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4Gamer Interview with the Producers of FFXI, FFXIV, and DQXFollow

#52 Mar 12 2014 at 12:25 PM Rating: Default
preludes wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
preludes wrote:
Thayos wrote:
Doubt it... In a p2p game, you either have an account or you don't. A lot of people who don't log in often haven't quit the game, and are probably still subscribers... Hence the distinction between accounts and active players.


Notice how if you stop playing for a year and come back your account is still alive?

1.8 million accounts does not mean 1.8 million paying customers, to be this evasive with subscriber numbers the active player numbers must be pretty low.

They can be pretty liberal with the truth in interviews, they can't lie or pad numbers in financial reports which is why they gave no information at all last time.


You wish.

500k+ subscribers playing the game every day is a cold hard fact. Nothing "low" about it.


I don't wish anything, I have common sense.

Tell me how servers that were struggling with 600k subscribers can handle 1.8 million? Unless harry potter runs the servers there is no way that would ever be possible.


Common sense to dance around the fact Yoshi-P wasn't evasive with the subscriber numbers? 500k daily users, with many more that don't log in every day. You can acknowledge this fact anytime, preludes.

What you are saying about the 1.8 million number is right, but the active player numbers are anything but low. You happened to notice that the servers are constantly under heavy load these days?
#53 Mar 12 2014 at 12:30 PM Rating: Excellent
Preludes is back!

Quote:
Tell me how servers that were struggling with 600k subscribers can handle 1.8 million? Unless harry potter runs the servers there is no way that would ever be possible.


Who said 1.8 million people were logging into the game at the same time?

The only concrete login information we have is 500k players who log in every day. That doesn't mean 500k players are all logged in at the same time. In addition to a day being 24 hours long, people around the world play in different time zones, resulting in varying peak times.

That's silly to think 500k players are all logged in simultaneously, let alone 1.8 million! The players who aren't included in that 500k figure log in less frequently.

Plus, SE has spread out its population across its array of servers in two data centers... there will never be any one server handling 1.8 million players. They'll just add new servers as more people register.

See? Turns out, you have no reason to be concerned.
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#54REDACTED, Posted: Mar 12 2014 at 12:30 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I know I'm right about the 1.8 million accounts not being subscribers.
#55 Mar 12 2014 at 12:45 PM Rating: Excellent
Not everyone plays every day.

There are "weekend warriors" who do a twelve hour marathon on Saturdays. There are people like me who have other obligations throughout the week, and may not log in on Mondays/Wednesday/Fridays. There are people who only play during the week, and go camping on the weekend. There are people who normally do log in daily, but they went to go see the Lego Movie or whatever with their friends or their kids one day last week, instead.

500K people logging in daily doesn't mean it's the same 500K people logging in every day, which is the point we're trying to make.

Edited, Mar 12th 2014 2:45pm by Catwho
#56 Mar 12 2014 at 12:45 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
The peak time for Japan and oversea countries are different, for example. But if we simply look at the number of people logging in every day, I'd say we have about 500,000 people world wide. There are people who log in once every couple of days or so, so if we include those people then the number would be higher.


This is about as detailed of an answer as one can give, seeing as how the number of people who log in each day literally changes from day to day.

Also, this is from the original interview:

Quote:
To start with me (FFXIV), we're currently sitting at just over 1.8 million players (accounts).


Looks like Yoshi-P said "players," and the interviewer interpreted that as "accounts." Would love to see more clarification for that interpretation from whoever did the interview.

Also from the interview:

Quote:
Total in-game character count is 6.75 million, and we've just reached over 400 million hours played by our players.


That's a lot of hours! To anyone on this forum who is mathematically minded, how many players would be needed to reach 400 million hours over a seven-month period, given typical average durations of playtime by MMO players?

Also, for that 1.8 million player count to mean "all accounts ever made," then that's kind of surprising that the average player has made three or four different characters! Most people I know have just one or two characters.

Also, I wonder what Yoshi-P means by "total in-game character count," when he could have just said "total character count."

So much we can speculate on!

Quote:
500K people logging in daily doesn't mean it's the same 500K people logging in every daily, which is the point we're trying to make.


This, exactly. This is one of those points that isn't even debatable.

Edited, Mar 12th 2014 11:46am by Thayos
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#57 Mar 12 2014 at 12:52 PM Rating: Excellent
Wow, I've never seen this site until today:

http://xivsoul.com/

According to data mining and analysis by this site, FFXIV currently has more than 900,000 active players.
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#58 Mar 12 2014 at 12:59 PM Rating: Default
Thayos wrote:
Wow, I've never seen this site until today:

http://xivsoul.com/

According to data mining and analysis by this site, FFXIV currently has more than 900,000 active players.


Belonging to a Grand Company doesn't automatically make you active..

Some of the JP server playerbases look rough. Actually my second character is on Yojimbo and I was wondering why it feels so empty during JP primetime! I hope the PS4 launch will improve those numbers.
#59 Mar 12 2014 at 1:07 PM Rating: Default
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Woo you guys can not have it both ways.. At the 600000 mark those people were not logged on all the time either.. How many of those people were logged in at once at the 600,000 mark?
http://www.xivnation.com/news/ffxiv-subscribers-surpass-600000-mark/
600000 thousand paying users and they did not say logged on at once, it was paying users. Hmm we had server issues... And there he used the word paying..

Now you guys claim their are 1.8 million paying customers and no server issues well except Mondays? How can that be?..They did not need to add any servers... We almost triple paying customers and no issues and no servers..
Sorry but it is accounts not paying customers.
Example I have a FFXI account but do not pay anymore.
The number of payed accounts is over 500,000 for sure and are still good numbers.








Edited, Mar 12th 2014 3:14pm by Nashred
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#60 Mar 12 2014 at 1:09 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Belonging to a Grand Company doesn't automatically make you active..


Looks like this dev uses multiple algorithms, not just FC and GC counts. There's all kinds of player activity recorded on the Lodestone in real-time. Looks like this dev counts FC or GC members to determine the number of current overall players, then runs further algorithms based on player activity updates to determine which players are active.

Catwho, what do you make of this? You're one of the more tech-minded people around.

EDIT: The other good news from this is Yoshi-P's subscriber goal was 400,000... and, obviously, the game is already clearing that bar by a wide margin. There are the 500,000 daily players, more who log in every two or three days, and more who log in even less frequently... AND the PS4 version hasn't launched yet... AND the game is planned to be released in China.

Also, as was the case with FFXI, we're certain to get population bumps with each major expansion, too.... and the first expansion for ARR is already underway.
Smiley: cool

Edited, Mar 12th 2014 12:15pm by Thayos
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#61 Mar 12 2014 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
Valkayree wrote:
I was the only lonely member of our FC that logged on last night, lol.

I'm trying to get on. Still need to move some boxes around to set up my desktop. Fairly confident I'll finally be on this weekend sometime (after what, a week and a half?).

Edit: actually it's more like two and a half weeks. Smiley: frown

Edited, Mar 12th 2014 3:38pm by Laverda
#62 Mar 12 2014 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
Preludes is back!




I'm out. See you guys later.
#63 Mar 12 2014 at 2:09 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Also, for that 1.8 million player count to mean "all accounts ever made," then that's kind of surprising that the average player has made three or four different characters! Most people I know have just one or two characters.

Also, I wonder what Yoshi-P means by "total in-game character count," when he could have just said "total character count."


Excluding the erased alpha and beta characters, I suspect. And any other deleted characters.

I have three characters, but only one gets regularly played. I saw no reason to delete the others, especially not my Legacy gal.

As for "Grand Company membership cannot be extrapolated to total player count" - I agree with this, but for the opposite reason. Newer players who are casual won't be in a grand company yet!
#64 Mar 12 2014 at 2:11 PM Rating: Default
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I am going to add this too, this was what SE said at the 1 million mark...

Quote:

The game has 1,080,000 total unique logins (IE: unique players) since its release, 617,000 daily unique logins, and 344,000 peak concurrent users (IE: users connected at the same time). This is pretty impressive considering that sales of the game have been suspended for two weeks in order to solve the congestion of the servers. We’ll have to see if they’ll increase further now that sales are open again.


Now doesn't that seem weird.. 617,000 daily which to me means 24 hrs and now it is less with almost 800,000 more accounts... .. Something aint right.. Why dont they word it like above it makes more sense...

Now you know why I said 500,000 sounds low for 1.8 million...
I better clarify myself before I get the haters talk... 500,000 in a 24 hr period sounds low for 1.8 million uses... Not low in that the game is not successful...

Edited, Mar 12th 2014 4:23pm by Nashred
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#65 Mar 12 2014 at 2:14 PM Rating: Default
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I really don't care about figures given out. The fact that he was advised to not divulge information regarding country statistics kind of tells me he is just padding the numbers.

But so what? Most P2P MMOs do this. What I would really like is something like FFXI's census. Contained heaps of useful information.

If you want to talk about growth/decay, just use observations. For instance, I know at least 10 people quit from another FC I'm relatively friendly with last week. Two of them were pretty casual players. The other 8 belonged to raid groups and since they've left...now there are dysfunctional groups in that FC.

14 is doing great from a new players perspective. After reading the interview, this is pretty much what Yoshi wanted.

Keep in mind, though, that this game is still extremely dry and boring for those of us who have been playing since release and aren't extremely casual. Hope SE has a plan to retain these people.

Edited, Mar 13th 2014 3:17am by HitomeOfBismarck
#66 Mar 12 2014 at 2:15 PM Rating: Good
Nashred wrote:
Woo you guys can not have it both ways.. At the 600000 mark those people were not logged on all the time either.. How many of those people were logged in at once at the 600,000 mark?
http://www.xivnation.com/news/ffxiv-subscribers-surpass-600000-mark/
600000 thousand paying users and they did not say logged on at once, it was paying users. Hmm we had server issues... And there he used the word paying..

Now you guys claim their are 1.8 million paying customers and no server issues well except Mondays? How can that be?..They did not need to add any servers... We almost triple paying customers and no issues and no servers..
Sorry but it is accounts not paying customers.
Example I have a FFXI account but do not pay anymore.
The number of payed accounts is over 500,000 for sure and are still good numbers.


The article you linked was from November. Is it so inconceivable that a very popular game tripled its player base in four months? Especially once it became likely that TESO was going to crash and burn?

They absolutely added in additional server hardware, at several points. They split the NA and JP centers into smaller Duty Finder clusters, doubling the hardware involved on the back end for that. They also did a lot of non-hardware based optimization of the code, and capped individual servers to a max account population and a max concurrent login population to boot.

Once the initial wave of "omg play 16 hours a day" people calmed down, and they added in the needed fixes, the servers did indeed stabilize. The Monday crashes come out of people thinking they have to get all their runs in ASAP or else they will "fall behind" - these are the last vestiges of the 16 hour a day folks. Smiley: laugh
#67 Mar 12 2014 at 2:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
Nashred wrote:
Woo you guys can not have it both ways.. At the 600000 mark those people were not logged on all the time either.. How many of those people were logged in at once at the 600,000 mark?
http://www.xivnation.com/news/ffxiv-subscribers-surpass-600000-mark/
600000 thousand paying users and they did not say logged on at once, it was paying users. Hmm we had server issues... And there he used the word paying..

Now you guys claim their are 1.8 million paying customers and no server issues well except Mondays? How can that be?..They did not need to add any servers... We almost triple paying customers and no issues and no servers..
Sorry but it is accounts not paying customers.
Example I have a FFXI account but do not pay anymore.
The number of payed accounts is over 500,000 for sure and are still good numbers.


The article you linked was from November. Is it so inconceivable that a very popular game tripled its player base in four months? Especially once it became likely that TESO was going to crash and burn?

They absolutely added in additional server hardware, at several points. They split the NA and JP centers into smaller Duty Finder clusters, doubling the hardware involved on the back end for that. They also did a lot of non-hardware based optimization of the code, and capped individual servers to a max account population and a max concurrent login population to boot.

Once the initial wave of "omg play 16 hours a day" people calmed down, and they added in the needed fixes, the servers did indeed stabilize. The Monday crashes come out of people thinking they have to get all their runs in ASAP or else they will "fall behind" - these are the last vestiges of the 16 hour a day folks. Smiley: laugh


Well thats being reported by SE, I have nothing to do with that and there are better numbers in my post after the one you quoted.. Come on I am a IT person mainly hardware and part owner of a internet company.. No way does that account for tripling the amount of users. The numbers are There right from SE...

Edited, Mar 12th 2014 4:33pm by Nashred
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#68 Mar 12 2014 at 2:32 PM Rating: Decent
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:
I really don't care about figures given out. The fact that he was advised to not divulge information regarding country statistics kind of tells me he is just padding the numbers.

But so what? Most P2P MMOs do this. What I would really like it something like FFXI's census. Contained heaps of useful information.

If you want to talk about growth/decay, just use observations. For instance, I know at least 10 people quit from another FC I'm relatively friendly with last week. Two of them were pretty casual players. The other 8 belonged to raid groups and since they've left...now there are dysfunctional groups in that FC.

14 is doing great from a new players perspective. After reading the interview, this is pretty much what Yoshi wanted.

Keep in mind, though, that this game is still extremely dry and boring for those of us who have been playing since release and aren't extremely casual. Hope SE has a plan to retain these people.



Agreed..
Also yea the census would be awsume...

Also to those people who know Bartel Who leads the ZAM FC and a regular poster here has left the game for personal reasons. He could be back in the future but for now he is not paying for the game.

Oh Again I better clarify so people dont jump down my throat, he left for person reasons and nothing related to the game.
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#69 Mar 12 2014 at 2:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
Fail to see where the negative speculation is justified. I pay that as a huge disrespect to the producer whom has busted his **** off after being handed a nightmare financially, design wise, and PR wise, and then turning it around to a success that is currently over four times his expectations.


A) Corporations always do this

B) SE is a corporation

C) Yoshi-P is representing said corporation

I am not disrespectful just because I acknowledge the realities of the business world. Much better than outright denying their existence only because I like the guy and the game.


wow this got defaulted? that doesn't say much for this forum's commitment to reality.
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#70 Mar 12 2014 at 2:46 PM Rating: Excellent
I'm simply not seeing the evidence that droves of people are cancelling subscriptions, and this is bolstered by the fact there are roughly 500,000 people who log in and play on a daily basis, plus many more who just play every two or three days.

What I do see evidence of is more people logging in less frequently with Patch 2.2 on the horizon -- and that makes sense. As more hardcore players hit the wall and get bored, they're likely to back off until the next wave of content hits.

The same holds true for midcore/casual players, too. In my FC, most of our members are now logging in once every two to five days, rather than every one to two days, simply because they're a bit bored with the existing content and they're waiting for 2.2 to land.

By the end of this month, I think some people will be pleasantly surprised by how few people actually quit playing.

Edited, Mar 12th 2014 1:47pm by Thayos
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#71 Mar 12 2014 at 2:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
Question/speculation: Will China get its own data center, or will they roll those subs into Japan's data center?

I suspect the "Middle East" data center will be rolled into the NA/EU one in Montreal, but China is a big question mark.


Hyrist wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Question/speculation: Will China get its own data center, or will they roll those subs into Japan's data center?

I suspect the "Middle East" data center will be rolled into the NA/EU one in Montreal, but China is a big question mark.


China has laws that prevent it from joining the larger world community. It also forbids a lot of content like the 'undead' form being in the game, so essentially no only do they require their own data center, but their own version of the client as well.


Guess they will miss out on those cactaur earrings and Pharos Sirius =). Hmm, how can you fail to prepare the largest population in the world for zombie apocalypse? Not only do they have the largest potential number of zombies, but they would also be the least prepared! Bad combo there.

Edited, Mar 12th 2014 3:57pm by Valkayree
#72 Mar 12 2014 at 3:20 PM Rating: Excellent
Nashred wrote:
Well thats being reported by SE, I have nothing to do with that and there are better numbers in my post after the one you quoted.. Come on I am a IT person mainly hardware and part owner of a internet company.. No way does that account for tripling the amount of users. The numbers are There right from SE...


I'm just a lowly software analyst in a big corporation, but for me it's entirely possible that the number of active playing players for a game that is successful and popular could triple in four months, especially if those four months included Christmas.

A real life friend of mine picked up a PC copy of the game last month because of the PS4 beta. My real life coworker grabbed two copies for him and his wife. That's three extra players that I know alone who had no other connection to the game who just happened to start playing in the last four months.

That's how WoW got so big over time. It didn't swell up to 12 million players at once, but it picked up momentum as people convinced friends to give it a shot.
#73 Mar 12 2014 at 3:25 PM Rating: Default
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Thayos wrote:


By the end of this month, I think some people will be pleasantly surprised by how few people actually quit playing.


I'll question the idea of surprised. They'll disqualify it as people just leaping in for the beginning of the patch and then quitting again, as if that habit of player-base wasn't anticipated in SE's income expectations. (Yoshida has mentioned mulitple times there are these kind of players around and it is part of the reason why he wants to keep the updates rolling.)

But to be fair this all screams the same sort of cry wolf we've had over and over again in FFXI.

We could save us a lot of trouble and just dig up the old 2004-8 arguments about "FFXI is dieing." and transpose the V and the appropriate names terms.

Edited, Mar 12th 2014 5:25pm by Hyrist
#74 Mar 12 2014 at 3:29 PM Rating: Default
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I was wrong.

Edited, Mar 18th 2014 6:39pm by Xoie
#75 Mar 13 2014 at 1:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
I'm simply not seeing the evidence that droves of people are cancelling subscriptions, and this is bolstered by the fact there are roughly 500,000 people who log in and play on a daily basis, plus many more who just play every two or three days.

What I do see evidence of is more people logging in less frequently with Patch 2.2 on the horizon -- and that makes sense. As more hardcore players hit the wall and get bored, they're likely to back off until the next wave of content hits.

The same holds true for midcore/casual players, too. In my FC, most of our members are now logging in once every two to five days, rather than every one to two days, simply because they're a bit bored with the existing content and they're waiting for 2.2 to land.

By the end of this month, I think some people will be pleasantly surprised by how few people actually quit playing.


People do not just quit a game they've invested a lot of time into just like that, Thayos.

What you see evidence of is bad pacing: not lack of content. There is no sign that this same cycle will not repeat within the next 6 months.

It is absolutely foolish to make a statement like this:

Thayos wrote:
I'm simply not seeing the evidence that droves of people are cancelling subscriptions


when 14 was JUST released for another platform. Do you expect to see growth or decay when a game is released for another platform? Were you able to see the effects of people who quit when 11 was released for the 360?

I am not claiming that 14 is dying or that people are leaving in droves. Most of us are just concerned about decisions the developers are making with a game that we have high expectations of.

I will pose the question to you again since you didn't answer me in the other thread: what exactly would you suggest, to people that are bored, to do? I logged in last night. Queued for Titan Ex in DF just for fun. Took 25 minutes on a healer to get into the instance. No one showed signs of communicating, the same people kept failing repeatedly, and it became clear we would not be able to do it. So then I queued for Garuda HM and the same story happened except we were able to do it just because we outgeared it so much after a couple attempts. No communication, though, and the same two to three people kept making the same mistakes. Logged out after these two episodes.

I want to improve my character's DoW and DoM jobs. How would you recommend going about that? Remember: I have quite a few. How would you tell someone who has just one to go about improving it? Would you tell them to level another job that they have no interest in? Was it necessary for me to level BST in 11 (something I had no interest in) to remain entertained or to continue to improve my main job? No. I simply could level another job. However, leveling another job was a huge project and often took months. What about when we had everything we wanted at max? What did we do then? Well, eventually a system was implemented so that we could improve our characters even once they were at level cap. This system was created within the same company that also created 14. For a game that supposedly starts at level 50, there is surprisingly not much to do if you spend a moderate to high amount of time in the game on a daily basis.

Pacing is the key. I can tell you WoW suffers from similar issues currently but can hide behind the massive amount of content they've developed over the years to compensate the bored players. Want to improve your character? Well..you can't really do that. However, what you can do is farm old raids for vanity items and test out your solo capability! That kind of thing.

Edited, Mar 13th 2014 3:57am by HitomeOfBismarck
#76 Mar 13 2014 at 1:55 AM Rating: Excellent
There is no catch-all answer to satisfy players' boredom. I agree with you though, that is certainly a matter of pacing. It's also a matter of taste... Some people may enjoy logging in just to help others, even if tasks seem repetitive. Some people may enjoy the simple act of doing dailies or farming tomes. With te game just seven months old though, there is only so much content to choose from right now. It's even worse with Lecacy players who leveled their favorite jobs to cap in 1.x.

All SE can do right now is stay the course, which seems to be working well enough. There will always be players who get bored with content after it has been out for a few months; nothing worth doing about that, other than keep the updates rolling out.

About communication in game though, I have had no problems communicating with people, or with starting a discussion when the need arises. That said, I also have absolutely no fear of talking to complete strangers, and I know that is surprisingly uncommon.

Edited, Mar 13th 2014 12:56am by Thayos
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