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I was running around Westfall with my level 11 Dwarven Paladin yesterday and a level 15 Hunter challenged me to a duel. I didn't have anything pressing happening so I decided to accept. My question is whether it was ok for me to use Lay of Hands in that situation. I ended up winning, but the guy was cranky cuz I used it. My theory is that I was giving up 4 levels to the dude, and I had it available, so why not. Just curious on everyone elses position on this.
Personally, imo, unless you both aggreed to not use certain things before you acepted, anything is game.
Tomec's right - anything goes unless expressly agreed upon by both parties ahead of time. He sounds like he was being a poor sport about losing to a lower-leveled player... most likely, he's the sort of coward who only challenges people below his level.
You did a good job beating him, and you deserved congratulations for it. The fact that he chose to get bent out of shape over it says a lot more about him than about you.
You did a good job beating him, and you deserved congratulations for it. The fact that he chose to get bent out of shape over it says a lot more about him than about you.
Yea I agree, some people don't ever challenge people who could offer them some sport. (closer to if not higher then their level)
You were brave enough to accept, and I really think he was just being a poor sport about loosing to someone lower them him. You did nothing wrong though, nothing at all. Maybe next time he wont pick a pally to try to duel.
You were brave enough to accept, and I really think he was just being a poor sport about loosing to someone lower them him. You did nothing wrong though, nothing at all. Maybe next time he wont pick a pally to try to duel.
I'm not a big dueller but the other posters are spot on.
My view on dueling has always been you use whatever skills, abilities and weapons at your disposal to vanquish your foe. Unless he expressly asked you not to use it prior and you agreed he is *** out of luck and crying won't help him one bit.
My view on dueling has always been you use whatever skills, abilities and weapons at your disposal to vanquish your foe. Unless he expressly asked you not to use it prior and you agreed he is *** out of luck and crying won't help him one bit.
Thanks, makes me feel better. Now i can just be happy i spanked a hunter 4 levels higher than me :)
Before reading ability
I agree with everyone else. If you have an ability, and there was no Pre-Duel agreement to not use certain abilities then by all means plow through him and claim victory.
After reading ability
Wait, so he is mad because you healed yourself. Sorry it just doesn't make sense why you wouldn't. That's like asking him to not put any form of hold ability on your character so he can hit you at range.
In fact that's a good exchange, if he says no Lay of Hands then you tell him he can't use any form of ability that slows you or holds you in place. He has to sit there and he smacked around.
I agree with everyone else. If you have an ability, and there was no Pre-Duel agreement to not use certain abilities then by all means plow through him and claim victory.
After reading ability
Wait, so he is mad because you healed yourself. Sorry it just doesn't make sense why you wouldn't. That's like asking him to not put any form of hold ability on your character so he can hit you at range.
In fact that's a good exchange, if he says no Lay of Hands then you tell him he can't use any form of ability that slows you or holds you in place. He has to sit there and he smacked around.
16 posts
Sounds to me like the other guy was just upset he lost.
Standard "i lost but i don't want to admit it was because you were better than me" cop out.
Aumerle
22 Night Elf Rogue
Stormreaver
Standard "i lost but i don't want to admit it was because you were better than me" cop out.
Aumerle
22 Night Elf Rogue
Stormreaver
1 post
That said, dueling a hunter and his pet is hard :/
If a person wants to duel you, they duel you at your best. If they want to start a handicap match, they better talk about it before you accept any duel.
My favorite sceen since playing was in the middle of Goldshire.
Flag pops up or drops down, so here is this rogue and a hunter, both level 15. In say.
Rogue: Put away your pet.
Hunter: Why?
Rogue: I didn't agree to duel your pet.
Hunter: You offered to duel me, my pet is a part of me.
Rogue: Then let me run into the woods and stealth first.
Hunter: Do I look stupid?
Rogue: Then put away your pet. It's not fair I can't use all my abilities and you can use all yours.
About four people in Goldshire started laughing at this point.
Honestly I think peoples idea's of duels are very broken. From random challanges, to people "Declaring" what you can and can't do, it's all quite silly.
My favorite sceen since playing was in the middle of Goldshire.
Flag pops up or drops down, so here is this rogue and a hunter, both level 15. In say.
Rogue: Put away your pet.
Hunter: Why?
Rogue: I didn't agree to duel your pet.
Hunter: You offered to duel me, my pet is a part of me.
Rogue: Then let me run into the woods and stealth first.
Hunter: Do I look stupid?
Rogue: Then put away your pet. It's not fair I can't use all my abilities and you can use all yours.
About four people in Goldshire started laughing at this point.
Honestly I think peoples idea's of duels are very broken. From random challanges, to people "Declaring" what you can and can't do, it's all quite silly.
LMAO... At that point, as the hunter I would have said "SURE go ahead and go into the forest and put on stealth ...sure...go..." em/ wave...
As he runs to the forest I put Hunters Mark on him....snicker.
Here's a different question about etiquitte then...
I have just created/purchaced a number of healing potions. My bag is up and in the middle of the duel I start popping off healing potions... In Diablo II that was always considered 'Bad Form' What says the people of Allakhazam?
As he runs to the forest I put Hunters Mark on him....snicker.
Here's a different question about etiquitte then...
I have just created/purchaced a number of healing potions. My bag is up and in the middle of the duel I start popping off healing potions... In Diablo II that was always considered 'Bad Form' What says the people of Allakhazam?
He was just miffed he lost, in a duel its anything goes, I got my butt handed to me by a warrior 4 levels lower then I because he used retaliate, I was impressed not mad =)
On the potion question, with the reuse time on potions here you more than likely would only get the chance to use one unless you both have incredibly low DPS or very good mitigation, or a combination of both. 2 minute cooldown on the potions and the cooldown on bandages makes them fairly ineffective in a duel in my opinion.
Potions and bandages are major in any case of pvp. They arent required at all, if your against a stronger oponent that could mean life or death. bandages can be done while on the run so it is very critical for times you have to run away/you have time to get away from the opponent. This is less meaningful for healing classes a lot of the time, but its nice when your out of mana and pop a rejuv potion.
Classes that have pet or minion should start duel with the pet or minion because without them, they are at least 4 levels weaker than the same level of another class. I seriously doubt that a level 30 hunter or warlock could beat any other level 30 class if he was missing his pet.
Rogue should not start with Stealth as this is an ability such as hunters mark. If rogue starts with stealth then you could argue that hunters mark was fair too hence no point.
My question is: Is it OK to start a duel with buffs or not? I guess you decide this before hand:
My Rogue asks the Shaman: Are we pre-buffing?
Shaman says: Yes
So I proceed to use about 6 potions which I happen to have on me and poison my weapons. Shaman buffs up and lays a totem down - pretty fair I guess.
Followup question: Can a rogue start with his weapons poisoned? I usually have them prepped with poison at all times - but they are a buff on the weapon so I think if the agreement is "no pre-buffs" then the rogue is slightly less powerful and should not have them buffed.
Rogue should not start with Stealth as this is an ability such as hunters mark. If rogue starts with stealth then you could argue that hunters mark was fair too hence no point.
My question is: Is it OK to start a duel with buffs or not? I guess you decide this before hand:
My Rogue asks the Shaman: Are we pre-buffing?
Shaman says: Yes
So I proceed to use about 6 potions which I happen to have on me and poison my weapons. Shaman buffs up and lays a totem down - pretty fair I guess.
Followup question: Can a rogue start with his weapons poisoned? I usually have them prepped with poison at all times - but they are a buff on the weapon so I think if the agreement is "no pre-buffs" then the rogue is slightly less powerful and should not have them buffed.
thou i still don;t have my retail copy, i'm going to comment on this because i remember dueling in EQ
Main un-offical rul;es usually went like this, you start duel with no pets, no buffs, and without using any potions, anything bar potions you want to use you have to cast during the duel itself, unless both of you agree to different rules
Personally I liked to keep extra damage shield potion on me at all times as when it came down to dueling, for the most part, anything goes thats at your disposal, thou to agree or not to agree on potions and bandages before hand would be probably a wise idea to save someone feeling hard done by because they didn't ahve any potions etc
As for you using lay on hands, thats what it's there for, if he had an ounce of sense, he woulda known pally's have loh skill and would have held back an "ace" of some kind for when you used it, he didn't, and got whupped because of it, more fool him i say and grats to you, 4 lvls lower as well=)
Majria
Main un-offical rul;es usually went like this, you start duel with no pets, no buffs, and without using any potions, anything bar potions you want to use you have to cast during the duel itself, unless both of you agree to different rules
Personally I liked to keep extra damage shield potion on me at all times as when it came down to dueling, for the most part, anything goes thats at your disposal, thou to agree or not to agree on potions and bandages before hand would be probably a wise idea to save someone feeling hard done by because they didn't ahve any potions etc
As for you using lay on hands, thats what it's there for, if he had an ounce of sense, he woulda known pally's have loh skill and would have held back an "ace" of some kind for when you used it, he didn't, and got whupped because of it, more fool him i say and grats to you, 4 lvls lower as well=)
Majria
Majria the no pet starting rule wouldn't work in the case of a warlock, we really really need the pet for whatever use they have in a duel and they take 10 seconds to cast and are delayable. In 10 seconds a duel can be over, especially if the target is a cloth wearing low hp caster that is just standing there trying to cast something.
This reminds me a warrior of equal lvl 15, changelled me too a duel cause i was killing more troggs than him. But he told me I couldn't use my pet(15 lvl wolf) I told him that was fine as long as he didnt use his Heroic strike, rend hamstring and battle shout abilities. He wouldnt accept these terms.
Funny... noticing something from this thread that also is my personal experience... I've never had a drive-by duel invitation from a player my level or lower. It's always been someone at least a level higher. Reading this thread, seems the same for most of y'all.
Funny, that.
Funny, that.
if amyone duels me and the say no steath i will ues it anyway caues it's no rules no holds bared good old PvP
that is a very long cast time, about the same as what most pets are in EQ, thou EQ fights tend to be a lot more drawn out, guess no pets isn't that fair for you warlocks and hunters then=)
Majria
Majria
What doesnt make sense is why would you agree on fighting without these things? What warlock or hunter runs around without their pets? You'd only see this in towns, or if the warlock had run out of soul shards. With the instant casting times of buffs, what caster wouldnt be keeping their buffs on?
If you have potions that give buffs then chances are you keep them around for use before a hard battle, so in this case I guess you'd have to agree on if its a surprise battle, or one where you saw the person coming.
If you have potions that give buffs then chances are you keep them around for use before a hard battle, so in this case I guess you'd have to agree on if its a surprise battle, or one where you saw the person coming.
I think it's great that you beat him. He shouldn't be whining at all. He should be scoffed at for challenging a person 4 levels below him.
As a Hunter, I've had two instances of challenges from people wanting me to not use my pet. One was a Rogue, so I said I'd not use my pet if he'd not use his weapons. Told him I'd even remove my Axe in that case and we could go hand-to-hand... He passed.
The second was a Priest, who eventually agreed I could use my pet, but couldn't have it out at the start of the duel... I agreed, as long as he/she started with no buffs on. These terms were acceptable to both of us... Little did he/she realize that whistling for my pet is almost instant, and the pet aggros even before he finishes drawing...
In general, I say use anything you have (legally) at your disposal. I use it as a learning experience to beat you (your class) when it counts... I'm not sure I'd want to burn any major potions for a duel, but if you do, go for it. Asking any class to intentionally gimp themselves? nah...
Now, if you are doing fist-fights, it's a different story, and fun as hell to do... Pants only, no weapons, no spells, no potions, no buffs and no bandaging (natural HP regeneration only). Just a pure beat-down until someone wins. Amazing how long these fights last (and how much running around there is)...
The second was a Priest, who eventually agreed I could use my pet, but couldn't have it out at the start of the duel... I agreed, as long as he/she started with no buffs on. These terms were acceptable to both of us... Little did he/she realize that whistling for my pet is almost instant, and the pet aggros even before he finishes drawing...
In general, I say use anything you have (legally) at your disposal. I use it as a learning experience to beat you (your class) when it counts... I'm not sure I'd want to burn any major potions for a duel, but if you do, go for it. Asking any class to intentionally gimp themselves? nah...
Now, if you are doing fist-fights, it's a different story, and fun as hell to do... Pants only, no weapons, no spells, no potions, no buffs and no bandaging (natural HP regeneration only). Just a pure beat-down until someone wins. Amazing how long these fights last (and how much running around there is)...
My thought is and always has been that PvP, if you duel someone, once the duel starts, that means both parties have agreed.
The challenging person must firstly take care in who he decides to challenge.
Once terms have been agreed upon, breaking them is dishonorable. Doing so means nothing except that you know the person is an **** and he knows his word is meanningless from that point onward.
Most of the time tho, no terms are set, which means everything goes. No putting away pets, no griping over buffs or potions, no griping about stealth.
If you can't handle it, don't duel, end of story.
UR
The challenging person must firstly take care in who he decides to challenge.
Once terms have been agreed upon, breaking them is dishonorable. Doing so means nothing except that you know the person is an **** and he knows his word is meanningless from that point onward.
Most of the time tho, no terms are set, which means everything goes. No putting away pets, no griping over buffs or potions, no griping about stealth.
If you can't handle it, don't duel, end of story.
UR
In my opinion, all duels should be "no holds barred". Use what you got.. becouse in a real PvP Alliance Vs Horde scenario, I garuntee you your opponent isnt going to agree to all kinds of terms and conditions before raiding your town.
I dueled a Paladin just recenlty.. During the fight I got my combo meter up pretty high and managed to use an armor breaking finisher. After that I simply tore him up, he might as well have been wearing a linen robe.
After I defeated him, he told me that my tactic wasnt fair since I took away one of his big advantages. (Heavy armor and defence) I told him strait up "Your a Paladin, Im a Rogue.. Its your job to be honerable not mine"
He may not have liked me then, but he'll love me when my "win at all costs attitude" drives horde members out of my town, and wins us territories.
I dueled a Paladin just recenlty.. During the fight I got my combo meter up pretty high and managed to use an armor breaking finisher. After that I simply tore him up, he might as well have been wearing a linen robe.
After I defeated him, he told me that my tactic wasnt fair since I took away one of his big advantages. (Heavy armor and defence) I told him strait up "Your a Paladin, Im a Rogue.. Its your job to be honerable not mine"
He may not have liked me then, but he'll love me when my "win at all costs attitude" drives horde members out of my town, and wins us territories.
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