Now before someone come in running and yells 'No Class/Race is the BesT!' before they go in a corner and curls up in a fetal position in denial that there is some mathetical aspect to this game - I need to make it clear that this isn't a class or a race comparason.
Rather, it's concern about an ability that actually seem detrimental rather then good.
A quick look over the various racial active ability will show us that they vary in usefulness and power, but all but one are without contest good. There is no reason NOT to use them and they all benefits you no matter what class you are. To be brief I won't go over each and everyone seperatly.
The exception comes in with Blood Fury - the only ability with a drawback doesn't have a bonus that makes it worth it.
Blood Fury - active
Activate to increase Strength by 25% but take 5% health loss every 3 seconds - lasts 20 sec - 2 min cooldown
Here's what the description doesn't mention:
- You can die from the damage taken from your own Blood Fury.
- Blood Fury cannot be 'clicked' off, so you must keep it on for all 20 seconds.
- The damage taken from bloodfury equal 30% of your HP in 20 seconds, making it the most (or very close to) deadly DoT in the game.
- +25% Strenght seems impressive, but on my level 32 Shaman, it increase my DPS by all of 1.5.
So let's look at it this way - My Shaman triggers BloodFury, he'll sacrifice 420HP out of his 1230 to gain 30Damage over 20 seconds.
I'll repeat it : 420HP = 30Damage - that is assuming that there's no miss involved and all my hit land. Blood Fury takes it's toll even if a hit misses. Or heck, even if combat is over - that's how I discovered it could kill you.
And yes, in case you wonder, you do get a durability hit when bloodfury kills you. Talk about putting salt on the wounds.
It heavily favors Melee Classes
Blood Fury is the only racial ability that depends on a stat rather then just give an over all performance bonus. This mean that class with less Strenght with receive much less gain from it - while still paying the 30% HP price. Since you get a diminishing return with lower strenght, only Warrior really get the most out of it.
Hunter and Warlock get hit by a double whammy here, They aren't melee specialists. When your warlock/hunter is meleeing, you're already in trouble, slapping the worst DoT in the game on top of it to get a few more dps per second is NOT a good idea.
So when can you use it?
Now I'm all for an ability having a weakness and/or requiring a bit more strategy to be used properly. I'm not looking for a 'I win' button here, simply for an ability that's actually worth using. Logic dictate that any ability that has a drawback should provide an equal (or even greater) bonus.
About the only occassion where Blood Fury would be worthwhile is when you're in PvE and you have a tanks who's holding hate well enough that you won't get hit. But even then, use of blood fury will be a great drain on your hp (for very little gain) and will eventually requires your healer to waste mana on you.
Forget about using it in PVP. Bloodfury has a big animation and leave your firts glowing red afterward, might as well just scream 'I'm losing 30%HP over the next 20seconds, come finish me off!'. Anybody who isn't an idiot will target you and you'll die very quickly.
What the ability needs?
A couple of things really, I'm not saying I know how to change it to make it perfectly balanced, but right now, it's worse then useless, it's actually harmful.
The + and the - need to be re-calculated. If it only gives 25% strenght, then it need to do a LOT less DoT. If it still does 5% HP, then it need to do a LOT more damage. Something's gotta give.
At the very least, if nothing else change, it need to be 'clickable' so you can open up with a 'powerful' (hahaha!) strike and then close it before the ennemy strikes back.
The ability should be thinkered so that Warlock and Hunter actually have a reason to use it. Maybe make it so it that it gives a general (doesn't matter how much) damage increase to all your abilities.
My personal suggestion - Lower the Strenght increase to 20%, makes it increase Agility and Intelligence by 20% but for the purpose of ranged attack power and spell critical rate only! And totally removed the health penalty.
Before you says it's too powerful - I'll point you to a similar ability, the Troll's Berserk, which increase attack and casting speed by 30%. It might comes to you as shock that a 30% speed increase is already a lot better for damage dealing then a +25% STR is and unlike Blood Fury, it doesn't drain 1/3 of your hp... or a 20% (my suggestion) to STR or AGI/INT attack power/crit rate would be. It also make your healing spell go off faster.
Yet, I don't see anybody claiming that this ability is overpowered. Very few trolls seem to even realised they have the ability since I hardly ever see one use it. It's a shame really.
Granted, I've only done tests with my character, tonight I'll try and find higer level Orcs, hopefully of all classes and see what effect Blood Fury has on them and if suddenly, the math behind it start to make sense at high level.
But for sure, a low and med level, it's an awful ability.
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The Blood Fury Issue - need outputFollow
Not flaming but just to point out, Orcs have bloodrage that isn't useful for hunters and warlocks, but they also have the pet ability for those classes.
True, it is mitigated to a degree through the passive ability of Command. Now weither or not have +5 to your pet's attack makes up for having an ability that actually help the ennemy in killing you is still debatable.
Not to mention that even if one takes Hunter and Warlock out of the picture, Blood Fury is still severly broken. It leaves Warrior and Shaman with Axe Specialisation and Stun Resistance... and Rogue with only Stun Resistance. :(
Not to mention that even if one takes Hunter and Warlock out of the picture, Blood Fury is still severly broken. It leaves Warrior and Shaman with Axe Specialisation and Stun Resistance... and Rogue with only Stun Resistance. :(
Well I have to agree with you. Blood rage is the only racial ability I have seen that has no apparent uses. If anyone has used this usefully I would love to hear the story
Actually, what you are doing is trading mana for melee with this when you are a shaman.
You would activate it when you need to increase your melee damage and you are not the one holding agro. During the battle, you add extra melee damage by sacrificing something that is not critical to you...your HPs...as long as you are not holding agro. After the battle, you can heal yourself.
I disagree with the assessment that this is only good for melee...it is really only good for those who can heal themselves after the battle. A melee class would be stupid to use this and risk getting his health too low and have no way of quickly recovering it. A healer, on the other hand, may need that overdrive of melee DPS (not alot, 1.5 a sec is better than nothing) and then can heal themselves when done.
Not a great attribute, I agree. Using it would be very circumstantial.
But...I will also add that this illustrates why you cannot just look at the game mathematically. True, the trade-off seems bad...but what if hitting this at the end of a battle give you just enough power to defeat something that would have beaten you...and then you are able to heal yourself and counter the effect. The math aside, it worked. This game is far more situational than mathematical.
Edited, Wed Dec 22 11:37:47 2004 by lhuffman
You would activate it when you need to increase your melee damage and you are not the one holding agro. During the battle, you add extra melee damage by sacrificing something that is not critical to you...your HPs...as long as you are not holding agro. After the battle, you can heal yourself.
I disagree with the assessment that this is only good for melee...it is really only good for those who can heal themselves after the battle. A melee class would be stupid to use this and risk getting his health too low and have no way of quickly recovering it. A healer, on the other hand, may need that overdrive of melee DPS (not alot, 1.5 a sec is better than nothing) and then can heal themselves when done.
Not a great attribute, I agree. Using it would be very circumstantial.
But...I will also add that this illustrates why you cannot just look at the game mathematically. True, the trade-off seems bad...but what if hitting this at the end of a battle give you just enough power to defeat something that would have beaten you...and then you are able to heal yourself and counter the effect. The math aside, it worked. This game is far more situational than mathematical.
Edited, Wed Dec 22 11:37:47 2004 by lhuffman
Quote:
You would activate it when you need to increase your melee damage and you are not the one holding agro.
Yes, I've agreed that this the only time when using make sense. And again, even then, it's not much good. 420HP for 30 Damage is not a wise decision nor is it a wise 'spending choice' even if you aren't tanking and you have the ability to heal yourself.
Quote:
I disagree with the assessment that this is only good for melee...it is really only good for those who can heal themselves after the battle.
My main problem with that argument is that even the lower level of Shock spell (which cost very little mana) would do more damage then this melee overdrive.
Suppose I'm out of mana and full HP, fighting a mob that's being tanked by somebody else - which basically seem to be the situation you're refering too - I'd be better off waiting 5 seconds while my weapon swing, cast Earth Shock 2 and voila, I already did more damage then I would with my 20 seconds of Blood Fury. Without wasting 420HP which would in turn be a Healing Wace rank 4-5, which is a heck of a lot more mp then Earth Shock 2 is.
It just never is the best strategical choice.
You also have to realise that if as you say 'it's only good for class that can heal themselves', then that means it's only good for Shaman. 1/5th of the Orc class choice.
Now picture a Warrior or Rogue who's in a group... can he really ask his healer to pump 500HP worth of healing into him so he can do an extra 40 damage? He's going to be laughed out of the group.
Yet you expect a Shaman to do the same on himself?
Quote:
True, the trade-off seems bad...but what if hitting this at the end of a battle give you just enough power to defeat something that would have beaten you...and then you are able to heal yourself and counter the effect.
With all due respect, if you're in a toe to toe battle with a mob and it going down to the last sliver of health and it seems it could go both way - turning on Blood Fury will kill you. It won't make you win.
That simple. 5% of my health is 60HP, non-elite mobs don't even hit me that hard in one blow. Getting that 4-5 more damage in the last few second of combat won't make up for the 100+hp I'm going to lose. You'll need that 100hp a lot more then an extra 5 damage in such a close fight.
So no, bad exemple.
Maybe you just don't realise just how much Damage over Time we're talking about here... it's HUGE. It's litterly more damaging then any DoT a level 34 Warlock can throw at me.
Edited, Wed Dec 22 12:13:02 2004 by Tyrandor
Tyrandor wrote:
[quote] With all due respect, if you're in a toe to toe battle with a mob and it going down to the last sliver of health and it seems it could go both way - turning on Blood Fury will kill you. It won't make you win.
True. I did say right up front that it would be best to use if you were not holding agro.
But, there is a chance to use this to get the kill and then heal yourself.
It is actually not a very helpful attribute in general...as I also stated in my post...but I am sure there are situations where it could be useful.
Again, be serious here.
You have 100HP left, the Mob has 100HP left.
You both hit for 30 Damage.
You trigger Blood Fury You gain +5 to damage per hit (and that might be an exgeration, I'm being generous).
You hit the mob twice for 70. The mob hits you twice for 60 + 60 from the DoT. You die.
Look at it _anyway_ you want, you'll never find a situation like this one where it's better to turn on bloodfury then it is to simply slug it out with the mob. The HP you have is simply not made up by the puny dps increase.
What if you 200hp and the mob at 100hp? Again, do the math, you'll have MORE HP at the end of that close fight if you don't use Blood Fury. You'll end up with 50HP after the mob is dead (that is none of your hit miss, if one miss, BloodFury kills you) and halfway throught your next Bloodfury DoT - that means that even a lesser healing wave won't be fast enough to save your life. Oh, maybe if you have Nature's Swiftness (25point talent in Restoration) you'll be able to save yourself... all the while knowing that if you hadn't turned bloodfury on, you woudln't be in that predicament.
You can wave situations all around, and those might be valid if Bloodfury did as much damage to you as it did to the mob - then it would be all about strategy and getting that little extra push... but as it is, the math makes it so lop sided as to make it useless.
Edited, Wed Dec 22 12:31:23 2004 by Tyrandor
You have 100HP left, the Mob has 100HP left.
You both hit for 30 Damage.
You trigger Blood Fury You gain +5 to damage per hit (and that might be an exgeration, I'm being generous).
You hit the mob twice for 70. The mob hits you twice for 60 + 60 from the DoT. You die.
Look at it _anyway_ you want, you'll never find a situation like this one where it's better to turn on bloodfury then it is to simply slug it out with the mob. The HP you have is simply not made up by the puny dps increase.
What if you 200hp and the mob at 100hp? Again, do the math, you'll have MORE HP at the end of that close fight if you don't use Blood Fury. You'll end up with 50HP after the mob is dead (that is none of your hit miss, if one miss, BloodFury kills you) and halfway throught your next Bloodfury DoT - that means that even a lesser healing wave won't be fast enough to save your life. Oh, maybe if you have Nature's Swiftness (25point talent in Restoration) you'll be able to save yourself... all the while knowing that if you hadn't turned bloodfury on, you woudln't be in that predicament.
You can wave situations all around, and those might be valid if Bloodfury did as much damage to you as it did to the mob - then it would be all about strategy and getting that little extra push... but as it is, the math makes it so lop sided as to make it useless.
Edited, Wed Dec 22 12:31:23 2004 by Tyrandor
Tyr,
You've made a good case and no one's arguing that anymore. Though this forum may be a good place to get a reasonable set of ideas, it's probably the more futile place to argue that the ability is ineffective. That said, I'll try to add my suggestion.
Note: I have never used Orc, or any Horde race for that matter; I'm dwarf from head to toe, from shoulder to the tip of my beer mug.
I suggest that instead of a STR boost that you instead give a % bonus to your Attack power. That way you're actually doing more damage and it would be a solid trade off for 30% of you health. I don't know if +25% attack power would be too much, it'd have to be tested, but I believe that in your case, even 10% ATK would grant more than the 1.5dps bump you got. This change would still keep with the theme of Orcs gettin' all jazzed up on their rage and would adequately reward you for losing a considerable amount of health. Naturally a keen balance would be key; you can't be getting a better Active racial ability that's better than my 5% armor boost, with poison/bleed immunity! =)
You've made a good case and no one's arguing that anymore. Though this forum may be a good place to get a reasonable set of ideas, it's probably the more futile place to argue that the ability is ineffective. That said, I'll try to add my suggestion.
Note: I have never used Orc, or any Horde race for that matter; I'm dwarf from head to toe, from shoulder to the tip of my beer mug.
I suggest that instead of a STR boost that you instead give a % bonus to your Attack power. That way you're actually doing more damage and it would be a solid trade off for 30% of you health. I don't know if +25% attack power would be too much, it'd have to be tested, but I believe that in your case, even 10% ATK would grant more than the 1.5dps bump you got. This change would still keep with the theme of Orcs gettin' all jazzed up on their rage and would adequately reward you for losing a considerable amount of health. Naturally a keen balance would be key; you can't be getting a better Active racial ability that's better than my 5% armor boost, with poison/bleed immunity! =)
Well, I need to be sure my defense is iron clad, as the battle net forums are rather harsh with the flames and all :(.
What puzzle me is that despite months of beta this is ability is what it is. I can't believe I'm the only one seeing it's flaw (and I did at level 5 the first time I used it) - there has to be something I'm not seeing...
Directly increasing the Attack is already a step in the good direction. Altho I'm not sure if it's good enough, once again... RockBitter 4 adds like 100+ attack and increase the dps by roughly 10. So increase attack by 25% (that'd be like +45 at my level) would gives an extra 3-5 DPS increase. Granted, much better then 1.5, but still 60-150damage for 420HP is kinda dubious.
Honestly, I'd leave it to blizzard to figure a way to balance it, it's not my job to do so and I don't have access to their internal datas for balancing needs.
I'd like it if it was akwnoledged that it sucks and if they would agree to work on it however.
Heh, I don't mind ;).
I don't want orcs to have the 'best' racial ability (Well, I wouldn't mind, but it's not what I'm out for), all I want is an ability that's actually worth using... and I don't think anybody will think that's too much to ask.
What puzzle me is that despite months of beta this is ability is what it is. I can't believe I'm the only one seeing it's flaw (and I did at level 5 the first time I used it) - there has to be something I'm not seeing...
Directly increasing the Attack is already a step in the good direction. Altho I'm not sure if it's good enough, once again... RockBitter 4 adds like 100+ attack and increase the dps by roughly 10. So increase attack by 25% (that'd be like +45 at my level) would gives an extra 3-5 DPS increase. Granted, much better then 1.5, but still 60-150damage for 420HP is kinda dubious.
Honestly, I'd leave it to blizzard to figure a way to balance it, it's not my job to do so and I don't have access to their internal datas for balancing needs.
I'd like it if it was akwnoledged that it sucks and if they would agree to work on it however.
Quote:
you can't be getting a better Active racial ability that's better than my 5% armor boost, with poison/bleed immunity! =)
Heh, I don't mind ;).
I don't want orcs to have the 'best' racial ability (Well, I wouldn't mind, but it's not what I'm out for), all I want is an ability that's actually worth using... and I don't think anybody will think that's too much to ask.
Like the Tauren's passive "Cultivation" ability (+15 to herbalism) is good for my Tauren Hunter. The only people that this helps are those that have herbalism.
Talk about a wasted talent.
This game is far more situational than mathematical.
Amen!!
Talk about a wasted talent.
The Honorable lhuffman wrote:
This game is far more situational than mathematical.
Amen!!
You can't make a global active trait that will be better than class traits. Frankly, it should only be a little boost to combat and should stay well away from being significant--the abilities themselves are there solely to flesh out the races themselves and not change gameplay mechanics entirely....
Perhaps the sollution would be to burn the candle from both ends: make it ATK+ and lower the health debt to 25% (or a bit less) over the duration. Or leave the STR boost, reduce the blood-debt and make it cancellable? Though making it cancellable seems cheap. The way I see it, Blood Fury is something that happens when an Orc lets go and unleashes the (Blizzard described) self-destructive force innate in all their kind--it's an act of losing control and you shouldn't be able to regain that self-composure at will.
Blizzard hasn't necessarily balanced BF appropriately for the game, but even as it is now you have to admit it really does flesh out the Orc's inner battle pretty well.
Perhaps the sollution would be to burn the candle from both ends: make it ATK+ and lower the health debt to 25% (or a bit less) over the duration. Or leave the STR boost, reduce the blood-debt and make it cancellable? Though making it cancellable seems cheap. The way I see it, Blood Fury is something that happens when an Orc lets go and unleashes the (Blizzard described) self-destructive force innate in all their kind--it's an act of losing control and you shouldn't be able to regain that self-composure at will.
Blizzard hasn't necessarily balanced BF appropriately for the game, but even as it is now you have to admit it really does flesh out the Orc's inner battle pretty well.
Yeah, the traits are just there to add some color to the races. They tend to match the race's culture.
The traits shouldn't give a huge advantage to gameplay.
Thinking of it from that point of view, Blood Fury works the way it is. The orc uses it to go nuts and slay it's foe, little caring about his/her own life.
I think this is a case where it's there less for gameplay mathematics and there for gameplay immersion.
The traits shouldn't give a huge advantage to gameplay.
Thinking of it from that point of view, Blood Fury works the way it is. The orc uses it to go nuts and slay it's foe, little caring about his/her own life.
I think this is a case where it's there less for gameplay mathematics and there for gameplay immersion.
So, my tauren hunter was out hunting the other day and a wand dropped. It was pretty cool. Then I realized, Blizzard puposely nerfed the game against me being able to use this wand! It sucks. I want to use it but I can't because i am a hunter and hunters can;t use wands. Way to go Blizzard.
Get the point Tyr? You made your point. All of us agreed more or less. I am not one to consider something pointless just because some propeller-head tells me it is, regardless of the math he brings to back him up.
So, change races or games if it bothers you this much...or maybe just get over it. I either never want to talk about the attribute again, or make a character and try to use it just to prove that it does have a pupose. Not sure which would be more satisfying. Well...with Christmas time and all...and the fact that have better things to do, I will do the first and not think about it any more. :-)
Get the point Tyr? You made your point. All of us agreed more or less. I am not one to consider something pointless just because some propeller-head tells me it is, regardless of the math he brings to back him up.
So, change races or games if it bothers you this much...or maybe just get over it. I either never want to talk about the attribute again, or make a character and try to use it just to prove that it does have a pupose. Not sure which would be more satisfying. Well...with Christmas time and all...and the fact that have better things to do, I will do the first and not think about it any more. :-)
Way to go around the issue.
Weither or not Blizzard should have put 'profession' bonus as racial ability is a whole other can of worm here.
A troll 'thrown weapon' bonus is lost on a lot of classes too while we're at it, that's beside the point here.
Not using herbalism doesn't hurt you, it's not like you're getting a -15 to another skill. Using bloodfury hurts you.
Beside, you can hardly compare Active abilities and Passive abilities, they aren't even close to requiring the same balance or having the same power range and usability.
The idea of an active ability is all about when you'll use it and how you'll manage to use it. It's all about strategy. It adds one more 'fun' factor to the game. But any wise strategist will quickly realise that there's never a good time to use Bloodfury. Crippling yourself for a flimsy advantage is simply not a smart move. And there's nothing fun about it.
Weither or not Blizzard should have put 'profession' bonus as racial ability is a whole other can of worm here.
A troll 'thrown weapon' bonus is lost on a lot of classes too while we're at it, that's beside the point here.
Not using herbalism doesn't hurt you, it's not like you're getting a -15 to another skill. Using bloodfury hurts you.
Beside, you can hardly compare Active abilities and Passive abilities, they aren't even close to requiring the same balance or having the same power range and usability.
The idea of an active ability is all about when you'll use it and how you'll manage to use it. It's all about strategy. It adds one more 'fun' factor to the game. But any wise strategist will quickly realise that there's never a good time to use Bloodfury. Crippling yourself for a flimsy advantage is simply not a smart move. And there's nothing fun about it.
Here is an idea. 25% str and -100% armor for 15 secs
Tyrandor wrote:
But any wise strategist will quickly realise that there's never a good time to use Bloodfury. Crippling yourself for a flimsy advantage is simply not a smart move. And there's nothing fun about it.
Just because you can't think of a good time, doesn't mean others don't.
You're the first person I've heard complain about this.
When I get on tonight, I'll check with the orcs in my guild, see what they think.
edit: Since it did last thru betas without being changed, or if it did, this was the end product; that leads me to believe that not that many people had problems with it.
Edited, Wed Dec 22 13:21:41 2004 by SeomanP
Tyrandor wrote:
Way to go around the issue.
No...we are not going around the issue...you are making a big issue out of a little thing.
Seo's example is perfect. I have a tauren that does not practice herbalism, so that attribute is worthless for me? Do I care? No. I cannot use it...but so what. I also do not need it.
If you cannot figure out how to make your racial attribute work for you, don't use it. Pretty simple concept. No class has a racial attribute that gives them a significant advantage over the other.
I am sure there is a time and a place for this attribute. I have not looked into it or experimented with it, so I cannot say for sure...but if it survived the last few months through beta without anyone griping about it until you...I am inclined to believe that you misunderstand the attribute or it's purpose. I am going to have to use it. I think I used it once to fight scorpids in the newbie zone. It dropped off my button bar because there were too many other things I was using. That is how important it was to me.
Quote:
You can't make a global active trait that will be better than class traits.
I agree and that's not what I'm asking. I want it to be useful. I want to be a viable strategic decision, which it isn't right now.
Quote:
Blizzard hasn't necessarily balanced BF appropriately for the game, but even as it is now you have to admit it really does flesh out the Orc's inner battle pretty well.
...
think this is a case where it's there less for gameplay mathematics and there for gameplay immersion.
...
think this is a case where it's there less for gameplay mathematics and there for gameplay immersion.
I disagree.
The orcs blood fury is something that's supposed to be fearsome. Nothing fearsome about it right now, as it does hurt him a lot more then it hurt you.
It's to the point where you WANT the orc to use it so you'll get an easier fight.
WoW lore doesn't support that.
Quote:
Then I realized, Blizzard puposely nerfed the game against me being able to use this wand! It sucks. I want to use it but I can't because i am a hunter and hunters can;t use wands. Way to go Blizzard.
You can sell the wand for money. You can trade it to another player. Thus, it's not wasted on you.
Again, bad exemple.
Quote:
So, change races or games if it bothers you this much...or maybe just get over it. I either never want to talk about the attribute again, or make a character and try to use it just to prove that it does have a pupose. Not sure which would be more satisfying. Well...with Christmas time and all...and the fact that have better things to do, I will do the first and not think about it any more. :-)
So...
Instead of acknowledgeing that their might be a problem and that just maybe, we can point it out to Blizzard in hope that they can balance thing further, you'd rather bury your head in the sand?
I wish you'd try an orc tho, and try to prove me wrong. I'd love it. I got nothing to lose, if you manage to prove the ability is cool, I'll be happy. Heck, I'd like nothing more then to be wrong. But I don't think you'll be able to. I actually got the ability, remember? I'm not just making up situation to try and prove a point - I've tried it and I've tested it.
Does it bother me enough to drop the game? Of course not. Will I drop my Orc for it? No, I like the orc's look to much.
Does that mean I can't wish for something better? That I can't find a 'problem' with the game and wish it fix?
Why does that have to be impossible?
Tyrandor wrote:
[quote]
Instead of acknowledgeing that their might be a problem and that just maybe, we can point it out to Blizzard in hope that they can balance thing further, you'd rather bury your head in the sand?
Instead of acknowledgeing that their might be a problem and that just maybe, we can point it out to Blizzard in hope that they can balance thing further, you'd rather bury your head in the sand?
ROFL...you are truly funny. Acknowledge that there is a problem? With a stinking racial attribute in a silly cartoon video game? Now that is funny.
You know Tyr...why don't you fight this one. I am on your side buddy! Write to Blizzard. If that does not work, hire Michael Moore to take his camera crew to Blizzards offices where they will refuse to talk to you about the 'orc racial attribute' issue. You can also write your congressman or petition for this to go to the supreme court...they love hearing racial issues.
Get over yourself. It is a game. If it is causing you this much stress and ire, then maybe it is not for you. I am not burying my head in the sand, I just do not give a rats ***. There is a huge, I mean gynormous, difference. We are not wimping out on something important...we are saying WHO CARES?
And yes, I really am laughing at you.
Wait this is a game. Now what am I going to tell work.
Man, if you don't care, just don't post? 2nd to me you're the most active poster in this thread - not bad for somebody who doesn't care - makes one wonder who's more laugh worthy. There's a lot more post on the forum dealing with all kind of topics, since you don't care, you're obviously not interested in bringing anything to this topic, right?
I'm not feeling anger or ire in this post, I'm having fun. It's taking a lot of time out of my boring work days. :P Oh, and it makes my post count go up.
Yes, I do care. Because I like the game and I think it sucks that this one ability isn't any good. If caring about a game in which I'm putting dozen of hours of playtime makes me funny, well then yes, I am funny.
I do.
Imios agreed with me.
Krycis agreed.
So some people do care.
Even Seoman said he'd bring up to his guildmate.
Even you came in the post saying 'it's situational' and then you come back saying 'we don't care'.
it's not 'We', it's you who doesn't care. I'm fine with that, you don't have to care. But why are you still posting?
Edited, Wed Dec 22 13:58:00 2004 by Tyrandor
I'm not feeling anger or ire in this post, I'm having fun. It's taking a lot of time out of my boring work days. :P Oh, and it makes my post count go up.
Yes, I do care. Because I like the game and I think it sucks that this one ability isn't any good. If caring about a game in which I'm putting dozen of hours of playtime makes me funny, well then yes, I am funny.
Quote:
we are saying WHO CARES?
I do.
Imios agreed with me.
Krycis agreed.
So some people do care.
Even Seoman said he'd bring up to his guildmate.
Even you came in the post saying 'it's situational' and then you come back saying 'we don't care'.
it's not 'We', it's you who doesn't care. I'm fine with that, you don't have to care. But why are you still posting?
Edited, Wed Dec 22 13:58:00 2004 by Tyrandor
I agreed with you. I really did...if you go back and read the post. But you did not like that I said that there were some cases where it might be usable. The difference is, I agreed but am not angry about it or feel something should be done. I just agree that maybe the attribute sucks.
As for posting on this forum...well, I am at work and bored. hehe.
And I am not one of the top posters, by a long shot.
So, Tyr, if it makes you feel better, yes, your racial attribute is really messed up. So sorry dude. Are you happy? But I am not joining you on your campaign to right the wrongs. You are the one who accused me of burying my head in the sand...what the hell is that. That is what makes you funny...getting all militant about a stupid who cares ability.
Yes, people have agreed with you, but only with your assessment, not your sentiment. I do not see an army of people wanting blizzard to fix this grievious error that seems to have you so passionate. No, they have said, yeah, the attribute kinda sucks. Oh well. Moving on.
As for posting on this forum...well, I am at work and bored. hehe.
And I am not one of the top posters, by a long shot.
So, Tyr, if it makes you feel better, yes, your racial attribute is really messed up. So sorry dude. Are you happy? But I am not joining you on your campaign to right the wrongs. You are the one who accused me of burying my head in the sand...what the hell is that. That is what makes you funny...getting all militant about a stupid who cares ability.
Yes, people have agreed with you, but only with your assessment, not your sentiment. I do not see an army of people wanting blizzard to fix this grievious error that seems to have you so passionate. No, they have said, yeah, the attribute kinda sucks. Oh well. Moving on.
I said the burying your head in the sand issue because you drop the 'if you don't like it, leave it' angle. It's close minded and totally refuse that their might be place for change and amelioration to the status quo. Which is exactly the attitude you're showing by telling me to simply leave instead of having an opinion.
I never posted this expecting to get support and rally the troops - how could I do that and how could I 'rally' the troops? I don't know where you got the idea.
I've even said in the previous post that I posted here to 'strenghten' my defense against flames. I got the arguments out here, I wanted to see if somebody could throw an argument back they'd made me go 'Hey, you're right, it is good in that situation'.
Made up 'Situation' that may or not be true (and which I have tested in game and found to be untrue) I'm afraid aren't doing it.
It may come as a shock to you, but Blizzard does have a suggestion forum, I was posting it here first because I respect the opinion of the posters here.
I wasn't expecting somebody to post 4 post about the fact that they don't care about the topic tho. If you don't, then to put it kindly, STFU and post elsewhere.
Somebody posted a rant about bandages yesterday, I don't care about it. No what I did? I didn't post on it. Yeah, I know, it's a wild idea.
And again...
Iomis said he'd like to hear the story of bloodrage being useful.
Krys gave suggestion on how to fix it.
Seoman said he'd bring it to his guild.
Not the action of people who don't care.
All I did is bring the issue up and then I'll put it on the Blizz suggestion forums.
Obviously, to you that means marshalling an army and attacking Blizzard somehow. Right.
On this thread? You are. I said on this thread.
I never posted this expecting to get support and rally the troops - how could I do that and how could I 'rally' the troops? I don't know where you got the idea.
I've even said in the previous post that I posted here to 'strenghten' my defense against flames. I got the arguments out here, I wanted to see if somebody could throw an argument back they'd made me go 'Hey, you're right, it is good in that situation'.
Made up 'Situation' that may or not be true (and which I have tested in game and found to be untrue) I'm afraid aren't doing it.
It may come as a shock to you, but Blizzard does have a suggestion forum, I was posting it here first because I respect the opinion of the posters here.
I wasn't expecting somebody to post 4 post about the fact that they don't care about the topic tho. If you don't, then to put it kindly, STFU and post elsewhere.
Somebody posted a rant about bandages yesterday, I don't care about it. No what I did? I didn't post on it. Yeah, I know, it's a wild idea.
Quote:
I do not see an army of people wanting blizzard to fix this grievious error that seems to have you so passionate. No, they have said, yeah, the attribute kinda sucks. Oh well. Moving on.
And again...
Iomis said he'd like to hear the story of bloodrage being useful.
Krys gave suggestion on how to fix it.
Seoman said he'd bring it to his guild.
Not the action of people who don't care.
All I did is bring the issue up and then I'll put it on the Blizz suggestion forums.
Obviously, to you that means marshalling an army and attacking Blizzard somehow. Right.
Quote:
And I am not one of the top posters, by a long shot.
On this thread? You are. I said on this thread.
I agree with Tyrandor wholly here. Bloodrage is not just a useless ability. It harms you greatly, the only slight use I see is a orc warrior, with every thing in str, in berserk stance, not tanking, then I think it would be a nice bonus.
But as Tyrandor said, I should be changed so it has a use. Not so orcs could be uber. Just so they don't have an racial trait that kills them for little to no reason.
But as Tyrandor said, I should be changed so it has a use. Not so orcs could be uber. Just so they don't have an racial trait that kills them for little to no reason.
Welcome to the Revolution comrade Imios!
/hands Imios a rifle and a red outfit.
DEATH TO BLIZZARD!
:P
/hands Imios a rifle and a red outfit.
DEATH TO BLIZZARD!
:P
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