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On the subject of in-game same-sex marriage....Follow

#452 Aug 10 2004 at 8:08 PM Rating: Decent
Incidentally, you quoted one sentence but somehow missed these:

Quote:
"Physiological differences of this sort are highly unlikely to be caused by differences in experience or upbringing," said McFadden.


Quote:
For male subjects identifying themselves as homosexual, the brain waves were shifted away from those of both the heterosexual males and heterosexual females. "A good way to describe the data from the homosexual males is that they appeared to be hyper-masculinized," said Craig Champlin, associate professor of communication sciences and disorders at the University and co-author of the study.

"This is especially interesting because other recent experiments have also found hyper-masculinization effects in homosexual males. For example, ***** size is greater in homosexuals than in heterosexuals," said Champlin.


Quote:
The authors of the study postulate that the same etiology underlies the volume difference; that perhaps the effects of masculinizing hormones encountered during fetal development may be higher in homosexual women, as in men and could account for the decreased otoacoustic emission volume in both groups. There is some evidence to suggest this could be true since females in male/female fraternal twin pairs that can be exposed to higher concentrations of male hormones during fetal development, have quieter evoked otoacoustic emissions.


Also, I'm editing out the 2nd half of the 2nd article, that talks about epilepsy, since it has nothing to do with this argument and I quoted too much of the medical site I found it on.
#453 Aug 10 2004 at 8:10 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:

Does that refer to the soundwaves produce by music: ie. Cher and Abba


You forgot to mention Wham and Culture Club.

(though I'm straight and am a closet WHAM fan)
#454 Aug 10 2004 at 8:10 PM Rating: Decent
19 posts
I have only been lurking for the most part but I wanted to put in my two cents for what it is worth. As an african american player I could complain and say why arent any of the humes different shades color in skin, but the way I see is at the end of the day I just enjoy playing the game. Maybe one they will have a expansion that give me more characters that look like me. Until then I love roleplaying games to much to give up on them. LOL. The point is most developers cant please everyone all the time and they will most likely try to apease the majority.
#455 Aug 10 2004 at 8:11 PM Rating: Good
Are your brain patterns that way because you choose to be homosexual? Were the brain patterns always that way?

Does this prove that homosexuality is a physiological condition like clinical depression?

Can a pill cure homosexuality?

Oh wait, thats right, we're talking about marriage! Back on topic please
#456 Aug 10 2004 at 8:11 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
"Physiological differences of this sort are highly unlikely to be caused by differences in experience or upbringing," said McFadden.


That was in reference to the size of there FINGERS. Please.

Quote:
"This is especially interesting because other recent experiments have also found hyper-masculinization effects in homosexual males. For example, ***** size is greater in homosexuals than in heterosexuals," said Champlin.


Now it's a **** measuring contest? No. If I have a big *****, that means I'm homosexual?

Quote:
The authors of the study postulate


Didn't need to read past that point. They are merely guessing.




My point is, there is no HARD scientific evidence that shows homosexuality is something born. If you have more, I'll gladly read it.
#457 Aug 10 2004 at 8:12 PM Rating: Good
And what all that indicates is that there are physiological differences between heterosexuals and homosexuals. There are mental and emotional differences as well. All of that points to the idea that homosexuals are BORN that way. Someone asked for evidence to support the belief that people are born gay and do not choose to be gay, I've provided some. I'm happy to provide more if it's truly necessary. But people don't physically change suddenly, their brain make-ups don't alter, just because they choose to bleach their hair. These differences can only be accounted for during the developmental stages, i.e. "in the womb". The evidence is stacking up that gay people are born gay.
#458 Aug 10 2004 at 8:13 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Oh wait, thats right, we're talking about marriage! Back on topic please


If homosexuality is a "medical illness" or not, is on topic. That fact changes a lot about whether gay marriage should be legal or not.
#459 Aug 10 2004 at 8:13 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
My point is, there is no HARD scientific evidence that shows homosexuality is something born. If you have more, I'll gladly read it.


But you did find the answer to that!

Quote:
"This is especially interesting because other recent experiments have also found hyper-masculinization effects in homosexual males. For example, ***** size is greater in homosexuals than in heterosexuals," said Champlin.


That's as hard as evidence as you can get.

BWHAHAHAHHAHA

Edited, Tue Aug 10 21:14:07 2004 by Vercetti
#460 Aug 10 2004 at 8:13 PM Rating: Good
I think the last thing the homosexual community wants is for mainstream people to think that homos have some sort of brain defect that makes their clock run backwards.....
#461 Aug 10 2004 at 8:14 PM Rating: Default
Ok after i read most of this Junk, Im very Sick, I think this is none of anyones Busnis And if ur a **** like many other people keep it locked up ni the closet cause noone and i mean noone wants to hear it, And if ur gay why do u want to pull attion to ur self i know a **** whos in hospital cause he kissed a friend of mine and they all bet the crap out of him. Ya so i quess he wont be kissing many guys anymore for a while,


So the truth is keep that **** Botteld up go crazy kill some people just dont be a *** But on the other hand Sexy Lesbos are best kind ^_^ lol,


Thanks for reading my thaughts on all this Gay stuff lol
#462 Aug 10 2004 at 8:15 PM Rating: Decent
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81 posts
Quote:
And what all that indicates is that there are physiological differences between heterosexuals and homosexuals. There are mental and emotional differences as well.


Hmm. I hope they didn't spend a lot of money on that study.
#463 Aug 10 2004 at 8:17 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
And what all that indicates is that there are physiological differences between heterosexuals and homosexuals.


There is physiological differences between blacks and whites. Between greeks and romans. No human is the same. To group humans by physiological traits is wrong.

Quote:
There are mental and emotional differences as well. All of that points to the idea that homosexuals are BORN that way.


There is mental and emotional differences between all humans.


Quote:
The evidence is stacking up that gay people are born gay.


There is no evidence.


Look. I can say, I was born to play basketball. I was born differently. My feet are size 10 where a normal 5'9" person has size 8. Most basketball players on my team had size 10. We were born to play basketball. We were born physiological different. It just DOESN'T make sense.

EDIT : Not to mention, it is a scientist postulate. Meaning there best guess. Meaning, they could and might be absolutely wrong.

Edited, Tue Aug 10 21:18:32 2004 by Trinitee
#464 Aug 10 2004 at 8:19 PM Rating: Good
Look, you asked for proof, I gave some of the evidence available to you. Yes, they were talking about fingers and penises. Fingers and penises do not change size just because you make a decision. That is evidence that there are PHYSIOLOGICAL differences between heterosexuals and homosexuals. Which is to say, it's evidence that people are born gay. Exactly what you asked for, I gave. Now you can't bury your head in the sand just because you don't like the evidence, it's unscientific.

Quote:
Are your brain patterns that way because you choose to be homosexual? Were the brain patterns always that way?

Does this prove that homosexuality is a physiological condition like clinical depression?

Can a pill cure homosexuality?

Oh wait, thats right, we're talking about marriage! Back on topic please


Trinitee asked for evidence, I gave it to him/her. Your reading comprehension skills seem a bit lacking if that's all you were capable of drawing from those articles. And now you're just trying to be antagonistic. I AM on topic, because Trinitee asked for evidence to support the claim that people don't choose to be gay, and I gave it. And as I said, it's more than just brain patterns. It's also external physical differences as well. Are you proposing that homosexual men must go out and get *****-extension surgery just to try to prove that we're all born gay? Maybe lesbians find long fingers sexy so they go get surgery too, eh?

Look, if you're not going to listen to the evidence I'm giving, if you're not going to actually READ what I have to say, then you're wasting my time. If you're going to do nothing but take shots at my evidence without producing your own, you're not debating. In that case, you're trolling. I would LOVE to see some of your evidence.
#465 Aug 10 2004 at 8:20 PM Rating: Decent
LOL, just had a wild thought!

I know for a fact that if a married gay couple moved into my neighborhood people would start moving out. They wouldnt want their kids to be playing in the street and see George kiss Micheal before he went to work. This is reality.

Oh, and imagine the impact on the private sector. All of a sudden companies will be obligated to extend health insurance to **** married couples. How productive would that be since a major reason people cover their loved ones in the first place is because they plan on raising a family??

Gay marriage! Hah! I'm glad you feel equal, thanks for all the destruction in your wake... Oh, and thanks for rasing what is already a userous price for insurance too! Hurray for equality!

Oh, and i dont read junk science articles. It's all speculative at best.. You jump to conclusions yet again about me.

Edited, Tue Aug 10 21:22:06 2004 by Lefein
#466 Aug 10 2004 at 8:21 PM Rating: Good
Saboruto, I suggest looking at this link...

http://www.newdirection.ca/a_biol.htm

Please, read the whole thing. Then post.
#467 Aug 10 2004 at 8:25 PM Rating: Default
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81 posts
Are there any studies relating to being metrosexual?
#468 Aug 10 2004 at 8:27 PM Rating: Decent
The problem with showing research papers is that it tends to reflect the opinion of whoever is funding and housing it. For instance, the US govt. wouldn't want to fund genetic research in search of a "gay gene" because it would offend some. A christian university such as Notre Dame wouldn't want to hold such studies because it comes across ground that violates cannon law.

The same is applied for the converse as well.
#469 Aug 10 2004 at 8:28 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Are there any studies relating to being metrosexual?


Yes, there is. Watch episodes of American Idol and listen to the Ryan Secrest morning show, as well as that live show he does during the day.
#470 Aug 10 2004 at 8:31 PM Rating: Excellent
Anyone care to justify that rate down? Ha, I doubt it. The reason I brought it up is....

You are a normal, apple pie eatin' red blooded american. You dont want your kids to be exposed to this homosexual marriage jibba jabba... You spend good money for your house and want to send your kids to a nice school. Then George and Michael move in next door.. Well, you move out. Then the next neighborhood you move to you ask the Home Owners Association "Say, you got any of them funny folk in this neighborhood?"

"No, no!" says the HOA

Two years later Billy and John move in and they are oh so super fabulous together.

Now eventually, there will be enough people in this situation where "****-free" neighborhoods will be established. Where people can feel safe to raise their family in an environment to their liking.

Whether or not you agree with the political philosophy it will happen! I'm just warning you of things that could be and are yet to come to pass.
#471 Aug 10 2004 at 8:40 PM Rating: Good
And that's why I didn't pull anything from either of those studies. Both were proven to be unscientific in some way. Do they make me look right? Yes. But I am not going to try to mix words to "trick" people into thinking I'm right. I'm not going to use unscientific studies to support my position. The nice part is, I don't have to.

And the fact of the matter is, I'm gay. I've always been gay. I tried to kill myself three times during my teenage years because I was raised to be a good little Christain, Southern Baptist as a matter of fact, and I was taught to hate gay people. I didn't WANT to be gay, I did everything in my power NOT to be gay. I have been there, I have experienced it, and *I* am telling you that being gay is not a choice. I have IMPIRICAL evidence. You're straight, I'm gay, and you're trying to tell ME about being gay? Trust me, if any of us is an authority on the subject it would be me.

One thing I will say, when Lefein chooses to stick to debating instead of insults, he can raise some very good points. And Trinitee, I respect you a lot because ALL you've done is raise points. You haven't insulted me or called me a "****" or a "***", you simply argue your case. MUCH better than the sporadic "gays r sick!!!1" posts that pop up in this topic from time to time. I do wish you guys would produce some evidence of your own though, instead of just trying to debunk mine. Debate is fun for me, and I'd like to see what some of the anti-gay evidence is.
#472 Aug 10 2004 at 8:44 PM Rating: Decent
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440 posts
Attitudes towards in-game content will not change unless the status-quo in real life changes first.

So if your expecting FFXI to change then I'm sorry to dissapoint but it is not going to happen.

And considering that this is an MMORPG, your gonna have to convince more than just 1 country to change it's status quo.
#473 Aug 10 2004 at 8:44 PM Rating: Decent
damn. gay southern baptist. sorry to hear they treated you so badly. I may have a dis-likeing for gays in some extent, but I would never hate one.
#474 Aug 10 2004 at 8:45 PM Rating: Good
Lefein, I've kinda reached the point in this topic where I feel it's probably best not to watch your karma too closely. People are rating me up and down faster than alla's servers can keep up. Any time someone voices an opinion on a controversial issue, no matter how cut-and-dry or scientific or considerately they phrase their statement, there's going to be someone here who's going to feel the need to be vindictive about it. Rate-ups and rate-downs aren't put there so people can punish someone for thinking differently. I'll give you a few rate-ups to hopefully help balance your karma out, and I would ask that everyone (anti-gay and pro-gay alike) stop rating people based on ideology and instead rate based on content. I know it can be hard to rate someone up for making a valid point that goes against your argument, but it will show everyone how mature you are and that you can argue with grace. So, rate-ups for Lefein and Trinitee.
#475 Aug 10 2004 at 8:45 PM Rating: Decent
speaking of which, where are the dark elves? we all know high elves hate on night elves!
#476 Aug 10 2004 at 8:46 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
And the fact of the matter is, I'm gay. I've always been gay. I tried to kill myself three times during my teenage years because I was raised to be a good little Christain, Southern Baptist as a matter of fact, and I was taught to hate gay people. I didn't WANT to be gay, I did everything in my power NOT to be gay. I have been there, I have experienced it, and *I* am telling you that being gay is not a choice. I have IMPIRICAL evidence. You're straight, I'm gay, and you're trying to tell ME about being gay? Trust me, if any of us is an authority on the subject it would be me.


Your right, I'm not gay. You know what though, I chose to be straight. I chose my girlfriend, whom I love very much. I wasn't born with the thought of her in my mind. I chose to love her. You have experience with being homosexual and say its born. Ok, so it might be in your case. Overall though, who knows.

Quote:

Trinitee, I respect you a lot because ALL you've done is raise points. You haven't insulted me or called me a "****" or a "***", you simply argue your case. MUCH better than the sporadic "gays r sick!!!1" posts that pop up in this topic from time to time.


Ignore those post, they are immature 15 year olds who can't comprehend that people are different and that they need to be respected. I respect people who can argue logically without the need for insults.

Quote:
I do wish you guys would produce some evidence of your own though, instead of just trying to debunk mine. Debate is fun for me, and I'd like to see what some of the anti-gay evidence is.


I gave you a link, in case you missed it here it is again...
http://www.newdirection.ca/a_biol.htm

EDIT : I'm not trying to say homosexuals are born homosexual or NOT born homosexual. I'm just trying to say, that any research can be counter proven. We simply don't know and we may NEVER know.


Edited, Tue Aug 10 21:47:42 2004 by Trinitee
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