Death Knights... The Death of Competitive WoW?

Christopher

The following editorial contains views that are the opinion of the author and not necessarily the views of Allakhazam.com

A few days ago, the runner up team in the Korean Extreme Masters World of Warcraft 3v3 Tournament, Kill e A, decided to disqualify themselves from participating in the Global Finals, located in CeBIT. While there have always been self-disqualifications in tournaments that arise from visa issues or lack of funds, Kill e A is not attending the tournament for completely different reasons.  In an official statement from Sang-Yeoi 'miracle' Lee of Kill e A, the team told The Electronic Sports League the following:THIS IS ACTUALLY COUNCIL OF MAGES

"Upon consultation with my teammates, we have regretfully decided that we will have to withdraw our participation from the tournament.
Due to recent balance changes resulting from the 3.0.9 patch, we believe that it is no longer possible for the Mage and Rogue character classes to remain competitive in a high-level PvP setting.

In addition, our testing has shown that it is now impossible for other classes to compete effectively with the Death Knight.

As the Mage and Rogue remain integral to our teams' strategy, and because we do not have a member prepared for competitive play with the Death Knight class, we have decided to withdraw our participation from all competitions for the time being until these imbalance issues are rectified.

Please accept our sincerest apologies."

While Kill e A is the first team in the history of competitive World of Warcraft to abstain from a tournament on the basis of imbalanced game play, it should be noted they are also the second best WoW 3v3 RMP (Rogue / Mage / Priest) team in all of Korea. To achieve second place, Kill e A had to beat out SK.Asia (formerly Council of Mages), the Korean 3v3 RMP team that absolutely dominated last year’s Blizzard WWI 2008 Tournament. In other words, Kill e A is considered to be one of the best World of Warcraft 3v3 teams to run Rogue / Mage / Priest, which means that their choice to opt of a $15,000 cash prize was not an easily made decision.

Other World of Warcraft bloggers, like Vance 'Serennia' Phuoc of SK.USA and one of the top rated Death Knights in North America, have gone so far as to state that "this is potentially the worst arena season [Season 5] to date." Noting that class compositions, like who's playing a Death Knight and who's not playing a Death Knight, haROCK PAPER DEATH KNIGHT ve become far more important than any form of individual skill. Where Season 2 and 3 tournaments had a small amount of diversity in the competition (but only one hunter...), Serennia notes that if you "enter an arena match and see a certain [team] that counters yours or is overall stronger, [you will know] that your team has no chance to win regardless of how well you play or how poorly the opponent plays." He argues, however, that Survival Hunters are 'broken,' and 'overpowered,' noting that for this upcoming tournament, "almost every single comp outside of PMR [Priest / Mage / Rogue] for the arena tournament will most likely include a [Survival] hunter if they want to succeed."

SK-Gaming also hosts a World of Warcraft Arena database that sifts through all of the top arena teams across the world, and sorts their data in a variety of ways. Currently in the world, the 2v2 combination of Holy Paladin and Unholy Death Knight constitutes a whopping 30.9% of the 100 highest rated Arena teams, with Survival Hunter and Restoration Shaman coming up second with 14.4% of the top teams. In 2v2, therefore, Paladin / Death Knight and Hunter / Shaman teams make up almost 50% of the 100 top rated 2v2 teams around.

In 3v3, which is the format for most professional tournament play, the Death Knight class plays in an astonishing 25% of the 100 highest rated WoW 3v3 teams, while Hunters participate in 30% of these teams. Other damage dealing classes, like Mages, Feral Druids, Rogues and Warriors, all have representation below 15% - in fact, most of the classes just listed are under 5% representation in the 100 highest rated teams.

While Blizzard may believe that classes are balanced in terms of overall population, the statistics represented here hint that, when played right, some classes just have a greater advantage over others. The problem, however, comes right back to the nature of competitive gameplay combined with trying to make World of Warcraft equal for all. It's obvious that some classes have to be unique in relation to other classes, there is definitely a problem when there are a grand total of 3 Warriors in the 100 top rated teams (and one of those Warriors is a former champion of previous World of Warcraft tournaments, Rhaegyn), but there are four times as many Hunters and Death Knights milling around. With 3.1 slated to be coming out on PTRs soon, perhaps we might see these changes sooner than later.

Source: SK-Gaming

Christopher "Pwyff" Tom
Editor
ZAM.com

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WRONG
# Dec 14 2010 at 4:25 AM Rating: Decent
10 posts
This one time, at scarlet monastery camp... i killed a 70 mage with a 28 rogue. so uh... yeah. youre all wrong. pro gamer? thats some funny sh!t. PRO GAMER. just the sound of that word and that abbreviation together... brings forth a healthy chuckle from my inner child. lol..... keep deluding "urselves".
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Something for Korea
# Feb 24 2009 at 9:18 AM Rating: Decent
1 post
For Competitive WoW players, they sure know how to cry. Real players would re-think strategies, and start owning again. To "Kill e A" I give this advice: "Less QQ, more pew-pew".
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PvP imbalances
# Feb 23 2009 at 1:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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One of many reasons I canceled. I WISH I could say I've regretted the absence of WoW in my life, but the PvE game has gone stale and easymode and the Arena has never been much more than a bad joke with no punch line. Blizzard refuses to fix their game, so their game isn't worth paying for anymore in my opinion. I left Star Wars Galaxies for the same reason, SOE had their collective heads permanently wedged up their collective fat ass, and the game I'd loved became unplayable. WoW is dangerously close to unplayable for me, which is unfortunate because I've loved it for two versions now. Alas, Wrath for all its bells and whistles killed my interest in the game. Subscription runs out like tomorrow.
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*boggle*
# Feb 23 2009 at 12:20 PM Rating: Decent
10 posts
While I don't disagree this season is seriously imbalanced, it's funny to me because the same sort of thing happens every single year.

How many shaman were in competetive 3v3 teams last year? Or holy paladins? Or ret paladins? RMP has dominated for several seasons, either the top or top 3 comps every time.

DK/Pally/Hunter/Shaman teams shouldn't dominate, but neither should RMP, or WAR/LOCK/DRUID, but that's all I ever see at WWI or Blizzcon etc etc.

People are deluding themselves if they think is a new phenomenon, it's just the first time an old comp has been supplanted as one of the best.

I'll believe comps are balanced when I actually see every comp in the top tourny games.
hahahaha
# Feb 23 2009 at 11:24 AM Rating: Decent
1 post
lol they got scared and bailed
Cry Baby
# Feb 23 2009 at 8:20 AM Rating: Default
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I’m somewhat happy that so many people seem to have the same opinion that I have. Everyone was in love with their Resto-Druid team, or the previous ‘flavors-of-the-month’ but I’m tired of the PVP QQ.

First – they sound like cry-baby whiners who aren’t playing cause it’s not fair… “I’m not playing cause it’s not fair, Boo-hoo…”

Second – They claim to be professionals, but they quit. That’s just not professional.

Third – They claim to be professional, but don’t adapt. When the NFL put the Instant Replay in, it changed things, when they made the ‘Roy-Williams Rule’ (Horse Collar Tackles) it changed things. Freaking adjust! IF DK is OP – you should learn how to play one. IF Paly is OP, then why don’t you have one? (Is anyone else surprised that Wrath, essentially a paladin story, is very paly intense?)

Fourth – They have the same issue that a lot of non-Pros have – “I like X class, but it’s out of favor at the moment” Guess what – If your Rogue has been awesome for years and now they are under-powered – Get used to it. Blizz makes some adjustments. But when you rolled with a Resto-Druid/ANYTHING team, did you do that because Resto’s were just so darn fun? No – they had a functional advantage in the game. People seem to complain that their PREVIOUSLY OP toon – is now not on the top of the structure.

Fifth – IF Bliz didn’t make changes to the PVP arenas and the strengths/weaknesses of the classes/teams then we would have stagnation. If the difference between Season 1 and season 5 was a few years and higher quality gear – things would get old. Think of any other PVP game you’ve played – whether it be Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, James Bond, Halo – There’s a reason they all were popular and all faded over time. (Even Halo needed to have sequels.) Things got old. Change, while sometimes painful, is needed.

Finally – I think that PVP needs to be taken separate from PVE. The two have such different goals and tactics that trying to create harmony between the two is just so hard that any change in one causes a domino effect of changes in the other.
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#Muddawg, Posted: Feb 23 2009 at 6:03 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) End of Story, If none of the other Teams are backing out why are they ?? I know why, Cause they are those little kids that yell at the monitor and throw stuff around their rooms when they get beat like the punks they are. Grow the hell up and stop saying sh*t about Toons being off Balanced. DK's are tough yeah but so are other well geared toons Stop being Big Korean Babies and go COMPETE ! Its what you joined the PVP tournament for anyways. EVERYTHING THEY SAID IN THE INTERVIEW OR WHATEVER IS PATHETIC BACKING OUTPUSSY SH!T !
wtf ? balance issues in wow pvp?
# Feb 23 2009 at 5:04 AM Rating: Decent
21 posts
...have not the forums been covered with this news since the patch before the wotlk release?

Sounds weak to me
# Feb 22 2009 at 9:35 PM Rating: Decent
8 posts
As someone who plays a deathknight, I have had major issues with being kited by mages, and warlocks, and getting stunlocked to complete ineffectiveness by rogues. The issue here is not the abilities that each class has, it's the ability that players have in running their characters. Sounds to me like this Korean team didn't want to lose face by being defeated by better players. They didn't complain too much that mages can strike from ridiculous distances, and they didn't complain that their dps is usually much higher than other players. Blizzard put a lot of research into the mage abilities and determined that they needed to be nerfed "slightly". Now this team quits because they think they can't possibly win? I see DK get beat by different classes all the time, and I see DK's perform pro. They need to stop crying and give it shot. If they lose, they lose because they didn't play as good, not because DK's are invincible.
Sounds weak to me
# Feb 23 2009 at 6:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Guanjunshen wrote:
If they lose, they lose because they didn't play as good, not because DK's are invincible.

Of all the things you could have said in agreement or in argument with this, I'm afraid, "DK's are fine," was about the weakest.

No one's saying DK's are completely incapable of a loss. But at the professional level, there's not all that big of a difference between "invincible" and "too much of an advantage". There is a reason these professional teams shift their characters around every season and we see grossly inflated representation percentages for certain characters at the top of every ladder and tournament. All of the pro players are, more or less, at relatively the same skill level. So if you can't drastically increase your skill level to give yourself an advantage, what else can you do? Well, for one thing, you can start by fielding the best teams composed of the strongest classes at any given time.

Teams like RMP and Druid/Warrior/Warlock were not accidental or coincidental anymore than Unholy DK's or SV Hunters are currently. I'm sorry to have to be the one to break your delusional bubble and welcome you back to reality, but not all of the DK's current popularity is, "Just because people like playing them."
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Major QQ from Korea
# Feb 22 2009 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
15 posts
First, I can't believe professional gamers complained about this and second, I can't believe we think this is actual news.

a) If you are professional gamer, you adapt to the news rules and mechanics of the games. The way this team QQ's about class imbalances is foolish. If you want to be the best, you pick up the classes that are going to offer you the best chance. Every season, mechanics change and some classes will be better than most in relation to others. If you don't change your comp to what you think is competitive, then don't advertise yourself as a professional group and gtfo of gaming and join the masses as casual gamers.

b) I am pretty sure that WoW thinks there are class imbalances and that's why they release patches on a pretty regular basis. The next arena season we will probably see new specs rise to the top. I mean this game evolves from season to season, either adapt or don't. Not changing your comp to be the most competitive is like using an Apple II/e instead of upgrading to the newest technology.

I dont understand the point what this Korean team is making. I am sure Blizzard is going to stop all tournaments until rogues and mages are the top PvP specs once again for them.

Major QQ from Korea
# Feb 22 2009 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good
11 posts
Mergere, I think your comments show a bit of naivety. They aren't crying because the classes are imbalanced, they are crying because the class balance is completely broken. Think about it, if you were a competitor, you have spent an inordinate amount of time perfecting your team balance and tactics, only to have blizzard come out with one class that completely dominates. The competition no long becomes who is the best, but who has the best class. That is everything these tournament stand against.

And yes, blizzard does see classes imbalance, and does try to fix them. However, they have all but completely ignored the DK's being over powered. In most, if not all, of the patches since WotLK, I've seen the Dk's, an already overpowered class, get further buffed up. I love playing a rogue, but it's to the point of why should I bother? I'll run a dungeon with a DK tanking, and I'm getting creamed by him in dps. The sad thing was, I was a 70 rogue, geared for heroics, and the DK tank was in the low 60's doing not only as much dps as I do, but as much as any other heroic 70 dps class. And this wasn't even that good of a player. That scenario has occured (give or take) many times since WotLK has come out.

I knew on the night WotLk came out that DK's were the most overpowered class yet, and unless they start nerfing to bring them back down to earth, they will ruin the game for a good portion of the population. Where is the fun in being last in the dps rankings, not because you don't have the gear or the talent, but because you picked the wrong class?

Done ranting.
Yep yep
# Feb 22 2009 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
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Correct. It's not that you may or may not win. It's that you cannot. Flat out. Adapt to that. They did.
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# Feb 22 2009 at 11:22 AM Rating: Good
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I don't think anyone here really can or wants to argue with their stance on the current WoW arenas. Yes, it's currently very broken and very imbalanced.

However, as many others have been so keen to point out, this is nothing new or unique. Every time a new arena season turns over, the new patches and new gear re-alligns the stars and we get new "top comps". In twos, S1 was Warrior/Holy Pally. Fast forward to S4 and now it's Warrior/Resto Druid. And then in S5 we come full circle with Holy Pallies on top again, just paired with Unholy Death Knights who > Warriors.

Kill e A's move is understandable and fully rational, but that also doesn't stop it from being completely hypocritical. Again, as others have pointed out, they didn't come onto the scene playing RMP when RMP was rolling faces simply because they coincidentally happened to have three team members who enjoyed playing a Rogue, a Mage, and a Priest together.

I hope this will be the trigger that finally forces Blizzard to sit back and take a good long, hard look at the state of arenas and devise a course of action. But at the same time, I still can't help frowning on Kill e A whose press release was basically tantamount to a child throwing a fit.
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"Considering a wide variety of evidential source datasets, both statistical and anecdotal, and taking into account a multitude of weighting and scaling factors (vis. 'Universal Suckage' (Usuc), 'Individual Suckage' (Isuc) and 'Winning Even With Suckage' (WEsuc)), apropos to entity 'Shaman', it can be posited that as Enhance talents (Tenh) approaches 61, probability of breaching 2k Arena bracket (P2k) tends towards zero, parabolically in standard Euclidian phase geometry."
:S
# Feb 22 2009 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
1 post
The majority of you seem to be missing the point, its not that they want to steamroll everyone with their R/M/P combo, its that they dont want to be forced to play Surv hunter/DK just to be competitive in PvP, which, whether you wish to accept it or not, is the case right now.
:S
# Feb 22 2009 at 7:50 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
The majority of you seem to be missing the point, its not that they want to steamroll everyone with their R/M/P combo, its that they dont want to be forced to play Surv hunter/DK just to be competitive in PvP, which, whether you wish to accept it or not, is the case right now.
I think you're missing everyone else's point. The same thing could have been said about non R/M/P teams last season, or hunters and shammy's during pretty much every season, cept maybe this one with hunter's. As most all the posters have noted, every season has had classes/specs that utterly failed.

Anybody that played the classes that I mentioned were forced to reroll if they wanted to be competetive, how is this any different? They are professionals, they should have seen it coming (as pretty much everybody else did) and adapted, instead of quiting which seems hypocritical and of a QQ nature, that's the point most are making.

/sigh
# Feb 22 2009 at 12:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Chuga Chuga Chuga Chuga...Q! Q!
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having been on the bottom....
# Feb 21 2009 at 10:38 PM Rating: Decent
2 posts
During season 3/4 i ran an enhancement/feral team, with about a 50/50 success rate. most of the ones that beat us where healing druid or paladin combos. but oddly enough i still kinda had fun, and i think i did better than most people would have told me i could do. and while it does not surprise me that DK/pally teams do well, it's not gonna stop me from doing what i like. in fact, ill probably have more fun trying to figure out how to function better. grows hair on your chest. BTW, DKs don't phase me that much. it's usually the paladins that get me. but maybe that's just me...
serious?
# Feb 21 2009 at 8:16 PM Rating: Good
1 post
I’m currently in a situation that precludes me being able to arena for a while so I don’t have an intelligent argument as to whether or not the classes are balanced, but if history is any indication then I would have to assume that they are once again. After reading this thread one thing seems to stick out in my head: “If these elites, these professionals, these experts are saying that there is again an imbalance in the arena and that they refuse to play until “imbalance issues are rectified”, then I say “goodbye, good luck, good riddance!” Read above to note that the majority of us feel the same way. The game evolves and in doing so keeps the interest of the group as a whole, and the fact that certain teams **refuse** to play now that the balance has shifted is a testament to Blizzard’s genius. Not because WoW is losing players, but because those elite few are being faced with a simple choice: evolve or die. Blizzard has made it so that the ultimate M/R/P combo just doesn’t work as well anymore. You CANNOT be king of the hill forever with the same exact battle plan. You have to get out of your rut, you have to pick something new and make new arena friends and theory craft all over again. Learn to play, adapt, overcome, and stop crying, or quit and find something that better suits your tastes. By the way, if you want a game to play where the classes are all balanced out perfectly, I recommend one of the Super Mario Brothers games for the NES, or SNES. Mario and Luigi are well balanced and suited for the single button mashing that most of this latest generation of WoW players are looking for.
natural selection at work
# Feb 21 2009 at 2:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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There has never been a strategy and team comp that has dominated every arena season. What ranked highest in S1 didn't do so well in S4. Just becuase a certain strat and comp did really well in previous tournements doesn't guarantee that it will remain just as competitive after the entire balance of the game was changed with WotLK. They argue that it is unbalanced now but when has arena ever been balanced? Every season there has been classes and class trees that were sorely under represented in the top tiers, this will never change. The very fact that RMP teams so prevalent in previous tournaments shows that class choice has always mattered as much as skill.

Quote:
As the Mage and Rogue remain integral to our teams' strategy, and because we do not have a member prepared for competitive play with the Death Knight class, we have decided to withdraw our participation from all competitions for the time being until these imbalance issues are rectified.


They say it themselves that they are unwilling to adapt their strategy or team comp in order to compete. It's natural selection at work. It's never the strong that survive, it's the most adaptable. And so they go the way of the dinosaurs because they were only good enough to compete in a narrow period of WoW and couldn't adapt when everything about the game changed. The only constant is change, if you don't keep up you'll get left behind.
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One other thing...
# Feb 21 2009 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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If you think that this will have ANY bearing on the decision making process at Bliz, you are sadly mistaken.

These guys will still pay their $15 a month to play. So will you. So will I. So will an ever-increasing number of people.

I compare it to the CCG Magic: The Gathering. When Wizards of the Coast said they were pulling one of the yearly Pro Tour events, some pros threatened to quit the game. WotC's attitude was generally "yeah, go ahead, we really don't care." Why? Because, just as with this situation, the "pros" are a small fraction of 1% of the total player base, and it's not a sound business decision to cater to them. If they leave, more people will step forward.

Time has shown that the standard complaints of class "X" being OP does not reduce the monthly subscriptions. Thus, Bliz has no incentive to do anything about it.
One other thing...
# Feb 21 2009 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
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First off, I stand with Kill e A. I do feel that Blizz isn't going to listen or even take notice, sadly. But I think that Kill e A are right. Not that I play DK's. Not that I really pvp (though I play a pvp realm and get involved with it from time to time). I think this summed it up well.
Nimrook wrote
Quote:
There will never ever be perfect balance among the classes. One class will always have an advantage over the others at some point. There will always be one class that people think is overpowered compared to the others. The only way to make every class equal to one another is to give them all every single ability in the game, which of course would mean that there really aren't any classes at all. Anything short of that and there will always be one class that is more powerful than the rest. People need to stop crying and learn to accept that reality. Either that or switch to a game that doesn't have classes.

As far as the DK's specifically. Blizz calls them a hero class for a reason and I'm sure that the reason isn't because they start at level 55. DK's are supposed to be overpowered. If they weren't then that would defeat the purpose of hero classes. Now what I would do if I were Blizz is this. Leave DK's the way they are. Don't nerf them but ban DK's from pro tournaments. Or have two separate tournaments, one without DK's and one where people are only allowed to use DK's.


If you all remember back in the day, yes I'm talking Vanilla, Classes had a roll. There was a distance place for each class. The great triangle or, the power 3 were alive. Tank, Heals and DPS. I believe the problem started when we wanted to take a Priest and have it out dps a Mage. Yes, a lot of the changes they have made are really awesome! I love that a Pally tank can compete with a Warrior. But they should. From the start both classes had tanking built into the talent tree. If you want to dps, YES, you can't play a healer. Each class should have strengths and weaknesses. Ever play a D&D mage that couldn't out damage a Cleric (at the same lvl)? The poor QQ that said I want to play a Pally tank, but be I want to be the best MT should have been ignored. I love my priest and spent all this time lvling it, but can't dps... well then, roll a rogue!!!
Second, this is a Multi Player game. If you don't have the time or don't play well with others then find another game or understand that you will only be able to make it so far in this game. It's not like this game has an ending... and isn’t' going to!!! You’re not going to be able to "finish" WoW. There is always some aspect that you can move forward on, patches being released with new instance and with the goal of a new expansion every year there are no plans of making a grand ending. The QQ on the casual player that can't run a 40 man because they don't have the time, or can't find a group (with queue wait time on servers I know there are people to play with) is whining.

Yes this is a business to make money. Yeah, you can sucker people in and make it really cool for the casual player, but have an average game. We came to play because this was the best game. #1 rated. And if you go by sales, yep. You're there. 11 million people can't be wrong. But the mob is going to play. Make all the classes be able to do the same thing all the time, and you'll have a suck game that makes money. People will stay for a while, but like Kill e A, the ones that have been paying out for 3 years will move on to a quality game. Diablo III isn't far off, and it's a free server. Warhammer 4k was noted for its suck questing (unlike WoW), but rocking PvP system. It's time for a change back to the roots of what made this game great. Diversity. And yes, a Hero class is that. A Hero class. It shouldn't be allowed to compete with normal classes. It also should have been earned. Lvl one from lvl 1. Piss on all those who whined. Yeah you have 18 lvl 70's!! And when WotLK came out I'm sure that with all the actual days logged to get your 18 lvl 70's you can spend the time lvling one more. Is that the way it was? No. Do I play a DK? Nope. Do I pug with them? Nope.

Do I like WoW? Yep. Will I keep paying? Yep. In the end it will go one of two ways. A game that is more defined it what it is doing not for its player but for the game will come out and I'll move to that, or WoW will return to its roots. Let the crying happen. It's going on now anyway. How about having a bunch of cry babies pay to play a great game, instead of a bunch of cry babies pay to play an average game. Either way, with 11 million people you’re going to get a bunch of cry babies. I don't believe that Kill e A are crying. They simply said Blizz has been listing to the tears fall too much and the game has become unbalanced. Of these 11 million people how many know how to write a game, program the code, make a balanced world? Well, with Blizz listing to the mob, I'd say not many. Blizz listened to the mob and we have moved to a game where a priest can out dps a mage. Where the best 5 man is a tank, a healer and 3 mages (who needs Shamans and Rogues?). Where one of the top teams in PvP that has been playing for years can sit back and say "There is no way to win, as the game is fundamentally unbalance", and be right. Fight the fights you have at least chance at winning. Blizz, go back and write a game for the greatness of a game, not for the tears of the weak players who want more than they ever should have had.
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Two separate games. Two separate rules.
# Feb 21 2009 at 10:53 AM Rating: Good
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I hate to say it, but Guild Wars came up with a very nice way of handling this PvP vs PvE balancing issue. Inside arenas PvP skills behave differently. This way they could independently develop skills depending on PvP and PvE. It took them nearly 3 years to come up with it, but it was a godsend. There was much disdain from PvE for the constant nerfs for PvP.

Blizzard could implement a system like this. And to a lesser extent already has with CC abilities limited to 10 seconds with diminish returns.

I'm surprised nobody has suggested this already.

Two separate games. Two separate rules.
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Really?
# Feb 21 2009 at 9:29 AM Rating: Decent
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In other words, we don't think we can win so we're not going to play. Jeez...
Really?
# Feb 23 2009 at 7:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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SearingGeorge wrote:
In other words, we don't think we can win so we're not going to play. Jeez...

The only winning move is not to play.

How about a nice game of chess?

^.^
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SMN 90 | BLM 90 | WHM 83
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It rubs the fewell on its skin or else it gets the thwack again.

Thydonon wrote:
SMN is just epic in it's scope. You gain fame in all cities to have their avatars. When others finish ToAU, they get toys; you get gods.
HERO class
# Feb 21 2009 at 9:00 AM Rating: Decent
3 posts
Maybe "Hero" classes should not be allowed in "professional" or even regular arenas, they limit you on the creation of DK's at least partly because they are intentionally over-powered, so whining about them seems idiotic, as does having to compete against them on an equal footing. Yes, I realize equal footing doesn't really exist.
#hooyaa, Posted: Feb 21 2009 at 8:51 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) What a bunch of cry-baby QQers. I'm sorry your mage/rogue team can't steamroll in easy-mode as before. Cry me a river (and yes, stereotypically, Korean players are crybabies).
BULLL SH#()*#
# Feb 22 2009 at 3:35 AM Rating: Decent
1 post
Um...if frostmage/rogue is easiest what in the world do you consider hardest out of POPULAR matchups. You got to be joking me. Maybe Arcane mage/Rogue pre-nerf bat. Do you have any idea how hard it is to find a good frost mage?
Balanced Classes Are An Oxymoron
# Feb 21 2009 at 8:48 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
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76 posts
There will never ever be perfect balance among the classes. One class will always have an advantage over the others at some point. There will always be one class that people think is overpowered compared to the others. The only way to make every class equal to one another is to give them all every single ability in the game, which of course would mean that there really aren't any classes at all. Anything short of that and there will always be one class that is more powerful than the rest. People need to stop crying and learn to accept that reality. Either that or switch to a game that doesn't have classes.

As far as the DK's specifically. Blizz calls them a hero class for a reason and I'm sure that the reason isn't because they start at level 55. DK's are supposed to be overpowered. If they weren't then that would defeat the purpose of hero classes. Now what I would do if I were Blizz is this. Leave DK's the way they are. Don't nerf them but ban DK's from pro tournaments. Or have two separate tournaments, one without DK's and one where people are only allowed to use DK's.
Also..
# Feb 21 2009 at 8:43 AM Rating: Default
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424 posts
Hopefully Blizz is looking at this and saying, "Wow..we need to get to work guys." and hopefully they will address the issue of lack of content as well with more instances, possibly in a future content patch because right now 3.1 is all we can wait and hope for with Ulduar. I like how they did the MGT and Sunwell content because that was a brand new instance, zone, and raid. As 80's know, at 70 you had more to do than you did from 1-70 in BC and now from 70-80 there isn't much left once you do Naxx and OS. Sure you can pvp, do rep grinds, achievements, etc. But really the next best thing is to make an alt and level it and get dissappointed all over again. Hell I might work on my hunter and stop at 70, do all those old raids and instances before moving to Northrend if this keeps up.
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Life is like a box of chocolates until you ate them you fat bastard!

Main - Viceyl

Pirate: Warding off ninjas since Columbus got lost at sea.
Studs!
# Feb 21 2009 at 8:16 AM Rating: Default
9 posts
You cannot believe how happy that makes me feel. Suck it Bliz
Um...
# Feb 21 2009 at 4:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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8,666 posts
Restoration paladins? Smiley: confused
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Lolz
arena
# Feb 21 2009 at 2:04 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
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101 posts
While I have no doubt that DK's and Ret pallies are OP as of this moment, I still think it's a bit dramatic, and possibly hypocritical. I mean there is a reason that they all ran R/M/P or W/restoD (2v2) during past arena, because they were the best classes in arena, now that it's not those classes people are going to quit? Not to mention when only 1 hunter made it in their stats last year, seems hunters were the only ones who cared, and we were told to quit QQing. Sure now hunters seem over represented, but shouldn't the arena teams resemble the overall class ratios on live realms? and I think there are more hunter's than there are many of the other classes.

Again don't get me wrong, I think wow arena is a joke right now, and have refused to do any arena this go round, but it still seems a bit of the "shoe on the other foot" syndrome.
As I see it
# Feb 21 2009 at 12:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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132 posts
Here's the problem - there are 2 completely different worlds in WoW (PvE and PvP) and each of those are broken down into 3 different sub-sections: PvE has solo play, instances, and raids. PvP has duels, BG's and Arena. Each behaves in a different way. Some might be subtle differences (solo PvE and Instances) and some might be worlds apart (solo PvE and PvP (Arena).

You are not going to see balance for each character amongst all 6 types of competition. Shoring up a toon to be able to run better in PvE (Raids) might make them overpowered in PvP (Arena). Nerfing an ability that is too powerful in PvP down to a functional level might make it totally useless in PvE.

There's no easy solution. The only thing I can think of is have differing versions of skillsets and distribution of talents / points for each type of situation, thus allowing each facet of the game to be balanced out... and that would be a logistical nightmare.

I think the problem in getting Bliz to listen to complaints, though, is an issue that has been going around since the first Diablo game hit the shelf - the constant cries of "(random) class is overpowered" simply because that person is too lazy to figure out how to beat said class.

Just the opinion of one man whacked out of his head on cold drugs...
#Crowtongue, Posted: Feb 21 2009 at 1:47 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yngvie:
As I see it
# Feb 21 2009 at 11:52 AM Rating: Good
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132 posts
Bullsh*t Sunday play? Look, Jackhole, I was agreeing that they might have a point in this case, but (a) due to game mechanics it's hard to maintain a balance between all facets of the game and (b) their statements are lost in the sea of usual complainers. Christ, learn to spell, learn to read, and then get back to me.
Thank you Korea
# Feb 20 2009 at 11:24 PM Rating: Decent
**
424 posts
Thank you Korea for standing up and saying "Blizz you @#%^ed up" in all honesty.
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Life is like a box of chocolates until you ate them you fat bastard!

Main - Viceyl

Pirate: Warding off ninjas since Columbus got lost at sea.
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