On the subject of in-game same-sex marriage....Follow

/em prepares to be rated down for his beliefs...

If you care that much about getting a "gay marriage" in game why don't you spend your time more wisely and get something accomplished outside of the virtual world? Not a flame by any means, but if it is that big of a topic to you why not get the rights to gay marriage in real life first then bring the fight to a video game?

I don't condone gay/lesbians, as a matter of fact... it honestly makes my stomach turn. I feel that it is not natural. I feel that it is fundamentally wrong. I am Christian, but by no means am I a bible thumper. I don't regularly go to church. I don't even know if I really believe the majority of Christianity. Honestly though, in game marrriage would go against the same believes I hold in real life. I'm sure many other people feel the same, even people who aren't "bible thumpers."

As far as your bottom two paragraphs were you proclaim that society doesn't include you, I have a few things to say.

Society doesn't include a lot of the minority. There isn't a lot of images that I can relate to on TV. I can't relate to the high upper class. I can't relate to the teenage shows. I can't relate to SpongeBobSquarePants (even though it is a great show :). I can't relate to a lot of stuff on TV. I go to college, and I work about 20 hours a week. Usually, college shows on TV shows the immature college student getting hammered on weekends and smoking pot. Unfortunately, that's not the cass. Is society singling me out too? Am I angry because I can't smoke pot or drink in the game? No. It is SE's world and this is how they made it.

If you feel "excluded" because you can't marry in game, then I'm sorry. I can't imagine how you feel NOT being able to get a gay marriage in real life.

Edited, Mon Aug 9 08:38:04 2004 by Trinitee

How many people do relate to Spong Bob? ;)

I think he's upset that SE made it a point to single out gays and said they couldn't be married, not so much that he wants to get married and can't. Imagine if they made it so that every female character couldn't be the only linksack holder in a linkshell (trying to think of something analgous to the the Glass Ceiling in corporate America). Now, most LS have multiple sack holders, but how offended would women be if they were discriminated against in game as a reflection of the way society feels. Although I'm not gay, I can understand the OP's anger.

He probably feels the same way about IRL marriages and in-game marrigaes.

Just because I'm a git.

http://www.primates.com/bonobos/bonobosexsoc.html
Bonobo Monkeys do ;p
Oh BBC Two where would I be without you.

I think that the issue is not about what the church thinks. The question is why did Square Enix decide that charecters couldn't marry out of the law of averages 1 guy 1 gal format?

Well, why can't you play a transvestite? Or play a charecter of ambigious sex? Shoot, why cant 1 male charecter have 10 wives?Or a female charecter have 10 husbands...

Its probably the same reason that every crab looks the same.

Square makes and propigates this game for money. When marriages were discussed by the people who created this game, I imagine that the issue of same sex marriages did come up. And at some point someone bet that not bothering to make it fair would lose them no customers.

Yes, its obnoxious that in a game with races that have only one sex, they cannot get married. Yes, there are plenty of people that would want in game same sex marriage because, perhaps, they are lovers out of game, or want to express thier sexuality online, or are both mithra or both galka, or just felt like roleplaying a gay charecter.

The real problem is that square's officialness of marriage leaves them out. There is nothing I can suggest to do thats right. If you hold your own cerimony, then there is an implication that the games creators didn't care about you. Its a happy event, but you would end up feeling like your being pushed out of the way. If you boycott the game, then noones standing up for what you think.

I think posting a link to a petition (im pretty sure there is one somewhere, and if you post it in the OP, so much the better) to square to allow free marriage of charecters would be the best option. Because while they might just be 'video game charecters' to other people, the levels you gain, the equipment you buy, the quests and trials you overcome to gain titles and respect.... you have put alot of yourself into your charecter. Its an Avatar of your efforts. Its not just 'one silly little thing' to be able to have your charecter express themselves in a same sex wedding. You can play any combination of jobs, even if they don't really mix. So why is square unable to let people play as Groom/Groom? No good reason.

I'm almost at a loss for words. Look it's not that hard:
Disrimination is defined as: Treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice.

Homosexuals are a social class, just are women, blacks, children, disabled people, senior citizens, people with blue hair, etc. Homosexuals are SPECIFICALLY deined the right to get married by Square. You cited their reason for this as they believe it's immoral. Their reason doesn't matter. It could be anything, but they still singled out gays and said they couldn't marry.

Erm WTF?


Same sex characters can't marry ~_~
Never any where have they said "If your gay no marriage for you!"
1.Why would they risk loss of buisness like this?
2.How would they know?

Sorry, this could have been a bit more clear. I'm assuming the characters are "real-life" in that each is a social class. In game, they're discriminating against same sex marriages -- marriages between homosexuals (same sex).

When I said gays, I didn't mean gay people in real life. I meant the "gay" characters. Because they are discriminating against "gay" characters, gays in real life have a right to be offended. How would you feel if female characters weren't given all the JA's that male characters were?

Edited, Mon Aug 9 09:27:03 2004 by vxvenom

The way I see it, SE should have done one of two things. Either:

A) Allowed any character to marry any other character.
B) Stipulated it so that you had to stick to male/female of the same species.

Now yes, I know that means that Mithra and Galka would not be allowed to be married since the other sexes are not played. The reason I am saying this is because how many cross-species characters do you see? If cross species marriages are ok, you would probably see their offspring. By setting this limitation as well as the same sex, you are being at least a little more fair. But then I guess you would get the people who would interpret it as racist.

Not necessarily a solution, but then at least they would not have been solely offending the homosexual players.

Thanks Sabo. I look foward to when youve had some rest ;)

Sorry if my post had gotten long by the way, (it could have been longer but lunch called).

I appreciate your respect on the matter, and Im glad that you are quite respectable yourself for not flaming me for opposing your view. Too often have I seen others on your side of the fence simply pass such an agrument off by quoting christians hate gays. Im sure there are those on my side of the fence as well, who while claiming christianity, flame gays or other opposition. There are few but those few are heard much more loudly unfortunately than the rest of christians.

In light of christianity and what is clearly taught in scripture is that sin leads to death. We are called to live a life not under sin, but in compliance with God's law. Just like adultry is wrong, so is homosexuality or any other sin.

I personally dont think we should have governmental laws against homosexuality. Why? Because its just not something you can restrict by human law, or punish in this day in age by a government. You can have that choice in America. However, its no less wrong to do so, and if taken from a biblical perspective, you shouldnt be given equal or fair place in comparison with those who chose to live according to God's establishment of marriage or even a governmental establishment of marriage if it calls for the same thing.

Just like the arguement 'well if you dont like whats on tv, you can change the channel', you can happily leave America for a country that agrees with you if you dont like its rules. That choice even if difficult to do is still available. Take Sweden for instance, nice place to live in the summer at least. (Im not asking you to leave just making a point.)

In Israels day you would have been tossed out of camp and stoned, along with your neighbor who happened to break the Sabbath. When Christ came, that changed, because the law was fulfilled by him for at least a main reason. The grace of God was extended to Gentiles as well as Jews.


I think in this day in age though we have a problem with what love is. We have been taught by television among other things that it is just an emotion. That you should just follow your heart, etc etc.
Love isnt just an emotion, it is a matter of the will. You chose whom you will love. You can chose not to love someone. You do it all the time. You can chose whether to be gay or not or an adulter or not, or a thief or not, or a liar or not.
If we fail to have selfcontrol then it is either because we are mere animals and nothing more, or its because we are sinners if taken from a biblical perspective.

Anyway I hope that helps you some from the biblical perspective. I know you disagree, but im glad you are willing to at least review such a perspective. I know i havent done justice to the Bible in all that it contains, but I hope for now its sufficient. I look foward to hearing more from your side.

Peace out.

Quote:
*Just because I'm a git.

http://www.primates.com/bonobos/bonobosexsoc.html
Bonobo Monkeys do ;p
Oh BBC Two where would I be without you.*


I read your nifty article. Congradulations you found one animal species out of the hundred of thousands on earth. However, just like all the other ones, they depend on heterosexual activity to sustain their species. Furthermore as i was saying in the section you quoted, that if all we are is animals, sure have it like your bobos.
Would you also like to find me the transitional species from this one to ours? Considering there arent any youd have a tough time. The discontinuity between us and monkeys is relatively the same as it is to fish. Transitional Darwinian evolution has no proof, there are no transitional species found anywhere in nature. You could hold to a salutational view if you like, but thats a miracle view even more so than God just created the world and it exits the world of science.
In order to change the dominant view that homosexuality is wrong by science you would have to find thousands of species where it occurs.
Cats will hump your table leg. They are animals, the question is are we something more? And if we are, what gives us that something more?

I ramble a bit in this post...Kinda free associating. ^_^

First, a statement that bears repeating: S-E is definitely in a damned if you do, damned if you don't position. We all know why they made the choice that they did...if they allowed same-sex marriages in the game, it'd be picked up by CNN as an interesting twist on the marriage debate, and embroil S-E in a debate it *doesn't* want to get into.

People will always be struck by fear when someone makes a statement against our beliefs. This is another reason why I dislike the Karma system...We're always looking over our shoulder fearful of the Rate Down.



This is just my , but I've learned the hard way that belonging and acceptance comes from within, not from without. The hard part in any Square Peg's life (whether it's sexual orientation or prediliction for comic books)is ignoring those that give the nasty, jaded, and cruel labels and really seeing those that can reaffirm you as a person.

There's a show I notice you didn't mention, Saboruto: ***** Eye for the Straight Guy. I personally love this show, not just because it's a fun "reality makeover" series, but because it portrays gay men as funny, confident, intelligent people who are sure not only of themselves, but sure in their ability to help others see themselves in a better light. If you haven't seen it, I reccomend it. :)

Respect for people as themselves, and not for their labels, is out there if you look for it. I hope you find that sense of acceptance...I know you'll find people here on the Net who can cheer you on. We board posters love to give and get support. :)