For the love of Azeroth - NERF WARLOCKSFollow

Anybody who says polymorph is better then fear in pvp is out of their mind. Polymorph breaks on damage, Fear doesn't (often enough). Polymorph heals the target, Fear doesn't. Polymorphed target don't wander very far... while it's possible for a feared victim to run out of heal range.

I have seen warlock juggle Fear and Seduce to lock up two targets. They have just as much crowd control as other class, in fact they actually have more.

Warlocks are also one of the few class that can exponantially boost their damage the more opponent there is. Instead of putting 3 debuff on one guy, they put 3 debuff on 4 guys. All it takes is tabbing and pressing buttons.

And guess what? Even if you assist train them, the debuff will remain on the targets, meaning that the Warlock is the only class (aside maybe from priest with that angel move) that still participate in a group's dps even after his demise.

And of course, let's not forget the possibility of soul stoning an ally or giving healthstone all around. Yes, it demands and hefty number of soulstone, but it is in fact possible to do.

None of what I said here make Warlocks overpowered per say. Those are merely fact that a lot of people seem to be forgetting. I'm incredibly puzzled as to where the 'They rock in 1v1 but suck in group pvp' concept comes from and how anybody can say it while keeping a straight face.

I thought making baby gnomes cry was a good thing.



QFGDMFT!

I wasn't sayng that Polymorph was better than Fear, just that it was part of the mage package which is better suited to group play.

I do agree that Warlocks aren't overly balanced at the moment and do need a fix to tone down some things and increase some cooldowns, but that is all.

Some of the stories in this thread have to be put in context. Someone spoke of one lock that held a tower on his own against 2 attackers.

Well, why was that Lock alone? I assume it is because his group knew he was a very skilled player or he knew it enough to go on defense on his own. A very skilled Paladin can take out two casters in a good situation.

I don't think they need a nerf, because none of their spells directly mutilate a target. A Hunter's Aimed Shot was nerfed because it was one-shotting casters with too much frequency.

A Warlock doesn't have those tools and needs time to work.




I vote that spells should scale with opponent type. This way, they are balanced in PvP but still pack a punch in PvE.

Im not sure if anyone has said this or not.. mainly because i wont read 5 pages of ridiculous bickering.. but i sometimes wonder if the huge "Nerf Locks" thing comes from an inability to understand mechanics of a game, said games classes as well as ability/spell effects. This same problem has occured on every single MMO out there (mostly talking about the Necromancer class of EQ) and sure, if you do not know how to conteract the class, more likely than not, it will kill you. However! the same can be said about any class out there. As for my bane.. i hate rogues. I never pay close enough attention to what is behind me and usually get trounced for it. Now, i understand why i die, so sometimes i do pay attention and then do not get caught off gaurd. *shrug*

I suppose simply it needs to be said that people need to stop yelling for nerfs from a company that has IMMENSE experience in the gaming industry and let things fall as they may.. and maybe, get a little bit better understanding of exatally what you are really playing. Its tactical. always has been always will be. Planning is part of this game.

Let's face it, a Warlock, in and of itself, is no more overpowered than a Hunter. It all comes down to player skill.

The reason so many people run across more skilled warlocks is because for a VERY long time, it was a very gimp class to play. Group invites were low, damage was mediocre, and leveling wasn't all that hot either. The only people who played warlocks were the ones who truely cared enough.

The reason so few people run across skilled hunters is because the class is so phenominally easy. Leveling has always been easy to do. This caused a lot of the lazy people to be the level 60's, who caused a bad stigma for the class and got a lot of the truely skilled players to quit that class.





If the average hunter player was as skilled as the average warlock you come across in BG's, people would be screaming nerf hunters, not nerf warlocks.

If all a Warlock is doing is DoTing, then he/she is a bad Warlock.

The Warlock class is more-or-less the most difficult class in the game to play well, as it is a constant juggling act of damage, mana, health and aggro.

Level 60 Warlocks who don't grind straight there usually learn their class intricately.

i have to agree with mchao on the ******** remark. i find my druid and my warrior both require considerably more input than my warlock. granted, my warlock is not yet 60, but i could never once while leveling my war and druid waltz into a pack of four mobs and come out smelling like roses.

no, warlocks are a very easy class to play. maybe not easy to master, but in order to be passingly effective with a warlock one does not need incredible playing skill. juggling forms and stances takes a lot more concentration and understanding of class strengths/weaknesses than anything a warlock can do.

Question is: Will abilities and trinkets specifically only removing "Fear" now also affect Seduce? (Was Seduce really changed to a Fear effect, leaving charm = mind control)
The Rogue trinket does remove Seduce but it has both Fear and Charm on there.



Here is what Shmii believes to be problem:

Casting DoTs + tabbing does not require much skill. This has never been different.
But, a bad Warlock would typically die really fast. A good Warlock, however, can crank up survivability surprisingly well. Someone that would use all the tricks available to this class would be a force to be reckoned with, because they are v. versatile.

Now in patch "Before the Storm" the Demonology tree received their final talent in the form of a new demon. A really good one. This made Demonology a lot more popular. It is very tempting to go with a new demon not available to any other talent spec. The other talents are nice, but Felguard is damn nice, and it's a new demon! Couple that with many guilds stopping their PVE raiding activities to engage in mass PVP for easily obtainable rank 14 gear. Demonology isn't really a raiding spec, but that matters little all of a sudden. So suddenly all those 'bad' Warlocks are running around with 41 points into Warlock's survivability tree that still offers very viable DoT + tab damage. That has an impact. The fact that that gear is now so easily obtainable also doesn't help. Said players could now have 6,000 health instead of 4,000.

Here's an example:
http://users.telenet.be/Shmii/Demodemo2.JPG
That's in blues and greens, just AV epics. Gems like "Bad Mojo Mask" from Zul' Farrak and the lvl 52 quested robe. Abyssal feet and hands.

What's more, many of those deaths should not have happened. Only reason for 9 deaths is "Malf" the Druid (seen on screenshot somewhere in middle), had somehow taken our first encounter resulting in his death serious, and had made it his life goal to find and try to kill Shmii. (No joke, he was spamming /lol and /chicken. And he had accomplices.

no shmii, anti-fear abilities are still only anti-fear. some trinkets (like the druid trinket) remove charm in addition to fear, and this charm removal works on seduction as well as priest mind control and gnomish MC cap.

seduction and fear share the same diminishing return timer, but are considered separate entities in terms of debuff status (one being a fear, the other being a charm).

Toning down the class = Nerf.

It's just a more polite way to say the exact same thing. Let's not argue semantics.

Nobody wants Warlocks to be 'free HK'. Aside from a few over excited posters in the 'Warlock are fine' camp, nobody has even said anything close to that.

There's a difference between a balanced class and a class that has people saying 'They're fine, just take them on 2 vs 1' (very valid argument, that ).



From a pvp point of view, they have been fine since the Death Coil patch. That's a long time ago - the pdf that shows how to kill Warlocks as if they were Raid Bosses date from several months already... Every patch since then has made them stronger and Before the Storm has made thing on the near comical level.

But they have been 'fine too overpowered' for a lot longer then they have been gimped.

No.

But it's not an opinion that cloak of shadows is a warlock wrecker

And if we're going by that way of thinking, that the possibility that I'm making it up makes it hold no water, then all statements made on this entire thread are null and void. Anyone here could possibly be making up everything he says.

If you wanna be on the winning team so badly and warlock always wins, isn't the answer obvious?