I'm still not quite done with FFXI, but I'd like to have a very versatile job like rdm when I do play WoW. Looks to me like...
Paladin=PLD
Warrior=WAR
Hunter=mix of BST and RNG
Mage=BLM
Priest=WHM
Rogue=THF
Druid=mix of RDM, WAR(in bear form) THF(in cat form)
Warlock=mix of SMN and DRK
Shaman=BRD/WHM
So, basically I'm thinking I'll be a Night Elf Druid. I know none of the jobs are exactly the same, it's just that FFXI is the only MMORPG I've ever played, so I need SOMEthing to compare it too ;)
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Which Class is most like RDM?^^;Follow
Well, the only thing I can think of that would compare to a RDM is the hordes shaman due to that he is very versatile and have many spells at his disposal.... also the shaman is slightly overpowered as the RDM was :P
I wouldn't say that the PLD = wow's paladdin, the paladdin in WoW is much more like the RDM in that he is more of a support fighter with his auras and spells then a tank, the tank in WoW is the warrior.
Also Druid is a support caster mainly and I myself am not a fan of the druids using their animal forms instead of casting spell and being a mob-controller.
Don't know how many times a druid have missed healing me or root a mob because he was using his leet uber dmg moves in cat form.
Otherwise you pretty much hit the spot with your FFXI-WoW comparisons ^^
Edited to say a little about the druid :PEdited to say a little about the druid :P
Edited, Fri Nov 26 05:36:31 2004 by RacialCreamer
I wouldn't say that the PLD = wow's paladdin, the paladdin in WoW is much more like the RDM in that he is more of a support fighter with his auras and spells then a tank, the tank in WoW is the warrior.
Also Druid is a support caster mainly and I myself am not a fan of the druids using their animal forms instead of casting spell and being a mob-controller.
Don't know how many times a druid have missed healing me or root a mob because he was using his leet uber dmg moves in cat form.
Otherwise you pretty much hit the spot with your FFXI-WoW comparisons ^^
Edited to say a little about the druid :PEdited to say a little about the druid :P
Edited, Fri Nov 26 05:36:31 2004 by RacialCreamer
Actually,... I think the only thing Accutare is, WHM almost is like Priest. WoW Gameplay is just too different to compare the jobs like this. I promise you, you will be dissapointed if you come to wow looking for a FFXI RDM. That being said. WoW Is great fun, and like the poster above if you want versitility, I'd say Druid,.. you get healing and offensive magic, and you melee in the form of animals.
None of them, this isn't FFXI. so STFU.
Quote:
I wouldn't say that the PLD = wow's paladdin, the paladdin in WoW is much more like the RDM in that he is more of a support fighter with his auras and spells then a tank, the tank in WoW is the warrior.
Disagreeing there. WoW's Paladin is more like a bard/warrior/white mage: auras to buff the party and heals to support and gain hate. They can also be focused on damage, also. Keep in mind that with the new paladin changes, the player can pretty much focus paladins into a role on their own. Lets try not to begin the cookie cutter deal, here...
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Also Druid is a support caster mainly and I myself am not a fan of the druids using their animal forms instead of casting spell and being a mob-controller.
Don't know how many times a druid have missed healing me or root a mob because he was using his leet uber dmg moves in cat form.
Don't know how many times a druid have missed healing me or root a mob because he was using his leet uber dmg moves in cat form.
Again, you are fitting another class into a cookie cutter role. Druids are hybrids, not primaries. Primaries have something that they will always be best at, like a priest's heal. Hybrids help support the party by bringing something over what can be very useful, like the paladin's high def/heals and druid's shapeshifting to fill a gap in a party.
If you had problems with a druid healing, then you need to remind yourself that it's not the druid's primary role to heal. For that you get a priest. If you do plan on using a druid as a healer, ask the druid first instead of expecting it from them. If you want mob control, you get a mage or a hunter.
Keep in mind about the differences of primaries and hybrids. WoW is much different then most MMOs because the cookie cutter model just doesn't cut it anymore. I have seen warriors do crazy damage (more then rogue) in berserk mode and I have seen druids tank just fine. Just create your character, see what he can do and do it as long as it's possible and makes sense.
As for FFXI jobs vs WoW classes, there is no real way to compare them because of abilities and traits unique to WoW thst FFXI will never have.
#6REDACTED,
Posted: Nov 26 2004 at 7:48 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I am afraid that my fear were real.
Quote:
I am afraid that my fear were real.
WoW is made by Blizzard wich as attracted tons of young kids. Its impossible to not see at least 1 stupid flame from a kids per day on this forum.
Sadly that EQ have been made for no life player bcuz I wil miss a game that were played rarely by player under 18 years old. At very least 16.
WoW is made by Blizzard wich as attracted tons of young kids. Its impossible to not see at least 1 stupid flame from a kids per day on this forum.
Sadly that EQ have been made for no life player bcuz I wil miss a game that were played rarely by player under 18 years old. At very least 16.
Sorry but you are generalizing communities. There are as much "kiddies" in other games such as EQ, DAoC and FFXI. Lets stop jumping to conclusions and try thinking rationally, eh?
True redmoon, very true. However that is how I saw those classes mainly being used, I'm by no means trying to make up a cookie cutter choice of jobs.
You cannot deny that most WARs are being used to tank, Rogues being used to dish out insane DPS and mage/druid being crowd controllers aswell as priests/druids functioning very well as healers.
That is how I have seen most ppl chose to play their respective roles in PT situations, granted I only played till lvl 30 I may be very wrong in many of these departments.
WoW do however enable you in many ways, not every way tho, to customize your job into how you want it to be.
And the druid I'm talking about missing heals had been told very specifically to be a healer since there were no priests available at that time.
I've only played Rogue myself but my friends have all played the other classes to about Lv. 39 so I have SOME understanding on how it could be considered WISE to use your char.
That being said a Rogue would get owned trying to tank any longer of a time and the healers would get hate fairly fast trying to keep the rogue alive.
Aswell as a Priest trying to be main dmg dealer could be considered an unwise way to go with that job.
That being said you are expected to play your job in a certain kind of way depending on which way you went down talent tree hence even in WoW there is a FORM of cookie-cutter jobs.
Nowhere near the cookie cutter jobs of FFXI tho ;)
You cannot deny that most WARs are being used to tank, Rogues being used to dish out insane DPS and mage/druid being crowd controllers aswell as priests/druids functioning very well as healers.
That is how I have seen most ppl chose to play their respective roles in PT situations, granted I only played till lvl 30 I may be very wrong in many of these departments.
WoW do however enable you in many ways, not every way tho, to customize your job into how you want it to be.
And the druid I'm talking about missing heals had been told very specifically to be a healer since there were no priests available at that time.
I've only played Rogue myself but my friends have all played the other classes to about Lv. 39 so I have SOME understanding on how it could be considered WISE to use your char.
That being said a Rogue would get owned trying to tank any longer of a time and the healers would get hate fairly fast trying to keep the rogue alive.
Aswell as a Priest trying to be main dmg dealer could be considered an unwise way to go with that job.
That being said you are expected to play your job in a certain kind of way depending on which way you went down talent tree hence even in WoW there is a FORM of cookie-cutter jobs.
Nowhere near the cookie cutter jobs of FFXI tho ;)
[Galka] [Sausage] [Do you need it] [Mithra] [hole] [can I have it]
Does that ring a bell.
Edited, Fri Nov 26 08:10:47 2004 by LordZanon
Does that ring a bell.
Edited, Fri Nov 26 08:10:47 2004 by LordZanon
It seems to me like a lot of this "cookie cutter-ness," or lack thereof, you both seem to be dancing around is more a matter of age (of the game).
In FFXI you can be a NIN/RDM that's a melee damage dealer and a debuffer. And you can make a DRK/BLM that uses more spells than usual.
In WoW, you can be a Rogue that tanks, or you can be a Priest that does damage-dealing.
They're absolutely possible in each case. In fact, it's also possible to reach the maximum level in each game with each choice. But FFXI is over two years old, and people have figured out which combinations have the best results and are most desired by parties. WoW is new, and most people have the sense that they can do whatever they want (myself included, I like new games for this reason), but I don't think it's all that much less cookie-cutter as far as the ways the system lets you change things.
In FFXI you can be a NIN/RDM that's a melee damage dealer and a debuffer. And you can make a DRK/BLM that uses more spells than usual.
In WoW, you can be a Rogue that tanks, or you can be a Priest that does damage-dealing.
They're absolutely possible in each case. In fact, it's also possible to reach the maximum level in each game with each choice. But FFXI is over two years old, and people have figured out which combinations have the best results and are most desired by parties. WoW is new, and most people have the sense that they can do whatever they want (myself included, I like new games for this reason), but I don't think it's all that much less cookie-cutter as far as the ways the system lets you change things.
Please, for all that is holy, stop comparing the game to FFXI. FFXI sets up so you are forced to join a party while WoW gives you more freedom how you should develop your character.
Example:
FFXI: Red mages have a B rating in swords, White Mage has a failing rating in elemental magic and warriors have a A rating in G Axes. This forces the player to play a certain way.
WoW: There is no ratings, only restrictions on what class can use what. As long as they keep the skill high, they have the same chance of success as the next person at the same level. Keep in mind that Blizzard set it up so all classes can solo. This results in all classes being flexible.
FFXI had cookie cutter galore not because of the time people spent playing the game. It was cookie cutter because the game forced them to play the ol' game of trail and error.
WoW is different, allowing the player to spec their character talent wise and helps personalize their creation. Also keep in mind that the devs split up the classes into 3 parts: Melee, casters and hybrids. We can look at this and basically say what class goes where and what is better then what so thats a no brainer.
The big puzzle that most is missing is this: hybrids play differently then melee and casters. They have roles, not just one role. A paladin can tank as well as deal damage while healing. A druid can do the very same, changing in and out of forms. Shamans use totems to finalize what they plan to do during combat, whether its nuking or healing. Melees and casters already have a one track mind on what they want to do and they do it better then hybrids. Hybrids, however, can do various things and can also focus on one aspect and run with it.
This is the most free flowing class system I've seen outside of CoH so lets keep it that way. There is no way in hell the class system in this game is even comparable to FFXI, which focuses on the party and roles.
/rant off
Oh, and yes, priests, once shadow specced out, can come close to rival mages as casting damage dealers. The only difference is that mages still has the one up on priests AoE wise. As long as a priest heals and you're alive, if s/he nuking, let him/her be. If the go overboard...oh well, get a new priest. More freedom then what I can say about FFXI ;P
Example:
FFXI: Red mages have a B rating in swords, White Mage has a failing rating in elemental magic and warriors have a A rating in G Axes. This forces the player to play a certain way.
WoW: There is no ratings, only restrictions on what class can use what. As long as they keep the skill high, they have the same chance of success as the next person at the same level. Keep in mind that Blizzard set it up so all classes can solo. This results in all classes being flexible.
FFXI had cookie cutter galore not because of the time people spent playing the game. It was cookie cutter because the game forced them to play the ol' game of trail and error.
WoW is different, allowing the player to spec their character talent wise and helps personalize their creation. Also keep in mind that the devs split up the classes into 3 parts: Melee, casters and hybrids. We can look at this and basically say what class goes where and what is better then what so thats a no brainer.
The big puzzle that most is missing is this: hybrids play differently then melee and casters. They have roles, not just one role. A paladin can tank as well as deal damage while healing. A druid can do the very same, changing in and out of forms. Shamans use totems to finalize what they plan to do during combat, whether its nuking or healing. Melees and casters already have a one track mind on what they want to do and they do it better then hybrids. Hybrids, however, can do various things and can also focus on one aspect and run with it.
This is the most free flowing class system I've seen outside of CoH so lets keep it that way. There is no way in hell the class system in this game is even comparable to FFXI, which focuses on the party and roles.
/rant off
Oh, and yes, priests, once shadow specced out, can come close to rival mages as casting damage dealers. The only difference is that mages still has the one up on priests AoE wise. As long as a priest heals and you're alive, if s/he nuking, let him/her be. If the go overboard...oh well, get a new priest. More freedom then what I can say about FFXI ;P
Aside from the fact that cookie cutter jobs are not a part of WoW, there is also something about the priest. People should really read things such as this
<Priests lead the many faiths spread throughout the disparate lands of the world of Azeroth. In Kalimdor, Night Elf Priestesses revere the moon goddess Elune, while Dwarven priests in Khaz Modan deliver the message of the Light to their people. In the ruins of Lordaeron, the undead priests of the Forsaken, their faith twisted and tainted by their tortured existences, spread a dark interpretation of the Holy Light. Regardless of their faith, however, all Priests share in their ability to manipulate the minds of those who turn to them for spiritual guidance.>
Even if in Warcraft the RTS the priests were simply healers, they have evolved in WoW To become manipulators of the light and the people. Although they can still heal very effectively, this becomes a perfect example of how blizzard attempts to veer away from the fearful FFXI cookie cutter syndrome.
In Closing, WoW Classes Does not = FFXI classes, and Priest very much does not = whm.
<Priests lead the many faiths spread throughout the disparate lands of the world of Azeroth. In Kalimdor, Night Elf Priestesses revere the moon goddess Elune, while Dwarven priests in Khaz Modan deliver the message of the Light to their people. In the ruins of Lordaeron, the undead priests of the Forsaken, their faith twisted and tainted by their tortured existences, spread a dark interpretation of the Holy Light. Regardless of their faith, however, all Priests share in their ability to manipulate the minds of those who turn to them for spiritual guidance.>
Even if in Warcraft the RTS the priests were simply healers, they have evolved in WoW To become manipulators of the light and the people. Although they can still heal very effectively, this becomes a perfect example of how blizzard attempts to veer away from the fearful FFXI cookie cutter syndrome.
In Closing, WoW Classes Does not = FFXI classes, and Priest very much does not = whm.
WoW shares only a few similarities with FFXI such as :
1. It is a MMORPG
2. It has people playing in it ( although one is losing more in population while the other is added a couple dozen servers in its 2nd day >.> )
3. It has classes (WoW) and jobs (FFXI) with the same name such as Warrior, Paladin, etc...
But now to the gameplay... you can be completely independant in WoW of other job classes because you can solo and do it efficiently. Trust a hunter who has a pet cat ^^b
Each class whether it be mage, priest, warrior or hunter can do things their own way and if you wanna group up, you can. WoW made it so that it doesn't follow the "traditional model" in playing a certain type of class/job.
1. It is a MMORPG
2. It has people playing in it ( although one is losing more in population while the other is added a couple dozen servers in its 2nd day >.> )
3. It has classes (WoW) and jobs (FFXI) with the same name such as Warrior, Paladin, etc...
But now to the gameplay... you can be completely independant in WoW of other job classes because you can solo and do it efficiently. Trust a hunter who has a pet cat ^^b
Each class whether it be mage, priest, warrior or hunter can do things their own way and if you wanna group up, you can. WoW made it so that it doesn't follow the "traditional model" in playing a certain type of class/job.
Even though I despise FFXI and its fanboys, I would say that Shaman is most like Red Mage. The shaman can do well with spells and temporary melee.
Nimra wrote:
Quote:
None of them, this isn't FFXI. so STFU.
I am afraid that my fear were real.
WoW is made by Blizzard wich as attracted tons of young kids. Its impossible to not see at least 1 stupid flame from a kids per day on this forum.
Sadly that EQ have been made for no life player bcuz I wil miss a game that were played rarely by player under 18 years old. At very least 16.
That's weird, most of the people I've been playing with are low-20s and older. Myself, I'm 30 and love WoW.
Noobs and leets are found in every game. Just have to learn to be the bigger gamer and ignore them.
I think I prefer the FFXI model. (haven't played wow, and feel free to explain why Im wrong, but you should not assume you are not a ****** because you find my thoughts shocking)
1. ffxi is not cookie cutter by design. Social norms and expectations make it so. The community readily accepts the roles they understand, but many creative job combos are effectively playable.
2. Retards dominate every game, and it is a mere matter of time until expected roles become defined, and retards follow the cookie cutter recipes developed for them.
3. While you can balance a job as u wish in Wow, you are effectively locked in to your skill tree choices, or pay massive amounts to undo them. The FFXI model is much better. Sell and change and skill up a new weapon to change, or level a different sub. Easily switch between PvP character setups, BCNM setups, and normal xp setups. In WoW, you can choose a gimp xp setup and are free to solo or leech xp from parties, while u focus ahead on ur lvl 60 role instead of ur current effectiveness.
1. ffxi is not cookie cutter by design. Social norms and expectations make it so. The community readily accepts the roles they understand, but many creative job combos are effectively playable.
2. Retards dominate every game, and it is a mere matter of time until expected roles become defined, and retards follow the cookie cutter recipes developed for them.
3. While you can balance a job as u wish in Wow, you are effectively locked in to your skill tree choices, or pay massive amounts to undo them. The FFXI model is much better. Sell and change and skill up a new weapon to change, or level a different sub. Easily switch between PvP character setups, BCNM setups, and normal xp setups. In WoW, you can choose a gimp xp setup and are free to solo or leech xp from parties, while u focus ahead on ur lvl 60 role instead of ur current effectiveness.
Quote:
Please, for all that is holy, stop comparing the game to FFXI.
Then please, don't post in this thread.
Quote:
I know none of the jobs are exactly the same, it's just that FFXI is the only MMORPG I've ever played, so I need SOMEthing to compare it too ;)
That's the subject of this post, and though I got a little off-topic posting about how games become cookie-cutter over time (trust me, they all do, and this one will too, not for the soloing part, but for parties and raids and things, it will), I hardly think you have the right to hijack this thread and turn it into post no.35234890535602345060456 about why FFXI suxx0rz and WoW r0xx0rz.
The OP asked specifically for comparisons and reasons for drawing comparisons. We don't need thought police here. (However, I didn't rate you down; I don't want this to turn into the FFXI board.)
Anyway, I'm sorry for commenting on something I've seen in every single MMORPG in existence, even those with systems that are more flexible than WoW's system, because it's screwed up this thread. I'll try to make up for it with the following....
I think that what's been said about Priest and Druid is pretty much right, but it depends on what part of RDM you thought was fun which job I think you'll enjoy more, rather than what it looks like cosmetically (unless you liked RDM cosmetically :P).
If you want to focus on the ability to both heal damage and take it, then Priest or Druid is probably the way to go. It seems like Priest leans much more toward healing though, and a Druid is actually listed as a hybrid class.
I'd like to add something no one has as far as I've seen though. I play Warlock, because I like pet classes in MMORPGs, but really, once you get past the fact that you have a pet and aren't exactly solo, it plays a lot like RDM. Warlocks have a lot of debuffs, like RDM, and you start battles by casting many of them, much like a RDM, and it seems to take a little precedence over their direct damage spells. Also, they don't have any healing magic, but they do have different pets, each of which is used for different situations, making them quite versatile outside the realm of healing (which they can only accomplish with a few items that they can create).
So basically, if you want a healing-type RDM, I'd say go for Druid, but if you want a debuffing-type with a little damage, and a little of other things in the form of pets, go with Warlock. Also, WoW lets you create quite a few characters, so if you don't trust any of us, I'd say create one Druid, one Priest, one Shaman, one Warlock, and one Paladin, and see which one is the most fun.
Quote:
Quote:
Please, for all that is holy, stop comparing the game to FFXI.
Then please, don't post in this thread.
Please, for all that is holy, stop comparing the game to FFXI.
Then please, don't post in this thread.
That was directed at you, not the OP.
Quote:
That's the subject of this post, and though I got a little off-topic posting about how games become cookie-cutter over time (trust me, they all do, and this one will too, not for the soloing part, but for parties and raids and things, it will), I hardly think you have the right to hijack this thread and turn it into post no.35234890535602345060456 about why FFXI suxx0rz and WoW r0xx0rz.
I didn't hijack to oppose what the OP was trying to achieve. I have never said once that FFXI sucked in this thread, though I will go out of my say that it does ;P You, I believe, stated that the game is as cookie cutter as FFXI and I stated that no, it is not. Evene while a class has a primary role, each class has enough secondary abilities from being so one tracked. Warriors have debuff moves, Priests have damaging and debuffing abilities that are worth casting, rogues can both deal their damage and control, mages can control add ons and deal the most damage magic wise. If the primary classes are this free, imagine the hybrids. Hell, even a warlock can heal...
The point I'm trying to get across is this: FFXI and WoW are nowhere near alike. In FFXI, warriors are provoke bots, white mages are heal bots, all melees can go out and take a **** while fighting and it really gets boring. Red mage and bard were the only classes that had things to do but when a battle is under control, its the same thing over and over again.
In WoW, warriors provoke as well as debuff the monster using abilities such as rend and hamstring. Priests have DoT and single target nukes that can do tons of damage. Mages control the battle by polymorphing and frost novaing, add to the fact they can support the party with heavy damage and food/drink.
As for the person that said that FFXI wasn't cookie cutter by design, all I have to do is point to the rating system.
I'm already loving hunter, but still not sure if hunter or rouge.
Wich one of both are less common?
Wich one of both are less common?
Quote:
You, I believe, stated that the game is as cookie cutter as FFXI and I stated that no, it is not.
No, I said that this game has about the same potential to be cookie cutter as FFXI did, and that it's not cookie cutter now because it's new. I pointed out that you can be as different and varied in FFXI as you can be in WoW. You want to be a Warrior that can debuff, well, you can. But is a Warrior going to be as good at it as a RDM? No, and a Warrior in WoW isn't going to be as good at it as a Warlock is either.
What I'm saying is that this idea of things being "cookie cutter" isn't really about the game design. It's about people wanting to get the absolute most out of their character. This is not just an issue with FFXI, which you seem to have personal issues against. Every time anyone on this board says something about it, you have to jump on them and talk about how great WoW is and how terrible FFXI is. You know what they call those people? They call them trolls. WoW is great, but it's not the first MMORPG to come into existence, and comparisons (or, as is often the case, contrasts) are natural.
I could just as easily talk about how people became "cookie cutter" in AC2 and SWG, and they both had quite a bit more options for customizing than WoW. I'm saying that, given time, people will find out what works very well, and many people will copy them, and that's where this comes from - not from the way the game is built, but from its players.
#21REDACTED,
Posted: Nov 26 2004 at 9:03 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) stop relating this game to FFXI you sad ****** and just go **** yourself with a tube sock. *Owned*
Darn, almost rated all your posts down, oh well, complete for now.
#23REDACTED,
Posted: Nov 26 2004 at 9:06 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) and you get kicks from "rating my posts down" good luck in life.
Hmm...I fail to see how me rating down a useless troll has anything to do with how well im doing in life. Go back to talking with your sock.
#25REDACTED,
Posted: Nov 26 2004 at 9:11 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) a fail to see how calling me a "troll" is insulting to anyone but yourself for thinking up such a terrible insult.
Not my fault you cant understand anything besides gay and fart jokes.
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