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questions for Druid.....Follow

#1 Nov 20 2004 at 8:56 PM Rating: Decent
i hav some question for druid:
*when druid transform into Bear form; is it strong enough to be a meat sheld in a gorup?
*when transform in cat form; is the damage enough to be a damager in a group?
*what weapon is best for druid? staff or mace??
*should i learn [skinin, leather workin] or [herballism, alchemy]?

i played warrior in OB, but its kinda borin. so i wana try driud this time.
druid is definately more intrestin than warrior isn't it?
thank u^^"
#2 Nov 20 2004 at 9:06 PM Rating: Decent
40 posts
Yes you can be a meat sheild and a good damage dealer. Depending on your play style, casting and healing, or bear/cat, id say maces for casting and healing just in case you get into a melle situation, and for Cat/Bear use a staff for the nice bonuses.

always glad to help
#3 Nov 20 2004 at 10:32 PM Rating: Decent
so u mean........
i can only chose to be a caster, healer or bear/cat ~"~?
but, can i b both~"~
cuz i only pay money to learn skills isn't it?

and what weapon should i get if i'm goin for both caster, healer and bear/cat.
#4 Nov 20 2004 at 10:33 PM Rating: Default
Druid is a class that can be a bit of everything (hybrid), but not all at the same time.
#5 Nov 20 2004 at 10:36 PM Rating: Decent
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113 posts
the talents are what distinguish you between caster, healer and forms.

You can evenly distribute your talents among all 3 schools, but then you'll just be mediocre in them all. It's arguably better to choose just 2 to sink your points into.
#6 Nov 20 2004 at 10:56 PM Rating: Decent
Oooooooo
i got it.....
i'll focus the talents on feral and healin/buffs then......

and one more question~"~
it's the weapon i'm using which is effecting the damage when i transform to bear/cat right?
so...should i get a stronger weapon like mace instead of staff?

after all, i wana b more like a magic warrior. i can b both warrior, rogue. heal myself and get buffs. and cast attackin spells when needed.

Edited, Sat Nov 20 23:01:23 2004 by Zorkan
#7 Nov 20 2004 at 11:12 PM Rating: Decent
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113 posts
I'm not 100% sure about this (i didn't try druid in the beta), but I think weapon damage has nothing to do with your damage in beast form.
You're looking for a weapon to give you +stats because those will still be active when you're in beast form.
#8 Nov 20 2004 at 11:36 PM Rating: Decent
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57 posts
i have another question about druids. does it cost mana to switch to a animal form? does it cost mana to stay as a animal form to?
#9 Nov 20 2004 at 11:53 PM Rating: Decent
so what stats should i focus on?
i think i'll perfer stamina and STR.....
i dont really need a lot of spirit and intelligence right?
#10 Nov 21 2004 at 12:18 AM Rating: Decent
Yes kevinG it does cost mana to switch forms...this is one of the many things that is "not right" with the druid and its supposed versatility imo...i hope druid gets a little more lovin soon...:(

oh and you can stay in animal form as long as u want but cant talk to npcs or use items and can only use that form's abilities

Edited, Sun Nov 21 00:19:09 2004 by Swgstinks
#11 Nov 21 2004 at 12:22 AM Rating: Decent
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113 posts
...but you can still skin animals and herbalize (is that a word? no?) while in beast form. Which is good if you want to just stay in form between battles.

Edited, Sun Nov 21 00:23:02 2004 by Halloween
#12 Nov 21 2004 at 12:53 AM Rating: Good
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71 posts
if you're playing as a ne you will need to focus on str, agil, int, and even spirit. if you're a tauren, then i would suggest that you focus on stamina instead of agility. you'll need str as a bear to accrue the damage you need to hold hate as your taunt alone simply doesn't do it well enough; you'll of course need str as a cat to be an effective dd. agil helps decrease the overall damage you'll take as a ne, and sta will of course increase the amount of punishment you can take.

switching into your forms does cost mana, and that mana cost increases with your level (as does the bonuses granted by your cat and bear forms) and your mp increase at each level does not scale equally with your animal form's cost increase. furthermore, if you're shifting between forms to attack, tank and heal, you'll need to keep in mind that at higher levels your healing spells will be costing more and more mana. so being able to switch effectively between your caster form to heal yourself and others, and then back to your animal form requires that you pay a lot of attention to intellect. for example: a rank four (or five, i can't remember) healing touch costs something like 185 mana at the level at which you can first buy it and your bear and cat forms cost about the same. you encounter x mob, shift into one form or another for about 180 mana, draw a considerable amount of damage, shift out and heal for about 180 mana, while you are still in the hole from that first shift for about 100 mana, and then shift back again for about 180 mana. at the end of this process you are fully healed and back in animal form, but with little to no rage or energy, and now in the mana hole for about 500 mana... which is probably over half your mana. so you really can't shift, heal, shift more than twice in a fight... casting combat spells like moonfire/starfire/wrath/roots(arguably a combat spell) in any combination of the two will put you in the hole even more (you should be casting at least two because shifting to cast just one of these spells on anything but a running mob is wildly inefficient as no single one of them do as much damage outright or over time as your animal forms do in the same amount of time).

as a side note, focussing on just restoration and feral talents will leave you hurting if you plan to do a lot of shuffling between forms: swiftshifting (i think it's called) is a balance talent and requires something like five (or more) points in balance before you can outlay the first of three points for it. while a druid that shuffles alot between forms is doable without swiftshifting, you are gimping yourself: at each shift you are left with a little less than three seconds or so of cooldown before you can cast a healing spell or use that animal's ability, and three points in swiftshifting cuts this down to about half a second.

focussing heavily on spirit helps alot with hp and mp management. in fact, one of the hardest things about playing a druid between lvls 15-25 is knowing exactly when you have to shift to heal yourself; you have to know when you'll have enough mp to shift back to caster form to cast a few healing spells and shift back into animal form, and you need to be able to judge how long your hp will hold out before you need a healing touch or similar spell. boosting spirit means that when in animal form you are gaining mp that much more quickly.

as far as what weapon to aim for... i would advocate that, even as early as lvl 16 or so, you try to keep two sets of some items, especially weapons, so that you can have a str, agil/sta set and a spirit, int set. for the alliance, the staff of westfall (the "defeat vc" award: http://wow.allakhazam.com/item.html?witem=2042) is ideal at early levels for spirit and int. honestly, i relied on armor to boost stats more than weapons, and i found that the dps outlay difference between daggers, staves, fistweapons, one-, and two- handed weapons to be more or less negligable, given that my dps usually did about twice the damage i was dishing out through a combo of thorns+(roots/entangling if outside)+weakening buffs (faerie fire or demoralizing shout)+moonfire... my dps was important but i just couldn't compete witth a mob of my levl or higher, in many cases without first throwing that combo on it.

and as far as i know your weapon seems to effect your dps, but not too greatly: your damage in cat and bear form is always the same. that is, you will always deal damage in the median of the range described in your character info. i have never actually tried to figure this one out exactly... but given that your attack power and dps are effected by your weapons, and that your bear and cat form seem to take your character+weapon dps and power to calculate their base damage (before the bear and cat +power bonus) i would guess that your weapon does effect your animal form's dps as well.

EDIT: i don't mean to deter anyone from playing as a druid. i'll be a druid come tues, and i want to take it all the way to 60. what i like so much about a druid is that it requires a lot of planning and attention, not that any other class doesn't in one way or another... but there is no time when i was playing as my druid that i could just tool about from one mob to the other w/o paying any attention.

as far as talents go, i went for skinning/leatherworking. herbalism/alchemy would be another great way to work it, but my thinking was: the items i make to wear as a leatherworker are always in effect, but i can only quaff a potion if i'm in caster form (granted plenty of potions have enduring effects).

and no... i disagree that the mana cost for shifting is somehow "not right" with the druid. if i could shift for free, i would become, imho, too powerful. the cost seems right on, you just have to learn to like, or at least abide by, the sort of mp and hp management that it requires. i think the druid is meant to be more of a support class; though i could handle some time on the frontlines, i couldn't do it like a rogue or a warrior could, and i certainly couldn't do it for long: the druid has neither the agility bonus of the rogue nor the armor/sta of the warrior and so has to be able to disengage quickly and entirely from combat to heal... i would never dare to be a tank, say in the stockades until i was at least a lvl 35, if not a 40 (the stockades is an instance in sw w/ lvl22-29 elites).

second edit for clarity, spelling.

Edited, Sun Nov 21 01:04:48 2004 by sheapearce

Edited, Sun Nov 21 01:58:05 2004 by sheapearce
#13 Nov 21 2004 at 1:33 AM Rating: Decent
I've done literally TONS of research on Dragoon *cough*, I mean Druids. (Whipping boy inside joke.)

Before the main WoW forums were shut down, there was a lot of complaining about Druids by those who had played them into the highest levels. As a matter of fact only about 1 in 5 said that they would play this class again upon release.

I'm absolutely not knocking this class, and understand that this information comes to me second hand, but the main complaints against druids were:

1) Having to carry 3 different sets of armor at all times. 1 for cat, 1 for bear, and one for biped/caster.

2) Mana cost to switch into animal forms, and lack of ability to switch animal forms without switching back to caster form first.

3) Bear Armor Rating is based off of player Armor rating. Druids only get access to leather armor over their entire careers. This means that even while in the advanced version of bear form (Dire Bear form) the Druid will only achieve an armor rating of somewhere around 2500. Warriors have access to shields alone that offer more than 2500 armor.

4) Cat form offers no finishing moves like the regular rogue class.

5) Some druid spells like Entangling roots are not usable indoors or in instanced dungeons. This makes Druids sometimes less desireable in these situations.

6) A lackluster talent tree, compared to other classes. ie. Silence for Priests.


There were others, but these were almost unanimous throughout the entire Druid community, particularily those that played the class to cap. Hopefully this can help you make an informed decision.


-$.02
#14 Nov 21 2004 at 1:43 AM Rating: Decent
17 posts
When I was druid, I concentrated mostly on being a caster. I put all my talents into restoration and nature spells. I also had nothing but INT, Spirit and stam gear. Mostly INT, because I found that more MP has saved me more than more HP (considering I concentrated more on casting.

I didn't bother with feral combat, mainly because of the armor nerf. The only time I use cat form is to stealth through horde raids, and tough areas. Also I use it to dash from an enemy who might be too strong. I think bear form is the one form I use very rarely, because PLD's and Warriors will always have a lot more armor than I will. And in most cases, HP as well.
#15 Nov 21 2004 at 1:48 AM Rating: Decent
I actually played a druid till level 22, and with that I will answer some of Palison's statements. I will only comment on a couple, the rest I agree on.

About the armour problem, I for one never had this problem. Bear form does add an extra 200 health and increase in attack. Expecially in cat form, which does fine on its own without having any armour bonuses (and cat form isnt for tanking, so no need to really worry about armour).


Cat form DOES have finishing moves. The first one you get is Rip. Although cat form can never truely be as good as the original Rogue untill later levels.


#16 Nov 21 2004 at 1:53 AM Rating: Decent
I hear ya Loupokami,


That was a good post. I agree that Druids are pretty good casters, MOTW is just a godly buff from the looks of it, especially if you spec it.

My only problem is that although I don't mind being a backup or even main healer, it's the animal forms that really set a druid apart from everyone else.

This class had the potential to be so versatile, that I'm kind of turned off just seeing them used in a healer only type of way. I dunno, I originally wanted to play a druid at release, but unless they get some tweaks I'm probably going to play shaman or priest.


-$.02
#17 Nov 21 2004 at 2:09 AM Rating: Decent
Good call Ellidyr,

You're right about the armor. I too didn't notice the armor problem at my level. The comments I was referring to were from players who were for the most part capped.

From what I understand the bear form armor really isn't that big of an issue until level 40, when Warrior/Paladin get plate armor, Shaman get mail armor, and Druid get Dire Bear form. This is where Druids bear form starts to fall behind in terms of AR because Druids never go beyond leather.

As far as cat form is concerned,

Rogue Finishing Moves = Eviscerate, Expose Armor, Kidney Shot, Rubture, and Slice and Dice

Cat Form Finishing Moves = Rip

Now I in no way feel that Cat form should be equally effective as rogue, but I do think it needs a bit of an upgrade. Rogues get all kinds of nifty extra abilities like lockpick, and sap which will always make them worthwile to have in your group.

Rip is Cat Forms only Finishing move, and it's a DOT at that. I don't think increasing Cat Forms effectiveness in battle by adding a couple more burst damage FM's would overpower the class at all.

Anyhow it's just all stuff I've gathered over time.


-$.02
#18 Nov 21 2004 at 2:18 AM Rating: Decent
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71 posts
please do not think that a druid can only be a caster. we certainly cannot take or deal damage like the classes we ape, but we can help in those areas in a pinch, and our capacity to do so really helps us when soloing. i took my druid to lvl 28 pretty quickly (i stopped focussing on lvling at about, 17) and with little difficulties, and i was rarely just a "healer" in a group.
as a hybrid, the role a druid plays in a group is always interesting, as hybrid mostly=middling skill as compared to x class. we can't heal/rez like pallys or priests (sorry for the alliance bias: my two 20+ characters where a dwarf and ne), we can't nuke like a mage, we can't tank like a warrior, and we can't be dds like rogues. but we can do some of each of these things, and do them not quite like our "parent" classes: a lvl 20 druid doesn't nuke like a lvl 14 mage or tank like a lvl 14 warrior, nor is the lvl 20 druid's skills in these areas just dupes of lvl 14 versions from the parent class. i found that it was often my druid that turned the tables on every close battle my group faced b/c i could analyze the situation and respond accordingly.

the class is still really versatile. the bulk of my first post suggested something i had found more or less true when playing as a druid: the balance talent line should not/can not be neglected. you can be a restoration/balance druid, a feral/balance druid, a balance/restoration druid, or a balance/feral druid, but even with the mp help in the restoration line, grouping feral and restoration talents still left you banging your head against a mana wall. balance is, in effect, a "versatile tree." look no further than the "omen of clarity" and "weapon specilization" (or whatever it was called) line of that tree... the omen gives you a chance to cast a healing/dd spell for free after you've hit a mob, and the weapon spec increases your skill with your weapons. this would come in handy both as a tank/dd (when you have to shift out to heal, as you almost certainly will have to do at some point) and as a straight-up healer.

that said, i still think a restoration/feral druid is doable, just that you are going to be frustrated a lot. WoW seems a really forgiving game, insofar as the amount of stat boosting it affords early in the game... but in my experience it's really hard to find items that give you the armor and attack you need to be a cat or bear and the intellect to switch into caster form to get your heal on.
#19 Nov 21 2004 at 2:20 AM Rating: Decent
17 posts
I will admit, bear form shines in low levels. 2 druids can tank while the rest of the team whacks away at the mob. When I hit level 20, I hardly used bear form at all. I almost forgot about water form, very useful. There was a time I attacking npcs near camp Narache, and a bunch of low levels ganged up on me, so I jumped into the lake, outswam them, then used catform when I was on the bottom to hide, until breath was running low.

by the time I hit level 28, I figured my casting was needed more in instances. More MP means more heals. Unfortunately, when I'd heal too much, all the hate went my way. It seemed I would be the only one in my party to die, but the team won just from the finishing heals. When I would have most of the mobs hitting me, I would quit healing and use bear form to take the hits and by the team some time. I'd usually end up dying, because natures grasp doesn't work indoors (which I think needs to be fixed). I never specialized in feral combat, so I'd like to know if anyone level 25+ actually found some use for bear form, other than taking the last hits and buying time.
#20 Nov 21 2004 at 4:31 AM Rating: Decent
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237 posts
I played a druid to 23 during open beta, and was lucky enough to meet two good people who had taken druid to cap during closed beta.

To sum it up short and simple: Druids are broken.

Since our armor does affect our tanking ability, we can't be decent tanks at higher levels. We're limited to leather armor, and it just cannot compete.

Our weapon does <b>not</b> have an effect on our bear or cat form damage. This really begins to make druids fall behind in later levels, since the melee classes are able to get better weapons to increase their base damage, and our forms don't.

Druid spells start requiring more mana in a higher scale than you will recieve for leveling. End result is that at higher levels you can cast fewer spells, and those spells are of reduced effect anyway. You can't damage like a mage, and you can't heal like a priest.

In my experience during open beta, druid was a fun class to play -it takes a lot of strategy and timing to play well - but I simply couldn't keep up with my teammates. When a character of any class could easily take on two (sometimes 3) even match mobs, and still come out alive, my poor druid would be beaten to a pulp nearly instantly.

I still want to play a druid, but I'm waiting until Blizzard fixes the class a bit more before I'll touch it again. Apparently, Druid has not recieved more than minor tweaks in the last 3-4 months, and many of the druid players are extremely upset about this.

I'd recommend Hunter if you want a class that requires some strategy and action (and some really cool pets!)

#21 Nov 21 2004 at 4:37 AM Rating: Default
wow i had no idea that Druid had a such problems.

it seemed to be a cool class.

and in ob i saw so many of them :D

intange was so nice to have in a raid to keep the ppl from running or geting close.

if you like druid you sould just play that class :D and not worry about the flaw it has now.

I am sure that bizzerd will fix the problem that you mantion, since this is mmorpg, race and class get fixed.

:)
#22 Nov 21 2004 at 4:46 AM Rating: Decent
Thats's what i meant about some things in druid being not right...with the mana cost switch you cant be as versatile in a group as druids are touted to be. Lower levels may be fine but i think once you start hitting the mid 20's you are gonna start to wonder where the love is. There are a couple classes now that need a little more love and they would be fixed(mage, warrior, druid). I m not asking for a complete overhaul but some things NEED to be tweaked to be useful for groups at higher lvls. Its not that the druid isnt fun to play...it just doesnt seem to have "a place" in the game that blizzard has done for everyother class. And if you say its place is jack of all trades? look at shaman...much better at everhthing from what i have seen and heard(I myself never have played shaman), if you read through some of the WoW forums and played druid to 35ish its a lot easier to understand.
#23 Nov 21 2004 at 6:44 AM Rating: Decent
I enjoyed playing a druid in ST and open beta...but I won't play one in retail because of the problems the class has right now. The animal forms cost too much mana to cast, and weapons should have an effect on your damage when in animal form.
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