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#1 Nov 29 2004 at 4:00 PM Rating: Decent
At what level can one dual wield? I'm a druid in case it is class specific.
#2 Nov 29 2004 at 4:03 PM Rating: Decent
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3,210 posts
Rogue lvl 10
Hunter, Warrior lvl 20
#3 Nov 29 2004 at 4:09 PM Rating: Decent
Is that it?
#4 Nov 29 2004 at 6:46 PM Rating: Decent
Only Warriors and Rogues can dual wield.

Druids can not.
#5 Nov 29 2004 at 8:05 PM Rating: Decent
Warriors, Rogues, AND Hunters...
Not To Be An ***, Just Pointing It Out.

(and yes i know i capitalize all of my words alot, it makes feel like a BIG man! so sue me)
#6 Nov 29 2004 at 9:21 PM Rating: Default
duel wield is not that good...



duel looks good but...

25% miss added. and 50% less dmage if you are not rogue (rogue cna get talants)

15 dps 2h weapon vs 10 dps main-hand weapon + 10dps weapon


10 + (10/2)* 0.25= 11.25


so 2hand > duel hand...

but if you have 2 weapon a 2h weapon with a 15dps and a 1h weapon with 15dps. that is the only time i will used duel...

or when the duel weapons add is better then 2handed...

(main dps) + (off hand/2) * 0.25 = over all dps





Edited, Mon Nov 29 21:27:40 2004 by XvermonX
#7 Nov 29 2004 at 10:31 PM Rating: Default
i even did a culation! -_-;; boooooooooo
#8 Nov 29 2004 at 10:34 PM Rating: Good
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14,326 posts
I haven't noticed any more missing well dual weilding. Just got it and haven't experimented much, but I've noticed a large damage increase.

Besides, it just looks damn cool.
#9 Nov 29 2004 at 10:37 PM Rating: Default
i agree seomen my damage went WAY up from duel wielding with my rogue, and i havent noticed many more attacks missing or anything. 2handed<dual wiedling
#10 Nov 29 2004 at 10:37 PM Rating: Default
only your off hand will miss 25% more

and

Quote:
i agree seomen my damage went WAY up from duel wielding with my rogue, and i havent noticed many more attacks missing or anything. 2handed<dual wiedling




you are rogue... you can't use 2h weapon... and you miss less then any other class with the duuel wield

Edited, Mon Nov 29 22:38:46 2004 by XvermonX
#11 Nov 29 2004 at 11:10 PM Rating: Decent
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3,571 posts
Seoman is a hunter, and he says he hasn't noticed a difference.
#12 Nov 29 2004 at 11:31 PM Rating: Default
the main had will not miss!
the off hand will miss 25% more!

if you are figting even or higer level mob your off hand will miss alot

if you used it on a low level mob = you will not miss!
#13 Nov 30 2004 at 2:35 AM Rating: Decent
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1,494 posts
XvermonX, your post is enlightening, but the way you've stated several things are inaccurate (you're not wrong in your understanding, just how you posted it).

Quote:
25% miss added. and 50% less dmage if you are not rogue (rogue cna get talants)


That's only for the offhand weapon. Your main weapon hits just as often as ever, so going from 1H to Dual Wielded 1H is going to be an improvement in overall damage - and quite probably a significant one.

Second, your calculation:

Quote:
(main dps) + (off hand/2) * 0.25 = over all dps


The way you wrote it is wrong. Wielding two 1H weapons that are 10 DPS, using that formula, would result in a DPS of 3.75 - and I'm sure we can all agree that's not right. The proper way to write it would be:

Main DPS = X
Offhand DPS = Y

X + ((Y/2) * .25) = overall DPS
Or, in the principle of KISS:
X + (Y/8) = overall DPS

But that's not even the accurate formula, anyway. You've reduced accuracy to 25%, not 75%. The real formula is:

X + ((Y/2) * .75) - overall DPS

In our previous example of two 10 DPS weapons, the end result is 13.75 DPS - much closer to that 15 DPS hypothetical 2H weapon. And the Dual Wielded 1H weapons may be a better choice after all, since attacking more often gives more chances for critical hits and wreaks havoc with enemy spellcasting.
#14REDACTED, Posted: Nov 30 2004 at 5:39 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Well when I first got dual weild I missed a lot. Now that lvls went up I dont miss nearly as much. I was so pissed about missing but I kept with the job and now only other rogues stand a chance against me. Near my lvl range of course.
#15 Nov 30 2004 at 5:47 AM Rating: Default
[b][/b][Red][/Red]BADGER BADGER MUSHROOM MUSHROOM
#16 Nov 30 2004 at 10:59 AM Rating: Default
yes sorry !

got the 25% wrong !!!!

boooooooooooo


but i tought ppl did the "x" befor the "+" so i didn't bother to but () .... but sorry about the 0.25
#17 Nov 30 2004 at 2:56 PM Rating: Decent
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218 posts
I can understand going from a single one-handed weapon to dual wield you will certainly have a damage increase. Especially since it seems the delay isn't increased. (as is the case with FFXI.. ick)

But... I'm curious if you feel, especially for non-Rogue, going from a 2 handed axe to dual-wield axes would increase damage?

I'm only in the low teens on my hunter, but I've been keeping my axe leveled with theory I'd use dual-wielded axes once I hit 20...

Then I thought about the "instant-cast" melee moves, such as Raptor Strike, which is essentially a free swing, the extra damage from the big old 2-hand axe seems better.

With dual-wield, when you use something like Raptor Strike, does the off-hand even come into play? I seem to recall it doesn't, at least not when I played a rogue, using the Rogue's "Instant cast" moves, only the main hand seemed to do damage.
#18 Nov 30 2004 at 3:05 PM Rating: Default
I hate to say it but I use duel wield for my +11 agi... with both of my weapon I get that. :D and if i was meleeing I would use my 2handed weapon...


how ever... I am not seeing a big diffrance with +7 agi. I am trying to do max agi as a hunter (only 46+32 agi now).

it says that it helps but by how much? anyway...

Quote:
With dual-wield, when you use something like Raptor Strike, does the off-hand even come into play? I seem to recall it doesn't, at least not when I played a rogue, using the Rogue's "Instant cast" moves, only the main hand seemed to do damage.



yea it does not... it's just your main hand only. after you do it i see that you do use your off hand to hit the mob... (not sure could be just animation off)

but over all... duel is lacking :D good for stats.... bad for dps... looks good though.


edit: got new weapon

Edited, Tue Nov 30 15:15:04 2004 by XvermonX
#19 Nov 30 2004 at 3:26 PM Rating: Decent
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217 posts
In other games like D&D and Neverwinter Nights, there's often a miss rate increase when dual weilding. However in those games, you gain a higher attack speed. I think dual weilding in WoW is pointless when you're not a rogue though.
#20 Nov 30 2004 at 3:33 PM Rating: Decent
AHHHHHH stop using big numbers... my brain hurts and algerbra is not helping :P
#21 Nov 30 2004 at 3:35 PM Rating: Decent
32 posts
I also only dual wield in order to increase Agility. My average damage on my ranged weapon (as well as melee) has increased significantly as a result of my Agility bonus. Plus, I like daggers... they tend to have nice DPS.
#22 Nov 30 2004 at 3:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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242 posts
Quote:
Then I thought about the "instant-cast" melee moves, such as Raptor Strike, which is essentially a free swing, the extra damage from the big old 2-hand axe seems better.


Raptor Strike isnt a free swing though, is it? Arcane Shot is a free swing, where you still fire your regular autofire cycle PLUS the arcane shot. Raptor Strike simply occurs instead of your next regular auto-melee swing. Would be interesting to hear more discussion on this subject, my hunter is still a ways off from dual wield but i've been thinking of going 2hand axe with him.
#23 Nov 30 2004 at 3:57 PM Rating: Decent
Duel weilding is mostly for rogues. They have a talent that allows them to hit for full damage with the offhand. It's good to use vs casters, but not so great against tanks with lots of ac. Better to go 2hander in that case.
#24 Nov 30 2004 at 4:03 PM Rating: Decent
32 posts
Asurman wrote:
Quote:
Then I thought about the "instant-cast" melee moves, such as Raptor Strike, which is essentially a free swing, the extra damage from the big old 2-hand axe seems better.


Raptor Strike isnt a free swing though, is it? Arcane Shot is a free swing, where you still fire your regular autofire cycle PLUS the arcane shot. Raptor Strike simply occurs instead of your next regular auto-melee swing. Would be interesting to hear more discussion on this subject, my hunter is still a ways off from dual wield but i've been thinking of going 2hand axe with him.


I believe you are right. From my experience, Raptor Strike adds a certain amount of damage to your next melee attack (damage is based on Raptor Strike's current rank). It does not appear to be a free attack.

Edited, Tue Nov 30 16:05:30 2004 by BlainOfLlane
#25 Nov 30 2004 at 4:25 PM Rating: Decent
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218 posts
Yeah, good point, I'll have to admit I was wrong, Raptor Strike isn't a free swing... Guess I was thinking like the Sinister Strike of my Rogue, but now that you point it out, it does replace the normal swing. Smiley: frown

Although, I still think I won't give up the big roundhouse swing of the 2-hander that my Dwarf Hunter does for the Raptor Strike, if nothing else, it looks too cool.

As I get better at using my pet to hold Aggro, allowing me to stand back and blast away, I'm finding I do less and less melee fighting anyway... Smiley: grin

Does anyone else have a problem with the struggle to pick a single class to play? I have too much fun with a number of classes... Such problems... Smiley: wink
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