to the Alliance: DEFENSE *is* important in WSGFollow

Okay, now let me explain something ...

FLAG ROOM IS A TERRIBLE PLACE TO HAVE MORE THAN 1 PERSON ON DEFENSE.

Remember that - CAPS are for emphasis.

Why?

(1) A skilled Druid or Mage (or even prep Rogue or Paladin) can come right in and take a flag from 3-4 defenders.

(2) Whichever team owns the midfield owns the game.

(3) Once an enemy is clear from the flag room, they are AHEAD of you - that is not where you want them to be

A proper defense resides between the exit of your tunnel and the ramp. They hold the midfield, letting as few pass as possible and stopping the flag runner on the way back. One on FR defense is good to stop single would-be flag ninjas.

In all honesty, people who scream "WHY IS THERE NO DEFENSE!!!!" at the beginning of WSG games are reminiscent of the 10-19 bracket and the real newbies and inexperienced players that often play there.

Edited, Dec 27th 2006 6:22pm by Jordster

I agree 100%. But just in case people still want to cram 5 people in the Flag room ... Make sure you have a paladin in there. There is at now time in WSG where a opposing druid shouldn't have Judgement of Justice on them (same goes for shaman if they are the flag runners). Judgement of Justice now limits all movement to a maximum of normal run speed. This includes mounted speeds and travel form!

To reiterate, don't play D in the FR. But since you'll (the royal 'you'll') refuse to listen to that advice, make sure you get JoJ up at all times on opposing FC's.

Edited, Dec 27th 2006 4:32pm by baelnic

Oh I can agree with you jordster - but let me clarify that I am referring to playing PUG vs. PUG. I realize that given certain strategies, camping out in the FR might be a bad idea, HOWEVER, I've played games that have showed me that it can and does work. You come from organized pre-made groups. I come from PUG vs. PUG. I'm just showcasing my own experiences that have proven to work FOR ME.

I used to always defend from outside our tunnel with my hunter. On my tracker I can see all the way to the FR if I stand right outside. I also heavily agree with you that having some sort of control over mid-field is essential, but let me tell you my strat that has won me quite a few PUG games.

Please keep in mind I realize that you and you're group could destroy this strategy and I am in no way saying that it is superior. We are from different sides of the fence here and I am sharing my experiences.


edit: If your group actually works together, then yea, you can maintain a great defense from the field - but this is PUGs. It's VERY, VERY difficult to get people to work together.

I only want to share the strategy I have used in successful WSG matches. Each game the carrier did NOT make it out of the tunnel or too far off from the ramp.

Frost trap a little bit in front of the flag (not on top, but in front).
Set cat to stay and prowled in middle of room
Rogues are stealthed
I have aspect of the beast on and humanoid tracking. I stand in side room (with the one way view down the tunnel) throwing flares down and just wait.

Someone drops in, grabs the flag, they are on my frost trap. I sic my pet on him, prepare to lay another frost trap ahead of the EFC. If the EFC makes it to the middle of the room, I hit intimidation. During all this I am using arcane shot and serpent sting and conc shot. Between all my slowing and burst damage and the help of 1 or 2 rogues, the EFC doesn't have a chance - and this has been against some great druid flag runners too.

I should also mention that I am talking about 30-39 bracket.

Hey, like I said jord, you could probably tear this strat apart with your group, but I'm sick of constantly losing against the horde in a PUG and ever since I started doing this and getting a few to help me, my winning games have gone up dramatically. So this is why I am sharing my experience. I will no longer accept the fact that my pug likes to hang out in mid field and farm HKs. I used to try to defend from there, but there is always a horde or two that sneaks by and the alliance just let them cruise right by them in mid-field, all the while I'm calling out where the EFC is and pinging the mini-map (from my tracker), conc shotting the EFC doing everything I can to stop him... but he get's right by.

IMHO I think by trying to rally some help in the FR, people are very clear about their role and aren't just there to rack up HKs. This is what has worked for me before I left the bracket and I really enjoyed playing the defensive role from inside the FR.




Haha, I'd like to point out that I do not portray myself as an immature kiddie that screams for help. When I said I have a macro that I spam... I don't really SPAM it, by the true definition of that spam means.

on a side note: I really love hunters in CTF. It seems like they are made for it. I used to think druids were broken (as in, game breaking) runners, but on my hunter I can keep right up with them with my pet. I have a lot of fun, that's all I can say.

Edited, Dec 27th 2006 7:11pm by Webjunky



Edited, Dec 27th 2006 7:22pm by Webjunky

The ONLY time I've been on the winning side of the flag battle as Alliance was when the Horde had home-base sitters. That's easy to beat if you have 2 rogues that work together- 1 grabs the flag and runs for the main entrance and into certain death, but in doing so draws the FR sitters out of the room while the second rogue waits for the flag to be returned. Once the flag is returned, the second rogue grabs it and splits out the side tunnel.

Of course, this is also dependent on PROTECTING the Flag bearer- a rogue does not have the defensive capabilities to take massive hits, nor do they often have the ability to counteract freeze and slow spells put on them!! Unfortunately, the Horde always seems better at sticking together and eliminating the often solo Alliance players. Yes, I said it, OFTEN SOLO.

And therein lies the main problem- how can you win with all players on one side not helping each other out, but the other side is a team? Too often I see a wave of 5+ Horde (minions, pets, etc) coming straight down the pipe and I see but 1 or 2 straggling Alliance to meet them..... the graveyard is often full of Alliance waiting to rez.

I've essentially given up trying to CTF with my rogue- I know I'll be lucky to get halfway home before getting gang-Horded with absolutely no support. So, I just stealth hide near home base and wait for the solo Horde to try to CTF so I can backstab him to pieces.

The midfield is the key. Whoever breaks the oppponent first wins the game. Usually this happens on the midfield.

Playing D in the flagroom is usually a good ploy but it can't be the last line of defense. More often than not, mages, druids even priests can grab the flag from hunters/rogues. Just cc the defender.

That leaves the midfield. Control it and no matter how many flag carriers try to run past you, they will get owned.

Group 1 + hunter in group2: Go rule midfield let noone pass, watch ramps and assist group 2 when they got flag. Killing healers has prio.
Rest of group 2: Go get flag, never abandon carrier, regroup behind beserker hut when wiped.


Thats the usual WSG start macro, the premade's im in consist of guildies or/with people from other befriended guilds, we dont have Ventrilo anymore atm.
Still a set of 6-8 macro's in /rs works fine. (eg: our flag is east, our flag is west, group 1 get flag gogo, group 2 guard midfield, all groups go zerg gogo, check youre groups)
We usually have a priest that fast with the /target and mindvision that calls enemy carrier positioning.

We never leave someone in the flagroom, thats an extra arm better used in midfield instead of twiddeling its thumbs 95% of the time in the flagroom if you ask me. And a lone defender is killed in rougly 1.8 sec doesnt matter what class it is. If its a warrior he is just sapped/charmed/feared/morphed and ignored.
About 999/1000 times in premade's the carrier is a druid so the slowing effects that the defender might throw out before he dies do squat.

We win most game's against other premade's, except those that are t2, t3 and bring 3 pally's. Gawd i hate pallies in wsg, hammer of justice, repetence, BoF + invincible healer is pretty imba if you ask me.

We usually play AB because its faster honor, 3-5 min wins vs 10 min wins (vs PuGs).
WSG is still my favorite by far though.

Edited, Dec 28th 2006 3:41am by Sjans

FOR THE HORDE!

Zerg ftw.

I would believe it is because rogues can stay hidden unlike hunters. NE's can Shadowmeld but that doesn't do too good, enemy rogues or druids in stealth can pop and and get the upper hand on a non-stealthed defender. That would be my reasoning of why Jord went with rogue, I could be wrong though

Don't forget about frost trap and intimidation (21 BM), a 3 sec stun, from my pet.

This is all that needs to be said here. People who play defense at the tunnel entrance and near the ramp will win. I usually like to have 2-3 people play this midfield area since the Horde generally come one or two at a time and gather up in the tunnel. 1 person can sit in the flag room for those that get by (but hopefully if things are done right that person getting by will be <50% health anyway, so it should be easy to take them out.

Everyone else should go on Offense and STICK together. That is how you win WSG.

Given that I'm Horde I have always been intrigued by the FR defense being a single nightelf warrior (it certainly works well in AB much to my druids surprise and dismay) with maybe engineering as his trade. Does that sounds crazy? Shadowmeld then a quick hamstring to slow the FC, a bomb to stun and break up the assists... You'd also survive a while to call the exit

edit: even better if you could use an intercept to then catch the FC

Edited, Dec 28th 2006 11:09am by dashwoe

In premade's the carrier never goes in first and in preamde vs premade, the guy that picks up the flag is rarely the carrier het drops it to the druid waiting on a safer spot to take it over, or when the FR has heavy defense, then the druid is waiting for a repick in an empty flagroom bc defenders are chasing and killing the decoy.

edit: I had an ASCII map.. but it didn't display right... so.... yea...

Edited, Dec 28th 2006 12:42pm by Webjunky