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For the love of Azeroth - NERF WARLOCKSFollow

#77 Dec 28 2006 at 4:59 PM Rating: Good
Would like to add something.

Everyone knows it is true that there is a lot of chatter about how overpowered Warlocks are and that they need a nerf. Regardless of whether they do or not, a lot of people are saying it. That is a fact.

WoW's PVP is considered something like the Rock - Paper - Scissors game. Warlocks are often jokingly refered to as fitting in that scheme as WMDs or Napalm or whatever sounds the most overpowered at the time. Even Shmii's signature is a play on this. (It is from World of Roguecraftâ„¢ 2)

This part is arguable but many people will agree that Warlock is the scissors to Warrior, Rogue and Mage. That does not mean these classes cannot defeat a Warlock. It means that it is generally believed for Warlock to have an innate advantage versus these classes because of their nature.

A census for all PVP realms says that:
http://www.warcraftrealms.com/census.php?serverid=-1&factionid=-1&minlevel=60&maxlevel=60&servertypeid=2
Warrior, Mage and Rogue are the three most-played classes.
#78 Dec 28 2006 at 5:00 PM Rating: Decent
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1,233 posts
Adeontm wrote:
You don't even have the decency to see that there are strengths and weaknesses to everyone. Notice everyone supports their favorite class or class that they play. The best way to look at something is from someone who actually plays a class because you learn how it works more. If I hadn't even said I was a warlock you may of said more. Ignorancy at its best.


Well if I was just going to support the class I play for I might as well throw in that a Warrior can only beat a Lock if he's lucky, with Fury Spec, and happens to be in berserker stance at the time.

But instead I choose not to talk about warriors. Since the patch seemed to shrink our blimp-sized heads down to the size of shrunken goomba heads from the Super Mario Bros. Home video.
#79 Dec 28 2006 at 5:04 PM Rating: Decent
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233 posts
Quote:
But instead I choose not to talk about wariors. Since the patch seemed to shrink our blimp-sized heads down to the size of shrunken goomba heads from the Super Mario Bros.


Its'a Mario time! ^^

*Ark jumps on the head of the warrior*
*Warrior is defeated*
#80 Dec 28 2006 at 5:19 PM Rating: Decent
Devildude wrote:
Blessing of Protection prevents us from attacking you at ALL, and makes us immune to MELEE damage. It is TOTALLY and UTTERLY useless against a lock or a mage.

Shmii does not play a Paladin but this sounds nice to nullify pet damage. Many people have said that Warlock pets do good damage and it seems that a lot of Warlocks are Demonology build right now, sacrificing other strengths to buff survivability and pet strength.

Devildude wrote:
Secondly, even other WARLOCKS are saying that locks are overpowered. Im sorry, but when that kind of truth comes out of the mouths of the class, agreeing that their class needs to be nerfed, then it is SO true.

You would believe one Warlock that says it's this way over one thousand Warlocks that say it's another way? Smiley: frown

Devildude wrote:
How about when theyre running from fear? -.-

They v. often run out of range. Also often other people will come, it takes v. long to cast Soulfire (6 seconds no talents) so it is not very efficient in group PVP.


Devildude wrote:
No, of course not, however, when opened with death coil instead, which any smart warlock would do, it stacks, whoopeedoo.

It is on a two minute cooldown. Typically fights will occur more frequently than once every 2 minutes. Would you open every fight with "bubble"?
Devildude wrote:
Thats just it though, seduction forces us to bubble, meaning that we no longer have any surprise attacks.

It would not appear so.

#81 Dec 28 2006 at 6:31 PM Rating: Decent
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4,717 posts
I can not truly call a warlock overpowered, unless they have felhunter, Felhunter > Paladins, however Felgaurds vs Plate = Meh, he is annoying but I'll live.

A priest is what gets me, a healing class with f[i][/i]ucking strongest DoT ever. SW:P + random priests debuffs + shadowform + mind flay (slowed movment that BoF doesn't stop) + manaburn (I don't know its exact name I see it casted and I lose mana) + mind blast = Dead paladin, when I try to get the heal off I get silenced. bubble is likely on cooldown.


I feel sorry for warriors, its not fair that a paladin in lawbringer pvp blues + epics should be able to easily solo fully epicced out warriors. Its not even skill, warriors need a buff and fast.
#82 Dec 28 2006 at 6:47 PM Rating: Good
Citizen's Arrest!
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29,527 posts
Jordster wrote:
Dead God of Azeroth,


I lol'd.

I have to agree though. I don't have too much experience with locks at 60, but I do have my lock and I do find myself rather overpowered at 40-49. And yeah I'm skill-link specced.

I'd comment on my experiences vs. locks at 60, but my main is a mage and if there was ever a class that warlocks are designed to kill, it's us mages. Getting solo'ed by one DoT and a pet still isn't nice though. I really don't think a non-BW pet should be able to do that. But meh, I'll live.

And holy crap there are a lot of ratedowns in this damn thread. Even Shogen's page claim/comment on speed of this discussion. Ya'll need to calm the hell down.
#83 Dec 28 2006 at 6:54 PM Rating: Good
It is hilarious to hear people calling for dots to end on the death of the warlock, if this went in you would have to do it across the board. I would love to see people living the results of these sour grapes when raids wipe because the priest who buffed the MT died and his buffs died with him.

Edited, Dec 28th 2006 6:53pm by Molarean
#84 Dec 28 2006 at 6:56 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
It is hilarious to hear people calling for dots to end on the of the wartlock, if this went in you would have to do it across the board. I would love to see people living the results of these sour grapes when raids wipe because the priest who buffed the MT died and his buffs died with him.


Prior to this patch this happened with all Warlock DoT's except for Siphon Life, which for whatever reason didn't go away.
#85 Dec 28 2006 at 6:57 PM Rating: Default
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11,852 posts
Prince justdistaint wrote:


A priest is what gets me, a healing class with f[i][/i]ucking strongest DoT ever. SW:P + random priests debuffs + shadowform + mind flay (slowed movment that BoF doesn't stop) + manaburn (I don't know its exact name I see it casted and I lose mana) + mind blast = Dead paladin, when I try to get the heal off I get silenced. bubble is likely on cooldown.



A Shadow Priest is as much a healing class as a Feral Druid IMO.
#86 Dec 28 2006 at 6:59 PM Rating: Default
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11,852 posts
Molarean wrote:
It is hilarious to hear people calling for dots to end on the of the wartlock, if this went in you would have to do it across the board. I would love to see people living the results of these sour grapes when raids wipe because the priest who buffed the MT died and his buffs died with him.


http://wow.allakhazam.com/profile.html?1624004

Clearly, you dont PvP. (feel free to link a character who isn't neutral w/ 2/3 BGs.

I'm not talking about raids. I'm clearly talking about PvP. It's a totally different game.
#87 Dec 28 2006 at 7:03 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:

Hi RPzip. Sometimes Shmii finds that when trying to tab through a crowd in rapid succession every other keypress will not do anything. A global cooldown on tabbing as it were. Sometimes people are out of range of tab. Many times, a pet will be targeted. And yes, have tried to click on specific players in crowds of more than 10 people. ^^ It is quite a challenge sometimes. icon


Please stop talking in the third perosn. -_-

There is no global cooldown on tab. However, there is a maximum range of 30 yards. I know this because I can tab very slightly outside the range of my Warrior's charge (25y) but not very much further. (Also, I've tested it for use in macros, but that's another story). If you're in range of multiple targets you can spam tab to cycle through them as fast as you want.

Quote:
*scratches chin and thinks about remebering what server his ols warlock was on... mabey just mabey...*


It drops off Razorgore (first boss in BWL). It doubles Warlock pet damage and armor for 30 seconds with a five minute cooldown.

EDIT:
PS: Jord, I'm largely with you on this one but if you're going to insult people, you should at least be, y'know... accurate. Detect Invisibility of any variety does not increase Stealth detection.

Edited, Dec 28th 2006 10:02pm by RPZip
#88 Dec 28 2006 at 7:04 PM Rating: Good
Jordster wrote:
Clearly, you dont PvP. (feel free to link a character who isn't neutral w/ 2/3 BGs.

I'm not talking about raids. I'm clearly talking about PvP. It's a totally different game.


What you want to do is put a rule in place that magical effects stop with death only on one class so you can penalize them. If WoW goes with this they need to do it to every class and I would love to see it.
#89 Dec 28 2006 at 7:05 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:

What you want to do is put a rule in place that magical effects stop with death only on one class so you can penalize them. If WoW goes with this they need to do it to every class and I would love to see it.


Shaman?

I don't think that there's anything wrong with having all any and all magical debuffs wear off after the caster's death. This can be... inconvenient for raiding but it does make some sense. *shrug*
#90 Dec 28 2006 at 7:08 PM Rating: Good
RPZip wrote:
Shaman?

I don't think that there's anything wrong with having all any and all magical debuffs wear off after the caster's death. This can be... inconvenient for raiding but it does make some sense. *shrug*


At least someone here is reasonable and can discuss things without foaming at the mouth.
#91 Dec 28 2006 at 7:17 PM Rating: Good
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717 posts
I would like to state for the record, Paranoia is nothing special. In tests, paranoia bought the warlock .7 seconds extra reaction time.

Wonder why you don't see many felhunters out in BG's? That's why.

I have yet to see one in BG's. Hell, I rarely seem them period.

Edited, Dec 28th 2006 11:06pm by Shamibell
#92 Dec 28 2006 at 7:56 PM Rating: Decent
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4,297 posts
Jordster wrote:
Oh - and if you strongly agree with what I'm saying, please rate my OP up


lol

classy.
#93 Dec 28 2006 at 8:19 PM Rating: Good
RPZip wrote:
Prior to this patch this happened with all Warlock DoT's except for Siphon Life, which for whatever reason didn't go away.


Before this patch warlocks didn't have a DoT that required 41 points in affliction.
#94 Dec 28 2006 at 8:26 PM Rating: Decent
Ya Warlocks are a tissue-paper wearing class. But, they have ways to counter that, they can get absurd amounts of health (currently I have seen one with 7112 health). So they can still take a hit with their crappy armor, because of the way Bliz set up they're raiding sets and PvP sets. I tihnk to start all of the casters' negative effects die with the caster, that would at least take some frustration out of fighting Warlocks.
#95 Dec 28 2006 at 8:28 PM Rating: Good
I'm pretty sure if Blizzard deals with this I know how they are going to do it, they will simply increase the damage per tic on DoTs and decrease the duration.
#96 Dec 28 2006 at 8:36 PM Rating: Decent
RPzip wrote:
There is no global cooldown on tab. However, there is a maximum range of 30 yards. I know this because I can tab very slightly outside the range of my Warrior's charge (25y) but not very much further. (Also, I've tested it for use in macros, but that's another story). If you're in range of multiple targets you can spam tab to cycle through them as fast as you want.

Ofcourse there isn't a global cooldown on tab. Was just figure of speech, probably just the effect of range limit. For whatever reason though, tabbing through enemies in WoW feels less than optimal.












#97 Dec 28 2006 at 8:59 PM Rating: Good
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1,260 posts
I don't fight warlocks without someone else helping me, it's a rule of mine. Grass is green, sky is blue and warlocks kill feral druids. Even with help, I'll usually die but at least the warlock will actually have a chance of dying too~

I don't complain though, since the patch feral has gotten seriously buffed. I will win against any other class more often then not, but I will still lose to a warlock every time. And that isn't even an exageration, I've never won against a warlock one on one O.o; (Well, if I out leveled them by alot, but it's sad if you can only beat a class if they are 8 levels below you)

Fear hurts alot... I can trinket out of one, but all it takes for a second to land for it to be GG. I can't hope to out heal the DoTs. I can't stun lock to prevent fears being cast. I have no tricks up my sleeve that can overcome being fear/dot'd.

So while I will stay and fight any other class, I will always run from a warlock. Hope that travel form will put enough distance between us so I have the opportunity to heal myself before the dots kill me.

With TBC, I'll have a partial ability to stunlock (highly gear dependant) and I'll have a small resistance to fear. So with alot of luck and skill, I'm hoping to manage a 30% win rate at 70. We'll see if it works out like that though, maybe I'm a little too optimistic ^^;
#98 Dec 28 2006 at 9:15 PM Rating: Decent
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3,478 posts
http://www.ecm.smamhosting.com/felguard.jpg
#99 Dec 28 2006 at 9:17 PM Rating: Decent
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3,478 posts
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/970/churchsignuk2.jpg



edit: sorry for not adding any actual content to my posts. I was trying to coddle my son to sleep in my arms and only had the use of one hand to copy/paste these images here.

Edited, Dec 29th 2006 12:21am by Webjunky
#100 Dec 28 2006 at 9:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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6,678 posts
Chaotika wrote:
I dueled a Hunter 2 days ago, his gear was about equal to mine. I started the fight with CoE, seduce. He blew his silence show on my right before I seduced him. He did not use a pet. I threw a 2.6k (non-crit) Soul Fire at him, costing me one shard. He pulled out his bow and critted me with Auto-Shot twice, each doing 2k damage. I lost the duel before I could get Immolate+Conflag off.


I call bull. With a 3.4 delay ranged weapon (slowest in existence) and using a marks spec, my autoshots aren't considerably above 1k. There's no way someone can get 2k autoshot crits under normal circumstances. Or Arcane Shot. Or Multi Shot. Or anything else other than Aimed, which doesn't really get used any more.


However, for the person that said they are tired of being called a noob FotM just for being who you've always been, the Night Elf hunter with the cat pet approves of this message.
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#101 Dec 28 2006 at 9:46 PM Rating: Decent
Yay to approval. ^^
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