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Nerf Hunter's MarkFollow
OMGZORS!!!!111oneone!!! Someonez out there can beat me. NERF!!!oneone!111!!!!
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Caydiem: "Hunter's Mark is working as intended"
/agree
Somebody better call the Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance for the OP so he doesn't make his cornflakes all salty.
Honesltly though, just grow up and deal with it. You don't see me screaming OMFGNE RFALLROgUUECA USEIWEREGA NKED!!!!!!11111ONEONEOENONEONEoneoneoneoneoneoneoneone.........
"I have lost my way
But I hear a tale
About a heaven in Alberta
Where they've got all hell for a basement"
But I hear a tale
About a heaven in Alberta
Where they've got all hell for a basement"
Interestingly enough, the only time where you will encounter the 'problem' of lowbies landing debuffs such as hunters mark on you....
...Is when you are in lower leveled contested territory, or in the enemy's territory. You are where you are not supposed to be, generally there to gank or harrass. But no, you also want it so that every lowbie you come across will be entirely unable to do anything to you.
Because that's fair, right? They shouldn't be able to band up and fight, they should have to wait for higher level assistance.
Get out of horde/lowbie territory. Then you won't have to worry about gray con people landing debuffs on you. And even if they do... They're gray con ffs. Go over and two shot them.
...Is when you are in lower leveled contested territory, or in the enemy's territory. You are where you are not supposed to be, generally there to gank or harrass. But no, you also want it so that every lowbie you come across will be entirely unable to do anything to you.
Because that's fair, right? They shouldn't be able to band up and fight, they should have to wait for higher level assistance.
Get out of horde/lowbie territory. Then you won't have to worry about gray con people landing debuffs on you. And even if they do... They're gray con ffs. Go over and two shot them.
I refuse to acknowledge any post calling for a nerf.
Learn to play your class.
Learn to play your class.
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I refuse to acknowledge any post calling for a nerf.
/agree
This is why my signature on the official boards is:
“Nerf prairie chickens.â€
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Hunter's Mark (Rank 1)
Requires: None
Level 6
15 Mana
Instant
100 yd range
Places the Hunter's Mark on the target, increasing the Ranged Attack Power of all attackers against that target by 20. In addition, the target of this ability can always be seen by the hunter whether it stealths or turns invisible.
Requires: None
Level 6
15 Mana
Instant
100 yd range
Places the Hunter's Mark on the target, increasing the Ranged Attack Power of all attackers against that target by 20. In addition, the target of this ability can always be seen by the hunter whether it stealths or turns invisible.
I really dont think the OP's idea is that far out of line.
Sure everyone hates rogues, and I agree, it seems ironic for a rogue to talk about anything being unfair; but take a step back and look at this as it applies to all classes.
As per the description, hunters mark is a debuff! The level 6 version increases everyone's ranged attack power against that target by 20.
If a level 6 hunter can stick a 2 minute debuff on a level 60 of any class, from 100 range that is a problem.
Is there any other offensive ability that would work at level 6 with 100% certainty against a 60? Lets not loose perspective because a person who plays a rogue brought this to light.
My 2 cp.
12 posts
Ok, I think I need to clarify some things about the glaring misconceptions in this thread.
First, hunters mark is a Magic Debuff. This means it can be purged/cleansed.
Second, If you want to remove the mark, kill the offending hunter and the mark will drop.
Third, The ability for low level players to affect higher level players like this is intentional. It is for balance, so that a gaggle of lowbies can kill a single high-level griefer.
Forth, Hunters mark does not need any nerfing. Rogues simply don’t want anyone to have any chance against them and a call to nerf something underpowered like hunters mark is a joke. It adds only half the attack power that battle shout adds.
First, hunters mark is a Magic Debuff. This means it can be purged/cleansed.
Second, If you want to remove the mark, kill the offending hunter and the mark will drop.
Third, The ability for low level players to affect higher level players like this is intentional. It is for balance, so that a gaggle of lowbies can kill a single high-level griefer.
Forth, Hunters mark does not need any nerfing. Rogues simply don’t want anyone to have any chance against them and a call to nerf something underpowered like hunters mark is a joke. It adds only half the attack power that battle shout adds.
Did you already forget that rogues have an ability to dispel Hunter's Mark?
It's called 'Kill Hunter'. Considering the level difference between you and the one that put it on you, the casting of this ability is relatively quick.
It's called 'Kill Hunter'. Considering the level difference between you and the one that put it on you, the casting of this ability is relatively quick.
How about no. This still doesn't fix your problem. Hunters have a ranged DoT (Serpent Sting) that will knock you out of stealth at any level that lasts 15 seconds. What's even better about this one is that we can cast it on multiple targets, unlike the mark which disappears off the original if you cast it on an additional target. And yes, I'm pretty sure that only the hunter can see you when he marks you. That sounds like a bug another hunter bug that needs squashing. Is the easiest PvP class in the game really asking a nerf to one of the hardest ones in the game?
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I really dont think the OP's idea is that far out of line.
Sure everyone hates rogues, and I agree, it seems ironic for a rogue to talk about anything being unfair; but take a step back and look at this as it applies to all classes.
As per the description, hunters mark is a debuff! The level 6 version increases everyone's ranged attack power against that target by 20.
If a level 6 hunter can stick a 2 minute debuff on a level 60 of any class, from 100 range that is a problem.
Is there any other offensive ability that would work at level 6 with 100% certainty against a 60? Lets not loose perspective because a person who plays a rogue brought this to light.
My 2 cp.
Sure everyone hates rogues, and I agree, it seems ironic for a rogue to talk about anything being unfair; but take a step back and look at this as it applies to all classes.
As per the description, hunters mark is a debuff! The level 6 version increases everyone's ranged attack power against that target by 20.
If a level 6 hunter can stick a 2 minute debuff on a level 60 of any class, from 100 range that is a problem.
Is there any other offensive ability that would work at level 6 with 100% certainty against a 60? Lets not loose perspective because a person who plays a rogue brought this to light.
My 2 cp.
Just a quirk of the ability. Like how purge can remove potions (which cost money) and things like MotW and PW:F (which cost a good deal of mana). A rank 1 purge can take off any buff (albeit 1 less), similar to rank 1 hunters mark giving a useless amount of extra AP. Both are quirks of how they work. Is having to look out for hunters that see you out of stealth all that much work, rogues? I see rogues say that priests should keep shields up 24/7 in contested zones to combat ambush quite often.
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A rank 1 purge can take off any buff (albeit 1 less), similar to rank 1 hunters mark giving a useless amount of extra AP.
As the owner of a 32 shaman, I can tell you first hand that purge is very resistable. The higher the level difference between the caster and target, the lower the chance of purge working. As you will see in the text quoted from my first post, OP's point was that Hunter's Mark cannot be resisted, and works 100% of the time regardless of level. I hardly see the validity of a comparison to an ability that is resistable.
The statement about hunters mark being useless seems rather uninformed - If it is useless, why does every hunter use it on every mob?
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Is having to look out for hunters that see you out of stealth all that much work, rogues?
As previously mentioned, this affects every class, including rogues. Also, it affects every class with 100% certainty, regardless of level.
All I am saying is that the OP has a point.
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As the owner of a 32 shaman, I can tell you first hand that purge is very resistable. The higher the level difference between the caster and target, the lower the chance of purge working. As you will see in the text quoted from my first post, OP's point was that Hunter's Mark cannot be resisted, and works 100% of the time regardless of level. I hardly see the validity of a comparison to an ability that is resistable.
My point was here was that, while it can be resisted, that it will remove buffs of any level -- including ones that cost money. I'm not trying to say purge is overpowered, I'm trying to show that each spell has its quirks.
[/quote]The statement about hunters mark being useless seems rather uninformed - If it is useless, why does every hunter use it on every mob?[/quote]
I was talking about rank 1 is a lot less powerful than the higher ranks, similar to purge. Hunters mark doesn't seem to do a whole lot when I use it really, doesn't seem like the 100+ AP (I don't remember off the top of my head) that the final rank supposedly gives is actually doing anything. It costs no mana to cast and I'll be spending 500-1000 (while farming, if I go all out I'll be OOM in like 5 fights) in the fight the extra >100 means nothing.
I think I'll be experimenting with or without hunters mark tonight. :)
Firstly I know how to play my class
Secondly I was not there to kill lowbies I was just passing through.
I can't belive most of you can't see the inbalance of Hunter's Mark it's a spell that is casted but not resistable to any level, there is no other ability in the game like this.
Hunter's mark when landed on you decreases your survivability and this would be on par with many other spells that can be put on you
I.e poly, dot's etc but every other spell that can be cast by any other player in the game has a resist chance yet Hunter's Mark does not.
As for those that jumped on the waaaaaaaaa band wagon, if you have nothing interesting to say or any thing that would be usfull to the discussion then don't say anything.
rated down on all my posts for voicing my opinion! just remember to all, don't post anything in regards to players abilitys you get nuked for it!
Secondly I was not there to kill lowbies I was just passing through.
I can't belive most of you can't see the inbalance of Hunter's Mark it's a spell that is casted but not resistable to any level, there is no other ability in the game like this.
Hunter's mark when landed on you decreases your survivability and this would be on par with many other spells that can be put on you
I.e poly, dot's etc but every other spell that can be cast by any other player in the game has a resist chance yet Hunter's Mark does not.
As for those that jumped on the waaaaaaaaa band wagon, if you have nothing interesting to say or any thing that would be usfull to the discussion then don't say anything.
rated down on all my posts for voicing my opinion! just remember to all, don't post anything in regards to players abilitys you get nuked for it!
Just to clarify a few things:
Hunter's Mark only effects your stealth with the hunter that cast it on you. I know this is easy to oversee with that annoying read arrow over your head but it is true.
You can vanish from it. Unless something has been changed in the last couple weeks a rogue can vanish from a Hunter's Mark, I learned that the hard way playing my hunter.
Serpent Sting is far more effective against stealth IMO.
The above statements are from in game experience, I know that the spell description may create a grey area but the above statements are tried and tested.
In closing I will say that I think the rate downs probably came more from the title of the thread than the content. People probably just saw "Nerf Hunter's Mark" and came in, ranted, rated, and left. You'll notice reading wasn't a part of that. Ah well, its just the color of your name... I'd rate ya back up if I could.
Hunter's Mark only effects your stealth with the hunter that cast it on you. I know this is easy to oversee with that annoying read arrow over your head but it is true.
You can vanish from it. Unless something has been changed in the last couple weeks a rogue can vanish from a Hunter's Mark, I learned that the hard way playing my hunter.
Serpent Sting is far more effective against stealth IMO.
The above statements are from in game experience, I know that the spell description may create a grey area but the above statements are tried and tested.
In closing I will say that I think the rate downs probably came more from the title of the thread than the content. People probably just saw "Nerf Hunter's Mark" and came in, ranted, rated, and left. You'll notice reading wasn't a part of that. Ah well, its just the color of your name... I'd rate ya back up if I could.
Nerf this, nerf that. People ***** so much. Reminds me of EQ...
Kalesu wrote:
Nerf this, nerf that. People ***** so much. Reminds me of EQ...
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In closing I will say that I think the rate downs probably came more from the title of the thread than the content. People probably just saw "Nerf Hunter's Mark" and came in, ranted, rated, and left.
Told ya
Nah, I've never rated anyone, up or down. Just sick of people wanting to change the game like they know it all. Let the game developers do it, you know?
I play scissors and I say we should nerk rock, its too powerful. Paper is fine as is.
that level 60 can see you coming from a mile away anyway, even if you were in stealth. your stealth ability at that level is not that powerful to the 60 yet.
also if you're in your newbie zone, they shouldn't be able to use that on you regardless of the server you're on, unless you did something to activate your pvp flag.
Edited, Tue Jun 28 11:20:29 2005 by bluegayle
also if you're in your newbie zone, they shouldn't be able to use that on you regardless of the server you're on, unless you did something to activate your pvp flag.
Edited, Tue Jun 28 11:20:29 2005 by bluegayle
For the record, I didn't rate you down. Your post didn't contain any misinformation or flames, so I didn't feel the need to help make it invisible. Just wanted to whine at you, that's all. :P
41 posts
i see that u are upset but hey and so am i. But i think the tvl 13 is proud of his effort (: . I agree on the point that high lvls should have a resist.
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I can't belive most of you can't see the inbalance of Hunter's Mark it's a spell that is casted but not resistable to any level, there is no other ability in the game like this.
There are other spells that are unresistable. They just don't have a >30 yard range.
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Hunter's mark when landed on you decreases your survivability
When hunter's mark is cast on you, you have a big ******* arrow bobbing over your head. That's really all it does in the way of survivability. Contrary to the description, it does not prevent you from stealthing, and only the hunter who used it can still see you, and strictly on the minimap tracking at that.
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As for those that jumped on the waaaaaaaaa band wagon, if you have nothing interesting to say or any thing that would be usfull to the discussion then don't say anything.
Sorry, but the bandwagon is perfectly appropriate here. You're calling for a nerf to one of the most underpowered classes in the game, from one of the most overpowered, and you're specifically directing yourself at an ability that just makes an arrow bob up and down over your head. Big F'ing deal.
Only the exceptions can be exceptional.
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Hunters mark does not need any nerfing. Rogues simply don’t want anyone to have any chance against them and a call to nerf something underpowered like hunters mark is a joke. It adds only half the attack power that battle shout adds.
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What you are asking for is an uncouterable stealth. Now THAT would be overpowered.
I think people are jumping to conclusions here...
I also think that most of these people yelling about how over powered stealth is have not ever played a rogue.
Rogues know its easy as hell to be taken outa stealth. Mages half a half dozen ways of doing it, Paladins have serveral, not sure...but is warrior fear AEO? Then theres all the dots from Hunters, warlocks, priest, other rogues. Then when it comes to hunters, they got a whole new slew of tricks...flare, track undead, and of course, the infamous mark.
All together...it seems that for our class defining ability, stealth, everyone sure has alot of ways to counter it. It is not the almighty ability as you people think, just that if you die cause of something related to stealth, well basically you just got caught with your pants down and its the way the cookie crumbles.
On the subject of hunters mark though. Nerf is a strong word for what should be done, or what stealthers would like for it to be done. Its ability is fine, cheap...but fine. Its bonuses are fine, the whole fact that we can't hide with it...fine. Impossible to resist? Not so fine, but I can live with that too.
My biggest problem with it? Two minute length that totally negates our job defining ability (stealth).
A fight with a person usaully don't last more then a few seconds (at least when a rogue is involved, one way or another). By, for the love of god, why is it we have to put up with being seen from miles away, even while stealthed, cause of the stupid arrow.
Why should a spell that negates our whole job so much last so long? Thats like having a negative 50% armor spell cast on a Paladin, sure as hell won't last 2 minutes...maybe 10 seconds.
Heres what happens to me, I get hunters mark...I leave.
I have to stand there and wait for two minutes before I can go back to my fight.
If anything should be done to the mark, it should be like 30 seconds long. Even then, it cost like no mana, should just be recasted. Only reason you couldn't recast it then is if the stealther is no where near you, and off twiddling his thumbs waiting for it to go away.
Hunters cry that they need more power, that their class is broken. Honestly... if your one of the ones crying this, ask your game developers to make you into an effective class all around, not just trying to create a "rogue killer" job.
First off, I personally think the duration is fine. If you're sitting there for two minutes with this mark on your head, then the hunter is (more than likely) sitting somewhere for 2 minutes, waiting himself. That mark goes on EVERYTHING before I start hitting it. And I mean everything. We can only have one mark up at a time.
Track undead does nothing for you rogues. All the undead are considered humanoid. We can't track you when you're invised, unless we give up all of our other track abilities, using the (almost) useless track hidden. I say it's almost because the stealth detection doesn't warrent taking off track humanoid till you get close to 60.
Resisting, I can see the point. I'm not saying I agree, but I do see your point.
We are broken. We do need more power. I don't think many are advocating to be a rogue killing job, however. Rogues are the ONE class that we can beat almost all of the time. I still lose to rogues who get the jump on me. We are not the end all, be all rogue killer, but we certainly have our advantages when fighting rogues. You are rock, and we are paper. Much like the majority of other classes are scissors to us.
Edited because I don't know how to spell scissors.
Edited, Tue Jun 28 13:35:04 2005 by Lewskinslayer
Track undead does nothing for you rogues. All the undead are considered humanoid. We can't track you when you're invised, unless we give up all of our other track abilities, using the (almost) useless track hidden. I say it's almost because the stealth detection doesn't warrent taking off track humanoid till you get close to 60.
Resisting, I can see the point. I'm not saying I agree, but I do see your point.
BrookieDragon wrote:
Hunters cry that they need more power, that their class is broken. Honestly... if your one of the ones crying this, ask your game developers to make you into an effective class all around, not just trying to create a "rogue killer" job.
We are broken. We do need more power. I don't think many are advocating to be a rogue killing job, however. Rogues are the ONE class that we can beat almost all of the time. I still lose to rogues who get the jump on me. We are not the end all, be all rogue killer, but we certainly have our advantages when fighting rogues. You are rock, and we are paper. Much like the majority of other classes are scissors to us.
Edited because I don't know how to spell scissors.
Edited, Tue Jun 28 13:35:04 2005 by Lewskinslayer
OOPS so close I thought I had it claimed.
Dang Blasted
Edited, Tue Jun 28 13:31:01 2005 by Capitolg
Dang Blasted
Edited, Tue Jun 28 13:31:01 2005 by Capitolg
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