On the subject of in-game same-sex marriage....Follow

This is the funny thing! There's not a person gay or straight that truly believes I should be allowed to marry a car,house, or cat. So here comes the moral of the story:

It's okay to redefine marriage so long as it fits someones definition or purposes of it. The question isnt whether marriage should be done in love or not. Becuase it's entirely possible for someone to love ANYTHING. To be truly equal, if we are going to base marriage off of love then you should be able to marry whatever it is you love. So, instead, the battle is between the gays who want to redefine marriage so that they can marry and the people who wish for marriage to retain its traditional definition. It's not a subject of equality or human rights. It's a question of who deserves to define marriage. Who do we vest the power of defining something that has long stood as a set definite thing? Do you allow "this movement" or "that movement" to redefine tradition. To allow marriage for one group and deny it for another is... discrimination. Surprise surprise! the word discrimination isn't such an evil thing after all. If Betty wanted to marry Mittens the cat we would <gasp> discriminate!

So, do I give you the power to define things for me, or do I keep that right for myself? It's not a vlaue judgement... It's a battle for who you let take control of your civilization. Let's cut the human rights crap and really get down to it. It's a power struggle. You have your viw of the world. I have mine. Let's take moral high ground out of the picture. Let's take name calling out of the picture. The issue is what it is.

Would you please stop with the "redefining marriage" garbage? The ONLY people whose definition of marriage it would be redefining are homosexual couples. And the definition would change from "***** you, your relationship is meaningless to the eyes of society and you have no legal rights whatsoever" to "welcome to being one step closer to being treated with dignity and respect, have a nice honeymoon". YOUR definition doesn't change, YOU still have the same rights and same limitations as you ever did. YOU aren't being harmed or wronged by it, and YOU are still just as well-off as you are. But YOU don't have any right whatsoever to tell me that my relationship with my amazing Max isn't just as valid as anything you could come up with. YOU are the one drawing a line in the sand and telling me to stay on my side of it. YOU'RE the one with a superiority complex, thinking somehow you're more important than I am and deserve better. WE'RE the ones fighting on a daily basis to simply have the SAME rights you have...nothing more, nothing less.

As I have stated earlier I think marriage is an economic institution more than anything. It is one that is defined by religion under and union, but under the government it is economic. The power structures that be have a monopoly on this "tradition" and any thing that deviates from that isn't "normal." I could care less about tradition. Sure its still a struggle for rights.

I don't see how you can have a power stuggle without taking about rights? The ones in power, "tradition" vs. the ones who want to be included or equal to that "tradition." Like I said once again, it is strange that homosexuals want to be included in a religious tradition, that's why the *government* should step away and let people have unions with whomever they want.

I personally don't care if someone wants to marry their cat just don't give them tax breaks for it. Or just even better eliminate tax breaks altogether for married couples.

What, polygamy? Polygamy isn't marriage, it's marriage-squared. You have the right to fall in love, get married and spend your life together. I do not. I can fall in love, but I can't marry that person and god forbid something should happen to one of us. HOW IS THAT FAIR? And stop comparing it to marrying a cat. Max is not a cat. Your future wife (should anyone ever marry you) is not a cat. You have the right to meet someone, fall in love, and get married. I DO NOT. Therefore, you have rights I don't have, which is discriminatory. You don't have the right to marry a cat, neither do I. THAT is an example of equality. Nobody has the right to marry a cat, so nobody is being discriminated against. You DO have the right to marry the ONE ADULT PERSON YOU LOVE AND WHO LOVES YOU. I do not. That is inequality. I cannot possibly make it any more simple to understand, so hopefully you'll understand that much.

I will not rate anything on this thread because it is political. However, Lionheart nailed it. No matter what you do you are discriminating. You can't just stop discriminating. We discriminate in everything we do every day. You wouldnt be homosexual if you didnt discriminate in some way shape or form against members of the opposite sex. Discrimination isnt a bad or evil thing. It's something that is as natural as walking on two legs.

Are there people out there that dont have two legs? Yeah. Do we need to systematically pay for cybernetic implants for everyone that cant walk so that they can walk? I'm not paying for it! You can pick up whatever cause you want in life and find something thats not fair in the world. However, neither I or anybody I know can live over a thousand years to solve each and every problem there is with everything. Therefore, there are certain realities that simply must be accepted.

Do people abuse the marriage system that is alreay in place? Sure do! Then again, I dont go around punching holes in every condom I see because they might break either... Think about it.

Edited, Tue Aug 10 19:57:31 2004 by Lefein

What a dismal world you must live in. "There are too many problems in the world, so why bother trying to fix any of them!" is your argument. I feel sorry for you, if your world is so dark and unhappy that you can't even recognise inequality when you see it, or when you can recognise inequality but don't care about it.

Yay! He finally figured it out!

By the way, I never said you couoldn't love your partner, nor am I trying to change that. If you love Max then fine, great, more power to you, but it opens up too many issues. I fail to see how someone fighting to make Polygimy legal makes Heterosexuality wrong, but hey, that's just me and a large chunk of the population.

So then, by your very own logic, your right to marry the woman of your dreams should be taken away. I guess that'd be fine too, at least we'd be on equal footing and you could see how YOU like being treated like your relationship is insignificant or second-class.

The key thing you're not taking note of (whether because you haven't considered it or because you don't WANT to consider it since it invalidates your argument) is that there is very staggering evidence that people are born gay. There is NO evidence that people are born polygamists. Becuase I was born gay, I'm having an inextricable fact of my life being held against me. "Sorry, you're blonde, you're not allowed to get married." You CANNOT compare that to polygamy, which has nothing at all (as far as modern medical science knows) with genetics or pre-natal conditions. People do not WANT to be gay, they just are. People WANT to be polygamists (at least as far as anyone knows now). So your argument fails.

Pandora's Box.

We all discriminate.

Even you "mister discriminated minority" seek it fit to say that another minority should not get married. So, you already agree that the majority should be able to define marriage but that your specific group is now large enough (for whatever reason) to see it fit to define it now? If we're going to throw morality out the window to accomodate you, who else are we accomodating?

People call us "The Great Satan" why give them a reason?

That's pretty funny, as most gays I've talked to say they chose to be Gay, not born Gay. And until we know that people are born Gay, it's your choice to become Gay, and therefore, you know full well what you're doing. And you don't know that people aren't born palygimists, so don't even talk about that. Only talk about what's known, otherwise, you get into "What if" and then it just turns ******.

And how would, by my logic, my woman of my dreams get taken away? Explain that, as we are not taking Max away from you, the government just won't let you marry.

OK, please, show me studies where people are proven to be born gay (not doubting, I've just never seen any.)

Please see my last post for the answer to all your questions Sab...

All hail the gay community, the new moral authority in America!

/kneel

Edited, Tue Aug 10 20:16:46 2004 by Lefein