small thing:
i'm tipping that a shadow priest would never take a 'normal' priest spot and use it for DPS. that slot is for healers and healers you would get. the shadow priest would be considered as a dps class.
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Shadow priest in end game PvEFollow
bobgote wrote:
small thing:
i'm tipping that a shadow priest would never take a 'normal' priest spot and use it for DPS. that slot is for healers and healers you would get. the shadow priest would be considered as a dps class.
i'm tipping that a shadow priest would never take a 'normal' priest spot and use it for DPS. that slot is for healers and healers you would get. the shadow priest would be considered as a dps class.
How selfish.
You have a hunter main, you know how hard it is to get a spot in a raid with the over abundance of DPS. Now your gonna fill another DPS spot with a PRIEST!?!?
Poor hunters/rogues, getting pushed aside by healers too.
my raids would be all hunters if i could make it that way. :D
but the shadow priest would take a warlock or mage spot. not a hunter/rogue spot. of course. they do like magicky stuff. ;)
but the shadow priest would take a warlock or mage spot. not a hunter/rogue spot. of course. they do like magicky stuff. ;)
Quote:
In 1.10 the difference WILL be significant. At this point, meh. But post 1.10 you can bet your *** a holy/disc priest will heal MUCH better.
Take your "noobass" and "gtho" comments to the O boards.
Take your "noobass" and "gtho" comments to the O boards.
fine that bet is on. as far as im concerned both holy and discpline indeed got buffed but far more in the way in pvp then pve. only notable increase is
1.lightwell (really usefull in large raids)
2.spirit healer (nice utility)
3.lowering in tier of inner focus(but shadow priest can ALSO get this talent now so it doesnt count)
Quote:
Becasue baseless ranting and raving is the way to prove something, I belive you, O crap, No I dont. Currently a holy spec heals about 10-15% more and has a effecenty higher than a shadow priest, so they can keep helaing, but untill the next patch, the best healers in the game are not holy or shadow, it is the mana manegment tools of a disc prist that rules as king. Can you heal in MC with no holy points? Yes, and do it well.
Untill the next patch, nothing but flash heal is used in the (Endgame), well heal wize, and beyond that, it is all about sheilds.
Untill the next patch, nothing but flash heal is used in the (Endgame), well heal wize, and beyond that, it is all about sheilds.
your are wrong holy priest heal 10% better base. You know very well that any priest will be stacking on healing gear to lower his healing ranks. and because the 10% is applied before the + healing that 10% means very little.
second because so many very mana conservetive talents in the disc tree has been moved to a lower tier shadow priest will benfit almost 50% of these changes. and even if you are more mana conservitive with disc/holy build it doens't change that gear is the most importent thing that matters. if you cling to the concept gear<spec dont expect any respect from me.like te 2 persons above me that posted on a subject they apperently know nothing about
12 posts
hey all,
just wanted to clear up a misconception regarding +heal gear and lower rank heal spells.
Lower rank heal spells do NOT get the full benefit of the +heal gear. For example, if you are wearing +400 heal gear and cast a renew rank 9, you will get the full benefit. But if you cast a renew rank 1, you only get a percentage the +400. Blizzard does this because giving full +heal benefit to low level heals is grossly unbalanced. Why would anyone even bother casting the higher level spells, if they get near the same heal with a low level spell. If you don't believe me, check the faq on the o-board, http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-priest&t=125973&p=1&tmp=1#post125973
Also, no one on this post ever said gear was not important. Clearly a shadowpriest in full tier 2 gear will majorly outheal disp/holy priest in tier 0 gear. hell, even full tier 1 gear will give him the edge.
But because gear is important does not mean spec means nothing.
Like many priests i was shadow until level 60. I was was a damn good healer, and was often complemented by others. But after i switched to disp/holy, i was a much more effective healer, even with the current poorly designed disp and holy tree.
15% mana regen in combat, increasing the tanks armor by 25% with every crit heal(approx 1/8 chance), free spell every 5 min, 10% bigger mana pool, 25% bigger renew, and 10% better for other heals.
Are these great benefits? hell no.
Are they significant? Simply yes
The shadow tree clearly better though out, but to say the other trees have nothing to offer a healer is more than a bit wrong.
just my 2 cents.
just wanted to clear up a misconception regarding +heal gear and lower rank heal spells.
Lower rank heal spells do NOT get the full benefit of the +heal gear. For example, if you are wearing +400 heal gear and cast a renew rank 9, you will get the full benefit. But if you cast a renew rank 1, you only get a percentage the +400. Blizzard does this because giving full +heal benefit to low level heals is grossly unbalanced. Why would anyone even bother casting the higher level spells, if they get near the same heal with a low level spell. If you don't believe me, check the faq on the o-board, http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-priest&t=125973&p=1&tmp=1#post125973
Also, no one on this post ever said gear was not important. Clearly a shadowpriest in full tier 2 gear will majorly outheal disp/holy priest in tier 0 gear. hell, even full tier 1 gear will give him the edge.
But because gear is important does not mean spec means nothing.
Like many priests i was shadow until level 60. I was was a damn good healer, and was often complemented by others. But after i switched to disp/holy, i was a much more effective healer, even with the current poorly designed disp and holy tree.
15% mana regen in combat, increasing the tanks armor by 25% with every crit heal(approx 1/8 chance), free spell every 5 min, 10% bigger mana pool, 25% bigger renew, and 10% better for other heals.
Are these great benefits? hell no.
Are they significant? Simply yes
The shadow tree clearly better though out, but to say the other trees have nothing to offer a healer is more than a bit wrong.
just my 2 cents.
wel lets see then
Using: rank 4 healing touch
Cast time: 3 seconds meaning: 83% healing effcient
feral druid: 30/21
http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rank4ht5999jt.jpg
this is only to demonstrate, so dont get the priest/druid discussion going.
btw kysam once again you dont know what your talking about.
lets take a closer look:
25% armor healing crit: i agree this is a nice buff remebmer this is only usefull for non epic tanks because their is a 75% damage reduction cap.
inner focus: every shadow priest will have this talent in patch 1.10 so this conversation is mute
15% mana reg increase: not really a big deal good for few extra hundered mana points
10% mana: i agree that this is a very good talent
10% bigger heals: is to be considerd not effective because
1. it´s aplied before +healing gear check
2. because you use lowest level rank to heal this sucks even more
(The talent gives only 50 extra BIG DEAL)
your aim is to use level 2 heal and get it to heal for 1000. once you have accomplished this you are ready for some serious raiding.
does spec matter: as you can see very very little
does gear matter: it is the most importent thing when healing
edited for grammar
Edited, Sat Mar 11 06:01:53 2006 by Jaigen
Edited, Sat Mar 11 06:00:24 2006 by Jaigen
Edited, Sat Mar 11 06:04:08 2006 by Jaigen
Using: rank 4 healing touch
Cast time: 3 seconds meaning: 83% healing effcient
feral druid: 30/21
http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rank4ht5999jt.jpg
this is only to demonstrate, so dont get the priest/druid discussion going.
btw kysam once again you dont know what your talking about.
lets take a closer look:
25% armor healing crit: i agree this is a nice buff remebmer this is only usefull for non epic tanks because their is a 75% damage reduction cap.
inner focus: every shadow priest will have this talent in patch 1.10 so this conversation is mute
15% mana reg increase: not really a big deal good for few extra hundered mana points
10% mana: i agree that this is a very good talent
10% bigger heals: is to be considerd not effective because
1. it´s aplied before +healing gear check
2. because you use lowest level rank to heal this sucks even more
(The talent gives only 50 extra BIG DEAL)
your aim is to use level 2 heal and get it to heal for 1000. once you have accomplished this you are ready for some serious raiding.
does spec matter: as you can see very very little
does gear matter: it is the most importent thing when healing
edited for grammar
Edited, Sat Mar 11 06:01:53 2006 by Jaigen
Edited, Sat Mar 11 06:00:24 2006 by Jaigen
Edited, Sat Mar 11 06:04:08 2006 by Jaigen
12 posts
/sigh.
Jaigen, why not read my entire post before responding, or claiming i don't know what i am talking about.
Obviously great gear will trump spec. I openly agree in my previous post. I quite clearly state a shadow priest in tier one gear will out heal a holy priest. Please read the ENTIRE post, not just some parts.
What you forget is that Bobgote's original post is about a shadow priest that JUST reached 60. How many priests that just turned 60 have uber gear. Hell, when i just turned sixty, the best I had was few peices of devout. If you were one of the lucky ones to be in epic gear right when you hit 60, great for you. Most of us are not that lucky.
Let me state this again so it is clear for you.
YES, GOOD GEAR WILL MAKE A SHADOW PRIEST JUST AS GOOD AS A HOLY PRIEST.
But how many priests that just hit 60, really have good gear?
Getting good gear takes time and effort. Until you can get that uber gear, switching out of shadow into disp or holy will make you a better healer.
Edited, Sat Mar 11 19:21:08 2006 by kysam
Jaigen, why not read my entire post before responding, or claiming i don't know what i am talking about.
Obviously great gear will trump spec. I openly agree in my previous post. I quite clearly state a shadow priest in tier one gear will out heal a holy priest. Please read the ENTIRE post, not just some parts.
What you forget is that Bobgote's original post is about a shadow priest that JUST reached 60. How many priests that just turned 60 have uber gear. Hell, when i just turned sixty, the best I had was few peices of devout. If you were one of the lucky ones to be in epic gear right when you hit 60, great for you. Most of us are not that lucky.
Let me state this again so it is clear for you.
YES, GOOD GEAR WILL MAKE A SHADOW PRIEST JUST AS GOOD AS A HOLY PRIEST.
But how many priests that just hit 60, really have good gear?
Getting good gear takes time and effort. Until you can get that uber gear, switching out of shadow into disp or holy will make you a better healer.
Edited, Sat Mar 11 19:21:08 2006 by kysam
3 posts
While i am no were near the uber gear a priest does that raids MC/BWL. I am Shadowspecced and while i will fully admit i am no were i the DPS category as Warlocks mages etc are. THe DPS i do in Shadowform heals the entire party. In the 12 Runs through MC and 3 in BWL as ShadowSpecced have never lost a party member unless who raid Wiped or they Overnuked and were laid to waste in 3 seconds. With doing 1k in damge and i heal party 20 to 30% i believe that is much more favorable as you are Killing the mob a bit faster and keeping ones party alive also... GO ahead and flame if wanted just my opinion
Xenlira wrote:
While i am no were near the uber gear a priest does that raids MC/BWL. I am Shadowspecced and while i will fully admit i am no were i the DPS category as Warlocks mages etc are. THe DPS i do in Shadowform heals the entire party. In the 12 Runs through MC and 3 in BWL as ShadowSpecced have never lost a party member unless who raid Wiped or they Overnuked and were laid to waste in 3 seconds. With doing 1k in damge and i heal party 20 to 30% i believe that is much more favorable as you are Killing the mob a bit faster and keeping ones party alive also... GO ahead and flame if wanted just my opinion
Anyone who has posted in the priest forums here a while knows my stance on end-game Priest DPS...
However,
This is just a sincere question since I have only been in 2 MC raids.
Both times I was in a party of all healers. My whole party was priests.
Is this common practice? Or is it just the way that particular guild did things.
If that is common practice, VE is kinda "meh" if it only HoTs your fellow priests.
you wouldn't put a shadow specced priest in a group of other priests. you'd probably put them in the same group as rogues, i'm guessing. rogues or warriors. the people for whom a trickle down heal is best for.
an all priest group is so because they are a "healing" group. when i've been in MC, the groups never remain just all one class. i haven't been along that often though.
an all priest group is so because they are a "healing" group. when i've been in MC, the groups never remain just all one class. i haven't been along that often though.
Nah, i have been to quiet a few MC raids and it´s not common practice to put all healers(priests) in one group. It is common practice to put them rogues in one group and then they are on their own^^.
As for the shadow/holy discussion, i used to be holy-specced since i hit lvl 53, but now i used the talentpoint-reset to spec full shadow, 13 points in disc 38 points in shadow. I will go to MC tomorrow and tell you how it went^^ (unless they find out before and won´t let me go, muha)
As for the shadow/holy discussion, i used to be holy-specced since i hit lvl 53, but now i used the talentpoint-reset to spec full shadow, 13 points in disc 38 points in shadow. I will go to MC tomorrow and tell you how it went^^ (unless they find out before and won´t let me go, muha)
Scholar
16 posts
I have a problem with this make the Shadow Priest be a dedicated healer thing.
The idea that it is selfish or hurting the guild to build a Shadow Priest irks me. Why is building or playing a Shadow Priest instead of a dedicated healer any different than building any other character instead of a dedicated healer? At least the Shadow Priest has the ability to contribute to the guilds healing needs. If the guild needs a dedicated healer why strong arm the guy that has been carrying the load? Do the players serve the guild or does the guild serve the players?
Priests are priests not healers. We have three trees just like the other classes and we have just as much right to use those trees. In my experience priests are the class least likely to be ignoring the needs of the group or guild.
If were going to strong arm someone into playing a dedicated healer, lets pick on someone who has no respect for the job healers do and shows no consideration for how much work they create for heelers. Thats the person that will make the biggest healing difference. The guild gets a triple benefit that way: the Shadow Priest is there to heal & dps, a major consumer of healing is eliminated and a dedicated healer is gained as a bonus.
Edited, Tue Apr 4 18:25:23 2006 by MacMitch
Edited, Tue Apr 4 18:30:02 2006 by MacMitch
The idea that it is selfish or hurting the guild to build a Shadow Priest irks me. Why is building or playing a Shadow Priest instead of a dedicated healer any different than building any other character instead of a dedicated healer? At least the Shadow Priest has the ability to contribute to the guilds healing needs. If the guild needs a dedicated healer why strong arm the guy that has been carrying the load? Do the players serve the guild or does the guild serve the players?
Priests are priests not healers. We have three trees just like the other classes and we have just as much right to use those trees. In my experience priests are the class least likely to be ignoring the needs of the group or guild.
If were going to strong arm someone into playing a dedicated healer, lets pick on someone who has no respect for the job healers do and shows no consideration for how much work they create for heelers. Thats the person that will make the biggest healing difference. The guild gets a triple benefit that way: the Shadow Priest is there to heal & dps, a major consumer of healing is eliminated and a dedicated healer is gained as a bonus.
Edited, Tue Apr 4 18:25:23 2006 by MacMitch
Edited, Tue Apr 4 18:30:02 2006 by MacMitch
4 Priests (including me) 3 shamans and 2 druids as healers today in MC and we made it to Garr (and killed him) with no problems. Seems like if one of the healers in shadow-specced it ain´t that bad^^
Granted, this is mostly what I've read, but within a few weeks hopefully I'll be able to prove some of it if I can talk my guild into it...
-15% bonus damage to warlocks. This right here is enough for a 31/20 disc/shadow priest.
-Easily-obtainable constant 300-400dps. With +130 damage simply using Mind Flay and SW:P hits you to 300+ dps.
-Unlimited mana pool to warlocks with Vampiric Embrace.
- -45% threat. Unlike mages and warlocks, who *must* spend several seconds on cooldown after crits, shadow priests can keep their cosntant dps.
-Because of the -threat, a well-played AND well-geared shadow priest WILL place top 10 if not top 5 for damage at least on single boss fights if not over an entire run.
-The ability to drop out of shadowform and heal when needed on especially chaotic or unlearned fights.
-The two things unique about priests over other healers (besides their more efficient heals) are sheilds and dispel magic - both which can be used in shadowform and offer no boost in effictiveness when specced disc or holy (and, in fact, may offer better results in a shadow priest because of the -15% physical damage in the event of AoE's or multiple mobs taken at once).
In 5 and 10-mans, it all comes down to the player's ability. I did my first two Scholo runs today. They were, for the most part, easy to heal - especially when compared to ZG and MC. My second one a little less so because of less experienced players and goofups from all the classes. If I hadn't been spamming Mind Flay and Vamperic Embrace on easy pulls, they probably would have never known I was shadow.
In 5 and 10-mans going dps (please don't be an idiot and do this when there's not another healer), you can easily offer support to the healer with VE. I'm usually healing right around 40hp/sec to the entire group when in shadowform. That's easily enough to top off the heal bars from minor AoE, lifetaps, and helps keep the tank's health up a bit and makes it easier on the healer. And when **** hits the fan, you can drop out and start the flashheal spam or PoH (which, btw, is awesome with Inner Focus... +25%crit per party member ftw!) Plus, since shadow priests focus on +damage, you will generally recieve close to the same bonus to healing as to damage (not quite the same because of a few +shadowdamage items, and still beneath +healing gear, but still gives a significant bonus).
Edited, Thu Apr 6 01:19:28 2006 by lsfreak
-15% bonus damage to warlocks. This right here is enough for a 31/20 disc/shadow priest.
-Easily-obtainable constant 300-400dps. With +130 damage simply using Mind Flay and SW:P hits you to 300+ dps.
-Unlimited mana pool to warlocks with Vampiric Embrace.
- -45% threat. Unlike mages and warlocks, who *must* spend several seconds on cooldown after crits, shadow priests can keep their cosntant dps.
-Because of the -threat, a well-played AND well-geared shadow priest WILL place top 10 if not top 5 for damage at least on single boss fights if not over an entire run.
-The ability to drop out of shadowform and heal when needed on especially chaotic or unlearned fights.
-The two things unique about priests over other healers (besides their more efficient heals) are sheilds and dispel magic - both which can be used in shadowform and offer no boost in effictiveness when specced disc or holy (and, in fact, may offer better results in a shadow priest because of the -15% physical damage in the event of AoE's or multiple mobs taken at once).
In 5 and 10-mans, it all comes down to the player's ability. I did my first two Scholo runs today. They were, for the most part, easy to heal - especially when compared to ZG and MC. My second one a little less so because of less experienced players and goofups from all the classes. If I hadn't been spamming Mind Flay and Vamperic Embrace on easy pulls, they probably would have never known I was shadow.
In 5 and 10-mans going dps (please don't be an idiot and do this when there's not another healer), you can easily offer support to the healer with VE. I'm usually healing right around 40hp/sec to the entire group when in shadowform. That's easily enough to top off the heal bars from minor AoE, lifetaps, and helps keep the tank's health up a bit and makes it easier on the healer. And when **** hits the fan, you can drop out and start the flashheal spam or PoH (which, btw, is awesome with Inner Focus... +25%crit per party member ftw!) Plus, since shadow priests focus on +damage, you will generally recieve close to the same bonus to healing as to damage (not quite the same because of a few +shadowdamage items, and still beneath +healing gear, but still gives a significant bonus).
Edited, Thu Apr 6 01:19:28 2006 by lsfreak
1 post
Priests were made to be primary healers, it's as simple as that, though that doesn't necessarily limit you to any specific tree of talents. Being in a guild who does all end-game raid content, we try have around 6 priests in all 40 man instances, so while 5 may be holy/disc or disc/holy, as a whole it would benefit the raid if one was a shadow priest, almost purely for their Shadow Weave ability.
Take some fights which require you to nuke the crap out of a boss (ie. Onyxia, Ragnaros, Vaelstrasz, Lord Kazzak just to name a few), to have 15% extra shadow dmg greatly increases the dps dealt within a certain period of time when you have 5 locks nuking and priests casting SW:P when they are comfortable with their current mana situation.
IMO every raid should have a shadow priest, in fact I believe it so much I'm respeccing as soon as I get my new gfx card and can log again :D (only respeccing cause our old shadow priests specced into disc/holy, PI ftw!)
Take some fights which require you to nuke the crap out of a boss (ie. Onyxia, Ragnaros, Vaelstrasz, Lord Kazzak just to name a few), to have 15% extra shadow dmg greatly increases the dps dealt within a certain period of time when you have 5 locks nuking and priests casting SW:P when they are comfortable with their current mana situation.
IMO every raid should have a shadow priest, in fact I believe it so much I'm respeccing as soon as I get my new gfx card and can log again :D (only respeccing cause our old shadow priests specced into disc/holy, PI ftw!)
When I'm "comfortable with my current mana situation" (which is almost always, thanks to massive manaregeneration), I start casting smites, which is a lot more dps than my puny SW:P. Even my wand does more dps...
4 posts
I've been a Priest since Beta (euro) and have enjoyed both the PvP and PvE elements of my class. I've been a holy/shadow and a tri spec priest but haven't been online to try the new 1.10 patch changes. At the moment (pre 1.10) i was a shadow priest as we have 9 priests in guild, most were holy and me and 2 others were shadow.
Now, i was a good healer still and had a lot more fun with our pvping (we're on a pvp server and we're a good pvping guild). Now this has no effect on our PvE as we have Mc, BWL, ZG, AQ20 all done, and AQ40 we're nearly through the 4th boss. Now, a priest named Onlinehero, shadow spec'ed and a fantastic healer and excellent pvp player (hated by horde alike) so the simple answer is yes you can have the best of both worls if your good enough.
Edited, Wed Apr 19 09:13:01 2006 by KungpowTwlight
Now, i was a good healer still and had a lot more fun with our pvping (we're on a pvp server and we're a good pvping guild). Now this has no effect on our PvE as we have Mc, BWL, ZG, AQ20 all done, and AQ40 we're nearly through the 4th boss. Now, a priest named Onlinehero, shadow spec'ed and a fantastic healer and excellent pvp player (hated by horde alike) so the simple answer is yes you can have the best of both worls if your good enough.
Edited, Wed Apr 19 09:13:01 2006 by KungpowTwlight
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