I hear many tales of RDMs backing out for a minute and it getting difficult for the pt. Of course it gets difficult they're short 1 person. Now don't get me wrong i love RDM and i've even done it once or twice to teach a lesson, but don't forget that if any 1 member backed out for a while it can get a little hairy.
Basically what i'm saying is, as long as each member can prove their usefulness don't dictate what they do. Just concentrate on your own abilities and contributions to the party, and we'll all have a better time pting.
I agree with the idea that the rdm should take the role of whatever the party needs at the moment.
I started off in one party as the main healer with a nin tank and a thf, mnk, rng and blm. As main healer i was still meleeing, nothing wrong with getting skillups if it doesnt interfere with the role you need to fill for the situation.
After a while the nin left and we picked up a whm to replace because no tanks were seeking, the mnk ended up main tanking. The mnk took a pounding, but between me and the whm we could keep up. At that point i was being also used to SATA onto with the thf. between stoneskin, blink, and phalanx(no utsu, i was rdm/whm) i was taking no damage before the mnk took hate back(Heh heh, rdm can tank too!).
The next party i was in i was the enfeebler, i still meleed and ended up starting a fusion SC so the whm could have fun.
My opinion is, melee if you want and can still keep up with what the party needs you to do(note: what the party needs! not what you want!!!), but if you start falling behind, put up the sword.
currently I have a BLM50 & a RDM57. my RDM57/BLM28 I have melee'd & skilled up with Swords, Daggers, & a Club, the ENTIRE time, some levels I gained solo in Sauramogue Champeign/ Rolanberry Fields (slow, but possible, good for skilling up & NPC fellow leveling) I've noticed that everyone has an Opinion on almost every job, some ppl actually try to dictate their opinion as Law. ***** Them. If you are a quick keyboard user & a Good Macro builder, & can prioritize spells well, you can do exactly what a RDM was designed to do; 'Battle Mage'. RDM's have tons of spells designed for melee enhancement, RDM's can equip Armor. These opinionated ppl, would have you keep a Third of your RDM specific spells collecting dust on the shelf. I say no way, I have a RDM only spell, I'm using it. also, how many times have I seen a Mobs AoE demolish the whole party while my RDM 'receives 0 damage'. also in case of Link, I can take the new mob on myself, keeping it slept & keeping Phalanx/Stoneskin/Icespikes up, until PT is ready to take the added mob.
Mages are my fave, so I leave the tanks to their job, pullers & WHM's to their's. So I ask everyone, as long as Convert/Refresh/Dispel/Gravity is used, leave the RDM's alone, they have a hectic job. If a RDM is melee'ing at a high level, chances are they didn't climb the XP ladder by accident, they got skills. my 2 cents.
also, I forgot....this AF Sword sucks, Crimson Sword in the AH has higher stats, I used it until the Wise Wizard's Anelace
RDM update, I now have a RDM70 with several capped skills including Sword & Evasion, dagger almost capped. I have since modified my Melee in XP Parties, here are my personal rules;
I melee in parties with 3 or less Refreshes needed (including myself) & monster does not cause Silence AoE's (Anticas & Imps no thanks) also the Puks can be an annoyance. In XP Parties with 4+ refreshes needed, I don't melee, it's too much MP, in my opinion (I'm Hume by the way, so I have moderate stats across the board). So any of you battle ready RDM's out there, this 'rule' may help you decide when or when not to melee.
my 3 cents.
P.S. RDM70/BLU35 is pretty friggin awesome to solo with, I farm my own RDM testimonies with this combo it rocks. the addition of Vorpal Blade is sweet. my 4 cents now lol
i totally agree w/ this post and the one above it...and any other post encouraging RDM's "battlemage" abilities.
Quote:
I've noticed that everyone has an Opinion on almost every job, some ppl actually try to dictate their opinion as Law. ***** Them.
You're absolutely right. FFXI is a game with which u can play however you want. There is no reason why a rdm can't melee as long as meleeing doesn't inhibit the rdm's actions. Yep us rdms have certain abilities (using swords, shields, armor, etc.) and spells (en-spells, phalanx, stoneskin, etc.) for a reason...to use them. Anyway yea I agree w/ everything you guys said.
I agree, everyone thinks rdm is a full mage, there not, there fightr mages, im a rdm/smn lvl 33 (atm) and all i here is "stay in the back" its bull ****, if i got a sword im goin to use it
I'm a great red mage, and I melee'd all the way until lvl 68 or so.
Yes, folks, it can be done! Just have good gear to stick your spells and macro EVERYTHING, and understand you might only get in a few swings in each fight...
But if you can stay rested, cast all your spells AND inflict a couple hundred points of extra damage, why not?
I am 62 rdm and I have meleed the whole way. depending on what the group needs I have also tanked lol. I can't count the number of times ive had to take a IT link by myself while keeping refresh dispel stoneskin aquaviel blink phalanx backup heals and mbs running. Through all of that I never needed healing and my pt never suffered. And ive had ITs I've soloed to half health and then the pt would kill it and we would move on to another chain. It's alot of work but macros are what its all about. That and knowing what spells do(casting times and such). heres the proof. Rdm/nins are known as one of the only jobs to solo avatar prime and god fights so why hold them back they are a pt in themselves.
indeed rdm CAN do dmg but as compared to utilizing MP u r much better off using ur mp.
also, shining blade has a int or mnd modifier on it if i am not wrong so u doing more than the pld is nothign surprising. a blm will do more dmg than a thf with cyclone cuz it has INT mod.
and on ur point of excalibur. the sword has additional effect (like that of fire sword, where u will see additional effect: 3 fire dmg) of doing 1/4 of ur current hp worth of dmg. granted it has very high base dmg but the additional affect is proabably the main source of BIG number from excalibur. so, even rdm can use excalibur they dun produce uber dmg due to their str.
I am a RDM/WHM at lvl 38. As a rdm I have always used a sword. From the bronze sword to the Fire Sword to the current Mythril Degen (Buzzard Tuck is in MH) Now I was being told by a lvl 70 BST that i should quit using my sword and pick up a rod and do Magic Bursts. He said that i should look out for my party. I was in Garlaige Citidel at that time. I ask my party what they thought of it. They said I was fine with a sword. I wasn't doing much dmg at all (i still had my fire sword.. and no enblizzard) Then i got my WS... Shining Blade. I was able to get in more damage than the Paladin so I was happy.
So let me ask you this. The relic Sword Excaliber is only used by two jobs. You know what those jobs are. Not WAR/PLD. RDM/PLD. Yes the best single handed sword in the game the red mage can proudly hold in his or her hand. think of that and using ninja sub and dual weilding with Enhancing sword or a Joyeuse. What do you see from that?
Well no more than 10 minutes ago i got my Fencing Degen. And what a beautiful sight she is. the quest was suprisingly easy. got some friends from the LS to help. headed out to Davoi, went to the ???. took a couple minutes for mob to spawn. 7 lvl 50+ friends and myself(41RDM/20BLM) murdered the orcs. got the drop, escaped out of there, and the storage whole was very close to the Jugnar zone. Headed back to sandy and got the sword. my first piece of AF gear ever. and it's badass.
gl to all you RDM's on the hunt. and thanks to everyone who help me get my sword.
Hi i just leveled to 42 RDm/BLM last night. I know there are those parties that don't like for the RDM to fight but you know what? I am not one of those people that will sit back and listen to them either. I love my RDM and there is nobody that is going to tell me how to do my job. Now i am a noob when it comes to using refresh but i proved how much they needed me when i had to go afk and the tank died just as i arrived and half the group was dying. I stepped in in time to save the group, grab the hate (for a very little bit, taru can't take that punishment much as rdm lol) and we finished it off with no problem and i healed while meleeing. We were chaining back to back and they loved me for it. The tank was pissed at me because he died but i did say i was going afk real quick. The leader however loved me to death and gave me praise which made me feel good. SO to all my RDM brethren out there, without us a party isn't a party!!! Give us freedom or give us...FREEDOM!!! RDM POWER!!! There's my one cent. Fight on my brothers and sisters!!
[b][/b][i][/i]I have just lvld to RDM 41 n i am still to meet sum1 to say im useless i have been complimented many a time on my skill as RDM even beaten WAR with SWD damage so evri1 who said wither RDM is useless B4 lvl 41 / that RDM is superior are wrong RDM can be made stronger in certain aspects but only surpass 1 of these e.g if you put up your melee you will not melee or heal as much as WHM / BLM judged on equip subjob & race. N good on to that WHM! Put that PLD in his place!
Today i hit 40 and asked around my LS some help...About 5-10minutes later a 53WHM says he'll help.. we get there and we find out a 53WHm can't kill it so we ask this passing NIN... about 45minutes later we find the "???" after that We walked up that ramp took a left walked for not more then 30secounds and found my storage hole.. after getting the meat i get agroed and died and de-lvled. Just thought i'd tell my story...GL everyone
To who ever diced to start a freakin Colt that said rdm cant do nothin but enfebble an refresh should go die an shrivle up in a conner!!! Red Mage is the best mage an yes im a rdm/nin an do hit critical over 100 an do dmg when i do SC I even hhave a whm friend who fights with there prty. E.X. PLD: A fighting RDM huh an nin as sj kick this fruit. WHM: Wtf is wrong with u pld he can fight if he wants. PLD: Do u even hv Utiseume ? RDM: No PLD kick this fruit i hn a better rdm on the way. RDM: stfu buddy go shrivle up!!! WHM: Hey enough talk...<---leader DRDM: ok u want a refresh now? WHM: nahh im good ill tell u when PLD: Refresh me *****!!! WHM: HMMM pull hornfly stop rng let PLD go lets see if he can do this.. PLD: kk WHm then waits till he vokes it then kick the PLD pld runs in front to exorays uses invincibe wears off pld dies an dlvl whm tells who ever raises him im gonna report btw hes Bluffing PLD hps we all r then very happy whm says plz forgive me for inviting him can i hv refresh? RDM: kk next fight I lvl to 44.. next day I see pld still at 42 hehe
Yes i hv this sword it is very strong. If u r a rdm who feels this way rate me up. http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?102154
Honestly, on this subject, there is no right or wrong answer. A red mage must know how to effectively heal, nuke, melee, refresh, and how to float between these when the situation calls for it. I sub either my white mage or my ninja on my red mage when I'm partying, and yes, I am up to date on all ninjutsus and spells, and do carry around ninja tools for them. The point is, let them have whatever sub they want, you didn't design the game, and you don't know every in and out of every combination, nobody does. I still have enough MP as RDM/NIN to keep refresh going strong, to backup heal, and to MB and enfeeble. No, red mage is not a dedicated meleer in any case, but they can still dish out respectable and constant hits at a pretty good rate. Truth be told, a white mage subjob doesn't make you a main healer any more than a black mage sub makes you and outstanding nuker. We red mages just weren't meant to be either. We're a jack-of-all-trades, yet a master of none. People invite us because we do all I mentioned above, not because of any one reason, and that's the way it should be. Thank you everyone that reads this and agrees.
Sadly, most people don't consider that RDM can do so much more than just being a "Refresh *****" post-41. That's why they get so many invites then. :/
I, personally, would invite a RDM because they can do pretty much everything. They can melee, they can backup heal, they can support nuke (or assist magic bursts), etc., etc... I wouldn't invite them just 'cos they can refresh (and also enfeeble like no other).
For those that do invite RDMs post-41 *mainly* because they can refresh: If that's the case, then why were RDMs even able to hit 41 in the first place? Because they are so much more capable than just casting a spell on the mages every few minutes that just helps keep MP up.
Yes, having refresh literally skyrockets the amount of invites RDM get, but RDM is an invaluable part of a party, even before then. I am proud to party with RDMs, simple as that.
Actually, to sum it all up, RDM's are the elbow grease and duct tape of an effective pt. So much of what we do is to enable others to do their jobs better... enfeebs to make mobs hurt less so healers wasts less mp, or make melees hit more often or harder to speed up the fight. Refresh to resuce resting time andbackup heal when the whm can't cast a critical cure because of a recast timer... we're there to fill in the gaps and help a pt run like a well-oiled machine. If an RDM feels fighting is better or like me who piles pn the enfeebs, it's all good in the end. ^_^
i partied with a rdm/nin last night who really knew what he was doing and it was some of the fastest, easiest exp i've ever gotten in a 3-hour period and not a single death, we were getting up into the chain 5's.
after watching him, i know that there are other reasons besided utsusemi that should be more important and should be more recognized in a party scenario.
in my experience, a nin/war or war/nin or anything else with /nin will very rarely use their debuffs while in a party because (as one prima-donna nin/war i partied with said), "debuffing is a RDMs job, and i'm too busy trying to keep my shadows up." owch, and those are some nice debuffs too. well, if there has to be something a redmage specializes on, it has to be enfeebling/debuffing. subbing ninja opens a whole new realm with a nice perk: ninja debuffs consume no MP.
another thing that is usually overlooked or used wrongly is the duel-weild ability. 2 platoon daggers + approprate en- spell + haste + advancing march + a good tank = a bad time for the mob this setup helps bring down the mob faster, which can help the other mages keep their MP up and makes them happy, which means less downtime and makes the melees happy, which means a better chance for chaining, which means more exp and makes EVERYONE happy.
of course, there's always the utsusemi reasons: 1) if the tank is in trouble (it happens), a (melee-ready) redmage can take a SATA. throwing up utsusemi just after stoneskin wears can keep you going until the tank is ready 2) for accidently gaining hate from over nuking or healing 3) for bit of insurance after a Convert 4) for pulling
as long as a person using rdm/nin knows how to juggle their party responciblities, as far as i'm concerned theres no reason to not invite them post 30, although waiting to 40 would be ideal for Convert. actually, after 40 a redmange can sub almost anything they want to. beastmaster i wouldnt like to see since jugpets would be out of the question, dragoon just isnt very practical (although useful in certian situations when you cant have one), and paladin just isnt too good of an idea in my opinion.
::cough:: anyways.... went from 39 to 43 last night before the party broke, got to watch the other redmage kick much *** with his ninja sub, and by tonight i'll hopefully be the proud owner of a new fencing degan
I have a rdm/nin and yes they do good dmg, BUT, it's pointless without having your ninjistu. To be honest, if i saw you with that setup in a pt, i would kick you or just leave myself.
a rdm/nin is good to solo. No one in thier right mind would invite a rdm thinking hey, he will be a good DD. Truthfully at your lvl you should kno better than that. i think you hitting an IT mob for around the same dmg as a pld would is not as important as you doing a good job refreshing and enfeebling and MB (which with the right gear, will outdamge all your sword swinging combined.
My opinon. Go Drk. You get magic and you get to swing a sword. and ppl will expect you to do so.
I have a RDM in the low 60's. I haven't melee'd in an exp party since mid 30's and i believe in doing the right thing. My exp parties consist of alternating refresh / disspell /refresh / feeble / refresh / nuke ect... Its a matter of smoothing mps for other mage jobs and doing other usefull things in between. When i go to face Matt at 70 I will have all my magic near cap. Can a melee rdm say the same. I will take him down at a distance. Do these melee rdm's think they can fight him toe to toe. Hello assuran fists!!!
Can anyone put a link up to a site that shows where the holes spawn. I have looked for about a week (mainly i keep gettin mauled by orcs cuz dam invis pops, or lizzys that i didnt kno could see me with invis up.) Anyway, plz help me out
I looked for a map, and nothing doing. (Sadly. It would've made my life easier.) Generally it seems to spawn on one of the (many) flower-like four-point designs on the ground of Davoi.
And for what it's worth, I got my silly *** KO'd twice in less than 5 minutes doing this sword run. >.> GL, it's a nice sword and it's worth it.
For the people that think RDM should never touch a sword once they hit Refresh, one should notice this -is- their Artifact item. I like to hit things, but yeah... that's only if the party's good and will let me. En-spells work wonders on helping add damage but sometimes the WHM doesn't seem to know what they're doing, even in these times of 1337ness. From what I've been told by fellow RDM is that equip macros are very important.
I like to be in the action, hacking and slashing with the big boys while throwing enfeebles around (Dispel is the shizzle on Crawlers and even Gobs that decide to use spike spells, lovely.) but if the party is good and insists on me back up healing... I'm much obliged to sit back and pick my nose, throw a cure here and there with the occassional Refresh and Dispel.
Don't mind me, I'm back with the Mages, pass the popcorn.
Hi. I am a RDM48/BLM24 atm, playing on the Asura Server. A couple of nights ago, when my SwordSkill reached 125, I learned the WeaponSkill, Seraph Blade. Very nice I thought, but for some reason I cannot use it. It doesn't show up in my WeaponSkills-List. I had the same issue with Red Lotus Blade, Swordskill lvl 50. Are there any RDM's, with swordskills, that have the same issue? Or does anybody know if a RDM/BLM simply cannot use these WS's?
If you want to know what jobs can use certain weapon skills, go here and scroll to the bottom. The ones marked EX or SP need a specific main or sub job for it to show up. It says you "have" the skill, but to use it you have to have the right job.
Take a look on any weapon skills sites and you'll see certain notes by some of them.
Some Weapon Skills are usable by any job that can use that type of weapon, while others require certain jobs/subjobs also. If you want to try out your Red Lotus Blade and Seraph Blade, I believe having a WAR sub makes them available. (other jobs work too but I remember Red Lotus shows for me if I sub war for whatever reason)
i didn't even bother reading the full of this post. you address "you people" as everyone. my god you are wrong. the people who try to tell you how to live your life on ffxi are stuck up jackass's, just because theres alot of these people doesn't mean you can slag off the rest of the human race. do redMAGE how you feel like it dont listen to those people but please be defined if your complaining on who your complaining against.
edit: i did find patience to read it all and your as bad as those people telling you what to do. you say how red mage is better then every other job.
Rapier is a TYPE of sword. Have any of you actually held a rapier? I owna combat quality rapier that I used a couple of years at the local Renaissance fair. A F***'d it up, but its still a rapier, and rapiers are swords.
[b][/b][i][/i]Although I'm sure the point is moot currently I still am going to throw my hat into the ring. A redMAGES job is to melee/enfeeble/nuke/heal/enhance we do all of the above and most time better than our cockey whiteMAGE and blackMAGE counterparts. We are every class all rolled up in one decent at everything master of nothing. Unless your main job is a REDMAGE then you should stfu and let us do our damn job. We may be on the low end of damage with our swords and nukes but damage is damage. You people think that a redmage should be your personal manna battery which is lame I can not count how many times I as a redMAGE have had to pick up the slack for my pt's whiteMAGE in healing (to which after saving the tanks *** thus basicaly saving the whole pt the whm gets the /bow or /kneel) or my pt's blackMAGE in MB or such simple things as PT-"OMFG we have LINK sleep the other mob" BLM-"ZzzzzZZZ Huh?" RDM-"Sleeping peicefully, carry on pt". My point is LAY OFF unless you are a RedMage, any RedMage who can not do all these things while in melee should forget the pimp hat and go become a blm or a whm and slack it up all he wants. As far as refresh goes yeah I don't mind refreshing the mages in the pt but if you are in my pt and you are a slacker don't expect me to waste my MP on you when I can waste it on myself or the paladin both of whom know thier job and know how to do it right.
while i agree with a majority of your statement, i disagree on a few things: first, we are not better than WHM's in the field of curing, nor are we better than BLM's in the field of nukeing, we ARE masters of enfeebling, however. also, like i said, i did agree with most of it.. i also cant count the times ive saved the pt with a last minute Cure III on the PLD because the whm couldnt keep up, or a sleep on a link when the blm was jerkin off somewhere. and when the pt seems to be dissin the rdm, i just hang back, save my MP and slowly watch them die, cause, all of a sudden they aint hittin the mob as hard or as well, or they're gettin nuked pretty bad by the mob or the nukes arent hitting, in the end, a five minute fight turns into 10-15, and they wonder; what happened there? now, don't worry, i always step in when things get too out of hand, i dont like seeing my pt die, but i do wish to teach them a lesson, and if they won't learn it the easy way, they learn it the hard way. RDM's do have a purpose other thanbeing refresh/regain whores. thankfully, most ppl i pt with realize that. its the n00bs who still have yet to get it.
I agree totally i can't count how many time i have saved the white mage for dying but do i get thatnks nooo. Not too mention the other 4 memebers. I have been the main healer in so many pt's it's not even funny. The thing is the pt where i am the main healer nobody ever dies and we will fight things way out of our leauge. Like he says lay off lets us do what we do and you won't get killed if you let people do what they do best everything works out better.
i'd like to see you main heal a pt with out a whm, and chain ITs.. i have, and it isnt fun in the least, unless you have a mad supply of ethers, you just can not keep up with the damage being dealt per mob. in those situations, im lucky to get two mobs in before i have to full rest, and thats WITH refresh/regain on my pt.
Unless your main job is a REDMAGE then you should stfu and let us do our damn job.
Amen Brother! Preach On! I always see ppl that don't have the a rdm on the redmage's forum trying to throw thier three pennies into the mix! Im a lvl 39rdm/blm, but you will never catch me posting onto the warriors site telling them the art of provoking... Once again, kudos to you /bow
I can tell you having played as a rdm that they do get overlooked, mainly because their presence isnt as obvious as your hp going back up or the mob taking damage..but pt's with rdm will generally perform better than without. My main char being a ninja, I can also tell you that I generally prefer to have a rdm as our healer than a whm..rdm can participate in a broader role than a whm, and with my blinking, I just dont need the healing a whm gives.
Thank you. I get tired of people saying RDMs are useless until they reach lv 41 for Refresh, at which point we are expected to simply cast Refresh. One member of a recent pt in Crawler's Nest whined because the leader invited me, a RDM/BLM, saying we "aren't useful until lv 41". Excuse me, let me jump back, not enfeeble, heal, or nuke(all of which I do while engaged), and we'll see what happens. I'm sad to admit I did this very thing for a bit during one battle, and they immediately began to struggle. The WHM couldn't keep everyone healed, the damage quickly began to wane, etc. I jumped in and did my job, and the mob fell fairly quickly. So friends, please, don't assume we're useless. Give that lonely RDM with their flag up a chance and we'll show you what we can do. =D
Thank you I know what your saying someone told me a lnl 25 rdm lvl 10 whm that i wasn't needed till lvl 41 I got invted to a pt 2 minutes later and we lasted for 5 hours.
I'm glad that you two red mages had your little temper tantrium, but you need to stop and think for a second. People are going to think all they want about what you are and aren't to a party. But, when you start to belittle the black and white mages you start to talk about things you do not know. I have played rdm pre 40's and post 40s on my other name. Now I am a 50 blm / 25 whm atm and I can tell you i enfeebel if needed I nuke, I heal and I DONT WINE!!! I agree that rdm is over looked but dont over look other people like that have done to you. It is hard being an Elvaan mage but what I lack in mp i make up for in knowladge and experience! SO to you red mages that are overlooked !!! I love you all!!
i agree, only 39 rdm at the moment but i won't say i can take the place of a whm or a blm. it's all in the mechanics of the party. a party is a teem and if all memebers dont' pull their weight, then the party suffers. redmages are a supportive job. yes i've spent the time seeking and i appreciate the invites but every job forum you go to has people whining about how others tell them how todo their job...all of them...every last one. sometimes this is meant as a helpful pointer, othertimes it's meant as a slap in the face. either way it can't be avoided unless you go with what's expected. i love meleeing as a rdm, i like healing, and bursting's fun too, but rdm's are meant to enhance a party, not to replace it
Paladins have mp and cast spells.....do you want them standing in the back ALL the time only casting??? Really stop getting mucked up on the title. I am not saying they should be fighting all the time, but your rather silly reference is NOT to the point. I could just as easily point out to you that UNLIKE blm and WHM I can equip a sword. OOOPSIE
Paladins have mp and cast spells.....do you want them standing in the back ALL the time only casting??? Really stop getting mucked up on the title. I am not saying they should be fighting all the time, but your rather silly reference is NOT to the point. I could just as easily point out to you that UNLIKE blm and WHM I can equip a sword. OOOPSIE