Damn it, I just actually read through the 7 pages of this thread...
Anyway, yes, Paladins and Hunters are overpowered. Paladin bubble and healing always were a real pain in the *** and will be up to the very point they remove it completely, nothing more to say here.
Hunters are also overpowered, and I'm not going to deny it, even being one. It's hard for me to judge damage output overall because I've been playing with some of the best available gear for some 18 months and by all right I Should be doing insane damage. What made us very strong in AV before was range and ability to meneuver. Run in, multi, run out. It's just very powerful, and there's little you can do against it while the front line holds. In closer combat we were not so powerful at all. Casters could shoot back, CC, kill with equal chance, depended on skill, observation and reaction a lot. Against melee classes it was quite fine for a while as well, as long as we didn't use more than 1 trap. The way traps work now and the 12 second limit would make it very interesting indeed, and not shifted in the direction of either class. I'm not speaking about BM tree, I don't like pets.
What came with the patch is that MM tree got boosted and SV tree got next to useless. Our effectiveness against ranged people, or rogues foolish enough to stand in the open and daydream, greatly increased and our melee capability dropped. What needs to be done is retaining our Raid DPS, slightly reducing the ammount of stuff we can do from range and boosting our melee survivability. Creating a viable way to get counterattack and deterrance would really help.
One way would be to bring back aimed shots as a viable raid DPS source. For that it would need to go back to the old ay when it didn't stop autoshot. Multishot can be nerfed slightly, perhaps decreasing the speed standard from 2.8 to something lower, but still reasonable or reworking the talents. Improved barrage gives 15% more chance to crit with mutli. It is outright devastating! Without it - some of the best-geared hunters have 25-30% chance to crit, maybe 32 as the pretty much upper limit. With it - you get the picture.
Lastly - one additional edge against casters is how many buttons we can press in a short time frame while they get to us. To counter that - Arcane Shot and Silencing could share CD in a way. Using one would trigger a 6 second CD on the other. Arcane shot damage itself should be left reasonable to be viable against classes with high armor and PvE events where we need instant damage output like Kel'Thuzad phase 1 skeletons.
And I bloody trailed off...
Warlocks. First, I would like to say that in all my gaming time I've only seen ONE raiding encounter where warlocks were undesireable and specifically weeded out of final lists. Patchwerk. Warlock and Hunter DPS was miserable there, mostly because rogues were just better and mages had their ignites bugged to stack to insanity. If anyone, it's the hunters who really took the fall in Naxx. Pretty much everything save for the gluth tranqing could be done better by someone else and hunters were the first to leave when yet another boss demanded a specific setup.
Saying warlocks were useless in raids is just just wrong and stupid. If anything, as a less popular class (same as druids), an average lock had (and has) a better chance of getting into a good PvE guild and get better gear.
I applaud RpZip for trying to bring some constructive criticism into the thread.
I'm afraid I can't input as much on the side of detailed class specifics and numbers, but overall - there are some plain things that have to be changed in the nearest future.
"RpZip" wrote:
1) Remove damaging effects on death (this would not include pure debuffs, such as Sunder Armor from Warriors or Curse of Elements/Shadows from Warlocks, or any buff effects) for ALL classes.
2) Reduce the range on Death Coil to 10-15 yard range. It was originally intended to be a "get this melee off me" move, not a thirty yard spell interrupt as well. Putting it at fifteen yards gives it the same range as a Hunter's Scatter Shot.
3) Normalize the DoT bonus damage to a lower value, since the current scaling is redicioulous post-patch. I'm not asking for a huge nerf here - but right now the longer DoT's are recieving such a higher proportion of the damage bonus that it's putting out crazy DPS.
On first point there's not much to add, but I'll stress out how important it is to do it to all classes. It should include the pesky hunter dots, ignites from mages and bleed effects from warriors.
Second point it as valid. They might as well do it for Scatter Shot for hunters. It's meant to be short range.
I will not comment on third point because playing in T3 doesn't give me a clear picture of how much damage someone does.
Warlock pets are Very powerful because of their special abilities and can't even be compared to non BM spec hunters so they need a very careful review.
Lastly, I was shocked to find out that warlock dots are not unique. That's what "only one sting can be active at a time" written on all my tooltips does to me. And the damage done screenshots posted previously kind of prove the devastating effect. This can only really be mended with placing limits on the ammount of dotted targets or severely reducing their damage output.
of another page of another thread that probably shouldn't have gone on this long.