this came to my attention today while attempting to purchase a recipe from the AH.
On auctions that don't have a buy out or have passed the buy out price it is entirely possible to jack up the bid on other players buy using a mule to ramp up the bid.
My question is do you think this is an exploit used to make more money, or is it a viable busness stratagy?
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Exploit, or just good busness?Follow
Hmmm...not sure that it fits either category.
An exploit is one that takes advantage of a flaw in the system. While this is close to that...this is a flaw in auctions in general. There are historical examples of people hiring professional bidders to jack up the price of certain items. There was a time when the most expensive painting in the world at that time had an asterisk next to it, because it was believed that the owner of the painting had hired people to pump up the value.
Viable business practice...well, yes it is viable. It is also unethical. Doubt if it is against the rules, though. Would have to look at the Blizzard web sitee and see what they say about it, if anything. It should not be too hard to prevent people from bidding on items that are on one of their other characters...but if they have more than one accoun t or have a friend do the jacking up, how do you prevent or even catch that?
An exploit is one that takes advantage of a flaw in the system. While this is close to that...this is a flaw in auctions in general. There are historical examples of people hiring professional bidders to jack up the price of certain items. There was a time when the most expensive painting in the world at that time had an asterisk next to it, because it was believed that the owner of the painting had hired people to pump up the value.
Viable business practice...well, yes it is viable. It is also unethical. Doubt if it is against the rules, though. Would have to look at the Blizzard web sitee and see what they say about it, if anything. It should not be too hard to prevent people from bidding on items that are on one of their other characters...but if they have more than one accoun t or have a friend do the jacking up, how do you prevent or even catch that?
I doubt it would work well. It works irl, because auctions occur in real time, and people respond. A good plant can tell how far he can raise it risk free by judging the othe buyer's reaction. It works on ebay as well- I've bid on items for my sister. It won't work well in WoW, because of the 8 hr auctions. 8 hrs is too long for people to wait by the AH to bid, but too short to get a good bidding war going. The requirement to travel to the auction house makes it difficult to get people to rebid. I think you're better off raising your opening price instead, or passing along the fact its up for auction for rare drops.
Not sure what you are trying to accomplish, but to clarify, when you bid on something it takes the amount of your bid from you as a deposit.
If you are talking about bidding on your own items, and you win, you lose out on the fee, so you only hurt yourself.
If you are bidding on your own items to try to bait people into bidding more on them, why not just set the start price higher? Other people can't tell if the displayed "bid" price is a true bid or a bid someone else has placed.
Maybe I'm missing what you are trying to accomplish?
When I list items, I set a start price of the least I'd be happy to get, and a buy-out that is reasonable, yet would make me smile.. Worked well for me so far...
Edited, Fri Dec 10 15:44:47 2004 by Malyr
Edited, Fri Dec 10 16:03:51 2004 by Malyr
If you are talking about bidding on your own items, and you win, you lose out on the fee, so you only hurt yourself.
If you are bidding on your own items to try to bait people into bidding more on them, why not just set the start price higher? Other people can't tell if the displayed "bid" price is a true bid or a bid someone else has placed.
Maybe I'm missing what you are trying to accomplish?
When I list items, I set a start price of the least I'd be happy to get, and a buy-out that is reasonable, yet would make me smile.. Worked well for me so far...
Edited, Fri Dec 10 15:44:47 2004 by Malyr
Edited, Fri Dec 10 16:03:51 2004 by Malyr
not really trying to accomplish anything.
you can't bid on your own items, but if you have a mule that you send a bunch of money to the mule could do it for you. on items like recipes you could have no buy out and set the bidding at a resonably high price. typicly these items are sought out because of their low drop rate and crafters need them. with a mule online at the AH and logged on 24-7 you could effectively hike the price up on your recipe immediatly when you saw a bid come through. with a little foresight on current going rates you could effectively jack the price up on your own merchandise while the other players are still standing next to the counter. this in turn would most likely force another bid very quickly seeing as how they are still next to the AH and want to get in the high bid before going out to grind. do this about 3 times and get the price up to where you want it. Most likely because the item is not a consumable or trade good (persay) the person would most likely try again to beat your price. If you win then you get far more money than you bargained for if you lose oh well your measly 80cp-2sp wasn't that much anyway.
Not to say that you should do this. I noticed it when i was at the AH and got into a Bidding war with someone. It occured to me that most likely it was the origianal seller implementing this same tactic. Wether it was or wasn't, the point remains that it could happen, and wether it is fair game or not.
you can't bid on your own items, but if you have a mule that you send a bunch of money to the mule could do it for you. on items like recipes you could have no buy out and set the bidding at a resonably high price. typicly these items are sought out because of their low drop rate and crafters need them. with a mule online at the AH and logged on 24-7 you could effectively hike the price up on your recipe immediatly when you saw a bid come through. with a little foresight on current going rates you could effectively jack the price up on your own merchandise while the other players are still standing next to the counter. this in turn would most likely force another bid very quickly seeing as how they are still next to the AH and want to get in the high bid before going out to grind. do this about 3 times and get the price up to where you want it. Most likely because the item is not a consumable or trade good (persay) the person would most likely try again to beat your price. If you win then you get far more money than you bargained for if you lose oh well your measly 80cp-2sp wasn't that much anyway.
Not to say that you should do this. I noticed it when i was at the AH and got into a Bidding war with someone. It occured to me that most likely it was the origianal seller implementing this same tactic. Wether it was or wasn't, the point remains that it could happen, and wether it is fair game or not.
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If you are talking about bidding on your own items, and you win, you lose out on the fee, so you only hurt yourself.
This is not true. You only lose your deposit if your item doesn't sell at all - if your item sells, you are refunded the Deposit fee.
Try this sometime: Put an auction on a common item that you can afford to lose a few silver on. Put the Buyout as a round number below what the going rate is - lower enough that it'll get bought quickly.
For example, I sell bags on one of my characters. If I put an auction up for a Woolen Bag for 8 silver, with a Buyout at 12 silver, it'll charge me around 40 copper - and I'll get 12 silver and 40 copper back when someone uses Buyout.
Yes, bid shilling (that's what it's called) is possible in the WoW Auction House. But you don't have to play along... there's always a next time. I rarely rebid more than twice on anything, even rare recipes.
Scholar
45 posts
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It works on ebay as well- I've bid on items for my sister.
You are a horrible excuse for a human being, sir.
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It works on ebay as well- I've bid on items for my sister.
Please keep it up, since it is against EBay policy you just better hope they don't catch on. They have levied HEAVY fines on previous offenders who practiced similar tactics.
I know of two people that hawk the Auction House on the Silver Moon server. I am guessing this is exactly what they are doing. Both are just normal naked level 1 warriors that are constantly in the AH, never leveling, and pretty much never leaving.
I believe they have two accounts. One they play on while their items are up for auction, and one that sits in the AH waiting for someone to bid on the item, so they can jump from the character they play, to the character in the AH when something of theirs is bid on, and maybe hike the price up.
I was wondering, should I report this? IMO if someone is caught doing this, they should be banned, maybe seems a bit unfair, but what they are doing just isin't right.
Opinions?
Edited, Sat Dec 11 08:37:19 2004 by xXDragonXx
I believe they have two accounts. One they play on while their items are up for auction, and one that sits in the AH waiting for someone to bid on the item, so they can jump from the character they play, to the character in the AH when something of theirs is bid on, and maybe hike the price up.
I was wondering, should I report this? IMO if someone is caught doing this, they should be banned, maybe seems a bit unfair, but what they are doing just isin't right.
Opinions?
Edited, Sat Dec 11 08:37:19 2004 by xXDragonXx
Scholar
21 posts
i think ppl should just leave their item up and let it sell normally. Blizz made it pretty easy to make money in this game, so there is no need (IMO) to waste the time having two characters and switching back and forth. But hey, it's not like I can stop them...
I was of the understanding you couldn't bid on your own auctions, even with a second character. Your whole account is off-limits from it.
A second account or a buddy could, of course.
A second account or a buddy could, of course.
Only the exceptions can be exceptional.
Bid shilling like card counting(for Blackjack) has been going on for hundreds of years If multi billion dollars companies like Ebay or Etude Tajan, can't stop it. I don't believe Blizzard is going to bother for a couple of pieces of silver and a gold or two. Plus I'd rather them be policing Bots and ppl selling stuff on Ebay for RL cash.
If ppl want to make a deal with there friend to bid on one of there items to drive the price uo of said item so the real customer has to pay more for it, I say go for it.
It adds a real life feel to the game, it happens in the Art world all the time. Its standard practice on Ebay to have a friend do it. Corrupt(Yes), Immoral(Defenitly) So no its not a Exploit, and its not really good buisness, cause if the customer finds out you rep is shot to hell, but it is the way the real world works: SHADES OF GREY!
So sure i don't get the deal, Im looking for but it adds a certain underground/disreputable art world feel to it.Your going to get honest sellars, sleezy sellars, and crooks. Just what I want in a game. This doesn't take away from the game it adds morality. Farming Bots a ppl selling stuff for Real Cash subtracts from the game.
If ppl want to make a deal with there friend to bid on one of there items to drive the price uo of said item so the real customer has to pay more for it, I say go for it.
It adds a real life feel to the game, it happens in the Art world all the time. Its standard practice on Ebay to have a friend do it. Corrupt(Yes), Immoral(Defenitly) So no its not a Exploit, and its not really good buisness, cause if the customer finds out you rep is shot to hell, but it is the way the real world works: SHADES OF GREY!
So sure i don't get the deal, Im looking for but it adds a certain underground/disreputable art world feel to it.Your going to get honest sellars, sleezy sellars, and crooks. Just what I want in a game. This doesn't take away from the game it adds morality. Farming Bots a ppl selling stuff for Real Cash subtracts from the game.
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