On the subject of in-game same-sex marriage....Follow

I believe it says it, many times. It says we are doomed to sin, it is in human nature. Yet it also says, that if we repent then we will be saved.

Come on, I haven't gone to church in like 3 years and I still know that.

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*Absolutely nothing you said was true. You may respond with "show me a source telling me I'm wrong." No. I'm not going to do that. Why? Because I've read all that stuff. I'm working on completing a PhD in evolutionary and developmental biology. It is clear to me that the most you've ever done is read a creationism pamphlet or listented closely in Sunday school to your teacher who didn't finish HS and got Sundays off from Wal-Mart. YOU go look it up. All the information is easily attainable. Try Pubmed. Thats a good start. Also look into Stephen J. Gould's The Pandas Thumb and Full House. And if you are going to talk about evolution and don't want someone making you look like an idiot, read Richard Dawkins' The Selfish Gene. Dawkins' book is really a modern update on Darwinism and Gould's theories of punctuated equilibnrium were groundbreaking.

You know nothing of the subject- don't speak like you are educated on a topic when you have a tabloid-esque knowlege of the subject matter.*


Gould in your favorite book The Pandas Thumb, and I quote ''can we invent a reasonable sequence of intermediate forms - that is, viable, functioning organisms - between ancestors and descendants in major sturtural tranistions? I submit, although it may only reflect my lack of imagination, that the answer is no...''


Tell me something why is it that you evolutionists cant ever agree on how evolution occurs? Gould is constantly agrued against by some of the leading scientist of his day as well is Dawkins. Why? Because some like to hold to this all sustaining continuity in nature, while others have seen time and again that the opposite is true, that there is no continuity in nature. Are you not aware of this?? Which evolutionary view do you hold too? Darwianian transitional? A saltational model? You act like there is this one all sustaining view, yet they argue all the time!!

Im sorry you had a great rebuttle coming. I wish i could have heard something better than Im just righteously ignorant, or that i should go read more books.

I actually just finished reading one on microbiology among other things, by someone who is not considered a christian or a creationist at least as far as i know and certainly made no religious statements in his book. Hello are you so naive to think that there are no antievolutionists out there who dont hold to creationism.

The fact remains, evolution is a big fat story, there is no empirical evidence of transitional forms, or sequences in nature living or past. I can make up a story all day how a squirrel started jumping off a tree and then learned to develop bat like wings, too bad my imagination isnt reality.

Microbiology has gone the opposite direction of what evolutionist had hoped it would do. They hoped it would bring continuity and sequence in the chain of life. However all it has done is shown that nature is quite discontinuous. That micro evolution cannot be extrapolated to macro. And that life is circumferential not sequential. I wont even start on the cell itself because if your a big Phd in biology you should know the utter impossibility of it arriving from inorganic to oranic.

Darwinian evolution requires sequential, intermediate forms. Too bad nature has never given us one. Ill be happy to give more quotes than just Gould on other of your big scientists admitting how science and nature have failed to show emperical evidence of evolution.

The problem in science today is that evolution has become just like the Earth centered views of the dark ages, or the old combustion theories, which people for ages tried to fit science into these molds only to find and finally come to realize that the facts dont meet the theories. People are so resistant to let go of macro evolution because they dont have a theory to replace it.

I should rate you down, for being as arrogant to assume that I have only read some creationist pamplet. I am working on my Masters in chemical engineering. I have read alot as well.
The point is I dont know everything, but what I do know is that there is not one shred of emperical evidence for evolution. If there was one you would still need thousands to fill darwinian theory, so where are they?

The solution is simple: What you offer to one you offer to all. No one forced SE to offer marriage but since they did they should offer it to all. Sad when fantasy RPG reinforces real life bias. One would hope that in fantasy role-playing one could escape real life.

SE should either offer marriage so that characters choose whom they marry or remove the marriage option altogether. It's a matter of RPG freedom - players should choose not SE.

If you noticed i did say that homosexuality is just as wrong as adultry. And yes there are more passages about adultry in the bible or sex outside of marriage. I think God makes it quite clear. Plus dont go on just what I or others say. If you wanna actually know what hte bible says, you have to pick it up and read it for yourself. Just like any other book.

I have read it, but I don't recall any passage where God said homosexuality is wrong. (I realize it wouldn't be said JUST like that, but you get my point.)

Look we are all born of sin. God knows that, and understands but that does not make it ok to Sin... When you sin you must repent, and when you dont repent continuisly and you just keep sinning then you are doomed.

Well if you dont recall the part talking about 'men who lie down with men' or something than you need to read it again. And you must be really dumb to argue that is not talking about homosexuals.

Not sure if this has been brought up in this thread, but I had heard rumors previously that in the Japanese version marriages had to be same-race, not same-gender. This is not true, the Japanese have the same restrictions on marriage as we do.

From S-E website:


From Babelfish:

(Gal mosquito = Galka O_o, prayer = player)

Square was reflecting the law and culture of Japan when creating the marriage system. Also what they see of America is news reports about how our president is trying to outlaw the creation of laws in contradiction with the Christian marriage, so they figure most Americans would not like it either. No problems for them, and the monthly fees keep rolling in.

I personally think it is bigoted and hateful what is happening in our country, and am ashamed to be from the deep South. People need to accept religious beliefs other than their own if we are to live in a secular nation. The same thing happened in the past against polygamists (though to be fair, that would have been a bureaucratic nightmare to keep track of) in this country, it'd suck to see it go against homosexuals as well. I see the first step down the path of legislating against gay marriage as the first step down the path of turning America into a fundamentalist religious form of government. You know, much like Iran, or the Vatican.

Ultimately, as far as the game goes, the money and power always have been and always will be with Square-Enix. They're a private corporation, and free to discriminate against whomever they please, as long as it doesn't hurt profits. If you want to play an MMO with gay marriage, make your own. I'll help if you wanna hire me :)

Look we are all born of sin. God knows that, and understands but that does not make it ok to Sin... When you sin you must repent, and when you dont repent continuisly and you just keep sinning then you are doomed.

Being born with sin != being damned to hell because of that sin, as long as one repents.

I think that's what we're both getting at?

Once again you know better than why God wants to do something?

Plus how is someone saving you depressing? If someone saved your life would you be depressed for weeks? I doubt it.

Its depressing to not have a hope in this world. If God is absent, then depressing it is to live in a world with no hope of something more than just living and dying.

I never said I knew better than God, please don't put words in my mouth. The reason I said think is because that's my opinion, and I don't believe that anyone on this planet
truly knows what God intends, and that's why we have so many branchs from the early Christian religion.

I don't view saving as saying we're all damned to hell, and that Jesus as our only salvation. Not that I'm not saying he ISN'T, but there ARE better ways of telling people this.

Well if you dont recall the part talking about 'men who lie down with men' or something than you need to read it again. And you must be really dumb to argue that is not talking about homosexuals.

I don't see how me not recalling every last word of the bible merits me having to read it again. The Bible needs to be digested as a whole, as it is very hard for us to judge what the exact intentions are.

Do NOT accuse me of being dumb for arguing something that I never even said. That was just plain rude.

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Exactly. We're doomed to sin, but not that we're doomed to hell because of that.

IMO, there's a big difference between the two.

I have read it, but I don't recall any passage where God said homosexuality is wrong. (I realize it wouldn't be said JUST like that, but you get my point.)


Actually Revelation 21:8 for starters where it lists several different people among liars being thrown into the lake of fire.
If you want me to bring up more Ill be glad too like 1st corinthians ch 3

As far as homosexual references. There is the old testament law, plus Romans ch 1, plus in 1st or 2nd corinthians as well.

bible makes it quite clear, that if you sin you deserve hell, and that homosexuality is a sin.

Honestly...I was going to do my best to stay out of this, I'm sick of these discussions.

I'm a gay preachers kid, so I know my fair share about the bible and it's view on homosexuality. I'm pretty sure the verse you are refering to is in Leviticus, the priests code. If you are so inclined as to take what the bible says as absolute law there are many many other "sins" listed in this book that people choose to ignore. For example



All of these come From Leviticus 19, The anti-gay verse is leviticus 18.

I'm not going to get into the issue in-game because honestly, I don't care *that* much anymore. It'd be nice if SE cared, but I don't expect them to. I'm tired of seeing idiots pull out a "The Bible says it's wrong" and not having a clue what they're talking about.

Actually Revelation 21:8 for starters where it lists several different people among liars being thrown into the lake of fire.
If you want me to bring up more Ill be glad too like 1st corinthians ch 3

As far as homosexual references. There is the old testament law, plus Romans ch 1, plus in 1st or 2nd corinthians as well.

bible makes it quite clear, that if you sin you deserve hell, and that homosexuality is a sin.

This is the best example I can make of this.

There has to be some limit as to what every word in the bible can be taken as true. If all liars are going to be thrown into hell, there will be no one left on this planet.

Also, we need to remember, again, that God's opinion changes, as apparent from Judaism -> Christianity.

And thank you for the sections, I'll have to look them up.

STFU this idea is stupid. This GAME does not have to reflect individual beliefs of ALL RETARDS If any part of this game is based on anything IRL it should be based on simple beliefs.

What's next? are you f'ing wierdos gonna start complaining about the wedding ceremony and that it doesn't reflect your religious traditions.

BAH THIS GAMES SUCKS ANYWAYS

If you're not going to contribute to the discussion we're having, please do NOT post here.

Actually this is not completely true. Christian religion, in its beginning accepted homosexuality and homosexuality is not mentionned into the list of sins as adultry is. Homosexuality became bad for Christians when the pope used the "go populate the Earth I gave you" (I'm sorry I know it is not the exact quote and I do not have the verset number either, but I'm sure you know which one I'm talking of) to tell people to go thourghout Europe and reproduce more. Then, as homosexuality lead to no reproduction, it started to be bad.


Regards

But we need to be sure to remember that God's judgement on what is right and wrong does change, as apparent by the differnce between Judaism and Christianity.


Once again CBD, you are only basing this off of what you think or how you think God should be. That is what i mean by saying you think you know what God wants and what he wants to do. You cant define the biblical view of God on what you think.

God's law does not change, it is only clarified when Christ came. Christ himself said he did not come to abolish God's law but to fulfill it. He extended adultry to even lust, murder to hatred. I say extended, but this is no different than old testament law.

God doesnt change in his Holiness or the fact that he is just. Who God is remains the same, therefore that which is sin hasnt changed either.

Christianity does not divide along its fundamental truths, if it does it is no longer christianity. Salvation by grace through faith is christianity. Branches generally arise among true christian denominations on trivial matters, such as how to perform baptism.
America groups christianity as all churches that considers themselves christian, However, that is not a true definition and nor is it in biblical terms.

You dont have to read it all again, but there are truths heavily evident in the bible the same fundamental truths according to it that you must hold too in order to actually be a christian. Man is sinful. God is not. We are subject to condemnation because of our sin, but God has provided his Son as a sacrfice for something that only we could pay by spending eternity in hell.

Is there a better way of telling people this? No there isnt not without comprimising the Bible or frankly lying.

For an anology. If you were on a jet plane sitting next to a christian. Well your into this movie great movie on the plane. Loud speaker comes on with the Cpt saying we are gonna crash, underneath your seat is a parachute, use it to save your life. Now you being so into the mmovie didnt hear this. But the guy next to you leans over and just say hey man, use the parachute underneath your seat.

Well you ignore him, cause you have no clue why on earth you would need a parachute. You didnt hear the capt, your enjoying yoru movie, the plane isnt even pointed down.

However, if he tells you that hey man, the planes is gonna crash, then tells you that there is parachute for your safety, then you udnerstand the need for the parachute.

See what im saying. You have no need for a cure, if you are never told you have a disease. You are much more likely to accept the cure, if on the outset you are told you have a disease and you believe the doc who tells you.