2.0.10 test relm notesFollow

sorta kinda maybe but not really.

think of it as this maz; you cast regrowth, and the 1.5s GCD ticks down, and .5s later regrowth casts. youre a quick fellow, so youre hammering your rejuv key so that it lands on the guy the instant regrowth lands. hence, 2 spells in 2s. yes, youve still got a GCD after using rejuv, but if all you want to talk about is regrowth > rejuv, then its effectively a 2s (or 1.5s with natures grace up, if youre so specced) casting sequence.

I was talking a more a PvE situation, were travelforming away really isn't an option.

I guess it really just depends on the mob. I'll try for the HT if its a slow hitter just because its more mana efficient, and on faster hitting mobs I'll do the Regrowth + Rejuv.

Regrowth + Rejuv cost 845 and 415 mana, 1260 total. Add in the 900 or so for the shapeshift and your at 2100 Mana, which is just about half my feral MP pool.

And this goes for herioc 5 mans too, personally i play neither, i play the other end, the holy preist.
For me it became apparrent real quick when doing an Krazhan and heriocs that druids couldnt MT there because of the crushing blows and critical hits. Ive seen druids against bosses go from 16k hp to dead in 3 seconds flat. I always theorycrafted in my head that this was the balance and it turned out to be right.

Druid was already jack of all trades when you look at endgame, a feral druid is and ideal for dps and offtanking, a jack of all trades. Now i hope for druids that they still can perform that role in raids and herioc 5 mans.
I though Blizzard balanced things around endgame, the place were most of the players spend 90% of their playtime. And anyway, tanks are scarce it was very nice you could let a druid MT to the way to endgame.

The whiners (or anyone saying the druid nerf was just), plainly said, dont know WTF theyre talking about. Well see if its ruined, i hope not bc we have 2 kick *** ferals in our guild who knew what their role was and probably will never play druid again if it isnt a viable offtank anymore.

Once again for the skimmers a shield negating crushing blows and critical hits is the balance, for the ones that do not know, an strike blocked by a shield cant crit and cant be a crushing blow. So its virtually impossible for a warrior to get 3 shotted in a short period of time unlike a druid. Especially bc of the warrior skill block, that every decent awrrior uses after using a huge chunk of live bc of a critical hit or crushing blow.

The shadow priest nerfs based purely around Karazahn imo, shadowpriests were bumping other DD´s out of the raid, pretty fast i might add.
Blizzard, make shackle a holy spell and solve it that way, kk?

Edited, Feb 25th 2007 9:11am by Sjans

Holy shit.....I agree with Mazra.

To bad they still do sub-par damage in PvE. If it wasnt for redirect and their freezetrap they would never get a spot and im talking about 5 man heriocs.

It shouldn't take 1 player 30 seconds to kill 5 players either. Yet the Mages haven't been nerfed yet.

Our PvE damage is so weak, Mazra!

Yet you constantly pull aggro from my Druid and we're talking pre-nerf here. 3,000 Pyro crits + Ignite ftl.

But we're glass cannons! We have to hit hard!

You've doubled your health in the expansion, and that's on level 60 TBC items alone. And your Mana Shield now absorbs magical damage as well. Glass cannons with shields. Why not just give them heals while we're at it? Oh wait, can't Spell Steal steal HoTs?.

*sigh*

I would worry about your druid tbh, either that or a healer was sleeping, midnight doesn't even hit that hard. We've also got a druid who tanks for us and he hasn't had a problem when it comes to mitigation, infact a lot of our healers have said they prefer healing him to us. Bastards. :(



You don't need to, since the agility -> dodge value for druids was considerably lowered those who know what they're doing can get roughly the same value in pure dodge that warriors get in dodge and parry combined.

Goddamnit... So many uninformed people posting here, almost makes me sick. Sure, you have every right to QQ, because some of these changes suck, and it was nice being a little overpowered for once. BUT. If you want to cry, PLEASE, PLEASE, do it on the Blizzard forums, not here.

First, a big thankyou to the OP for actually being rational and fairly sensible.

@Sjans... If your druid got 3-shotted by Attumen's horse, then his gear is nowhere near "good". I MTed the Attumen fight on my druid wearing blue and green quest rewards and instance drops from a few of the lower TBC instances. And my trusty warden staff that I've been using for tanking since lvl 43 ... And his horse really doesn't hit THAT hard, considering I never found myself in any danger of dying... So I'm basically left assuming that he didn't know what he was doing. My point? You can't beartank in kitty gear. It just does NOT work, as far as mitigation or hp is concerned.

My stats in bearform in tank gear, typically... about 800 attackpower, over 22k armour, 13k-ish hp unbuffed, and about 14% crit.

My stats in bearform in dps gear, typically... about 1700 attackpower, about 11k armour, 10k-ish hp unbuffed, and about 31% crit.

Spot the difference? Disgusting, isn't it? /need an Earthwarden.


Theophany is clearly basing his numbers off what somebody else said about their own character, probably exaggerated to start with, and also dealing in hyperbole. For a druid to have 30k armour unbuffed at 70 at the current point in time is frankly ridiculous. I myself could maybe get another nearly 7k extra IF I went armour mad, and had access to a some T5 stuff and an earthwarden and put the last 2 points into thick hide... That still only gives you 29k, (which I believe is well over the current effective armour cap), and we're talking ridiculous /envy level gear here. In any case, having more than about 15k armour ends up almost completely gimping your dps. See above.

=P


As for this patch...

1) Yes, bear mangle was powerful. It scaled with AP far better than it had any right to with the +damage talents... But as for this, it'll be about 35% total damage reduction on that one move though, which is a kinda sad thing to do to a 41 pt talent and perhaps a little to far to take a nerf that you're just doing for the sake of the whiners. It just won't be a worthwhile utility to use at any point in a PvE situation where the mob isn't completely immune to lacerate... At least give it an innate threat bonus like maul's, to keep it semi-useful. I swear, I only used it anyway because seeing numbers over 1k occasionally when tanking did make it more interesting.

2) @#$%. SWIPE? Dropping swipe's damage just pisses me off. Swipe has no threat multiplier anymore (thanks Blizz, re: a previous patch), so it builds aggro on multiple things purely from damage and the bearform bonus. With it losing roughly 20% of it's damage (not to mention the idol of brutality change) there's going to be some fairly unhappy dead casters on aoe pulls.

3) Not in the least worried about losing a little damage from maul, since it has a flat threat bonus anyway and the damage was never that important.

4) I'll miss the extra 5% damage on crits, but all in all, not too important in bear and it'll only drop my dps in cat by about 1.5% overall.

5) The armour... I'm not to worried. I'll just be respeccing to 3/3 Thick Hide, where previously I was able to spend the points elsewhere without worrying... It'll just mean that some of the talents I was using to allow me to offheal fairly well when needed are going out the window.


And no, for all those who are thinking there are other options for some druids... Not even remotely. I'm feral because I want to be feral, because I enjoy it, because tanking is fun, because I don't have to respec every time I want to farm, because shapeshifting is cool, and because I do NOT want to heal on my druid. I do not want to be sidelined into some damn tree. When I want to heal I'll get on my holy paladin thankyouverymuch, because I actually enjoy that. As for balance, boomkins are just not my thing. Geared for it, tried it. Sure, effective enough, but I didn't like it... And wtf is the point in playing something you don't enjoy?

All things considered, I'll probably still want to play my druid, and probably still be viable in the roles I want to fill. But I think I'll finish getting my paladin the last few levels to 70 just in case, and show some priests a few tricks.

Now somebody give me a hug. Please. =(

/hug

I also gave you a rate up, good post.

Because that's all we're good for, amirite? OH NOES TEH DRUID WANT 2 TANK1 LOLOLSHOODRUID NOW HEAL MEZ

Yeah. ***** you. I don't buy that crap.

Warriors got their tanking nerf, and they stood in the middle of the room screaming bloody murder until they got their way, and the big, bad Druid (the game's whipping boy in both PVE and PVP for two years) got beaten down with the nerfbat. Hey, pal, I wanted Warriors to get buffed--I know what it's like to be at the bottom of the dogpile and be so broken you can barely do anything. I wanted them to get buffed because they didn't deserve to get hit so hard. After trying to champion the Warriors cause, in return, I get...laughed at? "LOL noob lrn2specresto," I heard a random Warrior say to me in Shattrath City after finding it out. After I told him, "Yeah, Warriors deserved that buff."

Yeah, you know what? ***** you, the whole lot of you. That's what I get for trusting in the sincerity and non-retardation of other people. Lrn2specprot if you're going to tank. How's that? Lrn2bandage, how's that? Easy to point the finger and tell someone what they're doing wrong in one little trite sentence, isn't it? Wow, I never thought of that! I mean, gee, you might actually start thinking that playing an individual class, spec, and playstyle might require time or skill or any assortment of patience. No, that can't be. Spec Resto, and the world is yours for the taking.

***** you. We have healing to fall back on, but goddammit, we shouldn't be forced to fall back on it. It shouldn't be the only viable spec out there. Not when we supposedly have other means of having solo/PVP/group/raid viability. Well, they just nerfed our tanking, and I suspect when the Rogues start crying, they'll nerf our Cat form too. Then what?

Yeah, back to healing. Hurray. ***** you.

GG, Blizz. It was nice to be viable while it lasted. Can't wait to see how we'll get kneecapped in the future, because you know, God forbid we do anything but heal. Amirite, Xylia?

Yeah, I'm bitter. What of it?

Edit: For what it's worth, I'll concede to the point that Bears might have done a bit too much damage for all the benefits. But a straight up nerf to everything that makes a Bear, well, a Bear is crap. Mangle is worthless as a 41 point talent, does less damage than Maul and has no threat bonus. And don't say it wasn't meant for tanking--they wouldn't have given Druids a Bear version if they didn't expect us to use it in the tanking arena. I'm just irritated that they got so heavy-handed. It smacks of a knee-jerk, "zomg they hit hard nerf nerf nerf quick before they see me!" It's poor form. Especially after letting it persist through beta and a over a month into release. Bad taste.


Edited, Feb 25th 2007 12:16pm by WFSilverKnight

Exactly, everyone's stats have gone up. Rogues stamina has also gone up as well as their dps has, by a sh*tload. Same with mages and their spell damage, take into account some mages must actually rely on instant casts to kill some other classes, if their instant casts did sh*t damage that would be the end of their chances.



Hey summoning doesn't help me Dps, neither does Demon Armor, or Unending Breath, or detect invisibility, or an SS, etc... but I don't complain about it, I know they are all have their different uses, some of which are very limited, but they can be useful nevertheless...

You were complaining before (or in the other topic, can't remember now ^^') about druids becoming free kills in PvP, I don't buy that, if there is something a hybrid class can excel at, it's pvp, and you can see because all those little tricks and abilities I have mentioned before have their nifty use when confronting other players.

Edit: Was meant to be a reply to Aza's post.

But wouldn't you get pissed if Blizzard decided to nerf your damage output because the crybabies said that your free mount and unending breath made you overpowered? They do absolutely zero to your effectiveness as a damage dealer in a group, but people still used it as excuse for an overall damage nerf.

Wouldn't that **** you off oh so much? I know it would **** me off.

Using our Flight Form and Roots as excuse for a Bear form nerf is below the waist. I'd give up my Entangling Roots and Flight Form instantly if it would prevent the above listed changes from going live.

I'd even give up Travel Form. Not Aquatic Form though. I enjoy taking naps at the bottom of the sea where Horde people seldom come to gank me.

Edited, Feb 25th 2007 12:41pm by Mazra