engage your team, get in there and sap one.
If you attack a person who's sitting or lying down, it's an autocrit -- make the most of it.
Edited, Jan 4th 2007 1:11pm by Unam
2. One of your most valuable tricks as a rogue is the ability to gouge an opponent and re-enter stealth. If you don't attack for five seconds, you leave combat and get a free restealth. You can even do this against non-casters when they're not gouged by exploiting the dead zone between charge/intercept/shoot and melee. This is way easier to do if you've got crippling poison on them. Master this and killing warriors becomes *much* easier -- almost a guarantee.
3. As far as openers go, I'd do cheapshot against most classes. I ambush players at low health and mages. This decision will be affected by your talent build.
4. I prefer to use a sword in one hand and a dagger in the other. The sword is normally in my main hand, but I have a hotkey macro to switch to the dagger for the ambush/backstab:
/script PickupInventoryItem(16); PickupInventoryItem(17);
If you hit it again, it switches them back.
5. Against other rogues -- typically between two rogues, who ever gets the jump on the other will win. If they other guy starts his lockdown on you first, your only hope is to spam vanish and hope for a tiny gap in his stunlock. If you get a vanish off, cheapshot his a** right back. Now the tables are turned.
Other various tips:
Don't forget that you can disarm hunter traps.
When enemies are about to engage your team, get in there and sap one.
If you attack a person who's sitting or lying down, it's an autocrit -- make the most of it.
Edited, Jan 4th 2007 1:11pm by Unam
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