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Disenchant option 3.3 a bad thing for enchanters?Follow

#1 Dec 10 2009 at 1:29 PM Rating: Default
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So here I go, I guess some people will call me greedy or what not, but I have a problem with the new disenchant option. Disenchating is how enchanters make 90% of their gold. 100% on my enchanter toons.

So along comes this new feature in groups, roll for DE. That's very nice and dandy if you are not an enchanter, but it really does suck for enchanters. Not like we can go around looking for items to be farmed.

Do enchanters have a daily? No.
Do they have a transmute? No.
Can they farm matts? No. <---------- Some might argue we should use Auctioneer, a valid point (though I don't need an addon for my other proffesions), but seeing as everyone's getting all their greens disenchanted anyhow I can't see it being an option these days either.

**** there isn't even any new enchants for at least a part of the population to make some gold.

In essence, I feel this is the worst turn of events for enchanters possible. Am I missing the point somehow?
#2 Dec 10 2009 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I wouldn't mind as much if it was BoP only gear that had the disenchant option, but green BoE stuff shouldn't.

It simply gives everyone the craft now, and makes dust/essences ridiculously easy to get. Not to mention that if your server happens to have a low population of enchanters, the new LFG system will still kill your profits, as its across realms.
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#3 Dec 10 2009 at 2:23 PM Rating: Decent
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I think this topic deserved another thread.

But fine, dead horse or not, I'll give my 2c.

Quote:

Do enchanters have a daily? No.


I'll use JC as an example. It takes anywhere from 2-5G or so (more on other servers to complete the quest), if you purchase mats. On top of that, you have to go out and get the item, which sometimes involves flying quite far out of your way. That's 10-20 minutes for 5-7G. Hardly something you consider profitable. I can get more than that killing trash mobs below Dalaran for 5 minutes.

Quote:
Do they have a transmute? No.


A. Not all transmutes are profitable. Some are more for convenience.
B. Not every profession needs one, nor should they all have one. It is part of how a certain profession makes their money. Enchanters can make good gold with scrolls. Why you aren't, I don't know. They sell very well on my server, for a good deal more than their mat prices.

Quote:
Can they farm matts? No. <---------- Some might argue we should use Auctioneer, a valid point (though I don't need an addon for my other proffesions), but seeing as everyone's getting all their greens disenchanted anyhow I can't see it being an option these days either.


This is where you are going to get a LOT of heat from other posters, and is one of the biggest reasons some people oppose your idea.

Why?

Because Enchanting is the only profession with a built-in gathering profession. I need mats for JC? I have to go out and look for nodes. I can't run a dungeon for a chance for some Saronite. Furthermore, I now have two professions for the purposes of using one of them.

Enchanters, on the other hand, are free to take a second. Tailoring works well as a stand-alone AND gathering profession (turn Frost Weave drops into items you DE). With the two, you can make a lot of cash and fast.

Furthermore, I'm gonna call BS on this reason for you. Why? Because you just told us that you make 90-100% of your money through DE. The profession is called ENCHANTING not DISENCHANTING. Don't ***** about not having a way to farm mats when you are just selling the mats you get anyway. So sorry others have access to them now.

Quote:

**** there isn't even any new enchants for at least a part of the population to make some gold.

In essence, I feel this is the worst turn of events for enchanters possible. Am I missing the point somehow?


How about the fact that thousands of players on your realm are now actively upgrading gear? How about the fact that some of them are going to be shelling out for better enchants, because this tier is noticeably harder than ToC? How about the fact that only people in groups with Enchanters can do it in the first place (and I've only had the option twice, in about 7-10 groups), so it isn't a huge problem anyway.

Plus, I think there was a huge problem with enchanting and mats in the first place. All other professions needed to take a second to be self-sufficient, which meant that there was always a way to make good money farming and selling mats at the expense of your production ability.

Enchanting, on the other hand, had complete control over those mats (which ARE used by other crafts, too). It wasn't like how you could level skinning and herbalism to sell to other crafters, sacrificing the recipes those crafts made available. They also were free to take a second profession, which (as I said above) could make it far more profitable. And it wasn't difficult, either, if you chose tailoring. Unlike a JC who wanted to level BSing, you didn't HAVE to pay thousands of gold to level it to cap. You were free to go out and get the materials.

Sorry, but it isn't a problem. Mat prices may or may not go down. And I'm not convinced it's a bad thing if they do.
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#4LGarth, Posted: Dec 10 2009 at 2:28 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Classy comment by you btw.
#5 Dec 10 2009 at 2:55 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:

Really? Awesome! I can sell them my enchanting matts! Oh wait ... everyone who was in a group with an enchanter can too! A-A-A-M-A-Z-I-N-G!

Not trying to be mean, but I fail to see how an enchanter gets his profits these days.


I dunno, by selling ENCHANTS.
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#6 Dec 10 2009 at 3:50 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:

Really? Awesome! I can sell them my enchanting matts! Oh wait ... everyone who was in a group with an enchanter can too! A-A-A-M-A-Z-I-N-G!

Not trying to be mean, but I fail to see how an enchanter gets his profits these days.


I dunno, by selling ENCHANTS.


qft.

Every big enchanter spams trade with it

"Your mats, free..tips welcome! My pats, [insert price]"

You get to pick the price.


I like the feature. It means I don't have to pay you, the Disenchanter, your AH price for mats for me to get my Enchants.
And all that gear I win doesn't just get vendored for repair gold.
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#7 Dec 10 2009 at 5:05 PM Rating: Decent
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at first i thought that all the DE on green rolls would be ground breaking price breaker....but its not really. Before the change, no matter what the toon i was on, i would roll on the green, hopefully win, and then mail it to my enchanter to be DE'd. now i just mail the mats not the greens.

for the BoP shards, i can see more of a flux in pricing. smaller flux on BoE since they we mostly already getting DE'd
#8 Dec 10 2009 at 5:34 PM Rating: Default
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So, in essence, it seems from the opinions on this thread that the disenchant option is a bad thing for enchanters and good for non-enchanters.

Oh, and Iddigory, grow a pair. Going personal over a question is pure garbage.
#9 Dec 10 2009 at 9:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
So, in essence, it seems from the opinions on this thread that the disenchant option is a bad thing for enchanters and good for non-enchanters.

Oh, and Iddigory, grow a pair. Going personal over a question is pure garbage.


No, we think it's balance. And your OP was stupid (and I don't even mean that to be offensive).

It isn't our or Blizz's fault if you can't use your profession to make cash (especially when it is fairly profitable without sellling mats).

And I'm not quite sure how I made this PERSONAL? By recommending you USE your profession, rather than just a sub-part of it? By responding to a post that's already been actively discussed in a post not far down this page?

By pointing out the myriad ways you weren't even examining the change and the system?

You came in here butthurt because your easy cash system wasn't as good now (though the prices on my server haven't even changed much). So sorry I wasn't sweet and vehemently cursing Blizzard for a fair change.
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#10 Dec 10 2009 at 11:49 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
I think this topic deserved another thread.

But fine, dead horse or not, I'll give my 2c.


It isn't a dead horse topic at all. The other topic was discussing what we thought would happen when the system went live, and now its actually gone live. To re-start a topic that is already 40ish posts in was much more inappropriate than starting another one.

And really, if you don't like repeating yourself, just don't?

Quote:

I'll use JC as an example. It takes anywhere from 2-5G or so (more on other servers to complete the quest), if you purchase mats. On top of that, you have to go out and get the item, which sometimes involves flying quite far out of your way. That's 10-20 minutes for 5-7G. Hardly something you consider profitable. I can get more than that killing trash mobs below Dalaran for 5 minutes.


You conveniently forgot the price of dragon's eye there Cheech. Its 100G+ for 10 minutes of work, and was still more when WoTLK came out.

Quote:


A. Not all transmutes are profitable. Some are more for convenience.
B. Not every profession needs one, nor should they all have one. It is part of how a certain profession makes their money. Enchanters can make good gold with scrolls. Why you aren't, I don't know. They sell very well on my server, for a good deal more than their mat prices.


A. Of course, the OP mentioned transmutes because he's really not discussing how much more difficult it will be to make gold with 3.3. He was really talking about transmuting for convenience.

Quote:

This is where you are going to get a LOT of heat from other posters, and is one of the biggest reasons some people oppose your idea.

Why?

Because Enchanting is the only profession with a built-in gathering profession. I need mats for JC? I have to go out and look for nodes. I can't run a dungeon for a chance for some Saronite. Furthermore, I now have two professions for the purposes of using one of them.

Enchanters, on the other hand, are free to take a second. Tailoring works well as a stand-alone AND gathering profession (turn Frost Weave drops into items you DE). With the two, you can make a lot of cash and fast.

Furthermore, I'm gonna call BS on this reason for you. Why? Because you just told us that you make 90-100% of your money through DE. The profession is called ENCHANTING not DISENCHANTING. Don't ***** about not having a way to farm mats when you are just selling the mats you get anyway. So sorry others have access to them now.


Tailors can gather for themselves. Its not unique, but they can gather without a secondary profession. Also, its not like you can farm for mats with Enchanting any faster than you could as a non-enchanter, barring quest rewards and gear upgrades.

Quote:

How about the fact that thousands of players on your realm are now actively upgrading gear? How about the fact that some of them are going to be shelling out for better enchants, because this tier is noticeably harder than ToC? How about the fact that only people in groups with Enchanters can do it in the first place (and I've only had the option twice, in about 7-10 groups), so it isn't a huge problem anyway.

Plus, I think there was a huge problem with enchanting and mats in the first place. All other professions needed to take a second to be self-sufficient, which meant that there was always a way to make good money farming and selling mats at the expense of your production ability.

Enchanting, on the other hand, had complete control over those mats (which ARE used by other crafts, too). It wasn't like how you could level skinning and herbalism to sell to other crafters, sacrificing the recipes those crafts made available. They also were free to take a second profession, which (as I said above) could make it far more profitable. And it wasn't difficult, either, if you chose tailoring. Unlike a JC who wanted to level BSing, you didn't HAVE to pay thousands of gold to level it to cap. You were free to go out and get the materials.


The cost to level enchanting is pretty high compared to some other crafts (like alchemy). You act as if greens are free to everyone and are worthless by themselves. Many fetch a pretty penny in the AH, and vendor costs must be considered as opportunity costs as well. Opportunity costs must be considered when leveling the craft. Just because I gathered the dust myself doesn't mean its free. If I use 3k gold worth of dust to level the craft and only receive 1k gold for the enchants I've made, then leveling the craft cost me 2k gold. For a guy who calls the OP stupid, you'd think basic economics wouldn't be that difficult to grasp. I guess your post was just a retarded rant. (and I don't even mean that to be offensive).

The only items a DEer gets to DE over others are quest rewards and gear upgrades, which aren't really the topic of the OP. Nor is the gold from it incredibly substantial when factoring in opportunity costs.
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#11 Dec 11 2009 at 1:04 AM Rating: Default
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That's precisely my point Baveux.

Quote:
And your OP was stupid (and I don't even mean that to be offensive).
This is so funny I won't even consider it offensive. It's like telling someone they suck, just don't take it personal. Hahaha. Grow up (not offensive!)

Enchanting has so far been a profitable profession, but it's going to be a far less profitable one now. On the next level grind, it will again prove a good profession as de quest greens should still yield a higher profit over vendoring them.

Enchating matt prices have remained rather flat on my server despite ICC, which does validate my point to a certain extent, contrary to what happenned in 3.1 and 3.2.
#12 Dec 11 2009 at 1:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

You conveniently forgot the price of dragon's eye there Cheech. Its 100G+ for 10 minutes of work, and was still more when WoTLK came out.


I didn't leave anything out. Most JC will be using their tokens for recipes, and only buying DEs when they need them for themselves or no longer need anymoe. That's a huge time investment (even if you aren't getting them all).

And I tried selling one once to test how it would work. I had to post it 3 times before it sold, and mine was the cheapest I ever saw up. Don't remember if there was a deposit cost on it, but 100G in 7 days isn't anything to brag about.

And, again, it meant getting recipes slower.

Quote:

A. Of course, the OP mentioned transmutes because he's really not discussing how much more difficult it will be to make gold with 3.3. He was really talking about transmuting for convenience.


I say bull. His whole OP was about how this change was a huge blow to his bank account. Daily and mats are both relevant to money-making. If he was arguing that they should get one for convenience (because being able to make enchants for all 8 of your own slots isn't food enough) than he didn't bother to make that point.

Quote:

Tailors can gather for themselves. Its not unique, but they can gather without a secondary profession. Also, its not like you can farm for mats with Enchanting any faster than you could as a non-enchanter, barring quest rewards and gear upgrades.


Tailors gather cloth, which is an item that is still usable by every other class through the first-aid skill. Furthermore, this isn't relevent. Because EVERYONE can gather and sell cloth.

The point is that Enchanters get exclusive rights to their mats, when no other craft does. And they still need the enchanting ones for many of their recipes. If I'm a JC, I need to take mining or buy from a miner to prospect/make jewelry. That's the closest we get, but getting epic gems from other sources (that anyone can use) is cheaper, anyway. Rare gems we have a slight advantage on from our daily CD, but that's still random--you can end up with 15 G from a 40G investement, easily.

Enchanters get their "gathering" skill built in, and no other profession does. They all have to work with the economy. Enchanters got to control theirs for a long time (mat/enchant prices dropping was the fault of enchanters, no one else). Now, they have to engage the economy, like everyone else. They don't get to run a heroic, sell the mats, and get them traded back to make an item +tip anymore. A player actually has more options.

This makes it more equal with other professions. Still not perfect, but the only real option if they aren't going to make DE a separate sub-skill (which they, realistically, should).

Quote:

The cost to level enchanting is pretty high compared to some other crafts (like alchemy). You act as if greens are free to everyone and are worthless by themselves. Many fetch a pretty penny in the AH, and vendor costs must be considered as opportunity costs as well. Opportunity costs must be considered when leveling the craft. Just because I gathered the dust myself doesn't mean its free. If I use 3k gold worth of dust to level the craft and only receive 1k gold for the enchants I've made, then leveling the craft cost me 2k gold. For a guy who calls the OP stupid, you'd think basic economics wouldn't be that difficult to grasp. I guess your post was just a retarded rant. (and I don't even mean that to be offensive).

The only items a DEer gets to DE over others are quest rewards and gear upgrades, which aren't really the topic of the OP. Nor is the gold from it incredibly substantial when factoring in opportunity costs.


The cost is way lower if you compare them to most crafts without the relevant gathering profession (which you HAVE to do if you want to compare them without bias). JC? Have fun when your only way to level up requires Titanium, high-level gems, and Frozen Orbs (not to mention the atrocious treck up). Same with most others. Mats are VERY expensive on the AH when you need a lot, and there is no way to get them without the gathering skill.

Enchanting has their skill built in. And it is VERY cheap to level if you aren't an idiot. Bid, don't buyout, unless the BO is low. You can easily get mats that will bring you up to the top tiers cheaply (and you'll probably make money from leftovers). Plus, you can make some scrolls now, to sell on the AH. They won't be awesome money, no, but it's better than most other professions (minus Inscription) can do while leveling. Especially if you can get something like +4 stats to chest, which sells for 200+G on my server.

Furthermore, every greed roll you won in an instance up till now was high profit or mats for you. For me, that was some vendor gold to cover repairs. I didn't get JC mats, either.

The enchanter could turn a 10G vendor item into a 40G abyss crystal. Were you GUARANTEED it? No, but you could. And the DE option was born of enchanters taking advantage of groups in order to increase their odds for mats. 4 epic drops, top 4 rolls get an abyss crystal? Much better odds to get yourself one when no one could get two epics.

This change is completely fair. If anything, it is a chance for enchanters to increase their profit margins.

A. Stop offering your services for optional tips. If you forced players to buy off AH, they would.
B. Stop dropping enchant prices. It's hard to get them back up due to tipping (this goes with any profession).

Simple. The crafters are to blame for their own lower prices.
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#13 Dec 11 2009 at 3:33 AM Rating: Good
Quote:

Do enchanters have a daily? No.
Do they have a transmute? No.
Can they farm matts? No


Do you have a massive supply of people wanting enchants on their new shinies? YES.

Tuesday evening your market expanded. Everybody is going to be wanting enchants for their new toys, from the casual player to the hardcore raiders.

All you can do is either roll greed or disenchant as well, hope you get lucky, or hit need, leading to the chorus of "wtf's" and the inevitable vote-kick to come. Enchants will still sell for the same price. They may get shards, but they can't enchant it themselves.
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#14 Dec 11 2009 at 6:13 AM Rating: Good
LGarth wrote:
Some might argue we should use Auctioneer, a valid point (though I don't need an addon for my other proffesions), but seeing as everyone's getting all their greens disenchanted anyhow I can't see it being an option these days either.


This is how I make all my cash. I have an AH disenchanter on both the Horde and Alliance on my server. I was concerned that the supply of greens in the AH would be decreased. I have not seen that to be the case. I'm just as busy as always. I am not seeing a decrease in my income.

I'm ok with the change. In fact, I've been disappointed that an enchanter hasn't been in the groups I've been in. I'd like to use the de option too.

Edited, Dec 11th 2009 7:23am by dadanox
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#15 Dec 11 2009 at 7:43 AM Rating: Decent
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I've run 4 LFG randoms (plus I did the 3 new heroics with guildees) so far, and most of the items rolled for have been DE'd. Now I cant say for sure if i'm the only enchanter in the group, but I haven't won one single mat from those runs yet. Because all or most of the items have been DE'd, no loot to sell either.

As an enchanter, it doesn't bother me that I haven't won anything yet, got plenty of mats in the bank, but I wonder why they added this option because it has the potential to ***** the enchanter out of mats. The good thing, at least for people looking for enchants, there's no excuse now, not to have the mats for your enchants when you want it. lol
#16 Dec 11 2009 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:

As an enchanter, it doesn't bother me that I haven't won anything yet, got plenty of mats in the bank, but I wonder why they added this option because it has the potential to ***** the enchanter out of mats. The good thing, at least for people looking for enchants, there's no excuse now, not to have the mats for your enchants when you want it. lol


Not any more than it did before. You still aren't getting items if they win the Greed roll.

It does reduce your chance of an Abyss Crystal per run, but that's it. Everything else remains equal.
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#17 Dec 11 2009 at 12:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory wrote:
Quote:

As an enchanter, it doesn't bother me that I haven't won anything yet, got plenty of mats in the bank, but I wonder why they added this option because it has the potential to ***** the enchanter out of mats. The good thing, at least for people looking for enchants, there's no excuse now, not to have the mats for your enchants when you want it. lol


Not any more than it did before. You still aren't getting items if they win the Greed roll.

It does reduce your chance of an Abyss Crystal per run, but that's it. Everything else remains equal.

And the surplus of dust and essences from all the greens? Not happening. Because those mats were already there, whether it was from the roll winner sending them to a DE alt or from me buying them and converting them.

The enchanting market involving BoE gear is /exactly/ the same as it was before.
#18 Dec 11 2009 at 5:06 PM Rating: Excellent
Enchanters have been double dipping for ages.

Let's assume for a moment that pre-3.3, Joe Blow never had a D/E alt or friends to D/E for him. Let's pretend that for the average player without Enchanting, their only source for mats was the auction house.

Enchanter wins.

Said average player tracks down an enchanter to get their enchant done and tips.

Enchanter wins.

Let's say the player getting the enchant done is a cheap monkey and doesn't tip. Enchanter still wins. He got the gold from the mats.

There still needs to be an enchanter in the group for the D/E function to work. If there's no enchanter in the group (or there is but their skill isn't high enough to D/E the items in question), the D/E function is grayed.

The real question is whether or not this function is creating an increase in the supply of enchanting mats such that it will create a significant drop in prices, and it's too early to tell whether or not that is the case.

My sense, however, is that it's not. Enchanters whining about this feature need to get over themselves and realize they're not the only enchanters on their realm, and that people have been getting their stuff D/E'd outside of dungeons for ages.
#19 Dec 12 2009 at 9:20 AM Rating: Good
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My perspective as someone who is leveling, 435, enchanting; well sort of their perspective.

For the most part I buy mats and get free enchants or just get the whole enchant for free. Before I had my own enchanter I simply sent all my DE stuff to a friend and pretty much got free enchants if he was on. If he wasn't on I would have to buy mats and pay a tip to get enchants but only did it when in a super rush.

Now that I have my own enchanter to do things it makes it easier especially the DE part. If she can't do the chant either a guildie or a friend usually can.

When that isn't an option and I am impatient, I provide mats and pay a good tip. Especially for the chants for BoA gear.

Now at the same time I am JC/LW, max both, with many epic patterns. I do not charge my friends which 95% of the time fall in to the category of people that give me my enchants at no charge if I have mats.

Read the underlined part. I predict that enchanters will just start charging more now.

I know that when my chanter hits 450 and gets fancy patterns that is what she will do. She will not do the tip if want BS, she will simply ask what chant and name a price even if they have mats. If people have an issue they can wait for their personal enchanter friend.

People are impatient. Profit from that.
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#20 Dec 12 2009 at 11:21 AM Rating: Default
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The balance has certainly shifted in my server and Abyss Crystals are selling for 30% less than they were before 3.3 hit. That's 4 days after the release of the patch prices have taken a dive.

As for changes in patterns of conduct regarding getting an enchant ... obviously some stuff has changed on the supply front so you should also expect changes in demand (all those unenchanted alts ... ) or you would think overnight enchanters of the world would unite and raise their fees, but you forget our dear friend John Nash (google it if you are not friends with him yet), which is why I doubt you'll be able to charge high fees for any enchant any time soon. In fact the ones I charge most for are the BC ones, of which I have a few.

Quote:
This change is completely fair. If anything, it is a chance for enchanters to increase their profit margins.

A. Stop offering your services for optional tips. If you forced players to buy off AH, they would.
B. Stop dropping enchant prices. It's hard to get them back up due to tipping (this goes with any profession).

Simple. The crafters are to blame for their own lower prices.


Simple, you are wrong. You have no idea about economics but, hey, keep being ignorant and call others "butthurt" the new elite wordz used in epix threads.

I've spotted a little niche market on my server, so I'm going to see if it's worth it cornering it for a bit, doubt it, but worth a try for fun.

The original point I was trying to make in the thread was not about fairness or unfairness, I was merely pointing out that half of an enchanters "trade" used to come from their monopoly on enchanting matts. The new change is of course welcome for 90% of the wow population, so it might be so that it's a good adjustment. Furthermore Blizzard has been trying to make professions equal in both their (stat) benefits and, to some extent, their gold making potential, though I'd say that at this later they have failed as most crafting professions suck at making gold.

The other big gold maker in my server, JC, is feeling the pinch a little too, for a different reason, after a crazy 3.2, funny that, so I guess we're mostly on the same boat, which is they way it should be I guess.
#21 Dec 12 2009 at 1:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Of course they took an initial dive. After everyone has been running 20 instances a day since Tuesday? But they'll come back up after people start running them less (which is already happening. It takes about 3x as long to get a group on my tank now as it did on Wednesday).

Your post was indignant about the change, and you didn't bother to consider the other side. And you are angry because you have been using what was supposed to be the minor aspect of the profession as if it was the actual one. Blizz never wanted that to happen, and this change is way fairer (realistically). Even if it means lowering the gold potential of the profession (which is higher than most others without DE, by the way--Scrolls sell VERY well on most servers).

The change is fair. Actually, I'd say it isn't QUITE fair (the enchanter still has most of the power), but it's better than nothing.

Quote:
A. Stop offering your services for optional tips. If you forced players to buy off AH, they would.
B. Stop dropping enchant prices. It's hard to get them back up due to tipping (this goes with any profession).


95% of the enchants that happen in the marketplace on my server go through the AH. Generally speaking, you make more profit if the player buys the scroll than if they tip you (or else they would have just bought the scroll). It's rare to see a player shout for an enchanter--it only really happens if the AH ran out of a popular scroll.

And the second one is just fact. To be fair, neither of these "you" comments were about YOU. They were about enchanters in general. Constantly undercutting each other causes the price to plummet, and it is very hard to raise it. Enchanters, as the only ones with access to enchants, are the ones responsible. Basic math, here. Now, is it likely you could get everyone who just keeps undercutting to stop? No. But that doesn't make statement untrue.

Plus, WoW economics is VERY different than RL economics (and it is stupid to pretend you are that much better off if you've studied it extensively, anyway. It's such an inexact science).

You're a crafting profession. Now you have to craft to make money. That's the way it should be.

DEing was never meant to be a money-maker. It was meant to supply the items you needed to make and sell an enchant. Players decided they wanted to use it a different way, contrary to what Blizz wanted. We all knew they didn't like it when they released scrolls.

You get what you paid for. Be happy you were able to ***** players out of Gold for something they needed for so long.
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#22 Dec 12 2009 at 7:09 PM Rating: Default
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Just let go Iddigory. Wow economy follows the same principle as real world economy when left to its own: supply and demand. You seem not to understand it, which is why you suggest trying to form a cartel or the such (look it up, google is your friend).

Quote:
Be happy you were able to ***** players out of Gold for something they needed for so long.


Right here, fundamental lack of understanding of it. Let me explain it to you, I think it's necessary. To be able to "*****" players, one player needs to have a firm enough hold of the market. That is, to control a large enough part of the supply (or demand, but that's not the case at all ehre) side of the market. A single player can not do that in MOST scenarios, rather sees a market, tries to make a profit out of it, usually (gross generalization) by going a little bit lower than the lowest tender for equal goods, which brings the price closer to the "fair market value" of said service or product.

You, however, suggest that somehow enchanters should modify their conduct in order to exert a higher price for their enchants, which is both, unrealistic and the very deffinition of "S·C·R·E·W·I·N·G" players. Good God, such a beautiful contradiction.

Will there be a change in the economy? One is already happenning. How will that pan out? Enchanting was THE proffesion in TBC, and has been a rather profitable one until 3.3, with current changes, I should think the supply side of matts will go down in the form of there being less enchanters due to some people switching to other, more profitable or more "exciting" proffesions.



Edited, Dec 12th 2009 8:34pm by LGarth
#23 Dec 13 2009 at 9:16 PM Rating: Excellent
idiggory wrote:
Of course they took an initial dive. After everyone has been running 20 instances a day since Tuesday? But they'll come back up after people start running them less (which is already happening. It takes about 3x as long to get a group on my tank now as it did on Wednesday).


Ya...now instead of 0.5 seconds on my pally, now it takes 1.5 seconds D: But you're right...supply of enchanting mats is up because the number of heroics being run is off the charts right now. 2 weeks ago, most people were running the daily heroic for their two EoT and that was it. Even non-raiders were mostly maxed out on EoC gear, so they took what they needed and then went and did other things.

Now you've got raiders bumping their 232 set epics to 245, non-raiders bumping their 226s to 232s, and alts upon alts upon ALTS spamming heroics for emblems just because. (Interesting slightly-related note...if you've got a level 70-79 alt and run the random WotLK dungeon, your first one every day gets you two EoT...my mage and hunter will probably have one or two T9 pieces in the bank waiting for them for when they hit 80. Talk about getting geared for heroics......)

That is the source of the supply, not the fact that enchanters don't have to hang out after the run and D/E things now.

To suggest otherwise is just ignorant. And I mean that. If there's no enchanter in the group, the enchanting materials don't just hop into peoples' bags out of nowhere. If there is an enchanter in the group, the only reason there might be extra mats coming into the economy would be from those groups getting stuff D/E'd with an enchanter in the group who would normally not D/E because he/she is a greedy douche that figures they're helping their own market by refusing to D/E thus keeping the supply artificially low.

And to those greedy douches out there, I mock you.

And if you're not a greedy douche, guess what? Nothing new is coming into the economy as a result of this feature compared to you doing it at the end of the run and handing out the goodies.

So just get over it. It's here to stay, and I love it. And when my hunter starts doing Northrend dungeons a bit more often, she'll love it too, because it's an effortless way for people in the party to get the mats I would have otherwise been happy to give them if I wasn't so lazy.

Being lazy, by the way, is still better than being a douche. Especially with this new system.
#24 Dec 15 2009 at 12:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Conversely, chanters still only need one profession to level chanting, meaning that they can easily pick up mining or herbalism or skinning to farm gold with.

Personally, as someone with a chanter toon, I'm lovin this - got a crap load of mats gathered on my other toons that I never would have gotten without this as well as saving me the time of mailing the greens back to my chanter and having to DE them.

I do agree that we got ripped as far as not having a daily and not having all that much in the way of new options for LK though - my mage just dinged 80 and I discovered just how sucky a spread of chants I really had to buff her gear with.
#25 Dec 15 2009 at 1:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I do agree that we got ripped as far as not having a daily and not having all that much in the way of new options for LK though - my mage just dinged 80 and I discovered just how sucky a spread of chants I really had to buff her gear with.


But the fact remains that you WILL be buffing her regardless. Every single person that raids, or PvPs somewhat seriously, and the vast majority that do heroics and PvP less seriously will be buying an enchant for their cloaks, chest, bracers, hands, boots, weapons (minus DKs), and shields. These enchants need to be replaced every time you upgrade and, like gems, some will be replaced once gear makes up for them. That's 6-7 slots that every single somewhat serious player in the game will fill.

You also have a few "ranks" to offer, with cheap to expensive options.

Learning the number to place on the AH and at what price will be good. Certain enchants sell fast, other's don't. Think about what gear players upgrade most often (hint: not feet) and stock accordingly.

And, as far as stat bonuses go, enchanting isn't any worse than most others, basically, with their ring enchants.

I mean, you could be a leather worker. No one buys the lower-ilvl gear anymore, since other stuff is easily available for cheap with emblems. You basically are just selling leg armors. Same thing with tailors and BSs. You'll have some enhancement items that you can AH, but most of your stuff is extremely expensive to make and sells very, very slowly. And you need to get lucky to get the good recipes in the first place.

Yeah. Berserking may take 10 Abyss Crystals. But a Titansteel Destroyer takes 8 Titansteel bars, 800-1K, 15G, and 2 Frozen Orbs for 60G. It sells for about 1.2K, and will take forever to go. That's a **** of a lot harder to get, and way more expensive. And it is one of BS's better items, before you start needing Crusader's Orbs. You can sell the Berserking scroll for profit easily, if the server isn't inundated.

(And if you are smart, you have been. Ret Paladins grabbing Quel'Delar WILL be buying them, among other classes).

The TTSD is gonna sit in the AH for a while.
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#26 Dec 15 2009 at 1:06 PM Rating: Good
LGarth wrote:
So here I go, I guess some people will call me greedy or what not, but I have a problem with the new disenchant option. Disenchating is how enchanters make 90% of their gold. 100% on my enchanter toons.

while I agree with you that this is how enchanters make gold, I'll still tell you that you are wrong. 100% wrong.

If I had to rely on drops from grouping, I'd be a very poor disenchanter. Anyone who thinks that there are more greens in dungeon drops than in the AH is delusional. Anyone who thinks "all your unwanted greens, blues, and purples belong to me" is megamaniacal and should be removed from the group post-haste.

LGarth wrote:
Not trying to be mean, but I fail to see how an enchanter gets his profits these days.

If you can't find items to disenchant at a profit other than by going into instances, you haven't been doing it right. If you don't know how to get cheap stuff from the AH, then you are stupid. I was trying to find a different, less confrontational word to describe your position, but I couldn't. "stupid" it is.

Edited, Dec 15th 2009 7:00pm by ohmikeghod
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