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Hitting 50 These DaysFollow

#27 Jun 03 2014 at 1:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
Yeeeeaaah a fresh 50 player with just the relic weapon who is in AF and who doesn't have the cash to buy iLvl 70 gear off the market boards is not going into Coil right off the bat. The game won't let you.

Hell, I still can't run Titan EX on my week old BLM because iLvl 66 isn't high enough!


You make plenty of money through the main story to afford a full set of iLVL 70 crafted gear, which is all at low prices right now (40-60k a piece.)

Quote:
I'm sorry, but you've oversimplified things.

You can't skip any of that stuff. A fresh 50 isn't suddenly able to run Coil as soon as they ding.. it doesn't work that way. The non-story dungeons you've listed above are still required for your GC promotions which, make no mistake, are not going away. The high-level dungeons are done repeatedly in roulettes for tomestones while gearing up towards current content levels. And Crystal Tower is still a great stepping stone to fill in gear gaps (and is still done by quite a lot of people right now).

I'm actually a little surprised you didn't list Turns 1-5 in there too as they only drop i90 gear and not i110.

Also 7 hours for the entire story? What? You can't possibly be serious with that number.


I mean, yes, I oversimplified this for argument's sake. But I don't think it's any less valid.

Particularly if you have a friend or 3 in this game, I could carry someone to full iLVL 90 glory very quickly. They would learn nothing, and would be a total anchor in everything, but it would be very easy.

I was wrong about some of the dungeons then, since I didn't need to do any promotions as legacy. But, I could have a fresh 50 farming coil in a few hours. A Relic takes maybe 4 hours of work including waiting on duty finder and farming tomes. Buy some gear on the board, even though it would be not great gear, and you're in coil turn 1.

I got a full ilvl 90 monk in a light weekend. Are you honestly going to tell me you enjoy the leapfrog upgrades? It burns people out, scorns the hardcore players, and makes older content pointless. You only need to look at WoW and their playerbase for the examples on the subject.

/Rosey FFXI sunglasses


Edited, Jun 3rd 2014 3:41pm by Louiscool
#28 Jun 03 2014 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
Going to have to agree.

I'm not one to ***** endlessly about XIVs comparatively minor issues, but the fast rate of dungeon nerfing and gear obsolescence is going to bite us in the butt, and probably sooner than we think.

It took my FC and I about three months to get full Darklight on our first jobs. We went from AF to WP gear to AK gear and a piece or two of myth/DL, to full myth/DL and relic+1s. This took a few months and some work. It was a satisfying pace, and I felt great every time I put on a new piece of "Summoner's _____."

Our newest member to join us was our old FFXI RDM. She rolled a WHM this time around. She hit lvl 50 via roulettes, dungeons, and DD speedruns in just over 2 weeks playing casually. We took her to WP a half dozen times to get a feel for endgame dungeons and a couple minor upgrades, then a couple runs of AV to get her some good healer practice. She immediately bought a Vanya and HQ i70 weapon off the MB.

That was three weeks ago.

She's now i86 with full CT//myth/weathered gear and is almost ready to Zenith her Thyrus.

She went from fresh 50 to 86 in about one sixth the time it took us to get to i70. That's great for her and our ability to get her into events. But knowing that will keep happening, I look at every new weathered piece I put on and I don't feel good. I feel like barfing and yelling "MMMMEEEEEEHHHHH!!!!!" at the top of my lungs in a disgruntled voice. My effort doesn't mean ****, so why not slack off and be rewarded when the nerfs come? Why care at all? I still don't have an answer to that question, so I've taken up crafting. Smiley: tongue
#29 Jun 03 2014 at 2:53 PM Rating: Excellent
Louiscool wrote:
You make plenty of money through the main story to afford a full set of iLVL 70 crafted gear, which is all at low prices right now (40-60k a piece.)

Not on Lamia. Vanya (and the equivalent) is running about 180k-220k per piece, and about the same for the crafted iLvl 70 weapon.


Edited, Jun 3rd 2014 4:54pm by Laverda
#30 Jun 03 2014 at 2:59 PM Rating: Excellent
Lamia seems to have some of the worst inflation. I was feeling pretty rich at 3.5 million gil that I got through hard work, then a certain FC member (who is also a real life friend) explained how he had broken the markets to strike it rich and had almost twice as much money as I do! Smiley: lol

I ended up making my own Vanya hands since I was still in AF gloves (everything else was at least iLvl 70 besides accessories) and the materials cost me about 80K.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2014 4:59pm by Catwho
#31 Jun 03 2014 at 3:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Laverda wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
You make plenty of money through the main story to afford a full set of iLVL 70 crafted gear, which is all at low prices right now (40-60k a piece.)

Not on Lamia. Vanya (and the equivalent) is running about 180k-220k per piece, and about the same for the crafted iLvl 70 weapon.

Is that HQ or NQ? That sounds like HQ prices, and I would guess that 40 to 60k a piece are NQ prices.
#32 Jun 03 2014 at 3:27 PM Rating: Excellent
I'll have to double check. All I know is when I saw what Vanya gloves were selling for I went NOPE NOPE NOPE and made them for myself. Smiley: bah
#33 Jun 03 2014 at 5:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
My effort doesn't mean sh*t, so why not slack off and be rewarded when the nerfs come? Why care at all?


Well you could do that.. but you're going to be bored out of your mind. Catchup mechanisms are there to help people catch up. They aren't meant to be meaningful progression.

The progression content right now is Turns 7-9 and the extreme mode primals.

I will say that if your single motivating factor in completing content is to acquire gear, then you're right.. you're better off waiting until it's easier to do that. That's a perfectly legitimate way to play a vertical MMO. I find it kind of boring, but you may be ok with it.
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svlyons wrote:
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#34 Jun 03 2014 at 5:53 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
Well you could do that.. but you're going to be bored out of your mind.


That's already the case though. what meaningful different is there between "I'm bored to death of doing a billion Brayflox speedruns" and "I'm bored to death of doing 50 million Brayflox speedruns, but at least it isn't more"?

My FC is casual elite. Someone here once described it as "Firmcore", where we have a ton of talent between us but like taking things slowly and just enjoying the ride. We don't race to the end, so what seems like will continue happening is that, just about the time we get around to a piece of content it is going to be getting the nerf bat. And just about the time we complete a set of tome gear it will become obsolete. Seriously, the myth cap was removed the week after I completed my first myth set. Heck, two of our members never even set foot in Coil before the echo buff. I have the highest personal progression in the FC, and I'm currently at T5 and farming Levi EX. Guys like us get left in the dirt by SEs forced pacing, and then they hand us "babby mode!" shortcuts because they think that we suck. Its very, very disheartening.

I like that XIV is more casual in terms of time investment, but that's not an excuse for being so fast paced. The updates need to be bigger, further apart, and with less progression content and more side content. There are two ways that people can catch up: One is by shortcuts, but the other is simply with time. I can't speak for everyone, but I'd sure as hell prefer more of the latter.
#35 Jun 03 2014 at 6:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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I understand what you're saying, and I do agree that Coil is being nerfed too quickly.

But envision this: It's six months in the future, we know an expansion is on the horizon, but Johnny McChocobos just started playing the game and he wants to play with his friends who've been playing since launch. His friends are farming Turn 20 or whatever by this point and are lol'ing their way through it because they have all the gear and they're just doing it to kill time until the expansion drops. Johnny wants to play with them, but he can't because he has a year's worth of content he has to slog through that nobody does anymore so the queue times are atrocious. Now SE could make Johnny contemplate suicide when he realizes he has, at minimum, a three month grind ahead of him to catch up (most new players in this situation simply quit btw), or SE could make this relatively simple with catchup mechanisms that allow Johnny to see the content but not have to spend a ton of time farming it... the queue times are still bad, but he only has to do each tier of content for a few days before he's passed it. It's quick enough that he's not bored and he's able to catch up to his friends and play in the big kids' playground for a little while.

I understand the FFXI perspective here. I played FFXI myself for quite a while. I worked for my stuff, sometimes for quite a while. I placed a great deal of value on my accomplishments in that game because they took a lot of work. But this isn't FFXI. And if FFXI had been released today with that model, it would fail.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2014 7:05pm by Callinon
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#36 Jun 03 2014 at 8:22 PM Rating: Excellent
svlyons wrote:
Laverda wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
You make plenty of money through the main story to afford a full set of iLVL 70 crafted gear, which is all at low prices right now (40-60k a piece.)

Not on Lamia. Vanya (and the equivalent) is running about 180k-220k per piece, and about the same for the crafted iLvl 70 weapon.

Is that HQ or NQ? That sounds like HQ prices, and I would guess that 40 to 60k a piece are NQ prices.


Okay that is HQ prices but there are no NQs listed so your choices are pay butt expensive prices or go in AF til you get tomes.

And look, there are the NQ Vanya gloves listed for 150K that I turned down yesterday. Smiley: mad

#37 Jun 04 2014 at 6:40 AM Rating: Default
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3,599 posts
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
My effort doesn't mean sh*t, so why not slack off and be rewarded when the nerfs come? Why care at all?


Well you could do that.. but you're going to be bored out of your mind. Catchup mechanisms are there to help people catch up. They aren't meant to be meaningful progression.

The progression content right now is Turns 7-9 and the extreme mode primals.

I will say that if your single motivating factor in completing content is to acquire gear, then you're right.. you're better off waiting until it's easier to do that. That's a perfectly legitimate way to play a vertical MMO. I find it kind of boring, but you may be ok with it.


That's my point though. Progression looses any "Meaningfulness" when it's nerfed to hell in 3 months. Aside from being able to say "I did it first!" what good is it?

Edited, Jun 4th 2014 8:43am by Louiscool
#38 Jun 04 2014 at 6:46 AM Rating: Excellent
Apparently it means a lot considering all the folks who STILL brag that they "did COP when it was still hard."

You kids have no idea what we went through.
#39 Jun 04 2014 at 7:33 AM Rating: Good
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3,599 posts
Catwho wrote:
Apparently it means a lot considering all the folks who STILL brag that they "did COP when it was still hard."

You kids have no idea what we went through.


Smiley: laugh
#40 Jun 04 2014 at 8:21 AM Rating: Good
I'm not ashamed of it.

I still remember my static alliance we cobbled together taking 5 and a half hours to clear Promy: Holla. And getting eaten by Diremites under Diabolos.

Clearing CoP is a badge of honor as far as MMOs go. Smiley: lol
#41 Jun 04 2014 at 9:21 AM Rating: Excellent
Yeah we had a static too. I called it the "summer of CoP." We'd meet once a week for the next major battle, and it was each member's responsibility to slog through the cutscenes using Erecia's famous guide. At the time, I only had white mage to 75, so I leveled up BLM just for the airship fight. (Our PLD tank leveled up NIN, and a few other people adjusted jobs to blow through it. We beat it on the second try.)

I actually took the same approach with WotG about a year and a half ago. When we heard a new expansion was coming out, we were like "uhhhh better finish WotG...." We got through it as a trio/quartet, and then went back and did each of the city missions too because we were masochists. Finally got through to Providence Watcher and I had this whole WOOOO I BEAT THE GAME feeling.

At least with Adoulin I'm doing what I did with ToAU, which is making damn sure to beat all the mission content before the next patch comes out.

Hey, like we do with XIV.
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