I voted today!Follow

Euthanasia would probably be more humane.

Except that it's a lot easier to gerrymander district boundaries than states. My point was in response to a post talking about the issue of gerrymandering affecting how EC votes are won or lost, so that does seem relevant.

It is, in fact, tremendously easy to not compare civil rights to wanting a pony. Like, incredibly simple.

Of course you'll feel comfortable doing it. That's pretty much part and parcel of who you are as a person.

Edited, Dec 1st 2016 5:52pm by Jophiel

I think that is what you meant to say

Now? Except they did.

For some reason, I don't think these same people would say "those are the rules" if the EC voted in Clinton on 19 DEC. I would guess it would be a total flip on both sides.

Nah. It would be a deus ex machina save for Clinton in 2016 but she would still be better served by a popular vote (based purely off the 2016 numbers) in 2020. It's not as though you want the system where you have to rely on the EC going rogue against the state totals.

Edited, Dec 4th 2016 7:10pm by Jophiel

Oh like that's anything new.

No, those millions of votes were all illegal. Trump won the popular vote as well. We have proof of this because Trump said so.

PROOF? Who needs proof? Not these folks.

I think you have to be realistic and assume many people never leave facebook, so anything that happened or didn't happen outside of facebook doesn't matter. I mean the reality of voter fraud isn't as important as the fact that your second cousin got 3 more likes for linking it than you did, even though you linked it first and you share most of the same friends. I mean when everyone is obviously out to get you like that what are you supposed to do?

And several studies that have consistently shown somewhere between 6-7% of respondents identifying themselves as illegal immigrants reporting that they voted. Of course, these studies are often "debunked" by showing how, when they went back to those who reported this and asked them about it in a second round, they either denied voting, or claimed that they were mistaken when they said they were here illegally. Cause there would be no reason to do that other than to just clear up a misunderstanding, right? The whole "it's a felony and automatic grounds for deportation" perhaps ranking pretty darn high.

There are also a number of other studies that have estimated that somewhere between 13% and 25% of illegal immigrants are registered to vote. That doesn't mean that they actually do vote, but it's still a problem. And that's honestly just the tip of the iceberg. There are some absurd protections for illegal immigrants in this country that most people would be surprised about. We knowingly allow them to attend public universities. We knowingly grant them driver's licenses (because, apparently, it would be a violation of their rights not to allow them to drive). Seriously, here in hippy-dippy land, we actually passed a law that creates a special driver's licenses for people who cannot prove that they are in the country legally (AB-60). It literally exists solely for the purpose of allowing illegal immigrants to get a license. Ironically, despite it having a special identification clearly indicating that it is this form of license (and apparently can't be used for ID purposes, but I'm reasonably certain that it is anyway), it's also illegal to use it as a means of determining that someone is here illegally, nor can someone showing this license be reported to ICE. That's... insane. Apparently, over half a million such licenses were granted in the first year of the program alone.

Of course, we also have a law that automatically registers anyone with a license to vote. Ironically, one can argue that this makes things less likely to result in illegals voting, since the special AB-60 licenses don't trigger a registration process. Previously, an illegal could just use false documentation to get a license, and be automatically registered. So I suppose this might be a case of two bad ideas almost cancelling each other out. Of course, that does not at all prevent an illegal from simply filling out a registration form (like say from any random person asking for signatures for a petition), and being put on the roles. And in California, we have no state wide tracking system for voter registration. It's all done in a haphazard manner. So there's massive potential for abuse and fraud, especially among a population that already exists by means of false IDs. Despite perception to the contrary, most illegals aren't camping out somewhere doing under the table day labor. Most of them have false identities and use legitimate SSNs with those false IDs (which is never checked by the SS administration, nor the IRS, much less reported to ICE when the quite obvious symptom of two people with different names using the same number crops up). They use the false IDs to get employment and housing. Which in turn is used to get bank accounts. Which in turn makes it nearly impossible to tell that they aren't citizens.

Illegal immigrants don't get fake IDs that identify them as legal immigrants. They get fake IDs that identify them as citizens. It's kinda foolish to assume that they might not take that a step further and register to vote (cause no one checks), and then actually vote (because, again, no one checks). Not only does no one check, but we go out of our way to look the other direction and make absolutely sure that the illegals know that we're doing so. Not because we want them to vote, of course. That would be illegal. Just to make sure they don't feel like they're in danger. You know. In case they accidentally register to vote, and then accidentally fill out a ballot, perhaps not even knowing they aren't supposed to, right? It would be totally wrong of us to punish them for such a thing.

Is the number 3 million? Probably not. I would not at all be surprised if the number was in excess of 1 million though, and only mildly so if it were more like 2 million. There are just too many states with too many illegal immigrants with more or less zero means to prevent it to think it's not happening. Couple that with get out the vote language that seems to be specially tailored to encourage everyone to vote (and with repeated points about how important it is for illegals for the votes to go a certain way, but you know, not for the illegals to actually vote, just other Spanish speaking people to do so on their behalf. nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more...). It really is amusing to listen to the advertisements on this, and how they tap dance around the language to not actually say "we need as many illegals to vote as possible", while really pretty obviously saying "if you're illegal, you need to vote, or dire things will happen to you, your family, your friends, etc). There's a whole lot of "saying this, but clearly meaning that" going on in this area.

While Trump's claims may be a bit overblown, it's not the insignificant thing that so many people dismiss it as. We don't know how big a problem it is because, as per usual, the Democrats block any effort to even investigate the issue. The excuse is that they don't want to risk disenfranchising even a single legal citizen, but the result is that we can't even look to see if our registration roles are accurate. Actually, scratch that, we know they are inaccurate, but no one is allowed to go through and fix the inaccuracies. Everyone just "looks the other way", while whistling innocently. And the means they use to detect voter fraud apparently consists of "did any voters complain about fraud". Um... It's not like the folks voting illegally are wearing signs saying so, and no one's going to report themselves, so how is that a useful methodology?

It's not. The reality is that we have no clue how many people are voting illegally, especially here in California. And maybe that's the real problem.