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Shadow priest in end game PvEFollow

#1 Feb 18 2006 at 10:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Ok. You hit level 60. Is that the end of your shadow priest?

I know the majority opinion is 'YES'. however i've seen around here a few people arguing that shadow priests have a perfectly good setup for end game. I'd like to hear principally from these people. What does it take?

A guild that is experienced and good enough to know what works? My guild is just getting MC down and is of the opinion that priests are good for only healing and nothing else. Is there any evidence out there to visibly display shadow priest value?
#2 Feb 19 2006 at 9:03 AM Rating: Decent
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In the end you're always going to have to heal before doing DPS, it _is_ after all the class you choose. Of course, nothing stops you from doing this with the majority of your talent points in Shadow. If your guild can spare your healing, just go DPS. Of course if they want you to go disc/holy for whatever reason (which is just as likely as it is unlikely :)) just go with it or stick to raiding on your Hunter ;)
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Lashima, Dwarf Priest - Emerald Dream
#3 Feb 19 2006 at 4:48 PM Rating: Default
look... don't mind about your spot in the team... if you say you're a damage dealer say it... i'm a druid... i can pack a punch but in groups i always want to be the mainhealer... just do what you like... they'll understand
#4 Feb 20 2006 at 11:03 AM Rating: Decent
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I've never been to MC. I have no idea what the boss fights are like in there.

I know that a lot of bosses have an AoE radius that the range attackers generally stay outside of. Mind Flay's range is too short, leaving your damage options very limited, and really quite below the damage of the good old mindflay SW: P combo.

You might be fine getting away with DPS on trash mobs, but I don't know about the bosses.
#5 Feb 20 2006 at 11:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Shadow Priests are great in end-game raiding. Problem is most raids are short on healers and you should be focusing on what the raid needs most. If the healing is covered, GO SHADOW! Never listen to the norrow minded, "you must heal only" posts. You can still heal much better than most classes while shadow specc'd. I would love to see those non-protection specc'd warriors out heal ME! We are not on MC farm status, so I mostly heal during Boss fights, but Shadow for the trash. Everyone says wow, the trash are dieing quick on nights I run my shadow priest in MC. I wonder why? Could it be 1 more DD and +15% shadow damage for the warlocks vs. 1 less healer standing around?
You really should be specc'd PVE Shadow. That means dropping talent points into reducing your damage aggro. This will help you tons. Mind Blast only after good aggro is gotten by your tanks and then not all the time. Vampiric Embrace should be used sparrily(SP). Healing and DPS for 350 per sec pulls aggro fast. DPS for 350 per sec with aggro reducing talents, rarely pulls aggro, just watch out for the odd non-tanked target and you are fine.
Gear will always be a real pain to get, but then so is healing cloth drops. Seems like healing rarely drops and you have to fight all cloth casters for +dmg/+shadow stuff.
PS. Look in the offical WOW forums, lots of shadow priest posts and some very good numbers to highlight the upside of having a shadow priest in raid.
#6 Feb 21 2006 at 12:42 AM Rating: Decent
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i hate the WoW boards. but i'll go have a look.

and yeah i'm going into the aggro reducing stuff. i think my end build will be 13/0/38 with 5 points in each of the aggro reducing talents. i don't know if the martyrdom thing is worthwhile. if not it will be even heavier on the shadow :) (may invest in the anti-stun/silence talent though). thing with the shadow tree is that i think that every single talent is worthwhile hehe. the one i don't have points in is improved mind blast :) although i'm re-speccing soon. (well that and affinity, but i'll put them in affinity too if i can).
#7 Feb 21 2006 at 9:03 AM Rating: Decent
While it is true many bosses have some serious range requirements (lucifron has a 40 yard effect) ... the irony here is that priests have the ability to wipe many of these effects off of themselves (dispel will remove half of luci's badness ... your druid/mages will remove the other half in course). Between shield and dispel and shadowpriest is uniquely qualified, of all ranged DPSers, to stand within the range of most MC bosses. Its kind of interesting when you get down to it how well it works out.

That said yes if your raid needs healing, you will be hurting them by not stepping up to the plate. I mean mages, locks, rogues, and hunters can't exactly turn into healers on a dime ... I guess maybe they could run around bandaging people but that's not gonna get them too far. :)
#8 Feb 21 2006 at 9:43 AM Rating: Decent
Shadow priests are great end game if you can spare the heals because of the fact that they not only increase there own damage but also warlocks dmg by alot with shadow weaving(not to mention they give warlocks unlimited mana with vamp embrace via lifetap). Id have to say youd be crazy to have more then 1 shadow priest in endgame. But if your alliance and youd like to do some damage on your priest but still be effective at healing find your self a retribution paly that is crusader judgement happy. Its only a couple points to improve your smite vs healing which means you can sit there and spam smite to no end.

BTW: I have smite speced with a retribution paly and gotten smite crits for almost 1500. Then again thats with a ton of +dmg and the extra 20% holy dmg from a retribution paly.

Edited, Tue Feb 21 09:48:42 2006 by Alphahammer
#9 Feb 21 2006 at 8:11 PM Rating: Decent
I am a shadow priest and in my guild I DPS for shadow weave and damage against both Rag and Ony. As we make our way through BWL I am sure I will get to use more of my shadow skills. My shadow gear has me just over 400 added shadow damage while my healing gear, well lets not add the bonus that does to my healing spells. Its imo that there is no need to go holy or dis to be a good healer. Sure I could heal more if I were, but damn being shadow gives me so much more to do then, heal, renew wait *yawn* heal.
#10 Mar 03 2006 at 10:50 PM Rating: Good
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In a 5-man scholo run with Me(shadow priest) a lock, a warrior, a pally, and a rogue, The lock and I did about 60% of the damage. I got a MB crit for 1200 out of shadowform. I occasionaly had to heal when it hit the fan, but we got through without any wipes.

The thing about shadow preist damage is that it ramps up, making it better for boss fights than trash. Once you have full shadow weaving, and maby a curse of shadow, you can do insane amounts of damage. And assuming you do 300 dps, you're healing 60 hps to your party(90 hps post 1.10 with imp VE). Not bad.

That being said, shadow priest DPS is fairly mana ineficient, at least in my experiance. So if you can't get spirit tap(I.e. unlucky on trash mobs or MC boss fights), you have to stop fairly soon. If you were to put points in meditation and stack some mana/5 sec gear, you would be able to go longer.

I've never been to MC myself (7 consecutive attempts at getting attuned have failed), but my experiance in UBRS, Strat and Scholo say that a shadow priest is a wonderful asset to any group, and make the perfect off healer to a resto druid.
#11 Mar 04 2006 at 6:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Well as a warlock i love grouping with shadow priests. It's like playing with a whole new class that no one other than priests themselves really know about. Th 15% extra shadow dam is very nice, and we can put curse of shadows on for another 10% extra and reducing shadow dam by 70. I haven't been to MC, but for other end game pre-MC instances in my experiences shadow priest have made fun and powerful allies.

Edited, Sat Mar 4 06:28:37 2006 by Kangaxxx
#12 Mar 04 2006 at 7:09 AM Rating: Good
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92 posts
We have a Shadow Priest who runs MC with us. However, she is a Warlord, and no-ones really gonna turn around and tell her she has to heal.

It's good to see positive feed back on them though.
#13 Mar 04 2006 at 8:43 PM Rating: Decent
You can be shadow spec and still heal there is nothing wrong with that. Your heals will still be good, Lots of Priests stay shadow spec and still heal because there isnt such a dramatic difference. However if you plan to never PvP then go holy/disc but if you want to PvP then stay shadow spec also you should never do anything but heal in raids because you have to efficiently manage your mana and that cant be done if you are mind blasting/flaying everything. The only fight which i can think of where you can use your shadow spells is against Vaelastraz where you get ~500 mana a second from that sexy buff
#14 Mar 05 2006 at 1:15 AM Rating: Decent
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80 posts
I was a ShadowPriest to 60, and even for a while after 60, doing cash runs, gear quests, and lots of PvP. I finally decided to switch to disc/holy because that is what my guild needed me to do. We -might- have been ok in our raids with me as a shadowpriest, but I felt like that was being selfish.

This is oversimplifying the process, but by switching to holy, I was helping 19 other people enjoy the game, and I was allowing myself access to better gear from the raids because I can go 100% of the time. If I had stayed shadow, there may not have been as many slots for me to go raiding, and if I had gone, it would have been in a healing capacity anyway.

A shadowpriest in a healing role is a gimped healer. Ive played both sides, and while they can heal well, they just arent at the same level as a holy priest.

So, rambling done. What you need to be a shadowpriest in an end game guild is not experience, or a guild good enough to know what works. You need a guild that is big enough to have all the bases covered. Sure you can get in the raid if you know a guy who knows the GM. But for standard "this is what we need" list, a shadowpriest will almost never be on there. A SP is a novelty (a very powerful novelty) a large guild can bring on end-game instances, while they are 'playing' in the area.

In the end, you have to decide who you are playing for. Is it better to go into a 4 hour raid as a SP and kill lots of stuff and do 125k+ damage. Or better to go as holy into the same raid and heal for 450k+ damage, keeping everyone else alive. This is how most people probably think. I would love to get back into my shadowform, but there's just not enough benefit to my guild to do so.
#15 Mar 06 2006 at 7:56 PM Rating: Decent
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785 posts
the big IF i guess is that you can really only afford to go shadow if the healing is covered fine. and a lot of guilds struggle to get the quality healing. can probably shadow until MC just fine though.
#16 Mar 07 2006 at 10:52 AM Rating: Decent
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This last is the problem that my guild currently has. We are a relatively new guild (started Oct 05) on Garona server, so the number of 60's available are limited. And the one 60 Priest that we groomed, ditched us as soon as she hit 60 for another guild.

We're currently working on correcting that deficiency, but our highest priest right now is a level 51. And my level 40 priest is the next highest. There are more working their way up, but it's a slow process.

Having said all of that, the priests have been warned that they'll be strictly healers on raids whenever present.

Unless it's something like Gnomer where I was a combo of off-tank/main DPS ... :) Weird group that one.
#17 Mar 07 2006 at 7:40 PM Rating: Decent
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785 posts
i've shadowed through maraudon as main DPS. not quite off tank hehe, my talents include 10 points in the threat reduction ones. i didn't pull much. (didn't use vampiric embrace except on single target pulls :) )
#18 Mar 08 2006 at 2:30 AM Rating: Decent
shadowpriest always waste a place for a real caster / DPS class, sad true go Holy, to even go close in nice DPS you must be hell good geared. And 15 % more dmg from shadow is only an illusion cuz the only class which will use this is Warlock and in raid there are max 4 locks, so its a total waste of a player slot.
#19 Mar 08 2006 at 4:31 AM Rating: Default
get out noobass because clearly you dont understand how much damage a priest/warlock combo can do. level up and post again

Quote:
A shadowpriest in a healing role is a gimped healer. Ive played both sides, and while they can heal well, they just arent at the same level as a holy priest.


another idiotic comment. the holy priest heals only slightly better then a shadow priest. it is the gear however that matters not the spec
#20 Mar 09 2006 at 2:15 AM Rating: Decent
wow, you actually believe holy priests are only marginally better than shadow priests at healing.

Albeit the holy tree is no where near as well thought out as the shadow tree. But to think it does not have any significant thing to offer. wow.

So do you believe every holy priest out there is simply stupid? somehow unable to figure out their talents.

Fact is Holy/Disc or Disc/Holy are far better healers than shadow priests. This is no surprise.

Don't get me wrong. Shadow priests are good healers, but Holy/Disc and Disc/Holy are great healers.

This is why end game raids leaders would rather have a disp/holy or holy/Disp healing over shadow priests.

But back to the OP's question.

As far as being DPSers, I can't believe any one can say shadow priests are not solid. Shadowpriests can really lay into someone and the huge boost they give warlocks is just lovely.

But that does not change one basic problem facing priests in raids. There are generally not enough healers and too many dps'ers. Between warlocks, mages, hunters, and rogues dps is usually covered. With raid leaders so desperate for healers it can be hard to convince them to give up one of their few healers to get yet another dps'er.

If you can get in a guild that will promote your shadow skills, thats fabulous, but sadly that is not the norm.

There is plenty of evidence showing the value of the shadowpriest, especially if you have a lot of warlocks. But that will mean nothing if your Guild does not already have enough healers.

Good Luck at keeping the Shadowform. (I so miss MindFlay)

#21 Mar 09 2006 at 2:55 AM Rating: Default
Quote:
wow, you actually believe holy priests are only marginally better than shadow priests at healing.

Albeit the holy tree is no where near as well thought out as the shadow tree. But to think it does not have any significant thing to offer. wow.

So do you believe every holy priest out there is simply stupid? somehow unable to figure out their talents.

Fact is Holy/Disc or Disc/Holy are far better healers than shadow priests. This is no surprise.

Don't get me wrong. Shadow priests are good healers, but Holy/Disc and Disc/Holy are great healers.

This is why end game raids leaders would rather have a disp/holy or holy/Disp healing over shadow priests


Didn't i just told you spec means crap? it only gives a buff to normal heals by 10% avarage. that is crap if you ask me. especially if you consider it's aplied before coeffcient check

if you want to heal in mc you need to conserve mana meaning you need enough + healing gear (700 is enough) to cast low level spells.

now gtho and dont come back till you have something usefull to post
#22 Mar 09 2006 at 10:38 AM Rating: Decent
Terrorfiend
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Jaigen wrote:
Quote:
wow, you actually believe holy priests are only marginally better than shadow priests at healing.

Albeit the holy tree is no where near as well thought out as the shadow tree. But to think it does not have any significant thing to offer. wow.

So do you believe every holy priest out there is simply stupid? somehow unable to figure out their talents.

Fact is Holy/Disc or Disc/Holy are far better healers than shadow priests. This is no surprise.

Don't get me wrong. Shadow priests are good healers, but Holy/Disc and Disc/Holy are great healers.

This is why end game raids leaders would rather have a disp/holy or holy/Disp healing over shadow priests


Didn't i just told you spec means crap? it only gives a buff to normal heals by 10% avarage. that is crap if you ask me. especially if you consider it's aplied before coeffcient check

if you want to heal in mc you need to conserve mana meaning you need enough + healing gear (700 is enough) to cast low level spells.

now gtho and dont come back till you have something usefull to post



In 1.10 the difference WILL be significant. At this point, meh. But post 1.10 you can bet your *** a holy/disc priest will heal MUCH better.

Take your "noobass" and "gtho" comments to the O boards.
#23 Mar 09 2006 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent
"gtho"? anyone know what that means? just curious.
#24 Mar 09 2006 at 11:49 AM Rating: Decent
Terrorfiend
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Get the hell out.
#25 Mar 09 2006 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
ah, thanks.
#26 Mar 09 2006 at 3:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Didn't i just told you spec means crap?


Becasue baseless ranting and raving is the way to prove something, I belive you, O crap, No I dont. Currently a holy spec heals about 10-15% more and has a effecenty higher than a shadow priest, so they can keep helaing, but untill the next patch, the best healers in the game are not holy or shadow, it is the mana manegment tools of a disc prist that rules as king. Can you heal in MC with no holy points? Yes, and do it well.
Untill the next patch, nothing but flash heal is used in the (Endgame), well heal wize, and beyond that, it is all about sheilds.

Quote:
You hit level 60. Is that the end of your shadow priest?


My outlook, No, but realsiticly it should be the end of shadowform for anybody who is seirous about helping get somethign big done. Lets assume that for a moment you could out dps a rogue with epic gear, and never run OOM, even if you did doubble his dps, you are more helpfull by healing becasue by healing one tank, 3 rogues could be pounding on the mob safely(mostly). Even in my made up world where SP out did rouges it is not advantagous to DPS, when the healing is so needed, this gets a bug in me of why choose a healer class, If your Want is to DPS, Sure we "Melt Faces" but somebody else, "Melts whole bodies.

Defence of the Shadow priest, My warlock runs ZG with a shadowpriest, our group has a hard time holding on to mana eaters(for the bosses) and found it works better when we have one of each(lock for drain mana, priest for mana burn(improved by shadow spec) and a hunter ) and on days when we use a second lock instead of a our shadow priest, my DPS suffers, yes MINE. The shadow powers of our classes just complement each other so well.
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