Back in XI, a BLM had to deliberately hold back damage unless they wanted to end up as a grease stain on the ground within 30 seconds of a fight. We learned to count to ten in between low level nukes, and to simply stick with our highest damage spell with its natural 45 second cooldown at endgame.
What I'm hoping for is fights that call for some kind of strategy. Say, you're fighting a boss with wings, and he only takes physical damage when his wings are open. So the DPS stand around while the nukers carefully take him down, then when his wings open you just unload. Then his wings close again, and you have to disengage because you'll start restoring his HP. (This kind of fight was pretty annoying common in Abyssea bosses in FFXI.) You regain all your TP while you wait your turn.
Yeah, you'll be standing around not doing anything a lot. That's called being part of a team. You don't get to be the star all the time.
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How are you all handling marauder's TP starvation?Follow
#28
Jun 17 2013 at 1:14 PM
Catwho wrote:
Back in XI, a BLM had to deliberately hold back damage unless they wanted to end up as a grease stain on the ground within 30 seconds of a fight. We learned to count to ten in between low level nukes, and to simply stick with our highest damage spell with its natural 45 second cooldown at endgame.
What I'm hoping for is fights that call for some kind of strategy. Say, you're fighting a boss with wings, and he only takes physical damage when his wings are open. So the DPS stand around while the nukers carefully take him down, then when his wings open you just unload. Then his wings close again, and you have to disengage because you'll start restoring his HP. (This kind of fight was pretty annoying common in Abyssea bosses in FFXI.) You regain all your TP while you wait your turn.
Yeah, you'll be standing around not doing anything a lot. That's called being part of a team. You don't get to be the star all the time.
What I'm hoping for is fights that call for some kind of strategy. Say, you're fighting a boss with wings, and he only takes physical damage when his wings are open. So the DPS stand around while the nukers carefully take him down, then when his wings open you just unload. Then his wings close again, and you have to disengage because you'll start restoring his HP. (This kind of fight was pretty annoying common in Abyssea bosses in FFXI.) You regain all your TP while you wait your turn.
Yeah, you'll be standing around not doing anything a lot. That's called being part of a team. You don't get to be the star all the time.
Standards for MMO entertainment were lower back then. Today, you can design a strategy of conservation in better ways. In FFXI, you all consider doing nothing versus doing something strategy. Today, they consider doing more versus doing something. Same component of strategy. You just aren't standing there, proud of yourself that you're not a spamming drk or blm.
Times have changed. We are past being proud of ourselves that we aren't spamming dark knights.
#29
Jun 17 2013 at 1:15 PM
benjjjamin wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Ok, so it's good game design to be able to spam your skills to no end without care whatsoever? Sorry, I disagree. Like I said, maybe if you had actually played some other classes and learned some cross-class skills... like the lancer ability that restores 300tp every 3 minutes, you'd have liked it more. Or maybe if you understood the concept of conservation of resources in a game, you wouldn't have that problem. To me, it just sounds like you don't understand how to manage your abilities well. That's not a fault of the game, it's a fault of the player.
So to you it's good game design to stand there. That doesn't make any sense, even if you try to spin standing there as strategy. You're standing there in a video game. Warriors won't be able to use lancer abilities. They can use Invigorate. It will not help much, 300 tp is enough to fuel a simple rotation for less than a minute.
Sounds like the sweet spot for management and strategy for you caps out at standing there. I dunno. This isn't strategy to me. It's just boring. To me, strategy would be to know when to switch to a rotation that gains me tp back, and when to use higher-powered rotations.
If you just want to decide when to start and stop doing things, I suppose that counts as strategy too. Boring. Simple. But strategy.
Who said anything about standing there? I just think your rotation is just too TP heavy. I mean, your entire rotation consists of 3 abilities. You are pigeonholing yourself into this TP starvation by not using other abilities or cross-class abilities properly. Did you ever stop and think, gee, I'm running out of TP really fast... perhaps I might want to switch up my rotation to something less taxing. You mentioned this in your post, but did you ever even try to DO it? It sure doesn't sound like it. It sounds like you just tried your rotation, ran out of TP, and came to the forums to complain about it.
I'd rather have a class where I actually have to concentrate on my TP management in order to maximize my DPS and sustainability, than to just constantly be able to spam my top-end abilities without any fear of running out of resources. Almost every mmo I've ever played requires resource management, and you can't just constantly spam your top damage abilities. That's the entire point of having a set amount of resources. It's not poor game design like you seem to think. It's a built in threshold to stop people from just abusing certain skills and neglecting everything else. If that's not strategy to you, I think you're in the wrong genre.
#30
Jun 17 2013 at 1:21 PM
benjjjamin wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Back in XI, a BLM had to deliberately hold back damage unless they wanted to end up as a grease stain on the ground within 30 seconds of a fight. We learned to count to ten in between low level nukes, and to simply stick with our highest damage spell with its natural 45 second cooldown at endgame.
What I'm hoping for is fights that call for some kind of strategy. Say, you're fighting a boss with wings, and he only takes physical damage when his wings are open. So the DPS stand around while the nukers carefully take him down, then when his wings open you just unload. Then his wings close again, and you have to disengage because you'll start restoring his HP. (This kind of fight was pretty annoying common in Abyssea bosses in FFXI.) You regain all your TP while you wait your turn.
Yeah, you'll be standing around not doing anything a lot. That's called being part of a team. You don't get to be the star all the time.
What I'm hoping for is fights that call for some kind of strategy. Say, you're fighting a boss with wings, and he only takes physical damage when his wings are open. So the DPS stand around while the nukers carefully take him down, then when his wings open you just unload. Then his wings close again, and you have to disengage because you'll start restoring his HP. (This kind of fight was pretty annoying common in Abyssea bosses in FFXI.) You regain all your TP while you wait your turn.
Yeah, you'll be standing around not doing anything a lot. That's called being part of a team. You don't get to be the star all the time.
Standards for MMO entertainment were lower back then. Today, you can design a strategy of conservation in better ways. In FFXI, you all consider doing nothing versus doing something strategy. Today, they consider doing more versus doing something. Same component of strategy. You just aren't standing there, proud of yourself that you're not a spamming drk or blm.
Times have changed. We are past being proud of ourselves that we aren't spamming dark knights.
Thing is, there are things you can do that don't involve being engaged with the monster. In FFXI, A DRK/SAM could pop Meditation and have a WS ready and loaded to go. A SAM/WAR could pop Meditation, then Shikikoya to pass the extra TP along to a fellow party member. A MNK could boost up a few times in preparation. A THF/DNC could run in and tap for extra TH then run back out again.
The melee not taking active damage gives your healers a chance to re-buff you instead of spamming cures on you. It also cuts down on traffic in the log, so if there's any ability to be stunned, the DRK who is currently not engaged has a shot at actually seeing the JA fly by in the log.
If you absolutely must be engaged and fighting every single second of a dungeon, then I'm not sure you're the right audience for an MMORPG.
#31
Jun 17 2013 at 1:24 PM
BartelX wrote:
benjjjamin wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Ok, so it's good game design to be able to spam your skills to no end without care whatsoever? Sorry, I disagree. Like I said, maybe if you had actually played some other classes and learned some cross-class skills... like the lancer ability that restores 300tp every 3 minutes, you'd have liked it more. Or maybe if you understood the concept of conservation of resources in a game, you wouldn't have that problem. To me, it just sounds like you don't understand how to manage your abilities well. That's not a fault of the game, it's a fault of the player.
So to you it's good game design to stand there. That doesn't make any sense, even if you try to spin standing there as strategy. You're standing there in a video game. Warriors won't be able to use lancer abilities. They can use Invigorate. It will not help much, 300 tp is enough to fuel a simple rotation for less than a minute.
Sounds like the sweet spot for management and strategy for you caps out at standing there. I dunno. This isn't strategy to me. It's just boring. To me, strategy would be to know when to switch to a rotation that gains me tp back, and when to use higher-powered rotations.
If you just want to decide when to start and stop doing things, I suppose that counts as strategy too. Boring. Simple. But strategy.
Who said anything about standing there? I just think your rotation is just too TP heavy. I mean, your entire rotation consists of 3 abilities. You are pigeonholing yourself into this TP starvation by not using other abilities or cross-class abilities properly. Did you ever stop and think, gee, I'm running out of TP really fast... perhaps I might want to switch up my rotation to something less taxing. You mentioned this in your post, but did you ever even try to DO it? It sure doesn't sound like it. It sounds like you just tried your rotation, ran out of TP, and came to the forums to complain about it.
I'd rather have a class where I actually have to concentrate on my TP management in order to maximize my DPS and sustainability, than to just constantly be able to spam my top-end abilities without any fear of running out of resources. Almost every mmo I've ever played requires resource management, and you can't just constantly spam your top damage abilities. That's the entire point of having a set amount of resources. It's not poor game design like you seem to think. It's a built in threshold to stop people from just abusing certain skills and neglecting everything else. If that's not strategy to you, I think you're in the wrong genre.
If you think level 1, 4, 6, and 10 abilities are the "top-end" abilities, you are DEFINITELY in the wrong genre.
Cross-class abilities are not the solution to a basic entry level class rotation that can't even run.
What I consider the bare minimum of occupation you consider spamming. This is your top gear. This is my 2nd gear. I expect conservation as a strategy to employ tiers of output, one of which is not standing there. You don't expect that.
I expect the same things you do. You just seem to want lower-quality forms of it.
#32
Jun 17 2013 at 1:34 PM
Catwho wrote:
If you absolutely must be engaged and fighting every single second of a dungeon, then I'm not sure you're the right audience for an MMORPG.
MMORPG audiences won't tolerate this system. JRPG audiences will. FFXI audiences will. No, if you don't want to be fighting every second to second and a half GCD, with OGCD in between, I would say the same to you with WoW, Rift, and almost every other MMO that isn't FFXI as evidence that you may not be right for an MMORPG.
I am not sure a MMORPG is what you think it is. It is not FFXI. Not any more. You may be talking about modern action MMOs, which aren't doing well. No one is petitioning for that. You can still develop strategy MMO's with a system up to twice as fast as the current one. The PS3 players can keep up.
#33
Jun 17 2013 at 1:38 PM
benjjjamin wrote:
If you think level 1, 4, 6, and 10 abilities are the "top-end" abilities, you are DEFINITELY in the wrong genre.
Cross-class abilities are not the solution to a basic entry level class rotation that can't even run.
What I consider the bare minimum of occupation you consider spamming. This is your top gear. This is my 2nd gear. I expect conservation as a strategy to employ tiers of output, one of which is not standing there. You don't expect that.
I expect the same things you do. You just seem to want lower-quality forms of it.
Cross-class abilities are not the solution to a basic entry level class rotation that can't even run.
What I consider the bare minimum of occupation you consider spamming. This is your top gear. This is my 2nd gear. I expect conservation as a strategy to employ tiers of output, one of which is not standing there. You don't expect that.
I expect the same things you do. You just seem to want lower-quality forms of it.
Then why are you spamming them in your rotation? Clearly your rotation fails since you can't manage your TP, and you aren't even using top-tier skills. Perhaps instead of constantly ramming your fingers on 111111222222233333222222444444, or whatever your order is, you should actually take a look at your TP, take a look at some of your other skills, and go from there. For instance, did you realize you could equip Internal Release from pug, which grants a 20%, 15s crit increase on a 60s CD? So basically, you could set yourself up for your mass-DPS rotation, throw on internal release and spam your highest DPS rotation. Then when it's over, you'll most likely need to cure up, so you could either cast Cure from conjurer, or pop second wind, and go to your lesser TP rotation. Instead of just constantly spamming your attacks at a furious pace, you slow down a bit, give a second or two between each command, and let your TP start to accumulate (or at least not drop more). Then when your minute is up, start it over again.
Or if you are tanking, apply the same idea but replace internal release with something from gladiator, like flash, or convalescence, or something. Throw in more abilities that consume less TP, but offer other buffing/debuffing/healing effects.
The whole point of cross-class abilities is to provide you with a means of better manipulating a weakness of your character. If that happens to be TP regeneration, use those abilities to frontload your damage and then you can ease off when they aren't up. Not everything has to be a spamfest like you seem to think. Again, that's not a strategy, that's just mindless number mashing.
#34
Jun 17 2013 at 1:45 PM
Marauder has no other cheaper skills to 20. It has more expensive skills. Tomahawk and Overpower.
Crit from pug won't help tp gain.
I'm certainly not curing on marauder, as that time can be better spend doing my job.
I expect all disciples of war to have a basic rotation on the GCD that will not bottom out. I expect all disciples of war to have improved rotations that will bottom out. I can cast all of those abilities you mention in between GCD's in those rotations. That's actually the modern standard.
I don't mean to peg you as an 80 year old going 45 on the highway, white knuckling the steering wheel, but slow down? Are you kidding me? lol....
Crit from pug won't help tp gain.
I'm certainly not curing on marauder, as that time can be better spend doing my job.
I expect all disciples of war to have a basic rotation on the GCD that will not bottom out. I expect all disciples of war to have improved rotations that will bottom out. I can cast all of those abilities you mention in between GCD's in those rotations. That's actually the modern standard.
I don't mean to peg you as an 80 year old going 45 on the highway, white knuckling the steering wheel, but slow down? Are you kidding me? lol....
#35
Jun 17 2013 at 2:02 PM
MRD is SUPPOSED to have expensive TP moves. It's the same as adding a long delay to a weapon with higher dmg. You are being throttled on your dmg, and by spamming all your abilities at once, you are left exhausted in 30 seconds.
Are you aware that these moves are a higher potency than other class's skills at the same level? again, your rotation should be have some auto attacks in there, some self buffs, pace yourself slugger.
Guess what I don't want: To be constantly pressing a button. This isn't Street fighter 2 Turbo Championship Addition. Dynasty Warriors is what you're looking for, maybe?
Edited, Jun 17th 2013 4:02pm by Louiscool
Are you aware that these moves are a higher potency than other class's skills at the same level? again, your rotation should be have some auto attacks in there, some self buffs, pace yourself slugger.
Guess what I don't want: To be constantly pressing a button. This isn't Street fighter 2 Turbo Championship Addition. Dynasty Warriors is what you're looking for, maybe?
Edited, Jun 17th 2013 4:02pm by Louiscool
#36
Jun 17 2013 at 2:10 PM
Quote:
I don't mean to peg you as an 80 year old going 45 on the highway, white knuckling the steering wheel, but slow down? Are you kidding me? lol....
Clearly you've never played lotro.. or ffxi... or swtor, where resource management is built into the game and you can't just go full throttle all the time. Try running a sorc in swtor and see how quick you run out of focus just spamming your abilities. Try running a hunter in lotro. If I sound like an 80-year old going 45 on the highway, then you sound like a 16 year old driving daddies corvette and wondering why you crashed headfirst into the wall when you were going 120.If you don't want to deal with resource management, go back to a game where it doesn't exist.
There are plenty of games out there, many of them current, that require it as a part of the skill of playing the class. It's not my fault you aren't capable of it or choose to ignore it. I gave you several options on how to avoid running out, instead you just want to keep your foot all the way down on the pedal without a care in the world. That's cool, there are games that will cater to that, so go play them. I'm completely content with managing my resources and not just spamming everything I can get my hands on simply because it's there.
Anyways, think whatever you want. You think it's bad design to resource manage, I think it's just as silly to constantly spam. I don't think it's bad design, because I'm not too stubborn to understand that there are varying ways to design a game, all of which can be effective. Hopefully some day you can learn that and enjoy a game for what it is.
#37
Jun 17 2013 at 2:11 PM
Catwho wrote:
Back in XI, a BLM had to deliberately hold back damage unless they wanted to end up as a grease stain on the ground within 30 seconds of a fight. We learned to count to ten in between low level nukes, and to simply stick with our highest damage spell with its natural 45 second cooldown at endgame.
Another example of that was pre-nerf RNG. If all you did was spam ranged attacks, you would be dead the second your shadows dropped. Instead, you often had to really hold back and be incredibly careful with your weapon skills. Even after the nerf, RNG still had that problem during exp.
Regarding benjjjamin, try to think of it like a fighting game. If you can win every fight just by button mashing, then it's not a very good game. Blocking and positioning tend to be very important factors in those types of games. In the case of FFXIV, you have limitations put in place in order to make the game more challenging. SE wants you to both plan and think about what you're going to do during a battle. They don't want you to just stand there spamming the same few abilities when there are so many other options available.
#38
Jun 17 2013 at 2:40 PM
FrozenSherbet wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Back in XI, a BLM had to deliberately hold back damage unless they wanted to end up as a grease stain on the ground within 30 seconds of a fight. We learned to count to ten in between low level nukes, and to simply stick with our highest damage spell with its natural 45 second cooldown at endgame.
Another example of that was pre-nerf RNG. If all you did was spam ranged attacks, you would be dead the second your shadows dropped. Instead, you often had to really hold back and be incredibly careful with your weapon skills. Even after the nerf, RNG still had that problem during exp.
Regarding benjjjamin, try to think of it like a fighting game. If you can win every fight just by button mashing, then it's not a very good game. Blocking and positioning tend to be very important factors in those types of games. In the case of FFXIV, you have limitations put in place in order to make the game more challenging. SE wants you to both plan and think about what you're going to do during a battle. They don't want you to just stand there spamming the same few abilities when there are so many other options available.
Pre-nerf? Hell, even POST-nerf of Rng!
Rng/War 55+ was the most nerve-wracking experience I had in FFXI. Time that Sidewinder poorly and it's a dirt nap for you. I had to hold back all the time with a Nin tank, and those glorious days when you got a GOOD pld tank... oh man.. That be some dead-*** colibri.
Edited, Jun 17th 2013 4:41pm by Louiscool
#39
Jun 17 2013 at 2:47 PM
Louiscool wrote:
FrozenSherbet wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Back in XI, a BLM had to deliberately hold back damage unless they wanted to end up as a grease stain on the ground within 30 seconds of a fight. We learned to count to ten in between low level nukes, and to simply stick with our highest damage spell with its natural 45 second cooldown at endgame.
Another example of that was pre-nerf RNG. If all you did was spam ranged attacks, you would be dead the second your shadows dropped. Instead, you often had to really hold back and be incredibly careful with your weapon skills. Even after the nerf, RNG still had that problem during exp.
Regarding benjjjamin, try to think of it like a fighting game. If you can win every fight just by button mashing, then it's not a very good game. Blocking and positioning tend to be very important factors in those types of games. In the case of FFXIV, you have limitations put in place in order to make the game more challenging. SE wants you to both plan and think about what you're going to do during a battle. They don't want you to just stand there spamming the same few abilities when there are so many other options available.
Pre-nerf? Hell, even POST-nerf of Rng!
Rng/War 55+ was the most nerve-wracking experience I had in FFXI. Time that Sidewinder poorly and it's a dirt nap for you. I had to hold back all the time with a Nin tank, and those glorious days when you got a GOOD pld tank... oh man.. That be some dead-*** colibri.
Edited, Jun 17th 2013 4:41pm by Louiscool
Pretty much any DPS worked this way once they got their big ticket WS. Sam/rng with soboro was unbelievably fun, but deadly if the fights lasted longer than seigan did. Thankfully they almost never did... Sidewinder > meditate > Sidewinder > Sidewinder in a 8s window killed pretty much anything that moved.
Same for warrior pre-74. If you subbed ninja, a good rampage would rip hate off and you'd tank til the mob died. When shadows went down, you were in trouble. Drk, use SE>guillotine and you could kill yourself before even finishing the WS animation.
#40
Jun 17 2013 at 2:50 PM
Keep in mind that Final Fantasy is a social game. The idea is to communicate, work with your party, avoid attacks, position yourself. There is far more to combat than stand infront of the mob and hit each other until one falls down.
Spamming buttons in an MMO is not something that I will play, and I like the fact that this game does not require it. Yeah, as a gla, I need to use my mp combo nearly constantly to keep my flash up, and when I have enough of a gap inbetween, or the mob count is low enough, switch to my damage combo. And depending on the situation stun, buff my def, call out a limit break, pop an ether or hi-pot depending on if the mage trades focus to the kiter, or I needed to damage spike for the kill-zerg, or the dink mobs begin swarming, and I need to use flash after each ws.
There is a lot even at a low level, with very little in the way of abilities that I am constantly debating, and determining what is the best thing to do in the current situation.
With all the fights being new to me, and no known strats, it is flying by the seat of your pants combat, adjusting to the situation as you go.
Now with that said, nothing is too difficult, it only takes 1-2 tries to figure things out, and once you have it down, you can hold to it. But, I have run out of MP and TP as a gla in battle the mob swarm in Copperbell, as well as the ooze fight there. It required a really good understanding of what to expect and when to expect it. We charged in, and kept fighting, while we had people trying different things to determine how to handle the fight, and all the while, I was running around trying to collect the mobs, and keep them on me and off the mage. This cut back on mp and tp regain as I was non-stop spamming mp ws and flash to the point my tp pool was dropping too low, and I would just use flash while I waiting on mp, at which point my mp pool would go low so I would burn my tp to get mp... it was an impressive drain on what until then felt like an endless supply of both.
Spamming buttons in an MMO is not something that I will play, and I like the fact that this game does not require it. Yeah, as a gla, I need to use my mp combo nearly constantly to keep my flash up, and when I have enough of a gap inbetween, or the mob count is low enough, switch to my damage combo. And depending on the situation stun, buff my def, call out a limit break, pop an ether or hi-pot depending on if the mage trades focus to the kiter, or I needed to damage spike for the kill-zerg, or the dink mobs begin swarming, and I need to use flash after each ws.
There is a lot even at a low level, with very little in the way of abilities that I am constantly debating, and determining what is the best thing to do in the current situation.
With all the fights being new to me, and no known strats, it is flying by the seat of your pants combat, adjusting to the situation as you go.
Now with that said, nothing is too difficult, it only takes 1-2 tries to figure things out, and once you have it down, you can hold to it. But, I have run out of MP and TP as a gla in battle the mob swarm in Copperbell, as well as the ooze fight there. It required a really good understanding of what to expect and when to expect it. We charged in, and kept fighting, while we had people trying different things to determine how to handle the fight, and all the while, I was running around trying to collect the mobs, and keep them on me and off the mage. This cut back on mp and tp regain as I was non-stop spamming mp ws and flash to the point my tp pool was dropping too low, and I would just use flash while I waiting on mp, at which point my mp pool would go low so I would burn my tp to get mp... it was an impressive drain on what until then felt like an endless supply of both.
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/729735/
#41
Jun 17 2013 at 2:52 PM
BartelX wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
FrozenSherbet wrote:
Catwho wrote:
Back in XI, a BLM had to deliberately hold back damage unless they wanted to end up as a grease stain on the ground within 30 seconds of a fight. We learned to count to ten in between low level nukes, and to simply stick with our highest damage spell with its natural 45 second cooldown at endgame.
Another example of that was pre-nerf RNG. If all you did was spam ranged attacks, you would be dead the second your shadows dropped. Instead, you often had to really hold back and be incredibly careful with your weapon skills. Even after the nerf, RNG still had that problem during exp.
Regarding benjjjamin, try to think of it like a fighting game. If you can win every fight just by button mashing, then it's not a very good game. Blocking and positioning tend to be very important factors in those types of games. In the case of FFXIV, you have limitations put in place in order to make the game more challenging. SE wants you to both plan and think about what you're going to do during a battle. They don't want you to just stand there spamming the same few abilities when there are so many other options available.
Pre-nerf? Hell, even POST-nerf of Rng!
Rng/War 55+ was the most nerve-wracking experience I had in FFXI. Time that Sidewinder poorly and it's a dirt nap for you. I had to hold back all the time with a Nin tank, and those glorious days when you got a GOOD pld tank... oh man.. That be some dead-*** colibri.
Edited, Jun 17th 2013 4:41pm by Louiscool
Pretty much any DPS worked this way once they got their big ticket WS. Sam/rng with soboro was unbelievably fun, but deadly if the fights lasted longer than seigan did. Thankfully they almost never did... Sidewinder > meditate > Sidewinder > Sidewinder in a 8s window killed pretty much anything that moved.
Same for warrior pre-74. If you subbed ninja, a good rampage would rip hate off and you'd tank til the mob died. When shadows went down, you were in trouble. Drk, use SE>guillotine and you could kill yourself before even finishing the WS animation.
One thing I really liked to do was to have two WAR/NINs tank pre-74. A lot of WARs I partied with would refuse to do it, but it was a fun way to tank. Between Provoke, Warcry, and Rampage, it was really easy to swap hate back and forth. Add to the fact that WARs could take a hit way better than NINs, it was a great way to go.
Edited, Jun 17th 2013 4:54pm by FrozenSherbet
#42
Jun 17 2013 at 2:59 PM
FrozenSherbert wrote:
One thing I really liked to do was to have two WAR/NINs tank pre-74. A lot of WARs I partied with would refuse to do it, but it was a really fun way to tank. Between Provoke, Warcry, and Rampage, it was really easy to swap hate back and forth. Add to the fact that WARs could take a hit way better than NINs, it was really a great way to go.
Absolutely, I loved doing this as well. It was an excellent and effective alternative to having a nin or pld tank. It's unfortunate that a lot of players did refuse to do it, as it was extremely efficient if done properly. War 1 vokes, shadow, shadow, shadow/ichi, shadow, shadow, shadow, war 2 vokes, repeat.... first gets ichi up, rampage, second gets ichi up, rampage, mob dead... every time.
Of course, as soon as I capped my GA, I swapped to that and never looked back. 2.5k Raging Rushes were just so sexy after the 2h buff. Using the Sea GA that required the virtue stones and had the 50% double attack to it was just so much fun when /sam. It was a WS every 5-10s. Well, this topic has officially been sidetracked.
#43REDACTED,
Posted: Jun 17 2013 at 3:34 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I never had a problem going 120 in FFXI on warrior after initial threat building. Then again, we kindof pitched fun at Soboro sams so I dunno. Get better tanks? We shouldn't be expected to slow down the new genre's standards for some ffxi vets. There aren't enough of them.
#44
Jun 17 2013 at 3:39 PM
-REDACTED-
Scholar
1,339 posts
benjjjamin wrote:
I never had a problem going 120 in FFXI on warrior after initial threat building. Then again, we kindof pitched fun at Soboro sams so I dunno. Get better tanks? We shouldn't be expected to slow down the new genre's standards for some ffxi vets. There aren't enough of them.
Judging by the response on the beta forums, from the top ls's down, it probably will be changed. I'm sorry you need this much time. The genre has left you behind.
Judging by the response on the beta forums, from the top ls's down, it probably will be changed. I'm sorry you need this much time. The genre has left you behind.
If you didn't have problems going full throttle on Warrior after "initial hate building" (which clearly shows you don't understand a damned thing about how the enmity system worked in FFXI to begin with), then your 120 was really pathetic. Even before Abyssea blew the doors off and showed everyone how badly flawed it was Warrior was a damage and threat machine and if you didn't have any problems at all then clearly you weren't pulling your weight.
And I can state this with a 100% fact because the enmity system hadn't changed from launch until about two months ago: if you didn't have a problem going 120 on Warrior, you sucked. Badly.
~~~~~
BartelX is right; you sound like a whiney teenager that needs his speed fix. Go back to another MMO where resource management is an alien concept to you.
The fact that you're even mentioning this without full group buffs and endgame quality gear (with appropriate materia melding) is ridiculous in and of itself.
Edited, Jun 17th 2013 5:41pm by Viertel
#45REDACTED,
Posted: Jun 17 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Where is it stated that marauder is supposed to be tp starved because of its potency...have you seen how much pugs and lancers out stdps the potency you claim is an advantage in phase 3? That doesn't make any sense. This is the mmo genre, louis. Abilities every second or less is the standard.
#46
Jun 17 2013 at 3:48 PM
benjjjamin wrote:
I never had a problem going 120 in FFXI on warrior after initial threat building. Then again, we kindof pitched fun at Soboro sams so I dunno.
Don't worry, people often make fun of what they can't comprehend or don't understand. Just fyi, I also had a Hagun and pretty much any endgame gear that was available at 75 and was in the top NA endgame shell on Carbuncle. That didn't mean I didn't have fun and experiment in merit parties or while leveling up. Way to make ridiculous assumptions without knowing anything about me though.
benjjjamin wrote:
Judging by the response on the beta forums, from the top ls's down, it probably will be changed. I'm sorry you need this much time. The genre has left you behind.
Lol, that's a pretty sad troll attempt right there. Considering I've played pretty much every modern mmo out there, including endgame raiding in swtor, WoW, lotro, gw2 pvp (there really isn't pve endgame), etc... I don't think anything has left me behind. I just think you're being stubborn and refusing to see any other viewpoint and crying because you can't cope with a system that doesn't work exactly how you want it to. At least the one bonus is, if they do change it, I don't have to read your whine threads about how it's too tough for you to manage resources in a game.
Viertel wrote:
If you didn't have problems going full throttle on Warrior after "initial hate building" (which clearly shows you don't understand a damned thing about how the enmity system worked in FFXI to begin with), then your 120 was really pathetic. Even before Abyssea blew the doors off and showed everyone how badly flawed it was Warrior was a damage and threat machine and if you didn't have any problems at all then clearly you weren't pulling your weight.
And I can state this with a 100% fact because the enmity system hadn't changed from launch until about two months ago: if you didn't have a problem going 120 on Warrior, you sucked. Badly.
I was actually in the process of writing this exact thing when you posted.
Edited, Jun 17th 2013 5:49pm by BartelX
#47REDACTED,
Posted: Jun 17 2013 at 3:51 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) And yet I still had no trouble. If what you claim is true, then there was no reason to not invite thieves and drgs in ffxi from years 3-7. And yet there were reasons. My warrior certainly beat a soboro sam without dying. It sadly put out more than thf or drg without this needing to hold back that you all keep citing.
#48
Jun 17 2013 at 3:54 PM
Sooooo... Rift's mindlessly spamming everything you have while being curebombed = strategy, while FFXIV's limits on abilites that force you to make choices in your behavior =/= strategy.
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